The Political Thread

[COMMANDO FORCES]

Well done DDD, I can now relax as my mission here is done 

[Peter Wolf]

Someone who is on PAYE cannot dodge paying income tax and its those on PAYE who are the largest net contributor of income tax.

Halliburton who supply the US military amongst other things moved their headquarters offshore to avoid taxation and since the US military are funded by taxpayers then Halliburton are funded by taxpayers and Halliburton make billions and dont pay taxes.Thats just one example of the corporate sector who dont pay taxes but the same applies to the majority of them.

Does the Bank Of England pay taxes ?

No.

[Dandontdare]

Well done DDD, I can now relax as my mission here is done 

Oh no, I've given succour to a fascist running dog of the military industrial complex.

I hang my head in shame!   

[COMMANDO FORCES]

Tharg where is this bloody like button 

[Matt Timson]

Just look at Lord Kinnock and his family HYPOCRITE'S
Blair HYPOCRITE
Brown HYPOCRITE
Prescott HYPOCRITE

Maggot traitor trough feeding parasites and sellouts and theives and  whores.

Why did you have to mention the Kinnocks ??

Fucking losers who cant even stand up straight without assistance from the taxpayer.Kinnock is a useless buffoon and always will be and an embarressment to the Welsh who was so useless he couldnt even win an election against the unpopular Thatcher so the Kinnocks were packed off to the EU where they could ride the EU gravy train and have their snouts in the trough to the tune of 8 million quid a year.
Fake Lord Kinnock.They claimed to despise heriditary peers and titles so they kick them out and claim the titles.Thats a typical example of their kind of hypocrisy but they dont recognise it as they are mentally defective.

Peter, you've peaked.  You can retire on that post as far as I'm concerned.

[The Legendary Shark]

It was meant as humour as in what a taxi driver might say about it.

I thought it must be something like that as you have a much deeper understanding of things like the geopolitical agenda and Frankfurt School subversion tactics than most people. I did have to respond to the "hang them" comment, though - just as I'd have responded to a taxi driver.

If the system encourages some people to dodge taxes and also allows them to do so then it's the system that must die, not the human beings who take advantage of it. Rich or poor, high or low, we are all trapped in this hideous system together.

No, I'm not having that. It's about CHOICE (a word that both this and the last governemnet abuse on a daily basis - but that's another argument). A rich man can choose to pay full taxes or move his assets offshore. A low paid worker doesn't have that choice. To say it's not their fault beacuse the system encourages them to dodge tax is like saying it's not the fault of poor people if they turn into muggers, everyone has a personal choice whether to behave decently or like a selfish cnut.

You're absolutely right that it's about choice, but that doesn't mitigate the role of a system that pushes people into making selfish choices.

For example, let's imagine that there is a 50% inheritance tax in whatever country. A struggling young family's parent dies, leaving them a modest estate of, say, £200,000. The government immediately wants half of this in taxes. Now, let's say that before the parent dies the family is advised by a lawyer on a perfectly legal way to avoid inheritance taxes altogether - the parent sells the entire estate to the child for £1 before death sets in. It's all perfectly legal and above board but not many people know about this "loophole" because it is used mainly by substantial landowners (lords, barons, billionaires etc.) and costs the government money. Is it wrong for the ordinary family to make such a deal or should they "do the right thing" and pay the tax?

This is the kind of thing I mean when I say the system should die, not the people trapped in it. Of course, anyone who raids the company pension fund should be prosecuted. In my opinion, the criteria for deciding on which people should be punished for taking advantage of the system and which people should not is simple: Was harm, loss or damage caused to others? In the case of loopholing your way out of inheritance tax I'd say no punishment, but in the case of the pension raider I'd say otherwise.

[Robin Low]

Oh if only that were true Robin. My mother-in-law was a Senior Staff Nurse and my wife works up at the Hospital now in the drug rehab part of it and I was in the forces and the stories of waste we could all talk about.

Obviously all these stories released under the freedom of information act are just lies and there is no waste what so ever in the public sector.

I still wait for the day that a left leaning person might admit to there being waste and the ability to save money in the public sector but I fear that day will never come.

Perhaps you'd like to explain to me then how our Trust was able to save the required 30 million pounds last year and deal with an increase in work if it's so wasteful. Or how my mother saved £100,000 by renogotiating contracts with medical suppliers. Or how about the 90+ hours of unpaid time my girlfriend is currently owed but never likely to see (and keep in mind she doesn't record anything under 30 minutes). We can all play the anecdote game, but the proof is in the reality of the incredible range and depth of effective public services that are provided 24 hours a day, seven days a week across the whole of this country.

I don't doubt you can find examples of waste and bad practice in the public sector, but prove to me that it's worse than in the private sector. Whether you accept it or not, the public sector is required to make savings every year, while at the same time implementing a constant stream of changes to services. And you know what, it does it pretty well given the demands and expectations that are placed on it.

As for Freedom of Information requests, did you actually read the information provided and put it into an appropriate context, or did you just listen to a summary provided by an organisation with a hostile political agenda? Hell, you could make an FoI and discover that my department goes through an awful lot of boxes of tissues every week. No doubt the Taxpayers Alliance would ask why the British Taxpayer should have to pay for people to blow their noses, gleefully ignoring the fact we use tissues to clean forceps and draw across waterbaths so that we don't get cross-contamination between different patients' specimens.

Regards

Robin

[Peter Wolf]

Just look at Lord Kinnock and his family HYPOCRITE'S
Blair HYPOCRITE
Brown HYPOCRITE
Prescott HYPOCRITE

Maggot traitor trough feeding parasites and sellouts and theives and  whores.

Why did you have to mention the Kinnocks ??

Fucking losers who cant even stand up straight without assistance from the taxpayer.Kinnock is a useless buffoon and always will be and an embarressment to the Welsh who was so useless he couldnt even win an election against the unpopular Thatcher so the Kinnocks were packed off to the EU where they could ride the EU gravy train and have their snouts in the trough to the tune of 8 million quid a year.
Fake Lord Kinnock.They claimed to despise heriditary peers and titles so they kick them out and claim the titles.Thats a typical example of their kind of hypocrisy but they dont recognise it as they are mentally defective.

Peter, you've peaked.  You can retire on that post as far as I'm concerned.

I never expected that at all but thanks all the same and i am pleased that you found it funny.I have been making an effort not to rant in these threads anymore and to tone down the language as a rule but not when i typed that .

[vzzbux]

I would love to put something in about monies which someone close to me manages which is encouraged to stretch by the local council but wont (I am sure even this site is monitored). At least all money goes to the right places and is distributed wisely.





V

[Peter Wolf]

You're absolutely right that it's about choice, but that doesn't mitigate the role of a system that pushes people into making selfish choices.

For example, let's imagine that there is a 50% inheritance tax in whatever country. A struggling young family's parent dies, leaving them a modest estate of, say, £200,000. The government immediately wants half of this in taxes. Now, let's say that before the parent dies the family is advised by a lawyer on a perfectly legal way to avoid inheritance taxes altogether - the parent sells the entire estate to the child for £1 before death sets in. It's all perfectly legal and above board but not many people know about this "loophole" because it is used mainly by substantial landowners (lords, barons, billionaires etc.) and costs the government money. Is it wrong for the ordinary family to make such a deal or should they "do the right thing" and pay the tax?

I dont think anyone should pay inheritence tax as i think its immoral and unfair and excessive as anyone who dies who has presumably worked and paid taxes already not to mention all the other indirect taxes should not pay tax on their estate particularly these days when the older generation who are now retired are getting virtually no returns on their cash that is in the bank resulting in them eating into their savings if they have any.My family will not be paying any inheritance taxes thats for sure and when my father was working he was paying the top rate of tax back then when cash had value unlike now so really F inheritance tax.There are plenty who always did the right thing all their lives only to realise later that the system is runned by parasites and criminals.They would take everything off you if they had their way.

Paying it is giving the parasites who own the banking system more cash on top of their reputed 750 trillion in cash and assets so again F that.Its not selfish as its all about survival especially in this day and age.

If anyone disagrees then there really isnt anything i can do to change that.

Going back to the bankers etc they have stolen trillions off taxpayers and unless they go down which they should then future generations will be paying for their criminality and greed and fraud as they have stolen their futures in more ways than one so everything has changed now and unless this problem is addressed then there is every justification for not paying taxes if at all possible.Look at the tax bill f.or overseas invasions on top of that and i copuld continue but i wont.

Personally i dont object to direct or indirect taxes or to paying into a socialised welfare/health system but i strongly object to the present criminal system and always will do unless it ends.


Paying taxes pays for bombing Libyans but i realise that not paying taxes is something that works to the detriment of others so its a difficult situation to reconcile in  some ways but presently the taxpayer is used and abused and exploited to the max especially since we have ZERO say in wethyer we want our taxes spent on bombing Libyans and bailing out too big to fails or being given to the EU to spend on what they like.

[Emperor]

Petitions are going up to stop Murdoch being given all of BSkyB:

www.avaaz.org/en/murdoch_messages_2/?cl=1144931266&v=9510
www.38degrees.org.uk/page/m/74c0580a/2d463aae/597b9f02/4674cc03/959045652/VEsH/

Might be useful:

http://tabloid-watch.blogspot.com/

[Dandontdare]

since signing up to one of these, I get regular emails from David Babbs at 38 degrees. I had to laugh today because now that I'm using Thunderbird to access my emails, they are always preceded by a banner that says THIS E-MAIL MAY BE A SCAM. 

But we don't need to have any concerns about Rupe taking over - they've imposed "safeguards" to ensure impartiality. Phew, I was worried for a moment there!

[The Legendary Shark]

Safeguards = secrecy?

[Something Fishy]

It's a done deal and it's a bloody disgrace.  More sleazy bastard Tories.  Shocking to think Cameron intervened to stop Wade being fired.

Personal friends and he has got himself involved in this disgusting hacking situation.

Having got Murdochs help to get power Cam has no choice but to allow it really I guess.

[Zarjazzer]

I wonder if lots of other newspapers are looking on with a hint of dread. i suspect many may have been "at it". As for M the Tories will crawl to this free market cheerleader,(who I believe sold his nationality for tax reasons)  and then he'll have cart blanche to launch an attack on his real target for destruction -the BBC.

How dare  a public broadcaster exist denying monies rightfully belonging to News International shareholders? Our democracy is a rich mans joke.

Sign that petition!