The Political Thread

[Spikes]

There are many other examples of English identity from our countryside to our engineers, architects and poets, cathedrals and curry houses, to name but a few

Glad you didnt name Shakespeare, always best to keep that trump card in reserve. 

Surely a indepenent Scotland would have automatic EU and NATO membership? The question of needing to re-apply doesnt make sense - or am i missing summat?

That's the assumption that was made, but elements in the UK parties keep saying that neither membership would be automatic. Just a wee bit politically motivated there, I think.

There's a new scare story every few days: "An independent Scotland would never survive because..." It's actually kind of funny because such stories - which amount to patting us on the head and shaking a finger at us - just drive more people to join the SNP. I'd much rather there was an intelligent debate about it.

Well im certainly no expert - but i would have thought if Scotland had to re-apply, for whatever reason, then so would England-Wales-Northern Ireland?
My logic being that the UK that signed up for these things, constituted Four nations. and with Scotland gone, then the UK that would be left, would not be the same UK that signed up - hence; we'd all need to re-apply?
But i doubt this issue would ever arise really.

[Old Tankie]

No, I really am an old Tankie.  Badger Sqn, 2nd Royal Tank Regiment.

[Trout]

Jack: Yeah, and I seriously doubt that it's a major concern for most people who are keen to see Scotland independent, anyway. It's obvious to anyone with a bit of intelligence that there are plenty of international opportunities for a new country. There are a lot of details to be worked out - the negotiations will take years, I understand - so there are plenty of issues like this that will need to be resolved, if people do vote for independence.

[JayzusB.Christ]

For a long time, I've been under the impression that Old Tankie was that mohawked punk DJ lady.  Who was that then?

That was Lara, who had a username themed on Tank Girl. She's still doing her thing but can be found on Twitter instead of here.

That's the one, it was the Tank bit that threw me.  And there I was last month thinking I was debating the pros and cons of monarchy with a leather-clad punk chick - what would Johnny and Sid have thought?

No, I really am an old Tankie.  Badger Sqn, 2nd Royal Tank Regiment.

Yeah, I seem to remember now.  Isn't there another military lad on the board too?  There used to be a copper, Jimbob, but he's drifted away

[the 'artist' formerly known as Slips]

Possibly but they are more linked with Scotland..... We have things in common a shared heritage all of us on these isles, of course there are things that we share.  But there are also things which come from one side or the other, doesnt make them better.   

Maybe Im making this point badly, I dont know.  The only thing I find is that I cant seem to seperate Englishness from Britishness, and Ive lived here for over 15 years.   Im just looking for that Eureka moment, the one that says there it is.  Though Ill concede that Shakespeare is quintessentially English, he was before the union was formed though!   

There might not be any more, that may be my own niavity.

[Old Tankie]

I'm all for that re-applying to the EU, Jack, hopefully they'd turn us down.  No need to name Shakespeare, Jack, the whole world knows he's ours.

JB - you've just referred to me as a "lad" - you've made my day!!!  Unfortunately, I haven't been a lad for many a year, but we can all dream.  Thank you, sir.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Any time! 

[Satanist]

Regarding Glasgow – We have spent most of the time hating each other so don't take it personally Mrs Slips, theres an old joke that on the flights here they ask you to set your watch back 50 years.

I don't know anyone here who would say they hate the English, English football pundits on the other hand are a bunch of sneering cunts!

I think the whole anti English/Irish/Scots/Welsh thing is so last gen, We have a whole host of Eastern Europeans to blame for all our ills now. That's progress.

[M.I.K.]

Re : national identity...

The whole clan tartan thing is a load of guff, constructed in the mid nineteenth century to appeal to English tourists after Sir Walter Scott decided to Scottishify the hell out of everything for a visit by King George IV, thus starting a craze. Prior to that, the different tartans were linked to specific regions.

None of that kind of thing seems very 'genuine' to me, and personally I'm more inclined to regard Scottish culture as stuff like Oor Wullie and The Broons (originally illustrated by an Englishman), Glen Michael's Cartoon Cavalcade, (English bloke), and Irn Bru (Scottish but also produced in England).

[Spikes]

I'm all for that re-applying to the EU, Jack, hopefully they'd turn us down.

^ There ya go Slips - good old fashioned English intransigence Humour.

Maybe Im making this point badly, I dont know.  The only thing I find is that I cant seem to seperate Englishness from Britishness, and Ive lived here for over 15 years.

Ive lived here for 44 and i still cant put me finger on it. Its all very vague and dreamy. Still, we muddle on 

[the 'artist' formerly known as Slips]

Regarding Glasgow – We have spent most of the time hating each other so don't take it personally Mrs Slips, theres an old joke that on the flights here they ask you to set your watch back 50 years.

I don't know anyone here who would say they hate the English, English football pundits on the other hand are a bunch of sneering cunts!

I think the whole anti English/Irish/Scots/Welsh thing is so last gen, We have a whole host of Eastern Europeans to blame for all our ills now. That's progress.

Im from Greenock/Largs.  Believe you me we can get a whole load more backward than 50 years Satanist!  The only place worse is Paisley (old football predjudices showing though)

[Old Tankie]

Re : national identity...

The whole clan tartan thing is a load of guff, constructed in the mid nineteenth century to appeal to English tourists after Sir Walter Scott decided to Scottishify the hell out of everything for a visit by King George IV, thus starting a craze. Prior to that, the different tartans were linked to specific regions.

None of that kind of thing seems very 'genuine' to me, and personally I'm more inclined to regard Scottish culture as stuff like Oor Wullie and The Broons (originally illustrated by an Englishman), Glen Michael's Cartoon Cavalcade, (English bloke), and Irn Bru (Scottish but also produced in England).

Brilliant post, says it all really.  Perhaps we should all identify with one another, but from completely different countries.  And, yeah, Jack, you've got it, our humour.  Wicked!!  That sets us apart!  (And our sarcasm!)

[Trout]

Re : national identity...

The whole clan tartan thing is a load of guff, constructed in the mid nineteenth century to appeal to English tourists after Sir Walter Scott decided to Scottishify the hell out of everything for a visit by King George IV, thus starting a craze. Prior to that, the different tartans were linked to specific regions.

None of that kind of thing seems very 'genuine' to me, and personally I'm more inclined to regard Scottish culture as stuff like Oor Wullie and The Broons (originally illustrated by an Englishman), Glen Michael's Cartoon Cavalcade, (English bloke), and Irn Bru (Scottish but also produced in England).

The idea is to look forward, not back. Kilts and tartan and all those other cliched things have their place, but they aren't the sum total of Scotland. Also, who said anybody needs to define their country?

(Cartoon Cavalcade wasn't shown across all of Scotland, by the way.)

[Noisybast]

[Satanist]

our humour.  Wicked!!  That sets us apart!  (And our sarcasm!)

That's right! England has Michael McIntyre, Scotland has Frankie Boyle. 

If you want identity then why not return to the stereotypes of old...

England - Arrogant Racists who still think they have an empire
Irish - Thick
Scots - Violent penny pinching Alcoholics
Welsh - Good at singing about Leeks and in dire need of vowels

It's all a nonsense


Oh and Cartoon Cavalcade was shite, cheap cartoons and a creepy lamp? Worse than the poll tax!