The Political Thread

[Strontium Claw]

I could tell you why Carter is an anti-semite in my own words, but you would just say I'm a right-wing bigot (the last defense of an exhausted argument from libs), I could link to a web page that explains Carter's deep-rooted hatred for the Jewish state in specific detail, but you would just denounce it as right-wing propaganda.

You do realise that it's possible to dislike the actions of the Israeli state (or disagree with its existence full stop) without disliking the people in it?

In a sort of, you know... hate the sin, love the sinner kind of thing 

[JOE SOAP]

I could tell you why Carter is an anti-semite in my own words, but you would just say I'm a right-wing bigot (the last defense of an exhausted argument from libs)

You do realise that it's possible to dislike the actions of the Israeli state (or disagree with its existence full stop) without disliking the people in it?

In a sort of, you know... hate the sin, love the sinner kind of thing 

You may be an exhausted liberal, allegedly.

I could link to a web page that explains Carter's deep-rooted hatred for the Jewish state in specific detail, but you would just denounce it as right-wing propaganda.

You've done much the same thing when anyone's linked to something that's counterpoint to what you believe or agree with, which one is true?


I doubt any of us have the monopoly on truth.

[JOE SOAP]

I could tell you why Carter is an anti-semite in my own words, but ,you would just say I'm a right-wing bigot (the last defense of an exhausted argument from libs), I could link to a web page that explains Carter's deep-rooted hatred for the Jewish state in specific detail, but you would just denounce it as right-wing propaganda.

The irony. In the same sentence you accuse others of making blanket 'right-wing' generalisations yet you then proceed with a blanket 'liberal' generalisation?

You're better than that Mr. Beaks.

[Richmond Clements]

You're better than that Mr. Beaks.

You got a link to any evidence of that?

[Emperor]

Ah politics, it brings out the best in us all doesn't it?

Anyway back to sortition...

I stumbled across this link but the site was down at the time, it is now back and it gives a nice overview of the debate over the years and some gems:

There was a striking moment for me in going to give evidence to the Royal Commission, I found myself in a lift with 'Lord' Douglas Hurd who was one of its luminaries. He commented on how extraordinary it was that when the Commission had gone round the country to hear from the public at every occasion someone had stood up and suggested that the Lords be selected like a jury from members of the public. It was clear that he regarded the notion as bizarre, evidence that the public was slightly mad and could not be trusted.

www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/max-atkinson/sortition-wont-lie-down-blueprint-for-truly-representative-house-of-lords

Because your average person on the street can't be expected to understand complicated issues which have serious implications for life and liberty, because they'd need to understand a large amount of detailed evidence. Despite the fact this is something that happens routinely throughout the country all the time. Oh and, you know, the system having been already deployed in the real world where it has proved to be effective and popular. 

Of course, as the comments say there - why not cut out the middle man and have sortition for the House of Commons? The simple answer is that the politicians would never stand for it so it will never happen this side of and it does seem to currently act as a brake on some of the less desirable policies (like bringing back capital punishment, although we might also get the decriminalisation of cannabis so...).

[TordelBack]

If there is a God, he should strike down people who punctuate badly.

Render unto Trouty the things that are Trouty's.

[Frank]

Ah politics, it brings out the best in us all doesn't it? Anyway back to sortition...
... why not cut out the middle man and have sortition for the House of Commons? The simple answer is that the politicians would never stand for it so it will never happen this side of and it does seem to currently act as a brake on some of the less desirable policies (like bringing back capital punishment, although we might also get the decriminalisation of cannabis so...).

Capital punishment and immigration seem two of the most obvious instances where the great unwashed would let their worst instincts rule their heads under sortition. I think it'd probably lead to a very speedy process of everyone GROWING THE FUCK UP and realising that it's easier to whine about shit than to take decisions that have massive repercussions.

[judgefloyd]

So what's sortition? I'm guessing it's to do with either Ireland or the House of Lords.

[JOE SOAP]

Election by lottery (chance).


http://www.imprint.co.uk/books/9781845401375.html

[Emperor]

Ah politics, it brings out the best in us all doesn't it? Anyway back to sortition...
... why not cut out the middle man and have sortition for the House of Commons? The simple answer is that the politicians would never stand for it so it will never happen this side of and it does seem to currently act as a brake on some of the less desirable policies (like bringing back capital punishment, although we might also get the decriminalisation of cannabis so...).

Capital punishment and immigration seem two of the most obvious instances where the great unwashed would let their worst instincts rule their heads under sortition. I think it'd probably lead to a very speedy process of everyone GROWING THE FUCK UP and realising that it's easier to whine about shit than to take decisions that have massive repercussions.

As long as we can give the Murdoch (and tabloid) press a kick in the collective papery balls to stop their cheap thrill, scaremongering that tends to distort the debate away from the general British take on things, which tends to be more inclusive and tolerant than you'd believe from looking at newspapers run by billionaire owners not shy about pushing their own agendas onto people.

But yes growing up seems to be the thing and that tends to happen when people get more responsibilities, rather than relying on someone else to make all the decisions for them. We'll see.

[Professor Bear]

If there is a God, he should strike down people who punctuate badly.

If there is a God, he would forgive them.

[The Legendary Shark]

I am God.
You are God.
We are all God.
God is us.

Now get back to work.

[U.S.S.R]

Left is right and right is wrong. See, politics isn't so complicated!

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Taxes

[Beaky Smoochies]

You seriously have never heard of John Stott? Beaky he probably was the most prominent British evangelical of the last 50 years.

Sorry if I was somewhat clumsy in how I phrased that, prodigal dude, of course I've heard of John Stott, what Christian hasn't, don't agree with him on everything (Israel notwithstanding) - annihilation theory, for one thing - but he seemed a thoroughly decent and honorable gentleman, the same, however, cannot be said for Sizer, who I hold with utter contempt, and I know I shouldn't - hate the sin and love the sinner, as others have pointed out here, Christ was sinless, I'm not - but there ye go...