The Political Thread

[TordelBack]

Profit from luxuries by all means but not from money, social housing, basic foodstuffs, water, basic energy, social benefits, public transport, justice or healthcare and suchlike.

See?  Perfectly sensible position, even if you might not agree with it (I do).  These are things that could be fought for, but doing it from outside a political/societal set-up is effectively impossible.

The pesudo-cited Thoreau was able to pretend to remove himself from society in his hermitage at Walden, but only because he was buffered from hardship by wealth and connections: Emerson owned the land he lived on, and his musings on the 'home economy' of his new life (which only lasted two years) don't take account of the countless things he drew from his place in a wider society that was not bound by his essentialist project: he was as bound to the status quo of the world he stepped away from as anyone.  He's a great thinker and writer, and many of his ideas are fascinating and truly admirable, but ultimately he was just another rich tourist in the lifestyle he espoused.  That's not an option that many of us have.

[Frank]

The site of Thoreau's rural isolation was also just a short walk from the nearest town, which is, like, a metaphor or something.

[The Legendary Shark]

I admit I haven't read much Thoreau, just a handful of essays, and although I wasn't aware of what Tordels knows I did suspect something along those lines. The thing is, I don't want to be removed from society, to live apart from everyone else - I love being a part of this country. Well, mostly anyway - even though it might not seem like it sometimes.
.
I think I've said before that I've realised that I can't change the world - I can only change my world. There are no politicians or parties or organisations that represent my position and so my only option is to represent myself, stand up for myself and do the best that I can with the limited resources, knowledge and intelligence available to me.
.
Furthermore, I'm not a leader and nor do I want to be - but that doesn't mean that I want to be led, either. I'm perfectly capable of leading myself, as are the vast majority of people, I think. Maybe that means that I want the best of both worlds but then, who doesn't? There's no point having cake if you can't eat it (unless you own a cake shop, I suppose).

[TordelBack]

The thing is, I don't want to be removed from society, to live apart from everyone else - I love being a part of this country.

Apologies, didn't mean to insinuate that at all - for 'society' I suppose I meant 'a system whose present state I reject', rather than co-existence with one's fellows.  Thoreau wasn't advocating isolation, but rather the simple life (apart from the odd sumptuous dinner party at Emerson's).

(The most telling thing for me is that the Walden area's biggest claims to fame prior to Thoreau's adoption of it as independent rural idyll was an 18th century massacre of Native American women and children, and the very first action of what would become the US army at North Bridge, Concord at the start of the Revolution (uncoincidently made famous by Emerson's poem as the 'shot heard round the world').  The very simplicity he found in those woods was possible only because of systematic genocide and communal sacrifice under arms at that very location).

(Lest folk mistake me for the kind of person who hungrily read Thoreau as part of the self-education of the young idealist, I recently only discovered him through Kim Stanley Robinson's 'Climate Disaster' SF trilogy which features a character obsessed with his environmental message, and then went on to read Walden, which was surprisingly heavy going but I really enjoyed it).

[The Legendary Shark]

No need to apologise, Tordels, I didn't think you were insinuating anything of the sort. I simply wanted to distance myself from Thoreau's own isolationism. I don't believe that anyone can change their role in society by isolating themselves from it. I think that's like trying to disprove Einstein's General Theory of Relativity by pretending it doesn't exist.
.
Indeed, if it wasn't for my society and its history I wouldn't be in any position to imagine, and strive for, something better. There are a great many good things about our society - not least among them the availability of writings by authors of all flavours. I haven't read any Walden (what would you recommend?) but I have the sneaking suspicion that I'd enjoy John Wagner more! (I'm really quite low brow at heart, to be honest.)
.
Speaking of recommendations, I'd appreciate any suggestions for authors I should read to deepen my understanding of the things I blather on about. There are a lot of clever, well-read people who contribute to this thread (and intimidate me with their understanding and well-readness) and I am always prepared to learn from intelligent, educated people like yourselves. One day, I hope to be intelligent and well-read myself... Gonna' take a long time, though!

[Hoagy]

tbbh. It is is disgusting when one member of society deems another member of society unfit for society on the basis that that person has questioned society in the way he has. It is supremacist pure and simple.

[Trout]

I'm now only reading the parts about cake.

[TordelBack]

I'm now only reading the parts about cake.

Safer than the parts about biscuits.

[Trout]

tbbh. It is is disgusting when one member of society deems another member of society unfit for society on the basis that that person has questioned society in the way he has. It is supremacist pure and simple.

Hang on, who's supremacist?

And what do you mean by "supremacist"?

[The Legendary Shark]

Just hold on for one cotton-pickin' moment...
.
There's cake?

[Grugz]

supreme cake!

[Professor Bear]

The cake is a lie.

[Proudhuff]

The pesudo-cited Mary Berry was able to pretend to remove herself from her kitchen in her hermitage at Walden, but only because she was buffered from hardship by wealth and connections:  Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall owned the land he lived on, and his musings on the 'home economy' of his new cake (which only lasted two minutes) don't take account of the countless ingredients he drew from a wider society that was not bound by his Sponge cake project: he was as bound to the status quo of the world he stepped away from as anyone.  He's a great **nker and writer, and many of his ideas are fascinating and truly admirable, but ultimately he was just another rich black forest gateau in the display cabinet of life.  That's not an option that many of us have when it comes to cake based choices.

[TordelBack]

The pesudo-cited Mary Berry was able to pretend to remove herself from her kitchen in her hermitage at Walden, but only because she was buffered from hardship by wealth and connections:  Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall owned the land he lived on, and his musings on the 'home economy' of his new cake (which only lasted two minutes) don't take account of the countless ingredients he drew from a wider society that was not bound by his Sponge cake project: he was as bound to the status quo of the world he stepped away from as anyone.  He's a great **nker and writer, and many of his ideas are fascinating and truly admirable, but ultimately he was just another rich black forest gateau in the display cabinet of life.  That's not an option that many of us have when it comes to cake based choices.

Crumbs!

[Professor Bear]

Africa minister Mark Simmonds resigns because Ebola happened on his watch: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/11/tory-foreign-office-minister-quits-intolerable-expenses-rules

Okay, that's not true, but my idea makes as much sense as the reason he actually gave with a straight face.  Between him and his wife, he pulls down 104 thousand pounds of taxpayer money and this is not enough, so he quit the job - like I say, the Ebola thing at least makes a kind of sense.  If there are any jobseekers on the board, I think it should be mandatory that you apply for this vacant position.