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General Chat => Film & TV => : Andy Lambert 07 October, 2018, 08:13:12 PM

: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 07 October, 2018, 08:13:12 PM
Let's have your thoughts and chat on the latest episodes then....
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: The Monarch 07 October, 2018, 08:18:05 PM
It was pretty darn good wish i had more constructive stuff tp say but i don't sorry
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Dark Jimbo 07 October, 2018, 08:26:49 PM
Haven't seen an episode since Capaldi's first series, but I really liked that on the whole, despite my scepticism. It didn't really 'matter' that the Doctor was a woman - it was still very much the Doctor, in every way that mattered.

Lots of lovely hark backs to the old series-style of doing things - a reasonably high body count that keeps stakes raised (no glib RTD-style 'Everybody lives!' nonsense); the accidental bringing along of companions, a very old-school end credit sequence. Bit dissapointed that the Screwdriver came back though, it felt for a moment like they were about to write it out at last.

Only really watched out of idle curiosity, but... I think I'm on board for the whole series.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 07 October, 2018, 08:27:59 PM
Suitably enjoyable start to a new era - not perfect, but it had a lot to juggle with with all the new ingredients, but there's certainly a lot of promise there.
Jodie IS the Doctor - she absolutely felt like that's our Time Lord we've always known. Okay, she was perhaps a little  manic, but cut her some slack, like all actors playing the Doctor, they usually take a few stories to find their feet. I honestly think shell be just fine. The regulars were engaging enough and I'm looking forward to seeing how they settle in.
Pretty impressed by the guest cast for the coming episodes. Never would've imagined seeing Chris Noth in Doctor Who..!

Yeah, thumbs up from me - totally confident in Jodie and looking forward to what's ahead.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 07 October, 2018, 08:30:05 PM
Kudos on the new style of incidental music and superb special effects! 👍👍👍
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 07 October, 2018, 08:32:13 PM
Thought it was great, really enjoyed it.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 07 October, 2018, 08:36:39 PM
It was solid with added Sheffield.

Pretty typical of first stories for new Doctors they tend to be easier stories to allow room for characters to be introduced. And therefore the fact that the characters where decent is pretty good. We all need time to settle in to all the new stuff but that was a fine start.

Glad to be back on board.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: DrRocka 07 October, 2018, 08:37:35 PM
Loved it, great fun, and Jodie absolutely nailed it!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 07 October, 2018, 08:43:25 PM
Thoughts on tonight's Doctor Who (Spoiler warning):

The new theme tune is absolutely brilliant. I think Delia Derbyshire would have approved of it, and she didn't approve of most of them.

Several of the plot beats were very clearly telegraphed - such as Grace's death and Karl being the focus of the threat - but that's not necessarily a problem for an opening episode. The plot is generally subsidiary to the character work in a first episode, and that was all very well handled. There were plenty of signs of promise for the series going forward, though I remain somewhat hesitant regarding Chris Chibnall being the man in charge. Still, I'm optimistic at the moment.

Jodie Whittaker's performance was extremely assured and displayed nothing which would led me to believe she will be anything other than a huge success in the role. The Doctor's change of gender was generally underplayed, and quite rightly in my opinion. If you can change your body then it stands to reason that changing genders would be no big deal.

Some of the press reports have reported the 13th Doctor as being dark and brooding in her portrayal. There was nothing like that on display here, though you can never judge a Doctor based on their regeneration story; if that were the case we'd all still think of Sylvester McCoy as having been a prat-falling buffoon.

It's about time the Doctor bought a new outfit from a charity shop; makes a change from stealing them from hospitals at any rate. Strangely, though, I thought she really suited Peter Capaldi's outfit, and could have seen her wearing that had it not already been established as the Twelfth Doctor's outfit. I did really enjoy the almost Colin Baker-era reaction of the companion to her new outfit - You're not wearing that.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mattofthespurs 07 October, 2018, 08:44:24 PM
Brillaint. Absolutely top class. Loved it. Accepted Jodie as the Doctor inside a minute.

Really, really good.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mattofthespurs 07 October, 2018, 08:45:10 PM

The new theme tune is absolutely brilliant.

Not wrong there. Took me back. First class.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: abelardsnazz 07 October, 2018, 08:46:49 PM
I thought it was a great opener, Jodie was brilliant with the right level of eccentricity, humour and confusion for a new Doctor, plus there was plenty of pathos and Chris Chibnall clearly isn't afraid of not shying away from death. Looking forward to the rest of the series very much on the basis of this episode.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Eamonn Clarke 07 October, 2018, 08:56:46 PM
Loved it.
It’s a Whovian thing to look for little nods back to last Doctors and I liked the harking back to Patrick Troughton’s lines about the memories of his family in Tomb of the Cybermen.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 07 October, 2018, 09:04:29 PM
As folks have said the music is uniformly GREAT. The new theme, when we finally got there is classic in the extreme AND no more Murray Gold one of the consisitantly bad things even when the previous stuff was dead good. Though my wife did comment that the incident music was straight from 'Who want to be a Millionaire'... which did rather break the spell a little!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Richard 07 October, 2018, 09:04:50 PM
Am I the only one who thought it was crap? The Dr can go anywhere in the whole of time and space, and her first adventure is in England in the present day? That's bollocks!

Then in the end credits (I like the new music) there's a long list of actors almost none of whom I've ever heard of. They used to have loads of famous actors, now it's Lee Mack and Art Malik and the rest are a bunch of children. Has their budget been cut?

Jodie W was good though. Like watching David Tennant again.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 07 October, 2018, 09:13:58 PM
Am I the only one who thought it was crap? The Dr can go anywhere in the whole of time and space, and her first adventure is in England in the present day? That's bollocks!

This is hardly unheard of: besides, the drunk bloke clearly said it was a month before Halloween, so this could very well have been set a couple of weeks ago and not the present day. :P
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mattofthespurs 07 October, 2018, 09:21:29 PM
Am I the only one who thought it was crap? The Dr can go anywhere in the whole of time and space, and her first adventure is in England in the present day? That's bollocks!


No TARDIS. Stranded...Pertwee? I'll leave this here.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Richard 07 October, 2018, 09:22:58 PM
I'm not saying it's the first time it's ever happened. I'm just saying it's not good enough.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 07 October, 2018, 09:34:26 PM
You could actually hear the dialogue. The music wasn’t some half-arsed tribute to bombastic 1990s cinematic scores. All. The. Time. (Hurrah, Segun Akinola!)

Bar that one piece of utterly unnecessary fridging, I thought it hit the spot.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Leigh S 07 October, 2018, 09:41:35 PM
Yeah, the incidental music was actually incidental, hurrah! New theme tune sounds good, though the extended version at the end felt a bit clunkily taped together - Jodie and Bradley were great.  Acting wise it was all good, though the chap playing Ryan seemed oddly flat at times of peril and his accent seemed to be more Brummie than Sheffield (or was that just the flatness!)?

The only glaring plot oddness was the DNA bombs - if they were designed to kill witnesses, why not just kill them on the spot?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 07 October, 2018, 09:43:55 PM
I had no problem with the setting. Sheffield was sufficiently different enough from Cardiff pretending to be London, and I couldn't help but feel Blackcastle was only down the road, where the 4th Doctor encountered the Meep so very long ago...
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: rogue69 07 October, 2018, 10:02:50 PM
I am a traditionalist Doctor Who fan and I don’t care if this makes me politically incorrect but I will never accept a Doctor Who with Bradley Walsh in it.  :lol: :lol: :lol:
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 07 October, 2018, 10:24:32 PM
Music was the standout bit for me - it was mostly good (except when doing the Who Wants to Be A Millionaire theme), and it was mostly unbtrusive and at a volume which meant I could hear the dialogue.  In fact there was relatively little shouting too.  Dr Who threads the internet over are filled with me requesting this very thing, so only fair I give it the thumbs up!

Favourite sequence was the Doctor* McGyvering her screwdriver.

Least favourite was the bit where Yaz killed everyone by toppling the crane. No, wait,  that was should have happened given the way she was swinging those controls around. Well,  it wouldn't be a Dr Who thread with some stupid nitpick.


*There,  that wasn't so hard now,  was it?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy B 07 October, 2018, 11:32:06 PM
I'm not saying it's the first time it's ever happened. I'm just saying it's not good enough.

It’s standard practice when they’re trying to attract an audience of normal people. At least it wasn’t London. And I’m impressed we’re getting an alien planet as soon as next week: Christopher Eccleston, for example, never made it out of Earth orbit.

Damn - BBC America went out of their way to ruin that. Advertised as a ‘global simulcast’, then loaded it with adverts. And no credits! I still haven’t heard the new theme.

But as far as I could tell from the fragments, it was pretty good! Likeable cast, and Jodie Whittaker is perfect.

My only criticism is, I was expecting something more different from what has gone before; a really new style. But it wasn’t: very similar to previous plot-lite season openers. But maybe that was just an unrealistic expectation. Looking forward to seeing where they take it.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Funt Solo 08 October, 2018, 12:18:08 AM
Am I the only one who thought it was crap? The Dr can go anywhere in the whole of time and space, and her first adventure is in England in the present day? That's bollocks!

An odd complaint.  Of the 12 other new doctor episodes on offer, 11 of them are set on Earth (and 6 of those around the present day of their respective eras).  So, if it's bollocks, it's always been bollocks.  It's okay to just not like Doctor Who as a premise.

... there's a long list of actors almost none of whom I've ever heard of...

Does one need recognizable actors to make something good?  (Rhetorical: I already know the answer.)

: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Richard 08 October, 2018, 01:05:00 AM
No, it doesn't have to have recognisable actors to be good, it just concerns me that they used to have them and now (for the most part) they don't. It suggests the BBC doesn't care about the show as much as they used to. I hope I'm wrong.

I do like Dr Who; if I didn't I wouldn't care enough to come in here and say what I think about it. It doesn't matter to me how many times a previous new doctor has had their first episode on Earth, just because they've made the same mistake 11 times before doesn't mean it's the right thing to do this time. You can go to any planet you can imagine, at any time ever, and you go to England in 2018? Fuck that. I can watch Eastenders for that.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Funt Solo 08 October, 2018, 01:27:56 AM
I just don't see how recognizable actors can be either a measure of inherent quality or a measure of how much the production company cares about the production.  I would say the quality of the actors would be the measure in both cases.  Example: Attack the Block.

And I don't buy your Eastenders argument either.  Unless you can point me to the Easties episode where weird murderous aliens crack out of space-eggs and a flying electric spaghetti monster plants a DNA bomb in Dot Cotton's neck.

Anyway: loads of great British sci-fi is set on Earth.  This makes it easy to relate to and easier to produce.  I'm not sure which is the major factor, but it doesn't make them either inherently rubbish or like a contemporary soap opera.  Look, a list:

Humans
Black Mirror
Misfits
The Prisoner
The Quatermass Experiment
Day of the Triffids
The Tripods
War of the Worlds
Sapphire & Steel

Also, setting things off-planet doesn't make them good.  (See Survivors or Hyperdrive.  Or don't.)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy B 08 October, 2018, 03:25:31 AM
just because they've made the same mistake 11 times before doesn't mean it's the right thing to do this time

To be fair, they haven’t made that ‘mistake’ 11 times. Occasionally, they did it right, and we got ‘The Twin Dilemma’ and ‘Time and the Rani’
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Fungus 08 October, 2018, 03:43:59 AM
Poor. As a non-fan my opinion may not matter at all...
Jodie Whittaker is fine but the obvious dialogue and mannerisms weren't great.
Fell asleep halfway through. Some alien pulsing blue thing was a threat but was dispatched somehow.

It's fine. You're either a fan and liked it or it's just another telly show.
The early Eccleston episodes were worthwhile, since then I periodically give Dr Who a go but it's not for me.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Jim_Campbell 08 October, 2018, 03:49:34 AM
“Man watches series he doesn’t enjoy. Doesn’t enjoy it. Film at eleven.”
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: ABCwarBOT 08 October, 2018, 07:53:19 AM
People might not be surprised to hear I thought it er... wasn't very good.   Pretty much as I expected.  Gender politics masquerading as Dr Who full of naff dialogue "ooh I was a white old Scotsman only half an hour ago" and she says "sore instead of saw which seems very popular these days.   Whitaker also sounded as if she'd inhaled helium or something with her squeaky voice.

Really crappy monster who looked like he'd had ice thrown over him and some poor attempts at emotion.  Oh and just about all the men were shown as a bit cowardly and the women as clever and brave.  Utter forgettable tosh.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: GordonR 08 October, 2018, 08:34:54 AM
That was very entertaining.

Especially if you imagined ABCwarBOT’s peeved little face as he sat there watching it with his pre-prepared checklist of things to complain about, desperately sucking on his weak lemon drink every time a woman or POC appeared on screen.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 08 October, 2018, 08:39:46 AM
My only criticism is, I was expecting something more different from what has gone before; a really new style.
It wasn't a full overhaul, no, but there were some big changes from Moffat-era Who: the new characters were actually people, and not cyphers designed to become puzzles; it was about a group rather than an all-domineering figure who can basically be a god; and the dramatic build-up was smartly done, in a manner Who had become very poor at. For me, it was solid rather than amazing, but, importantly, I felt it was promising for what would happen next.

[stuff]
Your prejudices are showing. Frankly, if you thought that was "gender politics", you have problems. There were scant few references to gender in that – more throwaway lines that the production itself used to essentially say: "This isn't actually that important". As for the lines bout being Scotsman, that's basically identical to what the Doctor has done after a bunch of previous regenerations. And, yes, women have higher-pitched voices than men, although most people's favourite new-Who Doctor did the squeaky gurning thing for a ton of time and that never seemed to bother anyone else. Then again, he had a penis.

I guess people will see what they want to see, as ever. Mind you, anyone saying they didn't find that monster horrific when he took off his mask needs a healthy dose of objectivity.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 08 October, 2018, 08:52:47 AM
Some alien pulsing blue thing was a threat but was dispatched somehow.

It was electrocuted,  twice.  They built some cabling kit to do it in Fox Mulder's garage,  used Step-Grandad's bus driver underground to locate it the first time and incapacitate it so the Dr could implant the DNA bombs, and then Nana died zapping it on the crane the second time. 

It was a whole big thing,  not really "dispatched somehow", which implies an off-screen hand-wave, rather than about half the plot. Dislike it all you want,  but be fair!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 08 October, 2018, 09:08:48 AM
And, yes, women have higher-pitched voices than men, although most people's favourite new-Who Doctor did the squeaky gurning thing for a ton of time and that never seemed to bother anyone else. Then again, he had a penis.

Did he,  though?  Do any Timelords have penises?  I don't recall seeing one,  so it's unlikely genital configurations were that important to the series thus far. Hmmm.

I can't quite believe I'm reading the "women are shrill" trope in 2018, but that's this shitty timeline for you. If I've seen one shibboleth that defines male prejudice in the workplace, it's this fixation on higher-pitched voices: it's used to shut women's contributions down in meetings,  it's used to imply women are "becoming emotional", it's used to imply immaturity and weakness. And it's balls. If you don't enjoy women's (vastly diverse) voices,  then I reckon you just don't like women.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 08 October, 2018, 10:16:49 AM
Did he,  though?
I'm reasonably sure that the actor did, yes. I don't know about the actual Time Lord. For all we know, 'male' Time Lords don't have a cock and 'female' ones have three. Man, I really want to be true now, just to fuck with the haters.

If I've seen one shibboleth that defines male prejudice in the workplace, it's this fixation on higher-pitched voices: it's used to shut women's contributions down in meetings,  it's used to imply women are "becoming emotional", it's used to imply immaturity and weakness. And it's balls. If you don't enjoy women's (vastly diverse) voices,  then I reckon you just don't like women.
Quite. I recall recently reading about a university study into meetings and estimations about time. Everyone overestimated the amount of time women spoke, often significantly, and that included the feminist creator of the study, who seemingly felt like shit because of this. In short, if women speak for over about 25 per cent of the time, men think they've dominated. See also things like appearances in movies/crowd scenes/etc.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: dweezil2 08 October, 2018, 10:21:32 AM
I just don't see how recognizable actors can be either a measure of inherent quality or a measure of how much the production company cares about the production.  I would say the quality of the actors would be the measure in both cases.  Example: Attack the Block.

And I don't buy your Eastenders argument either.  Unless you can point me to the Easties episode where weird murderous aliens crack out of space-eggs and a flying electric spaghetti monster plants a DNA bomb in Dot Cotton's neck.

Anyway: loads of great British sci-fi is set on Earth.  This makes it easy to relate to and easier to produce.  I'm not sure which is the major factor, but it doesn't make them either inherently rubbish or like a contemporary soap opera.  Look, a list:

Humans
Black Mirror
Misfits
The Prisoner
The Quatermass Experiment
Day of the Triffids
The Tripods
War of the Worlds
Sapphire & Steel

Also, setting things off-planet doesn't make them good.  (See Survivors or Hyperdrive.  Or don't.)



I quite liked the odd episode of Hyperdrive!

Still back to Who.

The plot reminded me of my recent disappointment with The Predator.

Still, the new theme tune is good, assuming they'll be using the same one for the titles as they did on the end credits.

I'll need to see more before I can make my mind up, but the writing wasn't great on this one.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 08 October, 2018, 12:45:01 PM
People might not be surprised to hear I thought it er... wasn't very good.   Pretty much as I expected.  Gender politics masquerading as Dr Who

Sorry, but this is just patent nonsense. As I said in my first post on this thread, one of the things I really liked about this episode was how few mentions were made of the fact that the Doctor had changed genders, making for a clear signifier that this wasn't a big deal.

If I remember rightly, the only mentions of the Doctor's  change of gender amounted to her initial surprise at being referred to as madam whilst on the train, and admitting that she hadn't shopped for women's clothes in a long time when in the charity shop.

'I used to be a white haired Scotsman' is a line anyone playing the part would likely have been given, whether they were male, female, or otherwise.


: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 08 October, 2018, 12:50:55 PM
I can honestly say the only bit that annoyed me was when The Doctor said 'would of' (one of my mum's pet hates so it's always really noticeable to me).
Other than that it was a quality production - the plot was solid and easy to follow, the characers were engaging, the performances were all very good, lovely music and a very cool cliffhanger.
And a genuine 'lol' at 'eat my salad'.

Oh, and she didn't say 'I was a white old Scotsman', she said 'I was a white haired old Scotsman'. What's wrong with that? it's just a way of acknowledging the transformation/regeneration.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Funt Solo 08 October, 2018, 01:05:36 PM
Gender politics masquerading as Dr Who ... Whitaker also sounded as if she'd inhaled helium or something with her squeaky voice.

Misogynism: check.

just about all the men were shown as a bit cowardly and the women as clever and brave

Playing the victim: check.

Congratulations!  You've just been naturally selected for a free scholarship to the Jordan Peterson Institute for Male Domination of the Species.  Prior to your initiation day, please binge watch Strike Back (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strike_Back_(TV_series)).  (Scholarship dependent on demonstration of deep, commanding voice and ability to do one-handed Rocky push-ups.)

---

Her voice was normal.  I thought the bloke in the basement was pretty brave when he faced off against the thing from the egg.  I would have wet my pants and (if my legs would have played along) you wouldn't have seen me for dust.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 08 October, 2018, 01:13:24 PM
Also, Ryan has dyspraxia - a developmental co-ordination disorder, yet he still managed to scale up a very high crane.
Seems pretty brave to me.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 08 October, 2018, 01:49:27 PM
I can honestly say the only bit that annoyed me was when The Doctor said 'would of' ...

Hah, forgot that bit!  Nearly had me hiding behind the couch.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: M.I.K. 08 October, 2018, 03:13:17 PM
I can honestly say the only bit that annoyed me was when The Doctor said 'would of' ...

Hah, forgot that bit!  Nearly had me hiding behind the couch.

Thirded.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 08 October, 2018, 03:29:44 PM
Dammit. Now as a grammar pedant, writer and editor I'm duty bound to hate the new series. AND IT WAS GOING SO WELL.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 08 October, 2018, 03:38:19 PM
And to think this started out as an educational programme!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tiplodocus 08 October, 2018, 04:25:18 PM
But that's how people speak.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 08 October, 2018, 04:58:56 PM
This is true. Hmm. So as long as the comics don't state "could of" and the Doctor doesn't herself write it down in that form, this would be acceptable. I CAN CARRY ON WATCHING AGAIN.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: M.I.K. 08 October, 2018, 05:47:51 PM
No. It's "could've". I will never, NEVER accept "could of".  Completely nicking my early '80s childhood fashion sense is one thing, but this where I draw the line, goddamnit! Soddin' Gallifreyans... coming doon here in their stolen polisboxes, telling folk what to do...
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Eamonn Clarke 08 October, 2018, 07:06:27 PM
Apart from Tim Shaw there were four main male characters including Rahul, the bereaved brother.
All of them did brave things, if anything you could argue they did scary things when they were scared which seems like the definition of courage to me.

I thought everybody was great and all in different ways.

And Jodie just is the Doctor.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Richard 08 October, 2018, 07:19:33 PM
In fairness, she's from Gallifrey so English isn't her first language. Also she couldn't even remember her own name at the time, so remembering English grammar was a tall order.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tjm86 08 October, 2018, 07:25:28 PM
I'll need to see more before I can make my mind up, but the writing wasn't great on this one.

Aye, it's always hard to judge on the first post regeneration episode.  More and more now there needs to be the hamming up to emphasise the change then things settle a bit.  I don't recall that so much back in the day.  Ecclestone managed to avoid that particular pratfall but then again the rest of his season would not have been out of place on the deli counter in Tesco's (for me, anyway).

It were nowt adventurous in terms of scripting but serviceable all the same. 

In fairness, she's from Gallifrey so English isn't her first language. Also she couldn't even remember her own name at the time, so remembering English grammar was a tall order.

Hell, I'm from England (speak it quietly) but you've pretty accurately described me on a Friday night at times!  Struggle remembering my Grandma too!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Daveycandlish 08 October, 2018, 07:45:34 PM
I liked most of it and will continue to watch it.
If you didn't, well I'm sure your telly has other channels you can change to or even an off button you can press.
If you prefer 20th century Who, pop a dvd on.

Or is that all too sensible?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 08 October, 2018, 07:45:47 PM
The viewing figures seem extremely promising based on this report from the Doctor Who News site; the best the shows done in ten years in fact:

Doctor Who: The Woman Who Fell to Earth was watched by 8.2 million viewers, a share of 40.1% of the total TV audience, according to unofficial overnight figures.

The audience grew throughout the episode, peaking at 8.52 million for the final fifteen minutes.

The rating makes Doctor Who the third highest rating of the week, just behind two editions of Strictly Come Dancing.

It is the highest overnight rating for the series for a regular episode for over ten years. The debut episode of the Twelfth Doctor, Deep Breath, had an overnight rating of 6.8 million viewers, while the debut episode of The Eleventh Doctor, The Eleventh Hour, had 7.7 million, with 0.3 million also watching on BBC HD, making a total of 8.0 million. The last regular episode to top this figure was Journey's End in 2008, with an overnight figure of 9.4 million.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Bad City Blue 08 October, 2018, 08:06:26 PM
Well I liked it, said Florence, hopefully.

At no point was the fact that a (gasp) woman was playing the lead over egged, and I thought she did a sterling job, as well as being hella cute (why has no one else mentioned this?)

There were narrative holes and errors but I am happy to accept this in a family SF show that is going for entertainment over being a nitpickers wasteland.

The supporting cast were excellent, and I loved the relationship between Gran/Grandad and grandson. It made the death all the more heartbreaking. Bradley Walsh was surprisingly good, as although he provides comic lines he has an actual personality as well.

the end theme music was good, but I thought the drums were too warlike and overdone. the background was very pertwee-like, so hopefully that will be the same when it is done at the beginning.

Overall a very, very satisfying start. Happy to hear Chibnall say that each episode will be standalone and we aren't being forced to try and understand a stupid, confusing arc or mysterious characters like fucking Clara, who i got well sick of.

No gay or lesbian references yet, so will wait for the continued outrage from sexist twats when that pops up.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Richard 08 October, 2018, 09:15:14 PM
All of Daveycandlish's alternative suggestions are perfectly sensible, but my preference would be to see a new Dr Who episode that takes full advantage of the show's unique premise.

Other Earth-based SF shows like Black Mirror are perfectly good too, but that isn't really the point -- they're entirely different shows which aren't about someone who has a TARDIS that can take them anywhere and anywhen.

Anyway, maybe next week will be better.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tiplodocus 08 October, 2018, 09:31:21 PM
I enjoyed that.

Ticked all the boxes for me but not sure why I just thought it was just good rather than brilliant. Jodie was great and very Doctorish. And great cliffhanger.

The show looked gorgeous too; and it was set in Sheffield! How much must the sfx budget have been?.

I like the fact they seem to be keeping it an unashamedly family show (albeit a scary one on the basis of this episode). Much as I liked some of the arc storytelling, I felt it got too tied up in its own continuity and put our family off watching it.

I won't pretend to know who half of the guest stars listed at the end were but the Beeb obviously think they are worth shouting about. But Alan Cumming! Yay!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 08 October, 2018, 10:14:50 PM
If you don't know who the guest cast are, this may help if you're so inclined to find out...
http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/cult/feature/g25501/doctor-who-season-11-cast-guest-stars/? (http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/cult/feature/g25501/doctor-who-season-11-cast-guest-stars/?)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: von Boom 08 October, 2018, 10:18:52 PM
I absolutely hate, hate, HATE the fact that I thought Bradley Walsh was pretty damn good in this. I wanted to be able to complain about him and make bad Corrie references. No luck there.

Jodie Whitaker was great, but then I knew she would be. The story was one of the darkest in ages and the random deaths to show how twisted Tim Shaw is worked for me. What else would you expect from Chris Chibnall?

Whitaker is more upbeat than Capaldi, but not as mad as Smith. I like the direction it's taking so far.

I am worried, unnecessarily I hope, about the fact that she said she was looking for 'a doctor'. In the wrong hands this could be used to create a plotline that erases Whitaker as the Doctor. I'm sure it won't come to that. Looking forward to the rest of the series.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Richard 08 October, 2018, 10:23:58 PM
Thanks Andy, I'm rather encouraged by that article.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 08 October, 2018, 10:33:13 PM
Happy to oblige 😊
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: M.I.K. 08 October, 2018, 10:44:05 PM
I won't pretend to know who half of the guest stars listed at the end were but the Beeb obviously think they are worth shouting about. But Alan Cumming! Yay!

As King James VI / I, apparently. That means high likelihood of witchy goings on.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 08 October, 2018, 10:49:15 PM
I won't pretend to know who half of the guest stars listed at the end were but the Beeb obviously think they are worth shouting about. But Alan Cumming! Yay!

As King James VI / I, apparently. That means high likelihood of witchy goings on.

I'm sure I read somewhere that this series would see Doctor Who do a Halloween episode for the first time. Perhaps this is it?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Funt Solo 08 October, 2018, 10:50:55 PM
BBC: How the dyspraxic assistant became my hero (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45784822)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tiplodocus 08 October, 2018, 10:55:15 PM
If you don't know who the guest cast are, this may help if you're so inclined to find out...
http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/cult/feature/g25501/doctor-who-season-11-cast-guest-stars/? (http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/cult/feature/g25501/doctor-who-season-11-cast-guest-stars/?)

Blimey, actually I have seen most of them before after all.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: von Boom 08 October, 2018, 10:56:19 PM
I won't pretend to know who half of the guest stars listed at the end were but the Beeb obviously think they are worth shouting about. But Alan Cumming! Yay!

As King James VI / I, apparently. That means high likelihood of witchy goings on.

I'm sure I read somewhere that this series would see Doctor Who do a Halloween episode for the first time. Perhaps this is it?
Does that mean there's going to be a Thanksgiving episode was well?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: M.I.K. 08 October, 2018, 11:24:51 PM
If you're implying that Hallowe'en is an American tradition, I'm going to have to ask you to leave before I'm forced to post a massive crapload of evidence to the contrary.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 08 October, 2018, 11:40:34 PM
Why would I imply that? Halloween may be commercialised by America, but I'm aware it's roots are Celtic.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: M.I.K. 08 October, 2018, 11:52:35 PM
I wasn't inferring that you were implying. I was referring to von Boom's implying about the Thanksgiving...
Does that mean there's going to be a Thanksgiving episode was well?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: von Boom 08 October, 2018, 11:58:51 PM
I wasn't inferring that you were implying. I was referring to von Boom's implying about the Thanksgiving...
Does that mean there's going to be a Thanksgiving episode was well?
Ask a silly question...
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 09 October, 2018, 12:16:11 AM
Ah, sorry - my bad.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Funt Solo 09 October, 2018, 01:22:57 AM
Actually, Doctor Who was invented by the Americans in 1881 and later stolen by the British. Evidence:

(https://i.imgur.com/eWh5bXJ.png)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Trout 09 October, 2018, 02:54:18 AM
A Thanksgiving episode? This was the Thanksgiving episode! Happy Canadian Thanksgiving, everybody!

I really enjoyed this show. I watched it with my wife and children and we all had a good time. The villain with the teeth creeped me out a lot (I hate images of teeth) so it was probably the most afraid I've been of Who since the Weeping Angels.

The new Doctor was great. Her gender was relevant but not overplayed and she came across as really likeable but with an edge. The joke about a sonic screwdriver with Sheffield steel made me grin.

Also I liked "of" instead of "have" because it's nicely informal and accessible. I'm a grammar pedant too, but I relax when something is trying to represent spoken speech, which evolves all the time and can't be controlled.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Richard 09 October, 2018, 10:01:36 AM
It can be controlled, if we rip out the offenders' tongues with pliers.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Proudhuff 09 October, 2018, 11:12:05 AM
I enjoyed the whole thing, but the disregard for human life left a bad taste in the mouth: the train driver and granddad security guard could have been left unconscious, but they were dispatched and forgotten about with no fuss or second thought while another character, rightly, got eulogised.
The story did feel a bit like a salute to Terminator though...

A pedant would note that cranes aren't allowed that close to each other either, but that would be petty  :lol:
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Richard 09 October, 2018, 11:24:25 AM
Just because it's not allowed doesn't mean it doesn't happen!

Dr Who has always had people being killed off by the baddy. He wouldn't seem quite as threatening if he was only knocking them out.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 09 October, 2018, 11:28:37 AM
For all intensive purposes Trout is correct: this pacific form appears in literally every single line of TV dialogue, no different than alot of other modern speech, and this phenomena has fewer affects on comprehension than most
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tiplodocus 09 October, 2018, 11:59:39 AM
Yeah. Imma agree. Itsa mute point.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 09 October, 2018, 12:00:24 PM
On the body count, Mrs IP did note that The Doctor essentially let the baddie go, knowing he's murdered at least one person and kidnapped another (who is still alive, in stasis). Will that be followed up? (The suggestion is everything this series is standalone.)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: sheridan 09 October, 2018, 12:51:00 PM
Okay, she was perhaps a little  manic, but cut her some slack, like all actors playing the Doctor, they usually take a few stories to find their feet. I honestly think shell be just fine.


Agreed - I'm hoping the manic part is going to calm down, as is usual with the 'recently regenerated' episodes, going right back to Worzel Gummidge (sorry, mind failing me, and I'm young enough to know the actor primarily through his later role).


Pertwee - got there just before pressing 'post'.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: sheridan 09 October, 2018, 01:02:06 PM
 .
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: sheridan 09 October, 2018, 01:07:46 PM
... there's a long list of actors almost none of whom I've ever heard of...

Does one need recognizable actors to make something good?  (Rhetorical: I already know the answer.)


Yep - I don't even think of Doctor Who as being a show that has long lists of previously-known celebs.  There's a little bit of before-they-were-famous face-spotting in original run episodes, but other than that it's only really a recent christmas special think to have.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mister Pops 09 October, 2018, 01:24:52 PM
For all intensive purposes Trout is correct: this pacific form appears in literally every single line of TV dialogue, no different than alot of other modern speech, and this phenomena has fewer affects on comprehension then most

Sorry, I couldn't let it lie
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 09 October, 2018, 01:30:28 PM
You wouldn't let it lie!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Fungus 09 October, 2018, 01:54:23 PM
For all intensive purposes Trout is correct: this pacific form appears in literally every single line of TV dialogue, no different than alot of other modern speech, and this phenomena has fewer affects on comprehension then most

Sorry, I couldn't let it lie

Bravo.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Bolt-01 09 October, 2018, 01:58:21 PM
Huffster- If I'm correct then the crane bits were all from an actual place just north of Sheffield. I'm sure I've seen it whilst on the rout to Thought Bubble, where there are just loads of Cranes standing around...

Colin? Can you confirm?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: sheridan 09 October, 2018, 01:59:33 PM
That was very entertaining.

Especially if you imagined ABCwarBOT’s peeved little face as he sat there watching it with his pre-prepared checklist of things to complain about, desperately sucking on his weak lemon drink every time a woman or POC appeared on screen.


I'm going to have to try to remember the bit about squeaky-voiced helium-inhalers (doesn't apply to husky-voiced women, of course).
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: sheridan 09 October, 2018, 02:05:07 PM
Sorry, but this is just patent nonsense. As I said in my first post on this thread, one of the things I really liked about this episode was how few mentions were made of the fact that the Doctor had changed genders, making for a clear signifier that this wasn't a big deal.


Quoted for truth - this is the 21st century, not the 19th!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: sheridan 09 October, 2018, 02:05:55 PM
I can honestly say the only bit that annoyed me was when The Doctor said 'would of' (one of my mum's pet hates so it's always really noticeable to me).


That was the low point of the episode for me!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Proudhuff 09 October, 2018, 02:14:15 PM
Huffster- If I'm correct then the crane bits were all from an actual place just north of Sheffield. I'm sure I've seen it whilst on the rout to Thought Bubble, where there are just loads of Cranes standing around...

Colin? Can you confirm?

there are a gantry (collective noun for cranes) in the heart of Edinbra just now, very close together, but they are the new counterwieghted vertical ones, we really need an expert, any crane operatives out there?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: sheridan 09 October, 2018, 02:17:02 PM
And I don't buy your Eastenders argument either.  Unless you can point me to the Easties episode where weird murderous aliens crack out of space-eggs and a flying electric spaghetti monster plants a DNA bomb in Dot Cotton's neck.


You asked for this. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQCeMIQpFBc)


: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: sheridan 09 October, 2018, 02:33:15 PM
Other Earth-based SF shows like Black Mirror are perfectly good too, but that isn't really the point -- they're entirely different shows which aren't about someone who has a TARDIS that can take them anywhere and anywhen.


Just thought of one reason why the first episode almost always has to be on Earth, and it's not to do with the doctor themselves.  Obviously budget is a consideration - but not of the locations, rather the characters.  The first episode sees the doctor picking up companions, and it's at lot easier to have a series of cheaper companions if you start on earth than if you start on an alien planet that's going to require loads of expensive, time-consuming and sometimes challenging makeup and special effects.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Proudhuff 09 October, 2018, 02:40:20 PM
And I don't buy your Eastenders argument either.  Unless you can point me to the Easties episode where weird murderous aliens crack out of space-eggs and a flying electric spaghetti monster plants a DNA bomb in Dot Cotton's neck.


You asked for this. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQCeMIQpFBc)

FFS NSFW... its got Noel Edmund in it  :lol:
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Dandontdare 09 October, 2018, 02:41:49 PM
Well I wasn't 100% convinced but it was enjoyable enough - regen episodes are always herd to judge, I'll give it a bit more time. Some of Jodie's dialogue seemed a bit forced and the story wasn't up to much, but it's very much still Doctor Who. I'm still waiting for that killer line of dialogue that says YES - that is the doctor, but I haven't seen anything that really puts me off.

I would of ( ;)) thought that when they're making such a huge change, they'd want to keep as much of the rest as familiar as possible to assist continuity, so the new filming style and removing her from the Tardis are odd decisions.

I did not like the "coming next" teaser being taken over by a list of guest stars - Dr Who has always had them but it gives the feeling the programme is just becoming a showcase for whichever celebs they can round up.

Was looking at the BBC news  comments section yesterday - predictable whinging about a stealth-tax funding PC agendas, but the one that made me laugh said "as if you could just look up how to drive a crane on your phone. Ridiculous"  - i did a quick search and in 30 seconds had found 10 short videos showing how to operate a crane.  :lol:
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 09 October, 2018, 03:07:28 PM
Huffster- If I'm correct then the crane bits were all from an actual place just north of Sheffield. I'm sure I've seen it whilst on the rout to Thought Bubble, where there are just loads of Cranes standing around...

Colin? Can you confirm?

Well Sheffield is crane city. The spot I think you mean Bolt is what I like to think of as the Crane graveyard (Just a depot I'd imagine) by Meadowhall on the M1 on the edge of the city heading Leedswards.

I was wondering whether it was there but can't be sure.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: sheridan 09 October, 2018, 03:40:51 PM
Yeah. Imma agree. Itsa mute point.


Count me outta dis one.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Funt Solo 09 October, 2018, 03:51:30 PM
And I don't buy your Eastenders argument either.  Unless you can point me to the Easties episode where weird murderous aliens crack out of space-eggs and a flying electric spaghetti monster plants a DNA bomb in Dot Cotton's neck.
You asked for this. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQCeMIQpFBc)

Everything I thought I knew to be true was a lie!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mister Pops 09 October, 2018, 03:53:48 PM
Sorry, but this is just patent nonsense. As I said in my first post on this thread, one of the things I really liked about this episode was how few mentions were made of the fact that the Doctor had changed genders, making for a clear signifier that this wasn't a big deal.


Quoted for truth - this is the 21st century, not the 19th!

See that's an interesting point, because there could well be an episode set in the 19th century, and the Doctor will face heretofore (thentofore?) challenges on her knowledge and authority, the shrill, bossy cow.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: sheridan 09 October, 2018, 04:55:40 PM
Sorry, but this is just patent nonsense. As I said in my first post on this thread, one of the things I really liked about this episode was how few mentions were made of the fact that the Doctor had changed genders, making for a clear signifier that this wasn't a big deal.


Quoted for truth - this is the 21st century, not the 19th!

See that's an interesting point, because there could well be an episode set in the 19th century, and the Doctor will face heretofore (thentofore?) challenges on her knowledge and authority, the shrill, bossy cow.

So tempted to give a multi-pronged answer to that one, but don't have time right now...
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tjm86 10 October, 2018, 04:54:58 AM
it's at lot easier to have a series of cheaper companions if you start on earth than if you start on an alien planet that's going to require loads of expensive, time-consuming and sometimes challenging makeup and special effects.

Have you seen some of the residents of Sheffield?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: jacob g 10 October, 2018, 10:01:40 PM
Whitaker also sounded as if she'd inhaled helium or something with her squeaky voice.

If Jodie voice annoys you... you really must heave suffered through Tennant episodes and all of his sqeaks and over the top high pitches.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 14 October, 2018, 07:53:52 PM
Well no real complaints about this week's episode, that was proper Dr Who that was. Sort-of glad they were fibbing about there being any season arc too.

Yaz felt a bit underused, the robots maybe a bit underdesigned,  but I liked the problem solving, the refreshing lack of speechifying and again the fact that I could actually hear the dialogue. Loving the credits music too.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 14 October, 2018, 08:03:26 PM
Really enoughed the first half but it lost its way a little trying to pack all sorts in when the 'abitrubbishbots' appeared. Still kids loved it and Sheffield own Police Box on Surrey Street got a mention, that got a cheer in our house!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 14 October, 2018, 08:25:07 PM
Another very good episode. I quite like the robots but wondered why they were so slow and inaccurate with their shooting. The bandage monsters didn’t really convince either. Other than that it was really enjoyable.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 14 October, 2018, 08:28:25 PM
I did sort-of wonder about the Doctor giving up and going full self-pity at the end, but I'm happy enough to chalk it up to a to-be-explored peculiarity of this incarnation, or failing that, a post-regeneration wobbly.

Liked the new interior BTW,  especially the 'porch'. And as Colin says,  the kids loved it.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: M.I.K. 14 October, 2018, 08:31:56 PM
Never mind all that... The TARDIS now dispenses biscuits! That's a damn good upgrade, (though I would've went with Hobnobs, myself).
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Leigh S 14 October, 2018, 08:35:15 PM
Plus points, it wasn't about the end of the world, all the acting bar Ryan, who drains the life out of every line he delivers, great old school but updated theme tune and old school but updated time tunnel opening credits

minus points for the talky cloth scene - what was that all about?

Is Rosa Parks too soon / important to throw into Dr Who? I guess we will find out next week!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: BPP 15 October, 2018, 01:09:27 AM

minus points for the talky cloth scene - what was that all about?


Appealing to Harry Potter fans I imagine.

It’s a bit like season 1 & 2 of capaldi - some great ideas with a ton of terrible ones.

I’m loathed to be negative on the first female doctor but it really doesn’t work so far - her voice is wrong, the character has no presence (that looking up at the guy arguing shot was terrible - reinforced she has no gravitas) and the outfit is Rainbow-gone-wrong. At least the assistants are an upgrade on George Zippy and Bungle. And yes I hated Tennants mannerisms and voice ticks too and largely switched off in his tenure. Hopefully by 4-5 epsoides in she gets a bit of boosh about her and they start to learn to frame a petite female vs big gruff men / aliens a tad more convincingly. I almost feel bad about saying this as I’m sure twitter is awash with assholes voicing the same. All I can say is I’m absolutely fine with a female doctor but so far this isn’t hitting the mark.

Sadly so much of the script made zero sense - the crap aim sniper bots, the fire that dosent burn 2 inches out of its visible range, the fact scientists decide to write a short message on the floor as a large mural, Ryan’s wtf gun run moment, the Harry Potter cloths, the teleporting of everyone and everything except the doctor and the assistants..The long speech on family and unity when none of these characters have earned the right to bore on for so long yet.. ..Which was all a shame as the visuals and audio at times were great.

Maybe I’d just been spoilt as I’d just read three progs before, always a hard act to follow.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 15 October, 2018, 10:33:22 AM
I think you're being a bit harsh. There were certainly some minor niggles but slightly rubbish robots and wonky science shouldn't spoil your enjoyment of Dr Who of all things.
As for the voice thing - I just don't get it. She sounds typical of a woman from the north of England - I wouldn't say her voice is particualrly shrill or anything.
The 'physical presence' thing doesn't make much sense to me either. I've never thought of the Doctor as being physically imposing and this episode went to lengths to emphasise the Doctor's 'brains over brawn' philosophy. Gravtias doesn't necessarily come from an imposing physical form either.   
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Dandontdare 15 October, 2018, 10:39:19 AM
I'm hoping it gets better, but the second episode was very disappointing. They said they were moving away from over-complicated stories and long series-arcs to simpler standalone stories, but this was just pants.

The villain could have come from a pantomime (I'm surprised he didn't actually twirl his moustache) - what was his story, why did the Doctor simply let him get away with it? The storytelling was abysmal - after the initial set-up, she literally read most of the exposition off the scenery. Then there were the  floating hankies - not a bad monster in itself - delivering the first of what will obviously be a series of cryptic predictions leading to the series finale. There was some linking rationale behind all the 'silence will fall' hints previously, but I find it implausible that the remnants of a long-abandoned biological weapon would have mysterious insights into the Doctor's situation.

All of these companions means much more screen time devoted to relationship chit-chat rather than action and storytelling, so when the plot does need to be advanced, it is done in obvious and clunky ways (Oh look, those dead scientists have written out all this explanatory basil on the floor. How convenient)

I've not given up hope, and even when it's a bit rubbish, Doctor Who is still fun, but I'm having serious misgivings about this season.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 15 October, 2018, 10:46:25 AM
Well, I liked it. Nothing spectacular, but it feels fresh and fun in a way that most of the Moffat era didn't. The new theme tune is respectful to the original, spooky, and weird. The incidental music is subtle and smart, and I no longer need subtitles to watch the show. Visually, it looks pretty great, and I thought the new TARDIS interior looked suitably alien.

The story was a bit clunky at times, as was the dialogue. It was a bit too A-to-B, but it didn't seem any worse than the bulk of other Doctor Who I've seen, which across classic and new eras suffered from similar issues. As for Whittaker, I think she's doing fine. Her voice is… her voice. I think it's fine. As for her height, perhaps we've just got used to extremely tall Doctors, but (and, yes, I did some Googling) it appears the current one is 1cm shorter than Sylvester McCoy and only 6–7cm shorter than McGann, Troughton and Hartnell.

So, yeah, I'm with JamesC block!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 15 October, 2018, 10:50:26 AM
The odd nature of the multiple threats this week is because this is a race course - the route is specifically designed to include leftover obstacles from a devastated Stenza weapons design/testing ground. Hence shoddy robots,  gas fields and psychic dish cloths. 

There's actually been a pleasingly practical feel to the problems and problem-solving, with companions getting stuck into mechanical repairs and jury-rigging rather than the Doctor just twiddling her rather suggestively-shaped sonic penknife and fixing everything remotely.

I did enjoy the moment where it was clear that somebody at a script meeting realised that it was usually the Tardis that supposedly did the magic translating. FWIW I would have preferred the Tardis to remain elusive for a few episodes longer, with the gang hitchhiking around trying to find it or get back to Earth someone other way.

BTW I think the Doctor is doing just fine at having a presence.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: BPP 15 October, 2018, 11:05:48 AM
I think you're being a bit harsh. There were certainly some minor niggles but slightly rubbish robots and wonky science shouldn't spoil your enjoyment of Dr Who of all things.
As for the voice thing - I just don't get it. She sounds typical of a woman from the north of England - I wouldn't say her voice is particualrly shrill or anything.
The 'physical presence' thing doesn't make much sense to me either. I've never thought of the Doctor as being physically imposing and this episode went to lengths to emphasise the Doctor's 'brains over brawn' philosophy. Gravtias doesn't necessarily come from an imposing physical form either.   

There are many accents to the north and many tonal ranges amongst them. To suggest that her Jane Horrocks is standard is patent nonsense. Her voice is very high register and not one that denotes stature.

The doctors are often physically imposing - probably one of the reasons Sylvester McCoy had such a tough time is that the four doctors before him were all tall and dynamic. Capaldi did look quite frail in comparison to the standard of doctor in the reboot - all tall - but had some height and manic intensity to him. But so far when I see this doctor try and take charge - such as in the failing spaceship this week - I see no reason why the pilots would listen to her. She’s not commanding the scene. And when confronting him on the planet her craning her neck up to argue with him was seriously poor staging. She needs to command a room and stay away from ‘fronting’ up to people much bigger than her. Like it or not there is a different dynamic at play due to her stature and they need to avoid making her look like ‘ girl popping off and invading space’ when she confronts people. From a practical point of view nobody (sober) goes up close against people with 8-10 inches on them - short men, short ladies don’t. Your central nervous system knows not to. Writing her in without regard to her stature is doing her a disservice. Especially as she wasn’t facing down some existential threat (where display could be justified) but simply having a bit of a row.

: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: BPP 15 October, 2018, 11:12:34 AM

There's actually been a pleasingly practical feel to the problems and problem-solving, with companions getting stuck into mechanical repairs and jury-rigging rather than the Doctor just twiddling her rather suggestively-shaped sonic penknife and fixing everything remotely.

Thought she did a ton with it - used it on the space ships, used it on the hologram, used it on the robots for the EMP, used it to open locked doors. Indeed way too much. Especially the EMP bomb because that’s all robot foes now defeated here on in.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 15 October, 2018, 11:19:45 AM
All robot foes with that same power configuration and no hardening against EMP,  maybe.  I agree that the gradual transformation of the sonic screwdriver to a magic wand, and almost the Doctor's defining superpower,  is one of the worst aspects of NuWho, and that 13 seems to use it a lot,  but not so far to the exclusion of more hands-on tinkering. Stuff gets made, levers are pulled, things are plugged in - it's an improvement.

Opening doors,  investigating holograms - that's what the screwdriver is for. Channelling the love of humanity to reset time, less so.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: M.I.K. 15 October, 2018, 11:51:40 AM
From a practical point of view nobody (sober) goes up close against people with 8-10 inches on them - short men, short ladies don’t. Your central nervous system knows not to.

This has not been my experience of short people. Or terriers.

Also, you're talking about a character who forgot they'd changed gender, only realised their legs used to be longer at a crucial point and needed it pointed out to them that they should probably change out of the damaged outfit they'd been wearing continuously for at least a couple of days.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 15 October, 2018, 12:05:58 PM
Very few of the Doctor's incarnations have had ANY concept of personal space, at least not since No.  4. Squishing their face right up against people and lecturing them is what the Doctor does. Also, she's not a woman any more than that Tardis is a police box:  she's a quasi-immortal alien busybody with two hearts, and her power has never been about her physical size. And she knows kung-fu.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 15 October, 2018, 12:13:02 PM
I think you're being a bit harsh. There were certainly some minor niggles but slightly rubbish robots and wonky science shouldn't spoil your enjoyment of Dr Who of all things.
As for the voice thing - I just don't get it. She sounds typical of a woman from the north of England - I wouldn't say her voice is particualrly shrill or anything.
The 'physical presence' thing doesn't make much sense to me either. I've never thought of the Doctor as being physically imposing and this episode went to lengths to emphasise the Doctor's 'brains over brawn' philosophy. Gravtias doesn't necessarily come from an imposing physical form either.   

 ‘ Woman popping off and invading space’ when

Fixed that for you.  :lol:
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: BPP 15 October, 2018, 12:14:53 PM

Also, you're talking about a character who forgot they'd changed gender

That’s a reasonable point although it dosent accomadate how the visual looks to an audience. Actually would be nice and clever writing if they developed your point in relation to her posture changing but I doubt they will.

It actually reminds me a lot of the problem The 100 faced when they kept having small teenage women (yes yes actually played by older actors obviously) try and front off against massive 6 foot plus warriors. At a certain point you have to acknowledge it just looks wrong and unconvincing. It’s not to say females can’t command a room or situation or have massive presence but they don’t do it that way.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: BPP 15 October, 2018, 12:18:13 PM
I think you're being a bit harsh. There were certainly some minor niggles but slightly rubbish robots and wonky science shouldn't spoil your enjoyment of Dr Who of all things.
As for the voice thing - I just don't get it. She sounds typical of a woman from the north of England - I wouldn't say her voice is particualrly shrill or anything.
The 'physical presence' thing doesn't make much sense to me either. I've never thought of the Doctor as being physically imposing and this episode went to lengths to emphasise the Doctor's 'brains over brawn' philosophy. Gravtias doesn't necessarily come from an imposing physical form either.   

 ‘ Woman popping off and invading space’ when

Fixed that for you.  :lol:
I’d ask you not to pretend to change my words.

‘Popping off’ is very much a junenile activity and I know what I wrote. I’m trying to voice problems I find with how this portrayal of the doctor is coming across to me, a person who has no problems with a woman being the doctor. You can go trough my posts here and see I have never expressed any issue about the appointment of a female doctor. I’m all for this one being successful and the next one being a female too.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 15 October, 2018, 12:33:17 PM
FWIW I would have preferred the Tardis to remain elusive for a few episodes longer, with the gang hitchhiking around trying to find it or get back to Earth someone other way.


Yeah I really hoped they'd do this, think it would have been great fun. Alas not and I can see why they might have gone that way. After all its a key concept to the show and I'm assuming they want lots of new folks tuning in so best to get it established asap.

Still shame as it would have been a good setup. Mind that said the redesign now it is here is great.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 15 October, 2018, 12:44:40 PM
FWIW I would have preferred the Tardis to remain elusive for a few episodes longer, with the gang hitchhiking around trying to find it or get back to Earth someone other way.


Yeah I really hoped they'd do this, think it would have been great fun. Alas not and I can see why they might have gone that way. After all its a key concept to the show and I'm assuming they want lots of new folks tuning in so best to get it established asap.

Still shame as it would have been a good setup. Mind that said the redesign now it is here is great.

Mmmm. My 9-year old daughter,  who somehow has never watched or even been particularly aware of Dr Who before (I have no idea how, she's a pretty hardcore SF show fan... I'm just a bad father), was entranced by the reveal of the Tardis interior, so I suppose they know what they are doing.  My son (12) says he prefers 13 to the three previous Doctors he's watched (Tennant, Smith and Capaldi, but mainly Smith), despite harbouring a mild resentment for girls being the center of everything these days (his words), so ditto.

 
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 15 October, 2018, 12:48:43 PM
I think you're being a bit harsh. There were certainly some minor niggles but slightly rubbish robots and wonky science shouldn't spoil your enjoyment of Dr Who of all things.
As for the voice thing - I just don't get it. She sounds typical of a woman from the north of England - I wouldn't say her voice is particualrly shrill or anything.
The 'physical presence' thing doesn't make much sense to me either. I've never thought of the Doctor as being physically imposing and this episode went to lengths to emphasise the Doctor's 'brains over brawn' philosophy. Gravtias doesn't necessarily come from an imposing physical form either.   

 ‘ Woman popping off and invading space’ when

Fixed that for you.  :lol:
I’d ask you not to pretend to change my words.

‘Popping off’ is very much a junenile activity and I know what I wrote. I’m trying to voice problems I find with how this portrayal of the doctor is coming across to me, a person who has no problems with a woman being the doctor. You can go trough my posts here and see I have never expressed any issue about the appointment of a female doctor. I’m all for this one being successful and the next one being a female too.

I was just trying to be funny but on a more serious note, your post does come across like 'weedy little girls should stay away from big tough men' which seems to miss the point of the scene. While she might not have an imposing physical presence, the Doctor isn't daunted by those that do. She isn't intimidated by big tough men or guns. I thought the scene worked well. Your comparison to 300 seems mis-judged - the Doctor was using 'Venusian aikido', a martial art. How many martial arts films feature a physically smaller protagonist standing up to a bigger, more physically imposing oponent?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 15 October, 2018, 12:57:56 PM
And pretty much all genre TV that has featured a woman since 1995. 
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: BPP 15 October, 2018, 12:58:33 PM
Those martial arts movies with a super trained athlete rather than a regenerated doctor not able to judge her stature yet?

Give me a break - one minute the Defense is she’s not in full awareness of her body yet, the next is she’s a space ninja.

Anyway real life calls so we can sign off on a ‘we all wish this series well’ note that’s grand.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: shaolin_monkey 15 October, 2018, 01:01:30 PM
The great thing about Aikido is that it is very concerned about protecting the attacker from harm as much as the defender.  It's great that Venusian Aikido is the same, and awesome that the Doctor is a master of it.  It totally fits in with his/her (their? hir?)* life-long philosophy.

*Apologies for the brief interlude into the grammatical challenges of the gender-fluid.  The Doctor identifies as a woman, so from this point onwards I'll say 'her'.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 15 October, 2018, 01:02:58 PM
Give me a break - one minute the Defense is she’s not in full awareness of her body yet, the next is she’s a space ninja.

Both those things were in the show. 
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: BPP 15 October, 2018, 01:07:09 PM
And pretty much all genre TV that has featured a woman since 1995.

Actually of you take Person of Interest you see three main female characters who don’t demonstrate any of the problems the doctors demonstrating.

Root - was tall but physically very slight - she stays away from one to one aggression and moves about a scene, only moving close with stealth. Her height also meant she was rarely looking up at bigger foes.

Shaw - was much smaller but also much more muscular and very much the Vasquez of the show. Even then her chest to chest moments against larger foes were ‘display’ and made sense. From the minute she’s introduced she’s a murder machine so her threat level is clear to all.

Control - an absolute mountain of a woman who let her size carry as much threat as her authority. It’s convincung that she used her size to propel her status and career as a no-bullshit boss.

: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 15 October, 2018, 01:16:16 PM
Have to defer to you on that one,  never seen it.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 15 October, 2018, 01:16:48 PM
While they managed to pick up and fix the potential plot hole of the languages being translated without the TARDIS being present, I did notice one small goof which managed to make it's way through into the finished episode.

In 'The Woman Who Fell to Earth' the Doctor, while still in 12's outfit, repeatedly makes it clear that she has nothing in her pockets, after which she picks up her new outfit from a charity shop and heads immediately off to the planet in 'The Ghost Monument'. So...where exactly did Audrey Hepburn's sunglasses appear from?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 15 October, 2018, 01:22:01 PM
I would imagine Person of Interest had military advisors on the production. Probably less likely that Doctor Who has any Venusian Aikido masters on hand but you never know. :lol:
They're very different shows. If your criticism of Doctor Who is that the combat/action isn't as realistically prsented as it is on PoI then I guess that's fair enough. Seems kind of weird though.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Dandontdare 15 October, 2018, 01:50:14 PM
In 'The Woman Who Fell to Earth' the Doctor, while still in 12's outfit, repeatedly makes it clear that she has nothing in her pockets, after which she picks up her new outfit from a charity shop and heads immediately off to the planet in 'The Ghost Monument'. So...where exactly did Audrey Hepburn's sunglasses appear from?

They just didn't show the bit where she travels back in time a few decades and persuades Audrey Hepburn to donate a coat with sunglasses in the pocket to a Sheffield charity shop. Simple.

When the cigar was introduced they may as well have waved it around shouting "look folks, this is what we'll use to save the day in a bit" (from a fire that mysteriously didn't consume the oxygen in the tiny space between the ground and the rest of the atmosphere - people have died in Californian wildfires by jumping into swimming pools but suffocating as the fire sweeps over sucking up all the oxygen)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 15 October, 2018, 02:17:59 PM
Well, if people can live with spaceships going PEW PEW PEW in almost every sci-fi flick and show, I can suspend disbelief for some sci-fi wobbliness in Doctor Who.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mattofthespurs 15 October, 2018, 03:38:28 PM
Regardless of any nit picking over small details I just didn't like the episode bar the last ten minutes.
Just thought it was a poor story poorly written.
But my Son and I both let our a cheer when the Tardis appeared.
Loved the Tardis stuff.
Loved the first episode, not keen on episode 2.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 15 October, 2018, 04:01:45 PM
In 'The Woman Who Fell to Earth' the Doctor, while still in 12's outfit, repeatedly makes it clear that she has nothing in her pockets, after which she picks up her new outfit from a charity shop and heads immediately off to the planet in 'The Ghost Monument'. So...where exactly did Audrey Hepburn's sunglasses appear from?

They just didn't show the bit where she travels back in time a few decades and persuades Audrey Hepburn to donate a coat with sunglasses in the pocket to a Sheffield charity shop. Simple.


It's good to know they're already planning for the future of Big Finish.  :lol:

Thoughts on 'The Ghost Monument':

I love the new theme tune even more now I've seen the opening titles. A perfect modern evocation of the original titles from '63.

I thought the episode was much more engaging this week than last. It looked gorgeous throughout and it's been a while since we had a good old fashioned 'quest' story. It maybe could have done with a little bit more incident to shore up the middle, but I think that was my favourite Chibnall penned episode by far. (Though that may be somewhat faint praise.)

Jodie Whitaker continues to impress. The Doctor just seemed so enthusiastic about the adventure that she makes you want to go with her and join in on her travels. This is exactly what the Doctor should be.

New TARDIS interior - I think it's probably pretty good. I didn't really feel we got a properly clear shot of it, and I kind of wish it was lit a different colour to the near default new series colour scheme of 'burnt orange'; with the interior which immediately pre-dated this one being the obvious exception.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tiplodocus 15 October, 2018, 05:00:35 PM
I thought that was Ok. Not brilliant. Not one of my problems with the episode were caused by the Doctor not having a penis.

Whittaker is great, isn't she? Fits like a glove.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 15 October, 2018, 09:53:45 PM
Incase you were curious about the next few episodes...

Episode 3 - Rosa

"If she can live here her whole life, a couple of hours ain’t gonna kill me. They ain’t gonna kill me, right?"

Montgomery, Alabama. 1955. The Doctor and her friends find themselves in the Deep South of America. As they encounter a seamstress by the name of Rosa Parks, they begin to wonder: is someone attempting to change history?


Episode 4 - Arachnids In The UK

"Something’s happening with the spiders in this city."

The Doctor, Yaz, Graham and Ryan find their way back to Yorkshire – and Yaz’s family – only to find something is stirring amidst the eight-legged arachnid population of Sheffield.


Episode 5 - The Tsuranga Conundrum

"Risk to life: absolute."

Injured and stranded in the wilds of a far-flung galaxy, The Doctor, Yaz, Graham and Ryan must band together with a group of strangers to survive against one of the universe’s most deadly -- and unusual -- creatures.


Episode 6 - Demons Of The Punjab

“What’s the point of having a mate with a time machine, if you can’t nip back and see your gran when she was younger?”

India, 1947. The Doctor and her friends arrive in the Punjab, as the country is being torn apart. While Yaz attempts to discover her grandmother’s hidden history, the Doctor discovers demons haunting the land. Who are they and what do they want?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 15 October, 2018, 10:01:44 PM
The Rosa Parks episode could either be a resounding success or an absolute catastrophe, depending on how they handle the subject matter. I hope to goodness it's the former.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: ABCwarBOT 15 October, 2018, 10:59:21 PM
So far I've struggled to get to the end of each episode.   Feels nothing like Dr Who and Jodie's like an irritating comedy act though she's not funny.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Leigh S 15 October, 2018, 11:07:11 PM
My wife is pretty horrified at the idea of them using Rosa Parks, and I kind of agree - as you say, if it was handled well, like Alan Moore well, it might work, but Doctor Who has yet to provide us with Moore level writing, new or classic series! 

She is particularly offended by the idea that the Civil Rights movement wouldnt have happened , albeit slightly differently/later without Parks - after all, Parks was one of a thousand examples of injustice that the movement, which was aleady gathered great momentum, could have built it argument around. 
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Jim_Campbell 15 October, 2018, 11:33:53 PM
So far I've struggled to get to the end of each episode.   Feels nothing like Dr Who and Jodie's like an irritating comedy act though she's not funny.

Man who was adamant he wasn’t going to enjoy TV series watches it anyway; doesn’t enjoy it. Film at eleven.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 16 October, 2018, 08:44:28 AM
So far I've struggled to get to the end of each episode.   Feels nothing like Dr Who and Jodie's like an irritating comedy act though she's not funny.
She comes across much like Smith and Tennant did, to my mind. As for feeling nothing like Doctor Who and being irritating, she didn’t burst into the room on the back of a tank, wearing shades, and playing guitar, like a deranged mash-up of Malcolm Tucker and Poochie.

Still, here’s an idea for you: why not stop watching? You obviously made up your mind long ago and now want to confirm those opinions. You’re ideologically opposes to the show in its current form. So just avoid it.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Bad City Blue 16 October, 2018, 09:44:03 AM
Not as enjoyable as the first ep, but pretty good if you don't stess over plotholes (I wondered about the sunglasses myself) and logical inconsistencies.

I love the new intro sequence, takes me back to the good ol' days.

When The Doctor said "You've Redecorated" I REALLY wanted her to follow it up with "I don't like it". Then, when the TARDIS gave her a biscuit she could have said "Oh, all right... you've won me over. We'll keep it"

The companions contunie to impress, as does Jodie. Her voice and mannerisms are great, giving her a unique personality amongst Doctors, which is what it's all about, really.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 16 October, 2018, 09:58:52 AM
I really like the new Tardis interior but I still yearn for a super clean chrome and round thingies on the wall look.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Proudhuff 16 October, 2018, 10:15:53 AM
I missed the second episode, so just watched the Crystal Maze with Jodie Whittaker instead...
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: BPP 16 October, 2018, 03:47:01 PM
So far I've struggled to get to the end of each episode.   Feels nothing like Dr Who and Jodie's like an irritating comedy act though she's not funny.
She comes across much like Smith and Tennant did, to my mind. As for feeling nothing like Doctor Who and being irritating, she didn’t burst into the room on the back of a tank, wearing shades, and playing guitar, like a deranged mash-up of Malcolm Tucker and Poochie.


Laff. Much as I love Capaldi that was the worst of the worst. Shame as I think it understandably put many people off him but his last season was largely great and the very end real red-eye TV. The speech to missy and the master at the 11th hour gets me every time.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mardroid 16 October, 2018, 04:20:16 PM
Very few of the Doctor's incarnations have had ANY concept of personal space, at least not since No.  4. Squishing their face right up against people and lecturing them is what the Doctor does. Also, she's not a woman any more than that Tardis is a police box:  she's a quasi-immortal alien busybody with two hearts, and her power has never been about her physical size. And she knows kung-fu.

Yep. She went up against an armed man with a blaster* and parylised him with one finger. There’s the Doctor’s main power in action right there, knowledge, and it’s application. (Intelligence in other words.)

A few niggles aside, I enjoyed this episode a lot.

* That gun looked really familiar to me, by the way. I think I’ve seen it before, somewhere else. A repurposed prop, maybe. Or maybe it’s the generic ‘sci gun looks like a hair dryer**’ thing I’m clocking.

**Because that’s likely what these props originally were.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mardroid 16 October, 2018, 04:48:57 PM
Tardis interior:

I like it a lot. It looks suitably very alien, and a bit weird, while retaining certain anachronistic elements as usual, stuff to pull and push, an hour glass, etc. This is a good thing.

One thing, that strikes me as curious, from the inside POV, the police box seems to now be the porch of the tardis. I.e you don’t just see the front door, you see three walls, to the extent that when the Doctor first entered I wondered if there was something wrong and the inside had been displaced somehow. (I do remember that happening before in a previous episode.) But then she walks further literally through the space the fourth wall would be, and there it all is.

It’s an interesting design, and visually works well, but it’s seems like the new Tardis isn’t so much bigger on the inside, as just to the side of the outside, albeit in a dimensional pocket inaccessible from the outside. I.e so the police box is the porch now, not the outside of the tardis. (Unless it’s all contained in a microscopic section of wall, from the police box perspective, the back wall being at the other end of the complex. I guess that doesn’t break the original rules for the extra-dimensional engineering.)

I’m not saying this is a bad thing, but my feelings are mixed on this.

It all looks wonderful, though.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 16 October, 2018, 06:45:01 PM
Lee Stringer commented on this on Twitter. Noted it’s not a new idea for the TARDIS – just something we’ve not seen in the reboot.

https://twitter.com/lewstringer/status/1051600418915176448?s=21

BPP: agreed. I liked that last series a lot. It was like they realised they were zooming towards everyone's conclusion and wanted to hit it out of the park. Well, apart from Murray Gold, who still did his best to make sure no-one could hear the dialogue, and whoever script edited that farewell speech that went on for approx. three years.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: sheridan 16 October, 2018, 07:59:48 PM
One thing, that strikes me as curious, from the inside POV, the police box seems to now be the porch of the tardis. I.e you don’t just see the front door, you see three walls, to the extent that when the Doctor first entered I wondered if there was something wrong and the inside had been displaced somehow. (I do remember that happening before in a previous episode.) But then she walks further literally through the space the fourth wall would be, and there it all is.


The same thoughts went through my mind (thinking that the relevant dimensional aspect of the TARDIS had broken, and it was just going to be a wooden box until something got fixed.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: von Boom 17 October, 2018, 01:37:26 AM
Overall I liked The Ghost Monument. However, I thought the race was kind of pointless. They could have easily been dumped on the planet without the need of a pickup. I'm getting a very Tom Bakery kind of feel from Whittaker, but in a way that is uniquely her own.

I'm not a fan of the new TARDIS interior. It looks like the interior of a cave. Although the biscuit dispenser is a great idea. This needs to be standard on all future TARDIS'.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 17 October, 2018, 09:25:22 PM
Personally, from what I've seen so far... I love the latest TARDIS interior...

(https://i.imgur.com/decmrT0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XV82QB7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Wk11gvW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wIzXUtl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CLswUVX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XOVDCTG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ysbp4cP.jpg)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Funt Solo 17 October, 2018, 11:09:34 PM
Isn't it a bit weird that the Tardis interior keeps changing?  Was it always this way between Doctors?  Like, did it change between the best Doctor (that's 4, of course) and Tristan Farnon?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 17 October, 2018, 11:21:56 PM
The classic series had the occasional deviation...

(https://i.imgur.com/FQg8E7H.jpg)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 17 October, 2018, 11:25:48 PM
I always liked that Mid-Tom Baker era console room (pictured above), though it was sorely lacking a time rotor (which might have looked glorious had they made one in stained glass to match the theme of the room).

Generally speaking in the classic series the original design was tweaked on a regular basis, though never so major has to make much of a difference. They tried to introduce a new console room in the Jon Pertwee era, rather unflatteringly referred to as the 'washing-up bowl interior', though it didn't stick. It was intended had the series continued into 1990 that a new console room would have been introduced. A design was drawn up for it but it wasn't until the recent Titan Comics run of 7th Doctor strips that the design was actually used.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 17 October, 2018, 11:30:38 PM
I always liked that Mid-Tom Baker era console room (pictured above), though it was sorely lacking a time rotor (which might have looked glorious had they made one in stained glass to match the theme of the room).

Oh yes - that would've looked stunning!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: M.I.K. 17 October, 2018, 11:38:08 PM
Earliest comment upon TARDIS interior alterations within the programme itself and the start of a very long-running gag...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbnWmR7piEg
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 18 October, 2018, 09:32:21 AM
http://www.thedoctorwhosite.co.uk/tardis/interior/

Season seven was apparently the "moved to someone's garage for some reason" TARDIS console room. (And, yes, I know the console wasn't in the TARDIS, but it looks funny in the pictures.)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 18 October, 2018, 10:54:13 AM
Eight and Twenty One are my favourites. I'd like to see a return to that clean look.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Dandontdare 18 October, 2018, 11:18:32 AM
I remember HATING the Tom Baker 'victorian' control room at the time because it just wasn't sci-fi enough and didn't have the up-and-downy thing, I just thought it was silly. The Tardis is obviously capable of almost limitless changes, but in the past only changed in small ways - maybe it's some kind of Time War PTSD that made the Doctor start going for these underlit cavernous monstrosities rather than the former simple functional style
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: GordonR 18 October, 2018, 11:50:25 AM
The first underlit cavernous monstrosity was surely the Seventh Doc’s gloomy gothic cathedral interior seen in the TV movie.  (Complete with crap CGI bats.).

Which predates the Time Wat.  But at least the Tardis cloister bell made sense, with that one.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 18 October, 2018, 12:27:25 PM
Peter Davison has said he would have preferred a more underlit console room after briefly having one in "Enlightenment", pointing out it creates more atmosphere than a stark, bright room. I think he had a point, given how overlit the studios were at the time.
However, having seen a return of a white console room in Capaldi's run, it does still pull on the fond nostalgia strings and the lighting was much improved than how it was in the 1980s. Is it as visually interesting to modern audiences, though? We old-school fans make up just a part of the audience....

(https://i.imgur.com/Jmc5RPd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/cBz9Vau.jpg)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: sheridan 18 October, 2018, 12:57:16 PM
I remember HATING the Tom Baker 'victorian' control room at the time because it just wasn't sci-fi enough and didn't have the up-and-downy thing, I just thought it was silly. The Tardis is obviously capable of almost limitless changes, but in the past only changed in small ways - maybe it's some kind of Time War PTSD that made the Doctor start going for these underlit cavernous monstrosities rather than the former simple functional style


It's not the doctor changing the interior - it's the TARDIS herself.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Jim_Campbell 18 October, 2018, 01:09:23 PM
I think he had a point, given how overlit the studios were at the time.

Was this not simply a by-product of the way many studio scenes were shot…?

Rather than multiple takes for wide, close-up and reaction, they would simply stick three or more cameras on set and shoot once, with one camera taking in the wide, another for Doctor close-ups, a third for Companion #1, and so on. Of necessity, this meant the lighting had to be as flat and bland as possible to work with multiple cameras shooting simultaneously from different angles.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: shaolin_monkey 18 October, 2018, 01:44:14 PM
Does anyone remember the Baker episode when they were being chased around the endless passageways of the TARDIS? I loved that storyline, and always feel the true hugeness of the TARDIS interior has never really had a script befitting it.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Jim_Campbell 18 October, 2018, 01:51:34 PM
Does anyone remember the Baker episode when they were being chased around the endless passageways of the TARDIS? I loved that storyline, and always feel the true hugeness of the TARDIS interior has never really had a script befitting it.

Yes. Absolutely. Strangely, the TV movie was the first time I felt like the TARDIS had even come near being shown the way I always imagined it, even though I hated almost everything else about the movie…
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 18 October, 2018, 01:59:37 PM
Yeah,  I felt the same way about the McGann movie: the Tardis interior was the best thing about it, even the establishing shots of McCoy reading.  As a kid I was always fascinated by the idea that there were maybe infinite unseen rooms,  but deeply frustrated that we got to see so little. Even the costume room was a thrill. Otherwise it was "bigger on the inside - but not much bigger".
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 18 October, 2018, 02:04:03 PM
I remember watching that movie on Netflix fairly recently, with the thinking: surely, it can't be as bad as I remembered it being? Turns out, it can be. The regeneration is handled amusingly (Americans nearly killing The Doctor), and McGann himself was pretty good, as was some of the production design. Otherwise: urgh.

I'd definitely be up for another McGan appearance somehow, though, if they want to do a multiple Doctors thing again. It was great when he showed up in Night of the Doctor.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 18 October, 2018, 02:22:20 PM
Was this not simply a by-product of the way many studio scenes were shot…?

Rather than multiple takes for wide, close-up and reaction, they would simply stick three or more cameras on set and shoot once, with one camera taking in the wide, another for Doctor close-ups, a third for Companion #1, and so on. Of necessity, this meant the lighting had to be as flat and bland as possible to work with multiple cameras shooting simultaneously from different angles.

That could well be the case, but it's a criticism often aimed at Doctor Who of the time, and the previous decades seem to manage more effective lighting allowing for greater depth and atmosphere. I don't know how well you know your Doctor Who, but if you compare the jungle set of 1975's "Planet Of Evil" to say, 1982's "Kinda", the difference is very noticable. "Kinda" looks exactly what it is - a studio set dressed up to look like a jungle.

Does anyone remember the Baker episode when they were being chased around the endless passageways of the TARDIS? I loved that storyline, and always feel the true hugeness of the TARDIS interior has never really had a script befitting it.

That would be "The Invasion Of Time" from 1978. The production team ran out of money on that one and couldn't afford to build new sets so filmed the TARDIS interiors in a disused hospital.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 18 October, 2018, 02:26:05 PM
Didn't Peter Davidson unravel Baker's long scarf as a way of finding his way around the Tardis? I think that's the first time I realised there was more to it than just the control room.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 18 October, 2018, 02:28:20 PM
Didn't Peter Davidson unravel Baker's long scarf as a way of finding his way around the Tardis? I think that's the first time I realised there was more to it than just the control room.

He did indeed.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 18 October, 2018, 06:47:12 PM
The TARDIS interior and Paul McGann were pretty much the only good things about the TV Movie. I do still kind of consider the TV Movie interior to be my favourite of them all.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: von Boom 18 October, 2018, 06:58:29 PM
The TARDIS interior and Paul McGann were pretty much the only good things about the TV Movie. I do still kind of consider the TV Movie interior to be my favourite of them all.
The TV movie was wretched, but I could quite happily live in that TARDIS interior. And with Paul McGann.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Steve Green 18 October, 2018, 07:21:13 PM
I think he had a point, given how overlit the studios were at the time.

Was this not simply a by-product of the way many studio scenes were shot…?

Rather than multiple takes for wide, close-up and reaction, they would simply stick three or more cameras on set and shoot once, with one camera taking in the wide, another for Doctor close-ups, a third for Companion #1, and so on. Of necessity, this meant the lighting had to be as flat and bland as possible to work with multiple cameras shooting simultaneously from different angles.

From what I recall, pretty much like that.

From what I've read Caves of Androzani was shot much more like a regular film was, and is well-regarded but was an exception.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Funt Solo 20 October, 2018, 06:16:26 PM
Fun : Honest Trailers - Modern Who (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9uOaDZDT-s)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Rackle 21 October, 2018, 06:37:10 PM
The TARDIS interior and Paul McGann were pretty much the only good things about the TV Movie. I do still kind of consider the TV Movie interior to be my favourite of them all.
The TV movie was wretched, but I could quite happily live in that TARDIS interior. And with Paul McGann.
I could quite happily live with Paul McGann  ;)  . . . erm . . . I mean I liked his version of the Doctor - including the short webisode when Paul McGann returned and regenerated into the War Doctor. 

Similar to the concept of kind of wishing that Peter Capaldi's Doctor was Malcolm Tucker, I would have liked McGann to be Doctor with Richard E Grant - as Withnail -  to be his assistant. Probably would only work as a spoof for Comic Relief but I would have watched the hell out of it.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 21 October, 2018, 07:49:40 PM
Really enjoyed that one, really good. Okay so there were some gaps in it to get the story and themes covered in the time available  but good powerful stuff.

All the more entertaining as even with the stakes high it was all more subtle and it felt more like 'Back to the Future' than a typical Doctor Who and for that it was such fun while being tension and exciting.

Spiders in Sheffield next week - saw this one being filmed from my office window, can't wait.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 21 October, 2018, 07:51:16 PM
So, tonight's Doctor Who (No spoilers here):

That actually felt like a return to the original remit of the show back in '63, to present historical situations as a means of education. Granted, there was a sci-fi element, but that felt almost Hartnell-esque in it's presentation.

The racism was visceral enough to make the perpetrators seem every bit as - perhaps even more - loathsome than the Daleks, so that was successful. I'm willing to bet that those were the parts of the script not written by Chibnall.

Somehow, they managed to make 1950's America seem like the worst place the TARDIS has ever landed, something which would not have worked with a smaller TARDIS team. Everybody had their part to play in this one.

Please don't play a different piece of music over the end credits again though.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 21 October, 2018, 08:05:59 PM
Well now!  If that's the tone this series is taking, sign me up.

Yes, quite heavy-handed and simplistic, and probably far too much Dr Exposition, but  damn cool all the same - and exciting!  I love the team aspect,  the working-stuff-out on paper,  the absence of psychic paper nonsense and the even the way the sonic tricorder is used (scanning,  opening locks and, errr, white-board eraser). Some nice continuity with River's Stormcage and Capt Jack's time gadget too.

The racism was genuinely affecting,  the characters' frustration, disgust and anger really powerfully delivered.  Robinson was excellent as Rosa,  and Ryan and particularly Grandpa Graham got chances to shine, Yaz less so (again). I think Bradley Walsh is a bit of a treasure. Whittaker has good comic timing too,  loved the Banksy gags.

Episode looked amazing,  BTW - cannot have been cheap to make. And my Rosa-Parks-obsessed daughter loved it. Very promising stuff.

Obligatory but Minor Nitpicking: Not sure why Rosa wasn't freaked to learn Yaz was a cop,  given her earlier worries about Ryan, and not sure why Crasca (?) couldn't have zapped Rosa with his displacer (not hurting her after all, and he was able to shoot at the gang). And there was no way that fishing reel Ryan used was from 1955.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 21 October, 2018, 08:07:31 PM
I thought that was excellent. Really powerful and quite uncomfortable in places - surprisingly so.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it gets a BAFTA nomination.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 21 October, 2018, 08:45:53 PM
Well, after a poignant episode I thought I'd read some online reviews which were mostly very positive... and then I saw some of the comments, and was reminded how we've still got such a long way to go.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Daveycandlish 21 October, 2018, 09:09:08 PM
... and then I saw some of the comments, and was reminded how we've still got such a long way to go.

If I've learnt one thing in all my years online it is NEVER. READ. THE. COMMENTS.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 21 October, 2018, 09:14:06 PM
I didn't intend to... I was scrolling down for the rest of the article and found myself in a cesspit.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 21 October, 2018, 09:18:57 PM
It happens. But feck the lot of them, like tonight's episode pointed out, it may take another lifetime (or many), but they'll lose in the end.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Leigh S 21 October, 2018, 09:49:42 PM
I thought it was great and dodged most of the pitfalls to provide something new for Who, that also felt a bit like a throwback to Hartnell era historical (though does everyone in the 79th C know what a TARDIS is?)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Steve Green 21 October, 2018, 10:51:57 PM
Way better than last week's episode.

It felt like it could have had a little extra time at the end - it was all a bit of rush into the credits with the music not really suiting a whizz past of credits.

Really impressed with the score by Segun Akinola - I can't imagine Murray Gold on an episode like that.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Jim_Campbell 21 October, 2018, 10:57:38 PM
That was a fucking great episode. Yes, absolutely, there’s stuff you could nit-pick at but there were so many ways that could have gone horribly wrong and yet they ended up with something smart and affecting and (depressingly) still so desperately relevant. What a fine bit of TV. Well done, all.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 21 October, 2018, 11:07:05 PM
That was a fucking great episode. Yes, absolutely, there’s stuff you could nit-pick at but there were so many ways that could have gone horribly wrong and yet they ended up with something smart and affecting and (depressingly) still so desperately relevant. What a fine bit of TV. Well done, all.

So relevant that there's literally a story about a black woman being abused on an aeroplane in the news today.

There was one very specific moment where I feared they were going to stray into 'white folk helping a black woman find her place in history' territory, but they avoided it. When Rosa asks the Doctor if 'wining the raffle means she gets to sit anywhere on the bus', it would have been so easy to have had the Doctor say something along the lines of 'No, you'll need to do that on your own.', and I was so worried that was going to be what she would say. But she didn't. She just said 'no', and that made the moment all the more powerful than the potential 'white folk helping' trap they could so easily have fallen into.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: DrJomster 21 October, 2018, 11:16:57 PM
Best one so far. Little wobble with the space bit at the end but overall, pulled off very well.

Grim times, back then.

: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: DrJomster 21 October, 2018, 11:40:18 PM
Ah. Apparently the asteroid is real. I take it all back! Great episode!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 22 October, 2018, 06:03:55 AM
I think the episode did a really good job of adding a bit of detail to a story most people sort-of know.
I knew the basics of what happened but had never really considered it. I didn’t realise they actually had signs on the seats or that people had to get off and get back on at the back. I’d never thought about what happened to the bus driver either. It was really shocking to see it all laid out - it just seems so petty. God knows what kids thought of the episode. I imagine there were lots of questions and that lots of kids will be talking about it at school. To think this was happening around the same time as the McCarhty stuff too - those people had a lot of fear and hatred.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 22 October, 2018, 06:59:44 AM
What struck me most strongly about the episode was the way the initial scenes could so easily have been read as a fantasy situation where a baddie had already changed recent history into one where bus drivers carried guns, Rosa was cowed into getting off the bus, and arseholes punched black guys in the street for returning lost gloves. The revelation that this was our regular timeline, and as Taryn said upthread, it was the worst place the TARDIS had ever landed... well, despite every awareness of the history of the Civil Rights movement, that still managed to be a punch to the gut.  You can read about lynchings, disenfranchisement and separate bathrooms in the Pentagon, but seeing these everyday petty outrages happen to our own contemporary characters in mundane settings (bus, diner, motel) can somehow seem more real.

That they sustained and ratcheted-up the initial discomfort, restrained themselves from having the characters 'inspire' Rosa in any way (although I liked the connection between Rosa and Ryan at the end, and that maybe she was playing to this specific audience too...), and made a well-known story extremely tense and personal (Graham's pain at believing he was letting his wife down by not helping Rosa, on what amounted to his home turf, was brilliantly conveyed without any recourse to NuWho histrionics): that was quite an achievement.

Wimmin Doctors and uppity negroes?  Whatever next. 
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Bad City Blue 22 October, 2018, 08:38:11 AM
Well, after a poignant episode I thought I'd read some online reviews which were mostly very positive... and then I saw some of the comments, and was reminded how we've still got such a long way to go.

That'd be The Independent I assume. Only a handful of comments but almost exclusively negative right wing arseholes.

One of the best ever episodes, and I hope it educated some of today's kids as well as entertaining them.

I was tearing up when Graham talked about his dead wife, who was a brilliant if short lived character. They had a real presence together in the first ep.

Already up there with (for me) "School Reunion" an "Turn Left".
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Dandontdare 22 October, 2018, 10:13:27 AM
Comments sections on the reviews really are depressing aren't they? (apart from one comment I saw pointing out that when there's trouble On the Buses, there's always a Blakey involved).

Pretty good episode, Jodie is growing on me, but I find I'm missing the over-complicated time-bending plots - I keep waiting for the twist that doesn't come, the stories are a little simplistic for my taste.

And please, leave the end credit music alone.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 22 October, 2018, 11:50:07 AM
I wonder what proportion of those people leaving nasty comments actually watched the programme. I struggle to believe many people could watch the episode and still come away thinking a society like that is something they'd want to be a part of.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 22 October, 2018, 12:04:00 PM
Yes,  "this wasn't Dr Who" is a fascinating reaction from anyone who actually watched the episode and has ever watched Dr Who. Whether you liked it or not, this was absolutely Dr Who.

However, I think I'll reserve my open-mouthed awe for the many,  many commentators who were annoyed by the depiction of white Alabama residents as "moustache twirling villains". People who contributed to or just acquiesced to the twisted world of segregation may well have been complex well-meaning individuals living in a bizarre context (#notallracists)  but that's not how history,  or dramatic family telly, are ever going to depict them. Tough luck, and best heed that lesson fellas.

No, wait,  it's the commentators who wanted to explain to Ryan why he (and by extension all black males) was stopped more often than his mates: they're my favourite. Luckily history is coming for them too.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Dandontdare 22 October, 2018, 12:14:02 PM
what gets me is that at least three pages of comments/votes on one website I looked at had been written before the programme had even aired! One comment actually said "If I hadn't already stopped watching, I would particularly avoid this episode" - and he'd gone out of his way to find a Dr Who forum to type that out. Unbelievable.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: dweezil2 22 October, 2018, 12:56:34 PM
For my money, that was a far better episode than the previous two.
Whittaker has seemingly dialled down the hyperactive, manic portrayal, which is most welcome.
The episode was much better written and the production values were very impressive in replicating the period detail.
Some excellent performances and a particularly affecting storyline.
Some great work from Bradly Walsh too!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 22 October, 2018, 01:19:32 PM
After the chat last night I got curious and decided to straight to the horses mouth and looked at the comments on the Telegraph's website.  Dear lord is that a world of entitled hate and fear! It really was quite breathtaking.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 22 October, 2018, 01:53:31 PM
"Why don't the PC Brigade create their own characters?". That's my new favourite. Ah yes,  the Doctor: stamping on the oppressed, championing inequality and generally not getting involved in local politics since 1963. What's that you Daleks, you want to turn Londoners into your Robomen and use them to run slave gangs digging for the Eath's core? Why carry on old chaps,  musn't rock the boat with this PC nonsense, humans should know their place: soon you won't even be able to exterminate an inferior race without some SJW busybody foiling you.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 22 October, 2018, 02:29:11 PM
After the chat last night I got curious and decided to straight to the horses mouth and looked at the comments on the Telegraph's website.  Dear lord is that a world of entitled hate and fear! It really was quite breathtaking.

I almost did the same thing but no - I'm just not going to read it. Life's too short to fill my brain with that shite and I know it'd play on my mind for the next couple of days.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 22 October, 2018, 02:50:54 PM
I had a goo (obviously, it distracts me from imminent economic,  political,  environmental and nuclear doom), and it's more funny than aggravating. A hive mind of the ignorant, fearful and oh-so entitled, running in circles yapping away happily. Just keep telling yourself that pointing this out will only alienate them further,  "othering" goes both ways and we have to find common ground on which to negotiate our better shared future.

Or to put it another way,  small-minded whiny racists hate being called on it.

Mind you, the review the comments are appended to isn't much better, what I could see of it: 2/5 "poorly executed". I know it's the place of critics of criticise aithout the qualifications to back it up, but I would still love to see their idea of "well executed" family telly. It's not an unblemished masterpiece, but "poor" it is not.

Another fave that appears all over the place: "all that's missing is someone with a disability". Obviously paying close attention,  these eagle-eyed guardians of quality telly like what we useta have.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Radbacker 22 October, 2018, 03:00:18 PM
Wow, now that was an awesome episode, probably one of the best new Whi  episodes yet.  I've never really thought about t that period of history and how totally unfair it was to people just because the colour of their skin but that was an eye opener for me.  Even had a bit of a tear in my eye at the end and I'm not ashamed to admit it, top TV

Cu Radbacker
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: auxlen 22 October, 2018, 05:01:25 PM
Late to the party as only just watched episode one.
I always give the new Drs a go...Loved Smith's first series and Capaldi's same but they lost me soon after.
1. Jodie...no problems except she seemed a bit too Matt Smith for me...hopefully she'll find her own soon. Love her costume...
2. NO MORE MURRAY GOLD!!!!!!!! get in...i HATED his too loud, too dramatic music. HATED, I tell you. The new music is a welcomed change.
3. Good mix of companions.
4. Some proper harsh deaths...the security guard on the phone to his granddaughter anyone?
5. Loved the twist where you thought he was idolizing the dr(i hope that was a statement of intent) but it was his nan!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Modern Panther 22 October, 2018, 06:15:02 PM

after the chat last night I got curious and decided to straight to the horses mouth and looked at the comments on the Telegraph's website.  Dear lord is that a world of entitled hate and fear! It really was quite breathtaking.

It's pretty much the same anywhere on the internet where either accounts are just throwaway, or the community size means there's little chance of encountering the same person twice.

Anyhoo...when poor Bradley discovers he's the standing white passenger, and there's nothing he can do about it...ooofft. Big, macho tears.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tiplodocus 22 October, 2018, 11:18:28 PM
That was fantastic. Plus it looked like they spent a fortune on it.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 22 October, 2018, 11:27:39 PM
Plus it looked like they spent a fortune on it.

It really did. An amazing job of dressing South Africa to look like '50s Alabama, someone (possibly several someones) really should be getting a BAFTA (possibly several BAFTAs). 
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Adrian Bamforth 23 October, 2018, 07:55:15 AM
Much as I've admired Steven Moffatt's writing, going back to Press Gang, I always suspected that most young viewers were tuning out the convoluted twisty stuff to get to the monsters, while the classic series was usually too drawn out and boring, essentially made for the fans with the meaning conveyed in overly fast monologue. RTD also set in motion the tradition of everything becoming increasingly epic and increasingly meaningless

I'm really appreciating the new (old) style to the show, made like regular drama, the subdued music, the anonymity of The Doctor and de-emphasising of the stock companion role.

What the show needs though is not necessarily many more twists (though one per show would be nice) but some sense of moral dilemma. Educational as it was, it was obvious that this week we were going to learn that racism is bad, though we missed an opportunity to explore what might create or normalise racism, perhaps with a villain who was sympathetic, who thought they were being morally kind in some way, or underwent a journey. The series villains have been unimpressive and thin gruel so far. Hopefully more ambitious writers will be work well, 'reigned in' under the new regime.

Also, I have to disagree with everyone about Bradley Walsh; he really doesn't seem to be a very good, or interesting actor to watch.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tiplodocus 23 October, 2018, 10:31:00 AM
I can see the point; weedy villain was something I thought.

But I genuinely was shocked at seeing the whole segregation laid out so clearly in a prime time family show.

It reminded me of the start of "Saving Private Ryan". I guess, deep down, I'd always known what concentrated machine gun fire does to humans. But when someone lays it out explicitly in front of you, it wakes you up a little bit more. Regardless of how it comes to be, people need reminding not to let it come back.

(I don't feel examining the origins of this racism would particularly work in a family show. So what we got, for a genuine bit of history, worked for me)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Bolt-01 23 October, 2018, 10:42:16 AM
Personally I think they could have excised the villain entirely.

Simply have the doc inadvertantly cause an issue with the bus driver causing him to be off work before they realise who he is and the part he has to play in the drama. Rest of the episode spent trying to put it right in time.

However, I reckon Ryan has set up a villain for the future...

: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 23 October, 2018, 11:47:03 AM
The human baddie was underdeveloped and generally underwhelming alright, but I think that's because he was an obstacle rather than a villain (no prizes for guessing what the 'villain' actually was) - it would have been a shame to come out of this episode thinking "finally, a really great new wholly original dastardly adversary for the Doctor!" instead of "bloody hell, human societies can be more evil than anything we've ever seen on this show". 

Instead they just dropped in an average guy with previously-established elements (Stormcage, the Vortex Manipulator*), so that he was as unoriginal and unobtrusive as possible. The menace of segregation and wider parallels for racist thinking were foregrounded, in the same way that Rosa remained firmly the hero of the piece, with the four main characters just resetting things back to 'normal' (and learning things in the process).  As Bolt says, you could probably have dispensed with a baddie altogether, but it worked for me, and may set things up for the future.

Incidentally, I'm not sure perpetuating racism was Crasca's goal - I thought it was more a general push back against the roots of a liberal progressive culture that landed him in (the universe's least secure) prison (for murder).  But I may be projecting a bit there.



*I've no real problem with Crasca not using his non-lethal time gadgets to remove Rosa and MLK etc. from the scene entirely, since if most SF was to exploit the technological capacities it gives its characters, all conflict would be resolved by dropping large rocks on each other's planets and that would get boring.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: sheridan 23 October, 2018, 12:56:08 PM
Personally I think they could have excised the villain entirely.

Simply have the doc inadvertantly cause an issue with the bus driver causing him to be off work before they realise who he is and the part he has to play in the drama. Rest of the episode spent trying to put it right in time.

However, I reckon Ryan has set up a villain for the future...


Villain has device which sends foes into far future.


Villain gets sent far into the future by said device.


Of course they're going to be back!


(watch me eat my words if they aren't!)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 23 October, 2018, 01:26:56 PM
I thought the villain had been sent into the distant past and was presuming that his meddling would then go on to cause problems later in the series, probably with some jeapoardy directly affecting the present day companions.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 23 October, 2018, 01:44:18 PM
For the record, it's "Krasko" 😉
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 23 October, 2018, 02:06:57 PM
Yeah, he was definitely sent into the distant past, as evinced by Ryan's dialogue as he shot him, which amounted to something along the lines of 'If you like the past so much why don't you stay there?'.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: von Boom 23 October, 2018, 03:48:05 PM
There were some seriously dramatic moments in this episode. The cop was very menacing and Bradley Walsh's face at the end was a mask of perfect disbelieving horror.

Krisko, or whatever his name was, was terrible. His motivation felt completely pointless and tacked on. How can civil rights make him a criminal several thousand years in the future? It would have made much more sense if one of the companions had made Parks miss the bus at first, and then had to somehow clean up the mess.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Richard 23 October, 2018, 11:02:08 PM
You must not have been paying attention. He was a criminal because he murdered 2,000 people.

If one of the companions had made Rosa miss the bus, then a stupid accident like that would be much less dramatic than having an antagonist who is trying to thwart them while they try to beat him. I'd rather watch the episode they actually made.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Adrian Bamforth 24 October, 2018, 03:33:52 PM
Yeah I think The Doctor has already been too complicit in the problems he's been trying to solve relatively recently; if it's possible to unravel the Matt Smith storyline I'm pretty sure the Universe would be safer without him or the Tardis. Also, it would make it essentially Back to the Future, which no everyone is a big fan of (there, I've said it).
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 24 October, 2018, 04:54:47 PM
His motivation felt completely pointless and tacked on. How can civil rights make him a criminal several thousand years in the future?

While I thought he was a really poor villain, isn't that about the level of thought applied by such people. 'I committed a crime but it must all be someone else's fault, especially someone who doesn't look or act like me'.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Jim_Campbell 24 October, 2018, 05:09:41 PM
How can civil rights make him a criminal several thousand years in the future?

He specifically says “This is where it all started to go wrong”. One can fairly infer from what he says that his crime was some kind of race hate crime that would never have happened (been ‘necessary’ in his view, I imagine) if all the black people had been kept in their proper place to start with. Whilst, yes, this sounds pretty simplistic, as Taryn notes — if you’ve ever spoken to (or had to listen to) a racist, pinning complex issues on simplistic causes is pretty much their entire schtick.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: von Boom 24 October, 2018, 05:10:37 PM
His motivation felt completely pointless and tacked on. How can civil rights make him a criminal several thousand years in the future?

While I thought he was a really poor villain, isn't that about the level of thought applied by such people. 'I committed a crime but it must all be someone else's fault, especially someone who doesn't look or act like me'.
Then why didn't go back and kill Moses to keep him from getting the 10 Commandments? None of that pesky 'Thou shalt not kill' business to deal with then.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: von Boom 24 October, 2018, 05:12:45 PM
How can civil rights make him a criminal several thousand years in the future?

He specifically says “This is where it all started to go wrong”. One can fairly infer from what he says that his crime was some kind of race hate crime that would never have happened (been ‘necessary’ in his view, I imagine) if all the black people had been kept in their proper place to start with. Whilst, yes, this sounds pretty simplistic, as Taryn notes — if you’ve ever spoken to (or had to listen to) a racist, pinning complex issues on simplistic causes is pretty much their entire schtick.
Quit poking holes in my bubble. It's nice and quiet in here.

I guess I've never really bothered to listen to racists. I just roll my eyes and move on.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: wedgeski 25 October, 2018, 09:49:44 AM
I haven't watched the third episode yet but overall I'm liking the new series a lot. It looks and sounds amazing (new theme tune excluded -- just doesn't do it for me; for best version, see Tenant era), and everyone in it is great. JW nails it from the first scene.

The first 10 minutes of ep1 were superbly creepy, although it did degenerate into standard Whovian running and jumping by the end. Then once again, first half of ep2, top class, before all the running and the shooting brought it back down to mediocrity.

Overall, very excited for more.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 28 October, 2018, 08:08:06 PM
Spiders this week.
Not as strong as last week’s episode but still very enjoyable and, I would imagine, suitably scary for youngsters.
I thought the resolution was a bit quick and under explained but I liked seeing The Doctor’s reaction to an antagonist who didn’t listen to her. The killing of the spider was a really good scene. I wonder if the American guy will be a recurring character.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 28 October, 2018, 08:09:42 PM
It felt very rushed at the end. Also, I'm not convinced that the American wasn't right here. From what I can tell, they wanted to, what, get the spiders all down into the panic room so they'd starve to death? That doesn't sound overly humane.

Strong character moments though. Promising in a general sense, too. Here's hoping JW sticks around for a while.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 28 October, 2018, 08:11:21 PM
Good grief, someone write a story,  please!  Lots of good stuff this week,  but it all just drifted around aimlessly and then...  stopped.  Effects were really good, the Doctor,  Graham and Ryan were fun,  Yaz still pretty dull (dull family didn't help), the very annoying President Draper had unrealised potential (no doubt we'll see him again, but that's no excuse), and scientist lady was completely hopeless.

For the sake of some kind ending,  could the Doc not have brought the spiders back to the Carboniferous so they could breath?  Could Yaz (and her Dad) not have started an investigation into the  illegal dumping?  Anything really,  other than everyone wandering off and the gang drifting back to the TARDIS.

Just give me a damn plot Next Week,  please.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 28 October, 2018, 08:17:39 PM
Three thoughts on this weeks Doctor Who, the third of which ties the first two points together:

The visualisation of the time vortex was absolutely amazing, almost like the sort of thing you see used as illustrations of String Theory. It might well be the best visualisation of the vortex we've ever had in the show, so more of this please.

If you're doing a story about giant spiders, having them be the result of toxic waste is just about the most hackneyed explanation you could possibly go for. There was an enormous sense of 'that'll do' about that script, like Chibnall decided to do a story about giant spiders and never actually added anything further to the idea than 'there are giant spiders'.

These two points seem to be re-occurring ones week by week; that the aesthetic choices being made are spot-on in every instant, yet the scripts are lacking. For every single special effect or music score which hits the mark, there's this lingering sense that they're helping to prop up some very average scripts.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 28 October, 2018, 09:40:18 PM
Hit the nail on the head there, Taryn old girl. There was a moment this week when the great mass of characters arrived in the kitchen, and it felt like everyone was wondering just what they were all supposed to be doing there: as you say,  giant spiders,  and...?  I'd have settled for the Racnoss by the end of it.

All the more annoying because I'm really enjoying every other aspect of this season, the dynamic of Doctor and the gang in particular.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 29 October, 2018, 07:56:53 AM
Despite the sea change of those involved, Doctor Who still has the biggest problem since it returned (and something shared by most TV): the lack of a really good script editor with power. Interesting also that the best episode of this current run was only co-written by the showrunner.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tiplodocus 29 October, 2018, 08:07:06 AM
Fizzled out, that did.

It was a series of "and then" instead of "But then".

Even when they did a "But then" (but then dozens of spiders takedown the corridor towards Ryan and Graham...), NOTHING ACTUALLY HAPPENED. They just ran into the next scene.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 29 October, 2018, 09:07:21 PM
Fizzled out, that did.

Exactly that. A bit like episode two. Really good premise and set up that just didn't get the landing it deserved.

That said the kids bloody loved it and the one thing I will say (well okay one of the numerous things probably) is it does feel like 45 minutes of good straightforward children's entertainment. Something it was no longer feeling like to me before I drifted off.

The kids were in turn terrified and thrilled. As an adult it didn't quite have enough to it...

...well except glorious Sheffield. So much glorious Sheffield and I'm pretty sure if you look like really, really really closely you'll see me and my work colleagues watching that being filmed from our office window... what do you mean "Stop hammering on about Sheffield"... its for everyone's own good to see our wonderful city so well presented.

Another thing. At first I was a bit put off by how uncommanding The Doctor was at a couple of points. When the Trumpalogue was telling them how he was going to sort things his way and no one was going to stop him I was just waiting for The Doctor to put the heebeejebeebs on him... but they didn't instead they looked a little uncomfortable and that felt out of whack me...

...and then it didn't. Doctor 13th doesn't have the surety, that often boarders on arrogance (well often goes into full blown arrogance and then some) of previous Doctors. In part I find that unsettling, but as they keep saying they haven't quite found themselves yet and this adds quite a refreshing level of vulnerability... at times... while at others they seems as in command as any previous incarnations and this sense of someone still in flux is interesting... for now... but again they need to stick the landing...
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: von Boom 31 October, 2018, 01:22:53 PM
Big Spiders. Neo-Trumpian villain. Lots of rushing about, shrieking, and lamenting. What was the plot again?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: sheridan 31 October, 2018, 03:35:38 PM
Should have ended on Metebelis Three...
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: von Boom 31 October, 2018, 04:03:01 PM
You're not the only one to think that sheridan.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Proudhuff 31 October, 2018, 05:32:13 PM
on the strength of this thread I'll avoid the spiders one  :thumbsup:
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Richard 01 November, 2018, 12:08:35 AM
Only one of the spiders would have starved to death. All of the others would have been eaten by other spiders. Like the American said, it would have been kinder to shoot them all.

I hope we see him again in the future, as president. Also, he hates Trump, so he can't be all bad.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: von Boom 01 November, 2018, 12:21:14 AM
I hope we see him again in the future, as president. Also, he hates Trump, so he can't be all bad.
Stalin hated Hitler, so make of that what you will.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 02 November, 2018, 10:18:14 AM
Word is going round on the interweb that there may be no more Christmas specials for Doctor Who. Apparently they've run out of themed ideas. How much of that is true, I don't know, but honestly, I'm not upset by this news. While some will inevitably see this as another nail in the coffin for having a female lead, I've been bemoaning how stale the Christmas night line up on BBC 1 has been. For so many, many years, I haven't needed a tv guide to tell me the line up will be Doctor Who, Strictly, Call The Midwife, EastEnders and Mrs Brown's Boys. That line up hasn't changed in years and it's boring. I think a shake-up is definitely needed. The last few specials have been pretty piss poor, in my humble opinion.
Talk is that the Doctor Who special will air around New Year, which will not only free it from the usual Christmas trappings, but will possibly allow it to fare better in the ratings.

Change, my dear - and it seems not a moment to soon.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 02 November, 2018, 10:24:48 AM
If the X-Mas Specials end it'd be no lose. They have been poor for quite some time.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 02 November, 2018, 10:26:01 AM
The last one I enjoyed was 2014's "Last Christmas"
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 02 November, 2018, 11:58:23 AM
I really like the idea of there being something 'special' on TV on Xmas Day - not just repeats, the Queen or films I've already seen. It doesn't have to be Doctor Who though - a sitcom fits the Xmas special format far better (a shame they don't make any decent sitcoms these days). A new year special would be great though.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Richard 03 November, 2018, 01:58:08 PM
I don't see why an episode should have to have a Xmas theme just because that's when it's on.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 03 November, 2018, 06:44:34 PM
Call me old fashioned but I like a Christmas special to be Christmassy. It has to be said the Doctor Who Christmas specials were becoming less Christmas themed as they went on...
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 04 November, 2018, 07:38:26 PM
Well, I'm not loving this one. Aside from some terribly clunky dialogue, I can't take the situation seriously when there's a chubby little gremlin on the loose and a ridiculous performance from a pregnant man. The tone is generally played straight, but it's all so silly. I was really hoping for a decent villain/monster after a several weak ones, but this is just too silly and the episode is not holding my attention at all.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 04 November, 2018, 07:58:46 PM
Have to say that it somehow managed to lack tension. The scenario seemed to warent tension but somehow it didn't materialise. Don't think it was to do with the beastie just don't think it was generated by the cast somehow...

Shame as it looked great and again had some good ideas and moments.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: BPP 04 November, 2018, 08:13:29 PM
Well now we know what the cybermen fear.

It is somewhat enjoyable that they are trolling the folk who object to a female doctor. Male Pregnancy, female warrior role models, lengthy discourse on single parenting and absentee dads. Next weeks monster - English Colonialism!

The Scooby gang don’t really ‘work’ for me - just too many of them and chirping on the same beats. The same sort of problem they had when Rory joined in. Whereas Nardole and Bill were very different characters.

: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 04 November, 2018, 08:46:22 PM
So, this weeks Doctor Who:

If we were looking at that one objectively then there was nothing really wrong with it, but that's about as faint a praise as one can offer a story. Doctor Who can be many things and be them successfully. It can be complicated, educational, silly, surreal, over-the-top, philosophical, base-under-siege, etc, but it should never be banal.

This weeks episode offered absolutely nothing worth responding to, in fact it felt exactly like one of those slot-filler episodes you would get in an American sci-fi series when they're having to make 22 episodes a year; 'Little gremlin runs around eating the spaceship'. Yawn.

When you're starting off from a banal idea, it's damn near disastrous to then be utterly predictable as well, but, alas, I had worked out both the manner of the resolution (flush the damn thing out an airlock) and the means through which it would be achieved. Not a good thing when it takes fifty minutes for the characters to reach that conclusion.

Yaz literally spent the first third of the story standing around saying nothing. Of the three companions she continues to be the most overlooked and it's a damn shame. Nyssa didn't deserve that treatment and neither does Yaz.

It's becoming increasingly obvious that while Chris Chibnall is a very good showrunner, he is a desperately disappointing head writer, his scripts never failing to be competent but never succeeding in rising any higher than that.

On a more positive note I think Jodie Whittaker is becoming the most adept of the Doctor's when it comes to displaying wonder at her environment. She just seems to be able to perfectly articulate this sense of absolute joy which is such a key part of the Doctor's character. It's just such a shame that she's having to drag these scripts up by the bootlaces in order to reach her level.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tiplodocus 04 November, 2018, 09:12:59 PM
Slight but it entertained me. Doctor vs. Nibbler. And I like the family vibe from the companions.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 04 November, 2018, 09:29:00 PM
I enjoyed it, with a few reservations.

Positives: we got a bit more of an insight into this Doctor; killing Astor(?) was a nice shock; I thought the set design was impressive; the guest cast was uniformly good; the pregnancy and Ryan and Graham's interactions were a good laugh; the alien was an amusing little design; and I greatly enjoyed the Doctor's non-violent resolution (fill his little tummy and send him on his way). 

Negatives: the companions looked bored and passive a lot of the time, often killing the tension - the pacing of Yaz and Ryan's conversation in particular was ludicrously bad - ambling around, hands in pockets, pausing for a bit of sympathy - lazy, lazy writing; the rather cool android/consort did essentially nothing (especially as he could have been a target for the energy-hungry alien); the teleporting-you-home thing was stupidly anticlimactic, and the Doctor's predicament at potentially losing the TARDIS again amounted to a keep-them-away-from-it-for-an-hour device.

I do like the three companions, but they really need to find something for them all to do each episode, instead of having them hang back in a group commenting like a Greek chorus.  Ryan and Graham are consistently good when they get scenes together, but that quality seldom has much to do with the plot, beyond working through their relationship and shared loss. Hopefully Yaz gets some development next week, because she's starting to bore me.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Adrian Bamforth 05 November, 2018, 01:29:02 AM
Haven't watched this week's yet but how much teleporting can we take? It reminds me of the recent Star Trek sequel where villains were able to teleport themselves between planets, thereby eliminating those pesky 'spaceship' and 'trekking' elements.

1. Villain is teleported away. Doctor teleports them all into space.
2. Villain is a hologram who appears and disappears (with his tent!). He teleports the pilots off the planet in the end.
3. Ryan teleports villain into the past.
5. People teleported home, apparently.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Jim_Campbell 05 November, 2018, 08:17:42 AM
3. Ryan teleports villain into the past.

That’s not teleportation.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 05 November, 2018, 08:36:29 AM
This episode seemed aimed towards the younger viewers.
I thought it was fine but had its problems - I won't bother listed them as that's been done already.
I really liked the little alien though. Again, I have a feeling we'll see the alien again. I don't know if we're heading towards some sort of end-of-series Royal Rumble but that's what it feels like to me.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: von Boom 06 November, 2018, 02:27:23 PM
The Doctor encountered space Gizmo post midnight feeding. At least they didn't get it wet. Not a terribly engaging story. Bradley Walsh is still my hero for this series so far.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mattofthespurs 08 November, 2018, 09:36:24 AM
Generally I've liked this series of Doctor Who...

But that latest episode was bloody awful.

Just really, really bad.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 11 November, 2018, 07:58:39 PM
Well lows followed by highs it is.

Thought that was bloomin' great. Timely and moving. Thought Jodie Whitaker was superb.

: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 11 November, 2018, 08:09:56 PM
Well that was pretty cool!  I'm not sure it did much to make Yaz herself any more interesting (her family  certainly!), but it was definitely stronger writing this week,  engaging and exciting, and educational (if simplistic,  but hey, family TV).  Do they teach this stuff in UK schools much?  They certainly didn't here,  but the murder of Mountbatten's party in Sligo put the partition of India firmly into awareness all the same.

If I had a real complaint, it was the continued general passivity of the gang - Graham got some more emotional stuff to do,  but would anyone have noticed if Ryan wasn't there? Again, a lot of standing around witnessing rather than doing, heightened by being in an episode about witnessing.

Some very minor niggles, such as wondering why Yaz was back in Sheffield so soon after the Spider episode (we've already established time isn't passing at a consistent rate back home, so no rush for Nana's birthday), why no-one noticed the holy man had been shot with a .33 rifle, and why we missed the fun opportunity of re-introducing the Dr to the older Umbreen.

On the positives, great cast, Prem and Umbreen(s) were terrific and quite compelling, Granada looked awesome,  the idea of the stream border was evocative,  alien design and effects were very cool,  and the Dr's glee at her juryrigged chemistry set was fun. And Prem's big speech had a nice dig at Brexit, if I'm not mistaken.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: BPP 11 November, 2018, 08:20:14 PM
I don’t think anyone can fault the messsage in that and some of the acting was great but structurally it was pretty stodgid stuff - after 15 minutes there was no threat. The observers were a nice idea but maybe there could have been an actual enemy rather than ‘oh fate, it all has to play out Make India Great Again.’

Part of the problem again is too many side kicks not opening up the room for the ancillary characters needed for tension and action.  Can only imagine kids were bored silly (cue twitter parents claiming how their kids loved it).

10 for intention
5 for execution.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 11 November, 2018, 08:26:37 PM
Heh, quick poll reveals my kids did love it! Well, one love and one like. Daughter really loved the poignant doomed wedding, son enjoyed learning about partition and the historical resonsnce with the creation of Israel, which we'd been discussing at length on a hike earlier today.

You're right though, the sidekicks are becoming a problem - the guest characters in this one, and last week's too, were really strong, but fighting for space with the companions who are largely just hanging around. It's better than everything being about one sexy companion, her family problems and her unrequited love for the Doctor, but still... While I really like the idea of a large gang,  I don't think they're being used well.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 11 November, 2018, 08:48:29 PM
I'm not the deep analysis type of reviewer as some others may be on here, but all I wanted to say was - that was superb! An excellent episode and a welcome upturn in quality after last week's clunker. I even got a little teary towards the end, and there better be a series 11 soundtrack by Segun Akinola available at some point!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 11 November, 2018, 09:06:39 PM
That was probably the best episode of the series thus far. For the first time this year we had an alien species that was actually interesting. It's such a lovely idea to have a species who travel the stars lamenting the unmourned dead, and such an ideal fit for today's events in the real world. Not sure if that was deliberately timed, but it worked beautifully regardless.

It was another Hartnell-esque historical for much of the run time. The Sci-Fi elements were fairly light, the plot favouring the drama of the situation more than the alien visitors. Once again, as in 'Rosa', I learned a fair amount about a historical period I previously knew very little about, so, yes, very Hartnell-esque again.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the best episode of the series so far also happens to be the first one not to be written by Chris Chibnall. That remains something of a worry.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 11 November, 2018, 09:37:18 PM
I thought it was great. Not a dry eye in this house. That ending packed a wallop. And, yes, the two best episodes so far have had other writers. I hope CC gets better, although he only has one more episode in this run anyway.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: M.I.K. 11 November, 2018, 10:42:52 PM
Some very minor niggles, such as wondering why Yaz was back in Sheffield so soon after the Spider episode (we've already established time isn't passing at a consistent rate back home, so no rush for Nana's birthday)

It was a flashback.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 12 November, 2018, 12:56:01 AM
Some very minor niggles, such as wondering why Yaz was back in Sheffield so soon after the Spider episode (we've already established time isn't passing at a consistent rate back home, so no rush for Nana's birthday)

It was a flashback.

In one of the scenes, okay. In the opening scene she received the watch as a present, then in the end scene she knew its history - so she visited Sheffield at least once during the timeframe of the episode.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: M.I.K. 12 November, 2018, 02:52:29 AM
I can't discount the possibility that I may have merely assumed it was a flashback so that it made a bit more sense within the narrative.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tiplodocus 12 November, 2018, 10:03:27 AM
Loved that.

Mournful Aliens should think more about their brand image though.

Yes, in any given episode, one of the companions seems doomed to be a spate wheel but Graham preparing Prem for the ceremony bought a tear to my glass eye.

And, how many Doctor Who fans are going to have the Doctor's speech as their wedding vows?

Cue outdated jokes about them all being geeks who can't get married due to being socially awkward.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 12 November, 2018, 10:29:22 AM
...but Graham preparing Prem for the ceremony bought a tear to my glass eye.

That was powerful stuff alright, Bradley is MVP for me this series. I confess I was hoping the Doc would pull an "everybody lives! " and whisk Prem away with some timey-wimey sleight of hand, I think he could have made a fun companion.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 12 November, 2018, 11:38:32 AM
The end was a proper gut punch. Rare and pretty brave stuff.

As for the series as a whole, it's also rather handy for weeding out fuckwits. Loads of OH MY GOD SJW WHO online right now, and people bleating that it shouldn't be a history lesson. It's almost as if they haven't watched any Doctor Who before, and only have a vague understanding what the show's about. (The nadir was perhaps some "we love the 1980s account" on Twitter bellyaching that Baker was his favourite Doctor and he never did this kind of thing. THE. DALEKS. ARE. NAZIS. This isn't hard!)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Jim_Campbell 12 November, 2018, 11:45:32 AM
Loads of OH MY GOD SJW WHO online right now, and people bleating that it shouldn't be a history lesson.

Somebody on twitter rather sharply noted the lack of previous outrage at Victorian England episodes, the Shakespeare episode, the Pompeii episode… just the Rosa Parks and Indian Partition episodes. Funny, that.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 12 November, 2018, 12:24:27 PM
I've been trying to work out what the SJW dimension of the partition of India, and this episode, actually is (Rosa Parks I totally get). It uses a simplified but reasonably solid snapshot of a historical catastrophe as a background for a fairly standard star-crossed-lovers why-can't-we-all-just-get-along tragedy, with added aliens: like many Dr Who stories before it.

I can't see any direct reference to the usual topics that so upset the definitely-not-snowflakes brigade. It doesn't really even wag the finger too severely at Britain (for example, wartime hunger is alluded to, but no reference to the horrific engineered famine on the far side of the country only 5 years earlier), beyond observing the inescapable facts.

Is it really 'another SJW nightmare' for them just because because most of the participants are non-white Muslims and Hindus, and they appear to be ordinary people? I think it's exactly that.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: CalHab 12 November, 2018, 12:39:52 PM
There was criticism of the handling of the partition by Mountbatten et al. That hardly seems controversial, unless you're some sort of Niall Ferguson-type revisionist.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 12 November, 2018, 12:59:18 PM
Is it really 'another SJW nightmare' for them just because because most of the participants are non-white Muslims and Hindus, and they appear to be ordinary people?
Or that they are there at all. Also: women. There are quite a few of them. The show multiple times per episode passes the Bechdel Test. Clearly, that is not on either. Or something.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 12 November, 2018, 01:19:01 PM
There was criticism of the handling of the partition by Mountbatten et al. That hardly seems controversial, unless you're some sort of Niall Ferguson-type revisionist.

Indeed,  but the criticism was mainly a statement of simple fact - it was a mismanaged disaster - rather than getting into the attitudes behind it, or even the history of the Raj itself.  There can't be any argument about that,  surely?

I thought the things that (supposedly) enraged them were issues of identity and any moral, emotional or philosophical input into the strictly rational matters of policy, economics and the (cough) meritocracy. If "these people did this and then that happened" is now 'Social Justice Warrior' territory, what's left?

Obviously I'm aware that these are not their concerns at all,  and never were, but it's interesting to see the usual suspects attacking something for literally no other discernible reason than that it involves non-whites and women. Interesting too to see umbrage taken with a plot most famously employed by that pillar of western (and English) cultural superiority, Shakespeare.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Professor Bear 12 November, 2018, 08:36:41 PM
Well behind the curve as ever, I only just watched the Rosa episode.  Geez, that was cringey.
The racism felt comically broad, like it was literally the only thing some characters had in their lives, like that racist bus driver guy and before you say AHA HE WAS ALSO A KEEN FISHERMAN SO RACISM WAS NOT THE ONLY THING IN HIS LIFE he couldn't even do a fishing without being racist, and when he learned there wasn't going to be any racism on his bus route that evening he had to drop everything to go be racist on his bus, and then when he found out that his bus got duffed-up, his only consolation was knowing black people were going to be put out.
Did the original script have the English grandad character have to pretend to be the bus driver or something?  It seems like there was a lot of setup for just that eventuality.
I feel the characters they meet in the show each week could have more complete stories or even just have rounded personalities rather than archetypes, but Rosa in this was just a cypher rather than a person - she'd show up or someone would say her name and then that tune would play like she was Jesus or something.  Who kind of feels like a slow, dull version of the incredibly stupid Legends of Tomorrow so far.  Have you ever seen legends of Tomorrow?  "Stupid" barely covers it, and John Constantine is in it now.  They have an original TARDIS console in the middle of their control room and nobody says anything, not even Rory.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Bad City Blue 13 November, 2018, 09:23:46 AM
you are definitely in a minority with that opinion.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Dandontdare 13 November, 2018, 01:14:01 PM
I'm finding the current series dull, preachy and over-simplistic. Whittaker's and Walsh's skills are just about keeping it afloat, but the writing is very poor IMO. Where are the surprises, the grand concepts, the narrative twists, the doctor's ingenious plans, the multiverse-spanning cosmic stuff? The latest was better written, but it still essentially boiled down to the Doctor & Co arriving, having the plot explained to them, and then watching it happen. Ending these episodes with mawkish sentimental music instead of the theme tune feels manipulative rather than moving.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 13 November, 2018, 01:41:55 PM
Weren't the "grand concepts, the narrative twists, the doctor's ingenious plans, the multiverse-spanning cosmic stuff" the things everyone got sick to death off during Moffat's run? Personally, I still hope the writing from Chibnall will improve, but I very much enjoyed the episodes he didn't write, and thought his were at least serviceable. Give it time, I suppose. The kids seem to be back into it, and although people might gripe about the Pting, remember RTD served up farting Slitheen and deadly… wheelie bins.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 13 November, 2018, 01:47:23 PM
Was the Pting the little gremlin? I thought he was great, even if the episode wasn't.

I thought Demons of the Punjab was decent enough. The strongest scenes were the emotional ones (Bradley Walsh ahead of the wedding) but the aliens seemed a bit shoe-horned in. It wasn't anywhere near as good as Rosa but I'm still enjoying the series overall.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Jim_Campbell 13 November, 2018, 01:56:15 PM
remember RTD served up farting Slitheen and deadly… wheelie bins.

Paving. Slab. Blow. Job.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 13 November, 2018, 02:28:38 PM
remember RTD served up farting Slitheen and deadly… wheelie bins.

Paving. Slab. Blow. Job.

With Moaning Myrtle no less. And in Tennant's much-loved first season as well,  IIRC. We're so far away from that nadir that it's hardly the same show.

There's a lot to be said for these current more self-contained more grounded* episodes, but...  I know we're an even longer way now from the pre-Ecclestone days, but I still see a problem with trying to cover too much in single episode stories.

If you're trying to establish a new setting,  introduce new characters and offer them a role and a resolution, develop multiple companions, give them and the Doctor something memorable to do, have a good bit of running and general peril, AND create and dispatch an original alien threat to underpin it all ... It seems like a lot to do,  and inevitably some aspect is going to feel barely sketched out or tacked on. No other show on telly tries to do what NuWho tries, and I wonder if two-part stories would allow a little more room to write more substantial elements.

*Not a paving slab joke.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Professor Bear 13 November, 2018, 02:32:39 PM
They managed that balancing act over 5 seasons of Sliders - every episode was a winner.

you are definitely in a minority with that opinion.

Oh no this has never happened before.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Dandontdare 13 November, 2018, 02:42:15 PM
I can't fault their logic - they were losing younger viewers at an alarming rate, and decided to go back to a much simpler kids-TV format. Sound business decision, and I'm sure it's popular with families.

Maybe multi part stories would work better, or simply stop trying to do so much, just do the basic things well.

... the things everyone got sick to death off during Moffat's run?
Not me - personally, I loved all those complicated plots, but I'm getting the sort of enjoyment from this season I used to get from Sarah Jane Adventures - enjoyable, but very conscious that it's not aimed at me as an adult, whereas previous seasons had enough action, laughs and scares to keep the younger ones involved, with deeper layers of plot for the adults.

These are the best sort of "family" shows - jokes for the grown-ups that sail over the wee 'uns heads, but without them noticing or spoiling their enjoyment. I used to watch Dr Who and other movies and read comics where I had no clue about the subtleties of what was really going on, but I understood enough to get the gist through context, and I loved them, but would have run a mile from a "children's" movie.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 13 November, 2018, 02:45:08 PM
"not aimed at me as an adult"

Perhaps, but the last one had two adults in this house with 'something in their eyes' afterwards. (Mini-IP's too young for Who.)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Jim_Campbell 13 November, 2018, 03:01:47 PM
Maybe multi part stories would work better

As I understand it, market research shows that 'kids' hate them. Much like adverts that you can't fast-forward through, the idea of the TV schedule as you and I might think of it is pretty much alien to people under a certain age.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 13 November, 2018, 03:38:41 PM
That's what I figured, but it's a pity.  And TBH Dr Who is the only new broadcast TV we follow in our house. Other TV is random repeats of Simpsons, Horrible Histories and Nickelodeon dross, and the occasional wildlife doc.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Dandontdare 13 November, 2018, 04:13:31 PM
whilst I'm on a gripe, thank the Lord for catch up TV - apart from the debut, I've only remembered that it's on and I've missed it sometime late Sunday evening - every bloody week! I'm just not used to looking for it on a Sunday.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: von Boom 13 November, 2018, 04:17:22 PM
The best episode of this series so far. Yaz and Ryan proved themselves to be pointless once more, while Bradley Walsh's manly tears was probably the most emotional scene I've seen on DW for some time. Nearly in the ending of An Adventure in Space and Time territory.

The space pallbearers were interesting to look at. It would make a good story to go back and see what they were like when they were actually assassins.

I hope they can at least keep it this interesting for the rest of the series.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: auxlen 13 November, 2018, 06:17:03 PM
Had to stop watching...was originally into the idea of a female DR (mainly for the male companions) and no-one wanting to shag the DR for one ---yes rose and Karen gillians character I'm talking to you)..but seriously...i have not cringed since Tennant's Timmy Mallett tie debacle on the girl  :o in the fireplace. unsubscribe.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 13 November, 2018, 08:20:25 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but what's the "Timmy Mallet tie debacle" problem with Girl in the Fireplace? That's one of my absolute favourite NuWhos, and not just because Sophia Myles is staggeringly gorgeous in it (honest).
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 13 November, 2018, 08:40:25 PM
Does Timmy Mallet wear ties? I thought he was more of a shorts and t-shirt man.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tiplodocus 13 November, 2018, 09:43:16 PM
He favours a really, really small two piece bathing costume  named after a Pacific atoll doesn't he? Assuming it's a primary colour (But not red or blue) and has black spots on it too.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 13 November, 2018, 09:47:18 PM
I see what you did there, and the resulting earworm and disturbingly sharply remembered video imagery is not appreciated.  Why is some of my very limited storage capacity filled with this sort of thing, and not something useful (like Prog numbers for specific Future Shocks, for example),
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Frank 14 November, 2018, 09:17:26 AM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dr7OlZUX4AI6EzI.jpg:small)


: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Proudhuff 17 November, 2018, 04:50:17 PM
remember RTD served up farting Slitheen and deadly… wheelie bins.

Paving. Slab. Blow. Job.

I have no idea what this refers to...should I know?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Jim_Campbell 17 November, 2018, 05:00:58 PM
I have no idea what this refers to...should I know?

“It’s a relationship, of sorts, but we manage. We’ve even got a bit of a love life.”

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--etRThW7Q--/c_fill,fl_progressive,g_center,h_900,q_80,w_1600/18lp3s54cbki8jpg.jpg)

("Love & Monsters" — S2E10 of Nu Who)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: M.I.K. 17 November, 2018, 05:27:10 PM
Made even more inappropriate by the fact that it was also an episode featuring a creature designed by a child who'd won a competition on Blue Peter, (intended to be gigantic and terrifying, but portrayed in the programme by Peter Kay).
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 17 November, 2018, 06:54:32 PM
I have no idea what this refers to...should I know?

“It’s a relationship, of sorts, but we manage. We’ve even got a bit of a love life.”

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--etRThW7Q--/c_fill,fl_progressive,g_center,h_900,q_80,w_1600/18lp3s54cbki8jpg.jpg)

("Love & Monsters" — S2E10 of Nu Who)

Yeah but...you would though, wouldn’t you?  :lol:
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 17 November, 2018, 09:37:09 PM
Yeah, but would you?  I mean she's supposed to be his girlfriend, but WTF is she getting out of it?  It's either a rather disturbing view of a woman's role in a romantic relationship, or it's basically Deep Throat remade for a tween audience.  I believe the usual phrase is "poor taste", but given the circumstances, I think we'll settle for "badly judged".

(I accept the counter argument that it could be meant to show that people with physical disabilities can have meaningful sexual relationships, but the overriding comedy twang of the whole episode makes it impossible for me to agree).
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Leigh S 18 November, 2018, 09:24:02 AM
Only caught up with last weeks yesterday, but I thought it was once again a vast improvement.  I personally was sick to the back teeth of Universe ending/rewriting EPIC before Moffatt took over, let alone in the debris left behind after he had left.  Having smaller stakes makes this feel the most it has done to the 70s Who I fell in love with since Eccleston.  Once again, my wife nailed the biggest problem (No big fan of Who previous, she liked the Eccleston stuff, but she gave up watching with me shortly into Moffatt).  She has been enjoying these ones, really enjoyed the story of this latest one, but some of the acting really knocks the wind out of it - being a fan of the odl series, the only shonky acting that is grating for me is Ryan, but she had a point about some of the spporting cast here too
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 18 November, 2018, 02:45:55 PM
I'm fine on the acting, and like the smaller scale stuff. The big battles never really work, and RTD managed to unravel all his fine work pretty quickly in that manner. Having the Doctor terrified of a single Dalek was a superb moment of television. Having him then up against billions of Daleks and winning the day, or Cybermen at every doorstep, or (etc.) just started to grate. Moffat was little better in this regard, even when he attempted to soft-reboot by sending the Doctor into the shadows.

I suspect we'll still get the odd major event, but I got very tired of the god-like Doctor, basically saying "don't you know who I am?" to thwart an alien invasion. Having a Doctor who is actually vulnerable and a little unsure, but still confident, smart and quietly bonkers, seems a smart way to shift the show. And, sure, the script editing is still bloody awful, but then that's modern telly all over, right the way up to even the likes of Game of Thrones. (In fact, I'm struggling to think of more than a handful of modern shows that nail this aspect. Fargo, for sure. The canned Dirk Gently, mostly. Any more?)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Leigh S 18 November, 2018, 04:19:55 PM
It would have been nice, arguably better, to have removed the aliens all together from this one - will they ever have the gumption to do that - I see there's a Witch finder episode coming up - if you need aliens to make an episode about that exciting, you are definitely doing something wrong....
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: von Boom 18 November, 2018, 04:44:44 PM
They needed the aliens in order to tell the Doctor what was actually happening. Both she and her sonic screwdriver missed the fact that the holy man had been shot.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 18 November, 2018, 07:29:01 PM
We've had a couple of Hartnell stories this series, but that was the first McCoy story we've been given. I could easily imagine 'Kerblam' appearing alongside the likes of 'Paradise Towers' and 'The Happiness Patrol', while the robots were very reminiscent of 'The Greatest Show in the Galaxy'.

Killer Bubble Wrap is pretty much the entire history of Doctor Who, so it's nice to see it actually getting acknowledged on screen.  :P

I really liked the fact that Yaz wanted to find the warehouse workers daughter in order to return her Father's necklace. That moment felt like a continuation of this series attempts at making life actually seem worth something (with a few exceptions, such as the security guard in the first episode). More often than not the warehouse workers death would just have been glossed over, so it's nice to see the characters acknowledging such occurrences. Doctor Who does have something of an unfortunate history in terms of disposable characters sacrificing their lives in order to save the main characters, even without any apparent motivation, so it matters that Yaz wanted to find his daughter and acknowledge his death.

All things considered though, that was another average episode. There really wasn't anything wrong with it - everything it did it did competently - but it's also very hard to imagine wanting to sit down and watch 'Kerblam' again for any reason other than a complete watch-through of the series.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 18 November, 2018, 08:05:58 PM
Yeah, that was fine. Would have been nice to have had a scene with the worker’s kid (show not tell). Feels like they didn’t have the money to match their ambition this week. Also: abrupt, weirdly edited ending. Man, do they need better script editors.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 18 November, 2018, 08:23:14 PM
I'll admit I didn't have very high expectations for this episode but it turned out better than I thought it would. Possibly the most traditional episode this series so far.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 18 November, 2018, 08:52:29 PM
I thought that was loads of fun! There were lots of funny little nuggets. Loved that The Doctor had ordered a fez. Loved the bit about hiding in alcoves. Just good, fun family telly.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 18 November, 2018, 08:57:21 PM
Also: abrupt, weirdly edited ending. Man, do they need better script editors.

Yeah, that was very strange. It felt as though we were meant to be waiting for something to happen, only it didn't; almost as though a special effect hadn't worked so the cast were just left standing for a little too long.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 18 November, 2018, 09:07:16 PM
I'll admit I didn't have very high expectations for this episode but it turned out better than I thought it would. Possibly the most traditional episode this series so far.

Funnily enough I kinda agree and that exposed its biggest problem for me. Love the story, the execution was so rushed nothing felt fully formed. It had enough twists and turns and potential cliffhangers to make an old school  4 parter (or more). That way the tension would have had more time to build, the villian had a more formed motivation and all those cooridors could have well and truly been run down.

As it was great ideas ruined by being rushed...

... mind more importantly the kids LOVED it and were well and truly spooked by the robots and that's what really matters.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 18 November, 2018, 11:12:29 PM
From what I hear, kids all over are back into the show in a big way, and so it’s got that right. And I still adore the new theme and intro sequence.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Dudley 19 November, 2018, 06:10:43 AM
I'm still a few episodes behind, but can I just declare my love for Chibnall? No idiotic playing with time travel concepts too large to satisfactorily do in 45 minutes, no love saves the day shenanigans, no massive overarching continuity that leaves my kids puzzled and annoyed... just an odd, intellectual, kind hero with a box that means they can have an adventure at any time, and in any place. And some friends who allow for explanations of the complicated stuff. The doctor is for kids again, thank goodness.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Robin Low 19 November, 2018, 06:38:51 PM
Yeah, but would you?  I mean she's supposed to be his girlfriend, but WTF is she getting out of it?  It's either a rather disturbing view of a woman's role in a romantic relationship, or it's basically Deep Throat remade for a tween audience.  I believe the usual phrase is "poor taste", but given the circumstances, I think we'll settle for "badly judged".

(I accept the counter argument that it could be meant to show that people with physical disabilities can have meaningful sexual relationships, but the overriding comedy twang of the whole episode makes it impossible for me to agree).

Maybe they just kiss?

Despite the naff monster, I quite liked that episode. I thought it was far kinder and affectionate to Doctor Who fans than some of them deserve.

And then there's Jeff Lynne and the Electric Light Orchestra. Coz you can't beat a bit of ELO.

Regards,

Robin
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Leigh S 19 November, 2018, 06:47:45 PM
Kerblam! was another decent story - again more reminiscent of 70s Who for this old codger,  But, yes, script editing aint what it used to be.

Main issue, why did the Dr set the robots to blow up the bubblewrap?  The robots weren't a risk? Surely, it would have made massively more sense that the kid had set the robots to do that, thus A: ensuring the bubble wrap detonated and B: making the robots directly to blame? 

Having the Dr get them to set it off made zero sense!  It could have been more dramatic as well - the Doctor thinks she has fixed it by setting them to deliver back to the hangar, then all the robots start opening the parcels....
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 19 November, 2018, 07:03:44 PM
Maybe they just kiss?

"We've even got a bit of a love life", says Elton, with the slab resting on his lap.
"Oh let's not go into that", says Ursula.

Hmmm.  You're a more charitable man than I, Mr. Low!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Dandontdare 19 November, 2018, 07:10:03 PM
Each episode of this series seems to start off with a good concept, but once they've got that in the bag, they haven't apparently wasted any further effort on the storytelling. Usual template is that the Dr & Co arrive, get told the plot and then watch events unfold, with a bit of running and screwdriver action along the way. Okay, maybe the old stories were a little too complicated, but I think it's doing the kids a disservice to say they can't follow any timey-wimey twists and have to have things dumbed down to this level. I thought this one was better than most, more depth to the story, less mawkish and with more agency by the principals, but still felt a little thin (but I'm not a kid, so I know I'm not the target audience. That didn't seem to matter before, but is very noticeable now).

The new music has grown on me - I love that dropped beat in the intro just before the woo-woos kick in.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 19 November, 2018, 07:23:05 PM
Main issue
Yep to all of that. And it's precisely the sort of thing a good script editor should be sorting out.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: BPP 20 November, 2018, 01:16:25 AM
Good bits

The theme tune
The fez
The robots
The robots 1.0
The straight up murdering that girl.

Bad bits
Ryan - possibly the most boring voice on television
The doctor being assigned cleaning duty
The waste of Lee Mack
The ‘I only had one present once’ thing.
The suit on the not-bad-guy-guy (could only have been less subtle if it said Wrong Un #misdirection on the back)
The oh so busy packing line that wasn’t busy at all.
The belt jump (lols at 80s kids tv level effect)
The pauses to talk about feelings (every bloody week)
The random firing lasers to destroy organic matter (nobody heard of targeting?)
The doctor blowing up all the robots for no reason
The absolute waste of the sinister robots
Oh yeah...

...Hold on, the lesson of this was that the algorithm / capitalism was ‘innocent’ and that humans driven to protest low employment economies were evil murderers. What?

Bonus points for the company shutting for 4 weeks (yeah, right) but the workers getting 2 weeks paid holiday. Guess that’s meant to be generous. Here, have 2 weeks involuntary unemployment. And then back to never seeing their families again. What?

There was a semblance of a good story here, some great design work, a potential for a great new foe and they threw it all away on more bad uninteresting Scooby gang stuff (she needs to leave them at home) and some very wonky thought out plotting.

And you know, Amazon IS evil.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 20 November, 2018, 01:53:25 PM
It's increasingly hard to enjoy this series in isolation. YouTube, despite my efforts to massage its view of my tastes using the methods outlined upthread, keeps serving up out-and-out racists with opinions on Dr Who.  Today it was Bowlestrek,  who spent 10 minutes ranting about Whitaker being a "racist and sexist" the BBC's "category hires", and how The Tsuranga Conundrum is by far the worst Who episode ever (I'd love to see his definition of 'ever' - it's not even the worst episode this season), before dismissing Demons of the Punjab as a deliberate attempt to replace Britain's culture with a different and wholely incompatible one (whether he meant Hindu or Muslim, or maybe Indian or Pakistani,  he didn't say - probably because he doesn't see any difference: they're all brown,  aren't they? ).

I wonder if he knows the episode is set in 1947, after those 'incompatible cultures' had been exploited as the source of Britain's wealth for 200 years, had just made a huge contribution to winning two World Wars, and before they had become an integral, even definitive, part of British culture over the succeeding 70 years.

It really makes it hard to be critical of what is a flawed show, when it's pissing off the kind of people I would happily see locked up for incitement to hatred. Yes,  yes,  I'm part of the problem,  got the memo thanks.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mister Pops 20 November, 2018, 02:48:28 PM
YouTube, despite my efforts to massage its view of my tastes ...


....Today it was Bowlestrek,  who spent 10 minutes ranting ...

I think I know why your efforts aren't working
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 20 November, 2018, 02:58:31 PM
Yes, it's my fault for watching at all and feeding the click economy (acknowledged that in my previous post), but it's hard to ignore literally rows of thumbnails of hate. Everytime I get one, I ask not to get any more from that channel and on that topic and give my reason. And tomorrow there's another selection (plus anti-ST Discovery and anti-TLJ Vids... Hmm,  what do they have in common?) overwhelming the stuff I do want to watch.

Hence my whine that it's hard to enjoy - or judge - the show in isolation. It exists in a monetized warzone. The only option seems to be to stick my fingers in my ears and leave the shits to rant unopposed, and claim overwhelming consensus. It's not exactly a pleasant idea.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Proudhuff 20 November, 2018, 06:31:54 PM
I'm so glad this is the only corner of the internet pool I chose to pee in dip my toe in.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Robin Low 20 November, 2018, 07:02:53 PM
Maybe they just kiss?

"We've even got a bit of a love life", says Elton, with the slab resting on his lap.
"Oh let's not go into that", says Ursula.

Hmmm.  You're a more charitable man than I, Mr. Low!

Well, they probably do both, to be honest.

You do raise a fair question about what she gets out of it. Probably not a lot a physically. But, you know, she's loved. She's a face on a slab of concrete, and he still loves her and wants to be with her. And I think it's pretty clear he's a mates-for-life kind of geek. Whether that compensates for also being a convenient hole, I dunno. Need to ask for a woman's perpsective.

That's said, I like a sequel where she gets her body back. And more ELO. Maybe some Jethro Tull, too.

Regards,

Robin
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Proudhuff 21 November, 2018, 12:59:55 PM
Not watched that episode on on the strength that its poisoned by 70s prog rock...I'll give it a miss.
next it will be BTO...

(https://images.ecosia.org/-yfi_jgxwCyuzxjxIH3RrqPd9jw=/0x390/smart/http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Nt34afKtFVw%2FUtJflfWQHGI%2FAAAAAAAAAio%2FQEBiytV5tpA%2Fs1600%2Fsmashie%2Bnicey.jpg)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mattofthespurs 21 November, 2018, 03:39:45 PM
Desperately wanted to enjoy the new Who series but apart from the first episode I've found almost the whole thing dreadful.

The only 3 things I like are; Whitaker, Walsh and the opening credits/theme tune.

But the most annoying thing about Kerblam! was the over use of the sonic screwdriver. I wish that was all.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: von Boom 21 November, 2018, 04:31:09 PM
Desperately wanted to enjoy the new Who series but apart from the first episode I've found almost the whole thing dreadful.

The only 3 things I like are; Walsh, the opening credits/theme tune and Whitaker.

But the most annoying thing about Kerblam! was the over use of the sonic screwdriver. I wish that was all.
Put that in the correct order for you. :)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: The Enigmatic Dr X 21 November, 2018, 05:44:34 PM
Lifelong fan. Can't be arsed with it after three episodes
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: wedgeski 22 November, 2018, 09:22:05 AM
The Kerblam! episode was mediocre in that very specific way that Who is often mediocre: a daft and uninteresting script carried by the actors, with the occasional decent laugh. Bradley Walsh continues to surprise and impress, though.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: CalHab 22 November, 2018, 11:35:29 AM
I thought the ideas were there to make a good episode, they just weren't optimised or assembled correctly.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: shaolin_monkey 22 November, 2018, 12:36:23 PM
Anyone with any issue with the acting should hark back to old-school who, where pretty much everyone except the Doctor couldn't bloody act. Even Sarah Jane! There were some right old hams in it.  Stones of Blood is a good example - that old woman was straight out of am-dram!

Not that I could do any better for either old or new Who. Just reminding everyone that nostalgia is definitely rose-tinted.


Anyway, thoroughly enjoying the new series except for the first episode which was an utter shambles.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Trout 22 November, 2018, 03:11:55 PM
Lifelong fan. Can't be arsed with it after three episodes

Yeah. I was really excited for this series but it's losing me. Whittaker is cool but I'm just bored by the whole thing. My kids still want to watch it, kind of, so I'll stick with it, but it takes us a few days (and in one case, more than a week) to get around to watching an episode. It's just so slow.

I feel guilty now. For years, I've ranted at people who are critical of Who and told them it's just not for them any more. Now, it seems, it's not for me either. Ah well.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Adrian Bamforth 22 November, 2018, 05:01:02 PM
Just reminding everyone that nostalgia is definitely rose-tinted.

(http://www.impulsegamer.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Rose-Tyler-doctor-whos-companions-4976358-1024-768-620x350.jpg)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 22 November, 2018, 05:25:39 PM
Heh!  I've been moved in an unreformed male-gaze objectifying way to consider how I seem to rate previous NuWho companions in an inverse relationship with how attractive I find them: the prettiest of the lot was Clara, but probably ended up as my least favourite companion, while at the other end of the spectrum we have Donna, probably my favourite, but not quite the dependable visual treat of Martha or Amy.  Rose is somewhere down the 'good companion' end of the spectrum too.

I didn't watch enough of later Capaldi era to have an opinion on Bill and Nardole, but Rory and Mickey don't really buck the trend.

Sexist and unworthy thoughts to be sure, but still good news for Bradley Walsh! 
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: BPP 22 November, 2018, 05:31:22 PM
Nardole was the best by a country mile.

Make of that what you will.

: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mattofthespurs 22 November, 2018, 05:47:17 PM
I liked Nardole and Bill...A lot.

That last Capaldi season was fun.

This season seems...Well, the fun has gone.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Robin Low 22 November, 2018, 07:13:22 PM
After getting behind with several shows, we've made the effort to watch this season on the night. On the whole we've enjoyed it. It's not had an outstanding episode so far, although it's had a couple of worthy ones.

I like having three other people in the Tardis, as I liked Amy and Rory and Nardole and Bill. It works better with a crew. Where it fails is this need to tell a story an episode. There's no room for characters to do the whole get caught, escape, get caught again thing, which on one hand might be regarded as tedious, but on the other does allow time for character interaction and interesting mucking about.

There's also the problem that if you close your eyes and listen to the Doctor's words, despite being in a woman's voice pretty much all those words could be put into any other of the nuWho Doctors' mouths and you'd never know the difference. That's a weakness in the writing. Matt Smith and Capaldi could overcome that by sheer force of performance, but Whittaker is only fine. A friend of mine at work likes her because she reminds him of Tennant's Doctor... but while I liked him at the time, Smith and Capaldi's Doctors outshone him.

I have no problem with Whittaker or a female Doctor, but she's gonna have to push the people in charge if she wants to get to be a great Doctor. The writers in particular need to understand that the Doctor has to be more than someone who speaks fast and points a cyberwand dramatically.

Regards,

Robin
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tiplodocus 22 November, 2018, 07:23:41 PM
I enjoy it but a lot of it comes from thinking "I bet this is good for the kids without all of those tortuous, continuity heavy three season long arcs. And there's some accessible history and ethics in there for them too". Which may not be the case.

It should be a family show though, not a kids show.

Again, though, none of the problems stem from the Doctor not having a penis.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 25 November, 2018, 07:26:56 PM
Tonight's was enjoyable - creepy in places, and Alan Cummings was good value. Though it pains me to say it, part of its success was that the companions were lsrgely sidelined, apart from some dodgy Are You Being Served humour at Ryan's expense. Again they felt like observers rather than participants, but it wasn't as much of an issue because they weren't using up much of the runtime.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 25 November, 2018, 07:48:02 PM
Pretty good, and the kids loved it.

It was going great guns and was creepy as heck. That I got a little dishearten when it just turned out to be another generic alien invasion type thingie... but you know what it held together and just about got away with that.

It was interesting listening to the kids in the car today with a couple of their friends absolutely enthusing about the show. So for all the mind aged hand wringing going on in some parts it seems to be finding its core audience.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 25 November, 2018, 07:49:57 PM
That's likely the first time Berwick has ever been mentioned in a televised episode of Doctor Who, so...score one for the home team.  :D (I live ten minutes from Berwick, so this was as exciting as seeing Sheffield was to some of you.)

The Doctor was being a little bit dense in key moments of that story. It was incredibly foolish of her to be openly wielding the sonic screwdriver during a witch hunt; what else were they going to think it was other than a wand? She was a bit slow on picking up on the tree being the lock for the prison, when it had already been made pretty clear.

On the whole, however, a pretty solid episode. Nothing earth-shattering (no pun intended considering, you know, killer mud) but a perfectly acceptable pseudo-historical. Next weeks looks pretty interesting though.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: M.I.K. 25 November, 2018, 08:12:38 PM
That's likely the first time Berwick has ever been mentioned in a televised episode of Doctor Who, so...score one for the home team.  :D (I live ten minutes from Berwick, so this was as exciting as seeing Sheffield was to some of you.)

Sorry to potentially burst your Berwicky bubble, but I think it needs pointed out that King James VI/I was likely referring to North Berwick (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Berwick_witch_trials), and not Berwick-Upon-Tweed.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 25 November, 2018, 08:15:52 PM
That's likely the first time Berwick has ever been mentioned in a televised episode of Doctor Who, so...score one for the home team.  :D (I live ten minutes from Berwick, so this was as exciting as seeing Sheffield was to some of you.)

Sorry to potentially burst your Berwicky bubble, but I think it needs pointed out that King James VI/I was likely referring to North Berwick (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Berwick_witch_trials), and not Berwick-Upon-Tweed.

Ah, that would make more sense, but let's not let a little thing like the facts get in the way. It is 2018, after all.  :lol:
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: BPP 25 November, 2018, 10:33:28 PM
Lots to enjoy in this, notably the creepy stuff (which was filmed well at the start but by the end became a bit drama student extra pawing around in the background) and Alan Cummings (king James for Doctors assistant). However the Doctor herself was pretty crap and again way too preachy (the whole bullying stuff) and the villains got rid of far too quickly.

The real problem - ‘this fire will be a weapon’ - what? Why? and ‘I’ve activated the lock’ - what? Why? How?

In a sense it suffere from too much and too many people stuffed in and no actual explaination or reasoning. The doctor very much suffers from turn up, pull a face, wave a wand, say let’s be friends then press a button and all is done. If this whole storyline had been done over 2 epsoides there could have been so so much more from the very decent set up and the excellent campy Cummings.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 25 November, 2018, 11:53:42 PM
Agree with BPP 100% - all this episode needed to be great (rather than fine) was a second part. Give these setups room to breathe, please! If nothing else it has to be cheaper.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 26 November, 2018, 06:07:34 AM
I’m not convinced they need to switch to two parters.
If you watch the average episode of something like Star Trek TNG, they fit a lot of story in 45mins.
I think part of the problem is that they spend too long setting up the premise and too long explaining a resolution which is almost always pretty straight forward (wave a wand or press a button). I wonder how a framing device similar to Star Trek would work - maybe have a voice over from one of the companions at the beginning or end to get all the exposition out quickly?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 26 November, 2018, 07:44:47 AM
Again: they need better script editors.

Still, if the rumours are true (and I hope they are not), Chibbers and Whittaker alike will be gone by the end of next year, and we’ll get another soft reboot.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tiplodocus 26 November, 2018, 09:28:34 AM
Ok but far from great. Even Alan Cumming couldn't wring much out of that.

It's coasting on the goodwill I have towards Doctor Who at the moment. Best episodes have been the ones with the historic high stakes.

Take those out of a script and the writers just can't seem to get any drama out of the situations or the dynamic of the team in the tardis.

Surely having some of the team doubting the Doctor or thinking they know better would add some frisson. At the moment, Doctor just seems to doubt herself which, while initially refreshing, actually is a bit crap. Come on writers!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tiplodocus 26 November, 2018, 12:36:43 PM
Of course, everyone else I talk to who has kids between 6 and 14 is loving it.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 26 November, 2018, 02:49:32 PM
If you watch the average episode of something like Star Trek TNG, they fit a lot of story in 45mins.

That's a good point. And more characters to juggle too. Interesting to think about what the differences are.

Something like the 3rd season's Ensigns of Command,  where Data has to convince colonists to evacuate rather than try to fight the Sheliak, could easily be a Dr Who episode. But for some reason I'm mainly finding myself thinking of terrible episodes that would fit the Who model (crew visits alien culture or human outpost, has to solve problem that arises, usually external): The Royale, Planet of the Joggers (aka Justice), Angel One, The Survivors, Devil's Due. A grim list!

Wracking my brain, there are definitely some good ones along these lines:  First Contact (the episode, not the movie), Silicon Avatar, Darmok, Time's Arrow (a two-parter!)... I'm sure there are others, but what strikes me us how many episodes revolve around established races, violent conflicts and individual crew relationships and backstories, shipboard tech problems and the conflict of military matters and morality.

The actual current Who-type episode model of "introduce new setting - new characters - new problem - companion roles/development - Dr agency - solution and moral" seem surprisingly rare, particularly if you want the episode to be good. So many TNG episodes use familiar settings (the ship) and established-character-based stories (Federation admirals/corruption, Lwaxana,  Q,  Worf & the Klingons, Data's quest for humanity etc) that it makes me think that the one-off-play is a hard trick to pull off.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 26 November, 2018, 03:54:49 PM
You could think of the Tardis as the Enterprise, The Doctor as Picard and the companions as assorted crewmembers.
In which case it would make sense to have certain episodes be very focussed on a particular character (as with TNG you definitely get Riker episodes, Picard episodes, Crusher episodes etc). And maybe to have more episodes based In-Tardis. The Tardis is one of the most underexplored elements of the show.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 26 November, 2018, 04:12:14 PM
I'd agree there too - but it sort-of makes my point: the "new setting, new characters, new problem, new solution" model appears to be hard to do in a single episode, so why not have a mix of two-parters that have time to explore a new setup with one-offs that use leaner plots, based around the TARDIS, familiar enemy or Companion-based stories? 

I accept that the audience may not have an interest in two-parters, and that's obviously key, but I look at Demons of the Punjab or the Witchfinders and think how much better it would have been if the alien element could have been developed rather than feeling like an afterthought with a hand-waved solution. The good bits in Witchfinders, the fey James I, the menacing 'zombie witches', the family conflict between manor and village, could all have used the space that the 'alien prison' gubbins took up, whereas if the latter had been fleshed-out the concept of land 'improvements' freeing evil spirits from an ancient prison could have been used to strike all sorts of folkloric notes.  We could even have had time for the Doc reminisce about how many of James' ancestors and descendants she's been pally with (his aunt and his grandad for a start).

Maybe a really good script editor could make all this fly in 45 minutes, but so far I don't see one.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Robin Low 26 November, 2018, 06:30:47 PM
I quite liked it... but I was left thinking there were at least two moments that would have been good cliff-hangers in old-Who. You could have had three episodes that developed the story and characters.

Regards,

Robin
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mattofthespurs 26 November, 2018, 09:34:01 PM
Finally...An episode I, we, really enjoyed.

I started off thinking 'Inside No 9' did this better but it was really good fun.

The right balance of danger, comedy and just darn good fun.

I liked that one. The best so far as far as this household is concerned.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: von Boom 27 November, 2018, 04:31:03 PM
A very good episode all around. The Doctor is still asking too many questions and not figuring enough out for herself, but we all need answers quickly in the one episode/one story format. It was funny to see that she was treated like a woman the way a woman would be treated in the 17th century and how she coped.

Alan Cummings was excellent as KJ VI/I. The villains were suitably creepy and forceful, if a little one note (We will conquer/kill you all blah blah blah).

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't hear the Doctor cite Clarke when she referenced his third law at the end. I think he should have, but I'm a bit of a Clarke fan so take that as you will.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 27 November, 2018, 05:37:43 PM
Yeah, she just did the "a great man said" bit, which is a bit poor, when Tarantino got name-checked for something he didn't even write himself in the same scene.  Ace did mention him and the Third Law by name in that quite crappy Morgaine/Excalibur/Brigadier story where Sophie Aldred was infamously nearly electrocuted on set, so the Doctor certainly knows whose law it is...

Heh, I'm just remembering watching that episode on broadcast with a bunch of friends just before we all started college. A different life!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Link Prime 27 November, 2018, 06:04:18 PM
I'm just remembering watching that episode on broadcast with a bunch of friends just before we all started college. A different life!

Same cardigan.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 27 November, 2018, 06:05:49 PM
I'm just remembering watching that episode on broadcast with a bunch of friends just before we all started college. A different life!

Same cardigan.

Different hair, that's for sure.

I give out about the Whohaters of the internet, but if we'd livestreamed our McCoy-era watching sessions, it would have been ten times worse: we were tiring of the whole thing even faster than the Beeb was.  IIRC I think the only things we liked about the Excalibur one were the Brigadier (last appearance?) and Bessie.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Link Prime 27 November, 2018, 06:06:33 PM
 :lol:
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tjm86 27 November, 2018, 08:19:52 PM

Different hair, that's for sure.


FTFY
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 27 November, 2018, 09:13:11 PM

Different hair, that's for sure.


FTFY

I thought I'd found all the spy cams.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Dandontdare 28 November, 2018, 03:12:13 PM
My favourite of the season so far. It could still be improved by slightly more complex/twisty plots and a more take-chargey Doctor, but at least this week I didn't know exactly what was going to happen from halfway in.

I may have local bias - you can see Pendle Hill* from my mum's garden (one of my schoolmates' families has lived in Whalley, near Pendle for generations - his mum complained when one of the local souvenir shops was selling a Pendle Witches tea towel that listed her ancestor as being among the women convicted - when in fact she was one of the few that were acquitted. She kicked up a fuss and made them withdraw it)


*one of those place names that has evolved and actually means hill-hill-hill
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: BPP 28 November, 2018, 04:26:19 PM
My favourite of the season so far. It could still be improved by slightly more complex/twisty plots and a more take-chargey Doctor, but at least this week I didn't know exactly what was going to happen from halfway in.

I may have local bias - you can see Pendle Hill* from my mum's garden (one of my schoolmates' families has lived in Whalley, near Pendle for generations - his mum complained when one of the local souvenir shops was selling a Pendle Witches tea towel that listed her ancestor as being among the women convicted - when in fact she was one of the few that were acquitted. She kicked up a fuss and made them withdraw it)


*one of those place names that has evolved and actually means hill-hill-hill


Take that mr evil corporate small village tea towel vendor!

.... and I thought Twitter was bad.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Proudhuff 28 November, 2018, 04:33:47 PM
My favourite of the season so far. It could still be improved by slightly more complex/twisty plots and a more take-chargey Doctor, but at least this week I didn't know exactly what was going to happen from halfway in.

I may have local bias - you can see Pendle Hill* from my mum's garden (one of my schoolmates' families has lived in Whalley, near Pendle for generations - his mum complained when one of the local souvenir shops was selling a Pendle Witches tea towel that listed her ancestor as being among the women convicted - when in fact she was one of the few that were acquitted. She kicked up a fuss and made them withdraw it)


*one of those place names that has evolved and actually means hill-hill-hill

Local towels for local people!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Proudhuff 29 November, 2018, 01:16:51 PM
That's likely the first time Berwick has ever been mentioned in a televised episode of Doctor Who, so...score one for the home team.  :D (I live ten minutes from Berwick, so this was as exciting as seeing Sheffield was to some of you.)

Sorry to potentially burst your Berwicky bubble, but I think it needs pointed out that King James VI/I was likely referring to North Berwick (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Berwick_witch_trials), and not Berwick-Upon-Tweed.

EEEK! I missed that  :o

 never mind its where I live, but 'The "witches" held their covens on the Auld Kirk Green, part of the modern-day North Berwick Harbour area'  is at the end of my street!

Also Cumming's  aunt and cousins live in the town  :D
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: M.I.K. 29 November, 2018, 06:40:26 PM
EEEK! I missed that  :o

 never mind its where I live, but 'The "witches" held their covens on the Auld Kirk Green, part of the modern-day North Berwick Harbour area'  is at the end of my street!

Also Cumming's  aunt and cousins live in the town  :D

So does my brother, and the wifey wumman accused of being the 'elder witch' at North Berwick, (Agnes Sampson), lived just down the road from me.

There's a field and plantation near here that's officially known as the "Witches Syke", which may be due to her living nearby or could be because of some other witchy types unrelated to the North Berwick trials. The Lothians used to be crawling with them, the wrongly accused and otherwise. Most folk are oblivious.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Hawkmumbler 30 November, 2018, 03:09:22 PM
Prince James absolutely stole the show in The Witchfinders. Best guest star in a story for years.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 30 November, 2018, 03:14:20 PM
He really was (King James to you, though!).
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 02 December, 2018, 07:23:41 PM
Good grief. Who the hell signed off on that frog. Decent enough story, but badly screwed by a single crappy effect. Seriously have to ask what was going on there.

And why Norway? Were they going for a Norse myth svartheim/hel thing and then changed their minds? Dearie me.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Modern Panther 02 December, 2018, 07:35:46 PM
"Your nan and me always wanted to go to Norway"

"Why didn't you?"

The correct answer is "we couldn't affjord it".  Anything else is a waste of dialogue.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 02 December, 2018, 07:43:46 PM
And the 13th Doctor has her first genuine classic episode!

After weeks of dispiritingly surface level stories, in which everything has been exactly what it appeared to be and plot twists have been almost entirely absent, we finally...finally...have an episode with depth. At almost every turn 'It Takes You Away' subverted its own expectations, jumping from apparent base-under-siege, to alien world, to parallel universe, and finally on to something altogether different. In the case of 'The Tsuranga Conundrum' I had both major plot points worked out a full half hour before the story ended. This time, I didn't have a clue what was going to happen next, and that was so refreshing after the comparative banality of the rest of this series.

Not only that but there was actual thematic depth to the story as well; the conscious universe cast out from the rest of existence, the blind girl taken away from her friends in the city and apparently abandoned by her father, the grieving husbands drifting from their former lives following the loss of their partners, all of which serve almost as mirrors to the character of the Doctor herself.

It's just a bit concerning that we're back to a Chibnall episode next week (though an extra point for the 'Slayer' reference).
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 02 December, 2018, 07:56:21 PM
Yep thought that was superb, rubbish frog or not. Genuninely creepy at first. Then superbly intriguing and brilliant by the end.

Best to date...

... Alas I don't think the kids agree. They liked it but were a bit confused... damnit can't bloody win!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 02 December, 2018, 08:01:03 PM
That was absolutely mental and I loved it.
I thought the frog was the best bit - it was utterly charming - or to put it another way ‘it is a form that delights me!’
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 02 December, 2018, 08:04:52 PM
Should say I thought the idea of the frog was a piece of genius. It was the special effects only that let it down.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 02 December, 2018, 08:20:14 PM
Should say I thought the idea of the frog was a piece of genius. It was the special effects only that let it down.

This is Doctor Who we’re talking about.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 02 December, 2018, 09:04:18 PM
I'll try to get my head round a talking frog on a chair... it's been 38 years and I'm still getting my head round a talking cactus.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 02 December, 2018, 09:40:56 PM
Frog-on-chair was a great idea, but honestly, it's 2018, do better than whatever that was supposed to be.  I thought it turned a clever episode into a skit on shit Dr Who effects.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Dandontdare 03 December, 2018, 08:48:28 AM
After weeks of dispiritingly surface level stories, in which everything has been exactly what it appeared to be and plot twists have been almost entirely absent, we finally...finally...have an episode with depth.

^^^This.

I'm encouraged by any episode that starts "Written by: (anyone but Chibnall)". And what was wrong with the frog? looked fine to me.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Steve Green 03 December, 2018, 10:15:21 AM
For a series that promoted it wanting to look 'filmic' with new lenses etc.

It looked a bit low-budget, something more like classic Who would come up with.

Doing lip-sync on something that small is hard work, on Men in Black they did a great 'small' alien but it was an oversized prop.

The other options are to shoot a real one, and just do it as telepathy, a CGI one, or a mixture.

I know there was the connection to the necklace, but just a glowing triangle would have worked, and mirrored the shape of the attic.

Compared to the moths, it looked pretty rough.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 03 December, 2018, 11:15:28 AM
From where I was sitting,  it looked like it had a totally static lower jaw that just hinged up and down. Lip-sync on animals whose mouths aren't designed to talk is obviously incredibly tricky,  as countless examples have shown. So if you see that you can can't pull it off, why bother?  Why not telepathy? 

I'm banging on about this frog too much, I know, and I've certainly enjoyed SF (and Dr Who) with far worse SFX - but it seems a pity. The 'baddie' being a sentient universe that ends up as a frog because Graham knew that Grace liked frogs is a neat idea, and one hell of cut above 'toxic waste makes big spiders'. It seems a shame to undercut that with an effect that's not a significant improvement on Posh Paws.

On other matters,  I did enjoy the Doctor chomping on soil, and the flesh moths were ace. Ryan got a bit of a chance to shine this week, and really... didn't.  Yaz was barely in it, but came across as refreshingly competent, and as usual Graham was top banana: being lost in time and space while lost in his own head is working really well.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 03 December, 2018, 12:56:50 PM
A part of me was hoping that Ribbons would become a temporary companion.
I often think that about villains I like.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Steve Green 03 December, 2018, 12:59:02 PM
The other option is to go the other way, a puppet that Grace as a kid that she kept.

Someone posted a picture of Kiki from Hector's House on twitter - something like that would have worked, in a stay-puft way.

Or even Granny 5, some sweet old Time-lady in a last-ditch attempt to hook the doctor, like there's some desperate attempts to keep her there.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 03 December, 2018, 01:31:35 PM
If we don't get to meet Granny 5 at some point I'm going to be very disappointed. Loved that bit.

Speaking of Grannies, I was surprised how much of an impact fake Grace had on me - the original was barely in the show,  and yet I deeply and personally resented this impostor. That's a strong character.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Hawkmumbler 03 December, 2018, 04:08:22 PM
Frog-On-Chair vs. The Myrka when?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Steve Green 03 December, 2018, 04:18:08 PM
If we don't get to meet Granny 5 at some point I'm going to be very disappointed. Loved that bit.

Speaking of Grannies, I was surprised how much of an impact fake Grace had on me - the original was barely in the show,  and yet I deeply and personally resented this impostor. That's a strong character.

Dead, brain implanted into a robot body, and a 2000 AD crossover called Graniac 5.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tiplodocus 03 December, 2018, 04:43:24 PM
Enjoyed that especially how it morphed into such a mad high concept yet retained the theme of loss vs. abandonment.

Frog didn't bother me as much as Ryan being so useless. He got a hug but more for the "Aw, you lost your Gran" rather than doing anything positive.

Graham's sandwiches also good.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mattofthespurs 03 December, 2018, 05:30:03 PM
Agreed. Decent episode that started poorly but was more than the sum of it's parts by the end.

We enjoyed it.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: BPP 04 December, 2018, 07:44:24 AM
Bad - boring-Ryan, the most boring man in the universe.
Bad - yeah the frog. Why not try and hook the Doctor with something personal?
Bad - TALKING SO TALKILY ABOUT FEELINGS. At this stage it’s a bad joke, character and interactions not demonstrated in the script or acting through the plot but two characters relentlessly talking about their feelings.
Bad - the explaination of the parallel universe was tosh - something so powerful only manifesting now? And defeated so easily. Here’s an elemental force from the beginning of time, go stand beside it in pairs and it blows up.
Bad - the doctor does still seem pretty post-regen dumb. She needs her smarts and knowledge back.
Bad - the music was back trying to tell you SAD BIT HERE in an OTT way.

Good - the horror set up
Good - the mirror
Good - the doctor slightly more proactive
Good - ribbons ( bit Golum but defo gone too soon, his whole realm was interesting)
Good - the flesh-what-a-ya-call-ums and the red light
Good - the blind girls rejection of the alien.
Good - looked really nice (frog excepted)
Good - the shot of the doctor just before meeting the frog - strikingly framed.

Overall a really solid outing.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 04 December, 2018, 09:33:07 AM
Some of it was messy. How did awful dad manage to find his way through the death moths so many times, in the dark? What was Ribbons doing there? It felt a bit like someone said "we need some peril and an alien", when the bridge could have just been spooky and with perilous drops or something. (Hello, again, need for a decent script editor.)

But I enjoyed its crazy nature, the way they dealt with the blind girl, The Doctor, and the overall bonkers nature of the script. As others have said, it was great not knowing what was going to happen, but also it wasn't Moffat-style "let's make this as convoluted as possible".
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: von Boom 04 December, 2018, 02:42:58 PM
This could have been a great Doctor cum Lovecraft episode, but ends up being a limping story of love conquering fear. Again.

The initial set up was quite good and very eerie. Very Jo Nesbo/Dunwich Horror type of vibe. Hannah was wonderful since she realises very early on that Ryan sucks. The whole conscious universe kicks them out line was weak. Hannah should have saved them all by leading them back through the tunnel by her sense of touch once they figured out they'd been trapped by Yog-Sothoth.

The Doctor seems to be an infodump device this series. Need to explain something? The Doctor suddenly remembers. At least when she's not running about claiming 'I don't know' all over the place.

Ryan finally had some redeeming value when he finally called Graham granddad. Now pin his mittens to his sleeves and send him on his way. Ryan's the worst. Except for Yas. She's the worst too.

Was anyone else hoping that Graham would punch Erik squarely on the nose? No. Just me then I guess.

Overall it was a messy, but good episode.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: athorist 05 December, 2018, 12:09:05 AM
The Doctor seems to be an infodump device this series.

Which series are you watching, could you be more specific?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: wedgeski 05 December, 2018, 09:51:19 AM
We thought the sheep moment would've been funnier if the Doctor had stared-down the mammal in question, and then refused to talk about it. Overall, a good and imaginative story with a lot of nonsense that should have been polished before production.

I liked the frog puppet, but the lip sync was very bad, almost as if they changed the dialogue after filming.

The last shot of the Doctor in the cast-off universe, blowing a kiss to the frog, was killer. It was a moment that truly belonged to JW's Doctor.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: shaolin_monkey 05 December, 2018, 03:08:46 PM
The whole episode was as mad as a box of frog.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 09 December, 2018, 07:34:56 PM
(sigh)...Well, that was a Chibnall series finale, wasn't it?

I'd say I was underwhelmed, but my expectations were low to begin with. As it turned out, well...that was simply DREADFUL. Utterly lacking in imagination, completely insipid, almost entirely without emotion, and thoroughly uninvolving. That was almost like watching an episode of Doctor Who written by algorithim. I kept waiting for a plot twist to hit, or an interesting concept to rear it's head. Alas, I'm still waiting.

The main problem with bringing back the Stenza is that he wasn't remotely interesting the first time around. He's a generic killer with zero character. He's not the Weeping Angels, nor he is the Silence. He isn't even the Monks. My heart sank the second he was revealed as the bad guy.

The Stenza's plan involving the five planets was exactly the same...EXACTLY THE SAME...as the one employed by the villains of the Fourth Doctor story 'The Pirate Planet'. The big difference, however, is that 'The Pirate Planet' was written by Douglas Adams, whereas 'The Battle of Racoon Coal (or whatever)' was written by Chris Chibnall.

That episode had absolutely nothing to say. Doctor Who should never, ever, be boring. To be boring is the cardinal sin of Doctor Who. Sadly, we appear to be stuck with a showrunner who can only hit 'boring' at the height of his powers.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 09 December, 2018, 08:00:29 PM
I thought it was pretty good and while Graham's arc 'Be the better man' is a cliche that reading superhero comics has taught me soooo many times Bradley Walsh's performance made it really work well. The rest was entertaining enough though it didn't stand up to close inspection.

Problems... well there are many. I too didn't give too hoots about the Stanza, though I was pretty certian it was coming back and its turn as a false God almost justified it, for a while it looked pretty frightening... until he was defeated... his terrible alien power, this vile scourge of the galaxy... by getting shot in the foot and then falling over. It was Milleresque!

The following false Gods and not yourself was pretty interesting, if at time dealt with a little in ya face... but until the faithful, these poor angels serving an evil master, torn between what was right in their hearts and what the unholy beast they'd be following for 3 1/3 thousand years told them to do. Their almost limitless loyality and devotion was enlighted ... by some stranger telling them they's met him down the pub on Divison Street or summit and pop illusion shattered.

Can't land his ending this Chibnall chap can he.

Oh and don't start me in those trooper bots or whatever they were called. They look really cool and menacing when they are marching purposely but in all other ways are bobbins.

Still somehow it sweep me along happily enough, looked great most the time and The Doc is really working  now. Looking forward to New Year's its the Daleks right? Ill informed speculation tabs there rather than spoilers.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Jim_Campbell 09 December, 2018, 09:29:19 PM
Fundamentally, the problem with this series of Dr Who is that I don’t think Chibnall gives a shit about science fiction. In fact, I think he’s actively contemptuous of it.

If you’re handed one of the BBC’s premier shows and the best thing you can come up with for your FOURTH episode is ”something something giant spiders something toxic waste something something” then you’re obviously not even trying.

An engaging cast is really doing their best but there’s not much they can do with an episode like tonight’s — the ‘series finale’ — when it makes not a lick of sense.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Steve Green 09 December, 2018, 09:30:08 PM
No series next year either, just the New Year's episode...
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 09 December, 2018, 09:47:43 PM
No series next year either, just the New Year's episode...

I think that's still just a rumour doing the rounds at this stage. I'm certainly not aware of any official confirmation of that.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Jim_Campbell 09 December, 2018, 09:53:30 PM
Can’t remember if it was Mike Collins or Patrick Goddard, but one of the droids who works on the show has said they’re already working on the next series, so it doesn’t sound like they’re taking a full year out.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Steve Green 09 December, 2018, 09:59:29 PM
Early 2020

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/entries/89823d93-ca6c-486b-9c82-2a71cd1560bb (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/entries/89823d93-ca6c-486b-9c82-2a71cd1560bb)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 09 December, 2018, 10:08:07 PM
I thought that was loads of fun, a great payoff for the season that shows you can do standalones that still feed into something more cohesive as long as that's based around a bit of character development. Everyone was good this week, especially the Doctor, although Yaz continues to be poorly served in terms of things to do.

There was a chorus of "oh look,  it's the crap robots again!" in our house.

Still wondering if, now they see how this stuff works, they are ever going to try to find all those humans the Stenza stole before Tim Shaw got zapped to nowheresville.

And, err, "Timeless Child", anyone? What was that all about?

Betting on Grendel for New Years Day.

: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 09 December, 2018, 10:34:16 PM
Tordelback, I'm genuinely curious as to what you found fun about that episode. I'm by no means attempting to say you're wrong or criticize you for enjoying something I didn't (the nerve of it  :lol: ), but I couldn't find a single thing about that episode which rose above 'boring', let alone anything I would call fun.

In fact, having given it a bit more thought, I'm genuinely considering that episode as a new entry in my top (or bottom) ten all-time worst episodes of Doctor Who. I loathed everything about it.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Jim_Campbell 09 December, 2018, 10:49:35 PM
In fact, having given it a bit more thought, I'm genuinely considering that episode as a new entry in my top (or bottom) ten all-time worst episodes of Doctor Who. I loathed everything about it.

I’m not sure I’d be that harsh on it, but I’d agree it was terrible — it made literally no sense whatsoever. I’d be happy to keep Whitaker, but Chibnall will kill this show within three years.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 09 December, 2018, 10:55:14 PM
In fact, having given it a bit more thought, I'm genuinely considering that episode as a new entry in my top (or bottom) ten all-time worst episodes of Doctor Who. I loathed everything about it.

I’m not sure I’d be that harsh on it, but I’d agree it was terrible — it made literally no sense whatsoever. I’d be happy to keep Whitaker, but Chibnall will kill this show within three years.

This is new territory for me, as I'm usually the show's biggest cheerleader. Perhaps that's why this one has rubbed me up the wrong way, because it genuinely hurts to see a show I care so much about reduced to this. (And it's entirely the fault of the writing. Jodie Whittaker was as delightful as ever throughout the episode.)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 09 December, 2018, 11:08:43 PM
I liked the determination to free all the prisoners, I liked the weirdness of the Auchs (sp?) pair, I liked seeing Tim Shaw again,  I liked the development of Graham and Ryan's relationship,  I liked Graham's dilemma, I liked the captured miniaturised planets, I liked almost all of the Doctor's monlogues/dialogue. The action felt purposeful, and the story felt like it traded on what we'd seen of the characters over the series.

As usual the logic of the plot was incoherent, the villain caved far too easily, and Yaz had little or nothing to do.  But there was enough entertaining stuff going on that I didn't really mind. I thought it showed the current setup geling nicely, even if much stronger writing would be welcome.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 09 December, 2018, 11:12:56 PM
Fair enough. I probably would have liked the captured miniaturised planets as well, had they not been lifted wholesale from Douglas Adams' Doctor Who.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: sheridan 10 December, 2018, 12:12:53 AM
...but Graham preparing Prem for the ceremony bought a tear to my glass eye.

That was powerful stuff alright, Bradley is MVP for me this series. I confess I was hoping the Doc .


I considered that kind of twist as well - though there may have been bigamy issues if he was still alive...
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: sheridan 10 December, 2018, 12:18:19 AM
Loads of OH MY GOD SJW WHO online right now, and people bleating that it shouldn't be a history lesson.

Somebody on twitter rather sharply noted the lack of previous outrage at Victorian England episodes, the Shakespeare episode, the Pompeii episode… just the Rosa Parks and Indian Partition episodes. Funny, that.


Also the series was intended, right from the very beginning, to be (what is now called) edutainment - going to different historical eras and showing the kids around.  Hence, visits to prehistory, journeying to Cathay with Marco Polo, Aztecs and the French Revoltion.  Kind of went off-track in later series, but the intention was there from the first episode in 1963.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: sheridan 10 December, 2018, 12:48:27 AM
Yes, it's my fault for watching at all and feeding the click economy (acknowledged that in my previous post), but it's hard to ignore literally rows of thumbnails of hate. Everytime I get one, I ask not to get any more from that channel and on that topic and give my reason. And tomorrow there's another selection (plus anti-ST Discovery and anti-TLJ Vids... Hmm,  what do they have in common?) overwhelming the stuff I do want to watch.

Hence my whine that it's hard to enjoy - or judge - the show in isolation. It exists in a monetized warzone. The only option seems to be to stick my fingers in my ears and leave the shits to rant unopposed, and claim overwhelming consensus. It's not exactly a pleasant idea.


Not heard of that B-guy before - couldn't face actually watching any of the vids he'd posted (largely because I'm pretty sure he'd get some money out of me from advert views or something) but did click on the images tab of google and saw the titles of loads of his videos without having to visit youtube.  Yep - he seems to hate all the things I like, and uses pictures of black people and women while ranting about how bad everything is.


I get the same problem with youtube recommendations - anything Star Wars related seems  to have the words "everything wrong with" or similar attached to the vid title, so I don't check out any Star Wars suggestions any more.


Oh, another reason not to follow the B-hating guy - it'd pollute my recommendations even further!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 10 December, 2018, 06:24:39 AM
Betting on Grendel for New Years Day.

Well that Hunter Rose goes bloomin' get everywhere...
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 10 December, 2018, 07:35:04 AM
Fair enough. I probably would have liked the captured miniaturised planets as well, had they not been lifted wholesale from Douglas Adams' Doctor Who.

In fairness I completely blanked on that. But I suppose if you're going to steal,  steal from the best...

I've hardly been uncritical of this series,  and many of its flaws were present in this episode too,  but I did enjoy it as a bit of action/drama. I think it helps that I gave up on Dr Who as SF a long, long time ago - it's a space fantasy about a crazy old wizard,  and I like those too.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tiplodocus 10 December, 2018, 09:16:43 AM
I was just waiting for a twist... that it was all the planet Playing with their minds and a real baddie reveal... that never came.

I actually think that would have worked better as an arc. An episode about the Ucks. Alluding to missing planets in other episodes. An episode about the crusade to destroy or steal the all powerful weapon people had heard of and then, this finale, could have had more character beats and more time to make sense.

Scripts not living up to actors or production values.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 10 December, 2018, 01:27:19 PM
With the exception of a couple of episodes, I seem to enjoy them while I'm watching them, but ultimately feel rather unsatisfied afterwards. That's been this series as a whole really...
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 10 December, 2018, 05:48:31 PM
The always brilliant TARDIS Eruditorum blog has effectively articulated the many seriously worrying problems which underlay yesterday's episode.
http://www.eruditorumpress.com/blog/the-battle-of-ranskoor-av-kolos-review/
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 10 December, 2018, 06:16:58 PM
Heh, that was a great piece!  Cheers Taryn. It does make me realise the source of our contrasting reactions: I really don't care enough, which is probably a big failing for the series as a whole. For me,  sitting down with the kids after an early tea, the episode moved along,  Graham had some good dramatic moments, the Doctor was fine, it was fun. But on the terms discussed in that Eruditorum review, it was a disaster.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 10 December, 2018, 07:14:46 PM
Heh, that was a great piece!  Cheers Taryn. It does make me realise the source of our contrasting reactions: I really don't care enough, which is probably a big failing for the series as a whole. For me,  sitting down with the kids after an early tea, the episode moved along,  Graham had some good dramatic moments, the Doctor was fine, it was fun. But on the terms discussed in that Eruditorum review, it was a disaster.

And based on that I can see why you enjoyed it. We've experienced the same story from two very different perspectives. Certainly, there was nothing there which would have negatively affected a family viewing of the show.
The big issue clearly is caring, and like you said the fact that you didn't care enough is almost certainly a failure on the shows part. It may very well have been an acceptable forty-five minutes of Sunday night television, but when the show in question is one which has the capacity to produce  infinite magic and limitless storytelling possibilities, when it is one which has imprinted itself indelibly upon your heart - as it has with myself and many other people over the past 55 years  -, it becomes genuinely heart-breaking and, yes, upsetting, to see it being reduced to the utterly vacuous non-entity of an offering which we were presented with last night.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tiplodocus 10 December, 2018, 07:37:02 PM
There's been plenty of bland, pish Doctor Who, both new and old, before now. So I can't see it as suddenly being reduced to this level.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Hawkmumbler 10 December, 2018, 07:40:37 PM
'Contrarian What-About-ism Alert'

A lot of people complaining about Series 11 being the lowest point in the shows history seem to forget S24. Some bits of Paradise Towers notwithstanding, between awful scripts and 'gulp' Bonnie Langford, it's important to remember it could be worse.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 10 December, 2018, 07:47:51 PM
There's been plenty of bland, pish Doctor Who, both new and old, before now. So I can't see it as suddenly being reduced to this level.

There's been plenty of poor Doctor Who in the past, but there was at least a sense that they were trying to do something good. The reduction in quality has been sudden. Compare this years series finale to last years finale and the gulf in quality is enormous. While there have been huge dips in quality between stories before - for example, Caves of Androzani being followed by The Twin Dilemma - they still existed in series where something new and exciting was just around the corner. Unfortunately, with Chris Chibnall in charge of the show, there is no sense that anything even passably good is just around the corner. 'It Takes You Away' feels like it was a success in-spite of its producer, rather than because of him. Ultimately, the problem with the show now is Chris Chibnall, and that's why there's genuine concern about the show so long as he's in charge.

Yes, Season 24 was pretty poor (aside from Paradise Towers), but in both Delta and the Bannerman and Dragonfire I could at least see that they were trying to do something worthawhile. Bear in mind that Season 24 was a season rushed to production so that the new script editor, Andrew Cartmel, didn't have enough time to turn the show around so that it reflected his future vision for the programme. He was, however, able to sow a few seeds which would later blossom into the, ultimately curtailed, Cartmel masterplan. So while Season 24 was pretty bad, there was light at the end of that tunnel, a sense that the show was in a transitionary phase. As of now, there is no light at end of the tunnel. We have Chibnall and his surface level scripts and basic ideas.

I'm quite sure I'm not alone in not wanting to bash either the show or production team to this degree. But, ultimately, it's because I care, and it matters to me that Doctor Who should be quite this vapid.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 10 December, 2018, 07:50:47 PM
There's been plenty of bland, pish Doctor Who, both new and old, before now. So I can't see it as suddenly being reduced to this level.

There's been plenty of poor Doctor Who in the past, but there was at least a sense that they were trying to do something good. The reduction in quality has been sudden. Compare this years series finale to last years finale and the gulf in quality is enormous. While there have been huge dips in quality between stories before - for example, Caves of Androzani being followed by The Twin Dilemma - they still existed in series where something new and exciting was just around the corner. Unfortunately, with Chris Chibnall in charge of the show, there is no sense that anything even passably good is just around the corner. 'It Takes You Away' feels like it was a success in-spite of its producer, rather than because of him. Ultimately, the problem with the show now is Chris Chibnall, and that's why there's genuine concern about the show so long as he's in charge.

Yes, Season 24 was pretty poor (aside from Paradise Towers), but in both Delta and the Bannerman and Dragonfire I could at least see that they were trying to do something worthawhile. Bear in mind that Season 24 was a season rushed to production so that the new script editor, Andrew Cartmel, didn't have enough time to turn the show around so that it reflected his future vision for the programme. He was, however, able to sow a few seeds which would later blossom into the, ultimately curtailed, Cartmel masterplan. So while Season 24 was pretty bad, there was light at the end of that tunnel, a sense that the show was in a transitionary phase; although I will grant you that the show was cancelled not long after. As of now, there is no light at end of the tunnel. All we have is Chibnall and his surface level scripts and basic ideas.

I'm quite sure I'm not alone in not wanting to bash either the show or production team to this degree. But, ultimately, it's because I care, and it matters to me that Doctor Who should be quite this vapid.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 10 December, 2018, 07:51:49 PM
Apologies for the double post. That was meant to be a modification of the original post.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 10 December, 2018, 08:10:08 PM
With the exception of a couple of episodes, I seem to enjoy them while I'm watching them, but ultimately feel rather unsatisfied afterwards. That's been this series as a whole really...

You know what that's a pretty perfect summary. I've enjoyed the vast majority when watching, but think only positively of maybe 2 or 3 in reflection and do wonder whether they'd stand up to re-watch.

I also wonder how much of the fun I've had is been seeing the kids love it so much!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 10 December, 2018, 08:22:25 PM
There's been plenty of bland, pish Doctor Who, both new and old, before now. So I can't see it as suddenly being reduced to this level.

That's where I'm coming from too.  I agree with may of the criticisms, and certainly that Dr Who can and should be better, but I've seen worse (Hawkie's Season 24 for a start).  This current series has at least kept me watching - I don't think I've lasted the whole way through any NuWho series since Eccleston. 

This time out there's a notable reduction in "love/belief will fix everything" endings and outrageously loud music, far less gurning than Tenant and less "I'm the Doctor and I am the greatest" rants, no "will they won't they" X-Files sexual tension drivel, no annoyingly heavy-handed series-arc segments shoving their hype into every episode only to end in some profoundly disappointing and deeply convoluted way. I am a long-time Dr Who fan, but a mild one ,and my deep allegiances are to Pertwee, T. Baker and maybe Davison and McCoy. I want to like it, and often do, but Nu Who generally disappoints me at least as much as it entertains me.

It may indeed be a greater crime to be relatively bland, but at least I hung around to genuinely enjoy Rosa, Demons of the Punjab, Witchfinders and (yes even) The Tsuranga Conundrum - and other than Arachnids the rest was inoffensive.  Most other years I'd have bailed out in a fit of disgust long before the end. I'm even looking forward to the New Year's episode, although I don't think I've watched a Christmas Day episode since Starship Titanic, and that was only 'cos Kylie was in it.

So as a more obsessive fan of other periodically infuriatingly subpar SF franchises with great potential, I sympathise with your frustration Taryn - but all I feel is mild annoyance that the quality of the writing (and maybe the structure) really doesn't support what is otherwise a solidly entertaining production.



: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Leigh S 10 December, 2018, 08:22:53 PM
What was Moffatt's series finale?  If we are talking about the one where he shat on the First Doctor from a great height, then I'm reckoning the Chibnall Era a resounding success in comparison.

Yes, there are no arcs, and thank Christ for that.  Doctor Who in the "old Days" had a run of stories, some good some not so good/  RTD and Moffatt era broke that cycle by having these clomping great bolted on "epic bigger than ever revelations of amazingness" that left me at best cold and at worst completely disengaged as the flimsy characters attempt to bear a weight that Shakespeare might have balked at as being a "bit too much"

That said, I havent watched the last one yet and thought Space Frog was more mis-step than step up.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 10 December, 2018, 08:25:03 PM
What was Moffatt's series finale?  If we are talking about the one where he shat on the First Doctor from a great height, then I'm reckoning the Chibnall Era a resounding success in comparison.

That wasn't the series finale; that was the Christmas special which followed on from the end of the series finale. The series finale was 'The Doctor Falls'.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 10 December, 2018, 08:30:01 PM
If I complain hard enough about the writing then there's every chance I'll be the showrunner in thirty years time. It worked for Chibnall after all.  :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irIqTPQqgvQ
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Robin Low 10 December, 2018, 08:37:11 PM
I liked the determination to free all the prisoners, I liked the weirdness of the Auchs (sp?) pair, I liked seeing Tim Shaw again,  I liked the development of Graham and Ryan's relationship,  I liked Graham's dilemma, I liked the captured miniaturised planets, I liked almost all of the Doctor's monlogues/dialogue. The action felt purposeful, and the story felt like it traded on what we'd seen of the characters over the series.

I'll add to all that the image of the ship/shrine/weapon hanging in the sky, Graham's honesty with the Doctor (nothing secretive or conniving), the captain who can actually hit what he aims at... and the old school fan in me was amused by being able to see the joins of the Perspex planet containers.

As usual the logic of the plot was incoherent, the villain caved far too easily, and Yaz had little or nothing to do. 

Yes to all that, too. Feeling a bit sorry for the actress who plays Yaz, as there's nothing wrong with her or the character. It's ironic that in the first episode the character was asking a colleague for more interesting things to do, saying she could do so much more... and yet the writers have given her so little.

That said, I hope they keep all three companions. A small group of characters is a bit more interesting.

This item in the BBC bit announcing no new series in 2019:

The series has been considered a ratings success, with viewing figures above those of the last two series when Peter Capaldi starred in the title role.

I'm glad to read that the ratings are apparently good, as it bodes better for the series' future... but dear god, I feel sorry for Capaldi. He was a great Doctor, poorly served by many of the stories... but some of those stories were much better than what this season had to offer.

Regards,

Robin
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Leigh S 10 December, 2018, 09:24:40 PM
Is that the one where he scraped his knee?   :lol:

Something something Cybermen something?  If so I found that might have had soe nice sci-fi ideas (the space ship with variable time progression), the execution of those ideas was hideously convoluted and self referential - OK if you care about the (in my mind)  fake drama of Bill being a Cyberman who happens to not get turned into a cyberman and here is a bit of the spaceship where they are all yokels on the farm and on and on and I've switched off

These stories could do with a bit more about them, but we have by and large left "love saves people from being cybernised/resets the universe" behind, along with "ooooh who is the Doctor REALLY, oooohhh!" shenanigans, which could never have satisfactory endings (thank god for the cancellation before the Cartmel Masterplan revelations, or the cancellation before the McGann Half human stuck etc.)


What was Moffatt's series finale?  If we are talking about the one where he shat on the First Doctor from a great height, then I'm reckoning the Chibnall Era a resounding success in comparison.

That wasn't the series finale; that was the Christmas special which followed on from the end of the series finale. The series finale was 'The Doctor Falls'.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Taryn Tailz 10 December, 2018, 09:49:50 PM
Well, 'The Doctor Falls' was actually resolved by the Doctor blowing the Cybermen up, which isn't exactly saving the universe through the power of love. That was, of course, a legitimate gripe with the previous era (I don't deny that), but if we start debating that issue then we end up in what-about-ism territory, which ultimately never leads anywhere.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Leigh S 17 December, 2018, 05:11:21 PM
Having finally watched the finale, what a dull and pointless bit of TV that was.  Ironically, it felt very Pip and Jane Baker in it's effort to create entirely bland "aliens" talking in cliche and a plot that offered nothing palpable to grip onto and a weak and predictable'dilemma' for Graham that was only going to end one way (and as others have pointed out, killing him seems like a kindness in comparison to eternal stasis or slow starvation, whaever those pods were supposed to be! Still, at least no one called Hartnell a c***, so it's still a step up from Moffatt's last outing.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Dandontdare 17 December, 2018, 09:19:29 PM
it felt very Pip and Jane Baker

Hey, don't knock 'em, those are the guys who manged to get penis-headed aliens who shoot white stuff out of their japs eye into a children's show. Kudos!

Graham's dilemma was so obviously going that way that they didn't even bother writing any soul searching - it was just "I'm gonna kill you ... actually, I've changed my mind" - and taking him down was then so ridiculously easy, it negated any menace or threat.

Chibnall did manage to wrong foot me for the first time though - usually his denouements are so predictable but I was wrong about the nature of the crystal maguffins - I thought they contained all the remaining Ux.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 01 January, 2019, 07:17:49 PM
Can I be the first to say 'Starborn Thing'...
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 01 January, 2019, 08:07:27 PM
Hah! I thought the same. Still, mostly a good one, which I wasn’t expecting from Chibnall.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Leigh S 01 January, 2019, 08:08:49 PM
You can!


Hmmm... the ultimate problem is that Chibnall is...not very good a writer.  I prefer his approach (dropping the "mythos" building/teasing of Moffatt for example) as it feels more traditionally Who, but damn that was clunkier than the scrapyard Dalek plotwise.

Destroyed by convenient oven/microwave combo?  Most childlike/signposted/bizarre resolution ever? (see what I did there?). Like a Mark Millar villain, the Dalek shrugs off bullets and tanks, but can be melted by some microwave gubbins?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: pauljholden 01 January, 2019, 08:16:45 PM
Convenient? That poor man had been pointlessly carrying a microwave oven with him all day.

Thought it was weirdly less than the sum of it’s parts, liked the new use of the dalek but I’d actually have preferred it if it was an all new foe (I mean, for me, the “Oh it’s a dalek” just made me go “Oh it’s always daleks”)

The Dalek was pretty disappointing looking when it turned up in full dalek-armour
The resolution was rubbish (esp the let’s just run around a bit and creep up on it? - are daleks only good with frontal assaults or something)

Also: it felt like a recycled bone kickers script, which annoyed me because i’d Rather have new bone kickers...
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Leigh S 01 January, 2019, 08:21:36 PM
That's true - it must have been pretty inconvenient for him to bring it along wiht him on the day he is trying to make up with his son, when all the shops are going to be closed, but just took it along on the offchance he might go to a cafe where he could sell precisely one of them?  I'm not sure if it is more asinine than insane, but it's certainly both!  And that is BEFORE it gets to melt a Dalek (I'm glossing over how Medieval Allies burnt it to death with sticksof wood)

Convenient? That poor man had been pointlessly carrying a microwave oven with him all day.

Thought it was weirdly less than the sum of it’s parts, liked the new use of the dalek but I’d actually have preferred it if it was an all new foe (I mean, for me, the “Oh it’s a dalek” just made me go “Oh it’s always daleks”)

The Dalek was pretty disappointing looking when it turned up in full dalek-armour
The resolution was rubbish (esp the let’s just run around a bit and creep up on it? - are daleks only good with frontal assaults or something)

Also: it felt like a recycled bone kickers script, which annoyed me because i’d Rather have new bone kickers...
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Leigh S 01 January, 2019, 08:31:17 PM
I completely agree with you PJ in regards it would have been vastly superior if it wasnt a Dalek - all the clunky stuff stemmed from having to reconstruct, then find a way to destruct, the Dalek casing.  Make the creature some other Starborn Thing (TM Colin)  and you could have cleared all that cludge out and had a plot that held up to a cursory prod
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mattofthespurs 01 January, 2019, 08:34:03 PM
My mum says never say anything unless you can say something nice.

The nicest thing I can say about that episode, and the series in general, is it is fucking awful.

And that's the nicest thing I can think of.

Hideous.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 01 January, 2019, 08:39:07 PM
I could pick holes in that episode all night long but, most importantly for me, it was fun and entertaining.
I loved the look of the spare-part dalek and thought it was nice they found something new to do with them.
I’d say this was far better than the Xmas episodes ever were.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Colin YNWA 01 January, 2019, 08:39:56 PM
I actually thought that was pretty good. It certainly wasn't without its problems... targeted vaccum and other gubbins but overall very enjoyable and again the kids loved it.

I think it was best when the Dalek was Starborn thingesque it was pretty chilling and was doing something fresh and and interesting. Still gotta sell those toys and I thought junkyard Dalek was pretty cool. Really didn't need the second ending could have found a way to use the combined time and ideas to make one good ending if you ask me.

Still over all a success all be it one with an absolutely unnecessary movie trailer voice over at the end!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Leigh S 01 January, 2019, 08:42:09 PM
Make the creature a Rutan and Bob (Holmes)'s your uncle!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mister Pops 01 January, 2019, 09:22:13 PM
I stopped watching Dr Who years ago when I realised the online fan discussions were more entertaining than the show
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tiplodocus 02 January, 2019, 04:10:31 PM
So much of that didn't work for me. And the bits that did, I got the feeling I had seen before.

I know the fact seven people were lined up against the dalek at the end was kind of the point but I think it just shows how little idea they have for what to do with the core companions.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Bad City Blue 03 January, 2019, 11:20:47 AM
I've been defending this series as I've enjoyed way more than not, but that was pretty poor.

How come Chibnall is praised to the skies for Broadchurch but still can't write Sci Fi without help?

I genuinely said about twenty minutes in "Checkhov's Microwave", as it was onviously going to be used to defeat the baddie later. Such poor writing, as was the fact they all managed to run behind it and it couldn't even electrify it's shell!

Standout for the series has to be Bradley Walsh, who lucked out with the best character, but I've also really liked Jodie Whitaker as well, despite the gurning.

I hope the rumour of Chibnall leaving is true, but am happy for the core actors to remain.

: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 03 January, 2019, 11:34:42 AM
Isn’t the rumour that he’s off but so is Whitaker? So that’ll result in yet another soft reboot. I hope JW stays though. If not, she’s going to be the anomaly Doctor, because another woman won’t get the role.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: dweezil2 03 January, 2019, 01:13:39 PM
Yeah, that whole shoehorned microwave oven was GCSE levels of creative writing.
The build up was far more interesting than the payoff and the whole thing felt rushed, though there were some interesting directorial and visual flourishes.

I've been consistently impressed with Bradly Walsh's performance in the series and this episode was no different.
Whittaker continues to show promise in her role, but I'm not sure this episode played to her strengths.

I'd still give her another couple of series to settle in before Making my mind up.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mardroid 03 January, 2019, 01:35:40 PM
It's a shame the two younger members of the team aren't given more to do, but I like the characters.

I largely liked this episode, but it left me scratching my head a bit.

I was a tad confused by the fact the creature was cut into the pieces at the start. It made me think the creature .who controlled the women was one section who would attempt to find and rejoin with his other parts... but then he didn't. I then figured the the glow when the creature was reanimated by the UV light must have been the parts teleporting together or somesuch. It would have been nice if that were clearer.

They should have just let out the chopped in 3 gubbins as
A) it was irrelevant to the story. Stating it had been defeated would be enough, cue the archaeologists finding the whole biological component.
B) Daleks are tough,but I'm sure if the creature in the pepper-pot-tank were chopped up, it would be dead.
Then the dalek/lady reconstructed it's shell, complete with repulsorlift technology and missiles in a short period.

At first, I thought that the shell had been completely constructed from materials in that factory place, which really strained my suspension of disbelief. The the doctor happens to mention that it was constructed from a mixture of its own casing and on-site components. That at least explains the weapons and repulsorlift stuff, and the fact the dalek looks pretty conventional, if rather rusty. (I actually liked the look, but I doubt dalekanium would be prone to rusting.)

So I guess the lady picked up the tech along with the ray gun.

That kind of strains my suspension of disbelief in other ways.


But anyway. I still rather liked it, and suspect part of my issue above is just me being a divvy or missing stuff.

The way they defeated it was a bit much, I'd agree, but it was a fun story, and they did nice heartfelt character stuff with thingy's dad and Gramps.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Professor Bear 03 January, 2019, 01:48:52 PM
I'm still slogging through the early episodes, and just got to the one where the Doctor defends poor defenceless Amazon from an angry lone wolf leftie anarchist.  How do people afford to buy things if nobody's in work? Sorry I mean I liked it when the kids went WHEEEEE on the conveyor belts and the funny man did a fart and the Doctor talked really fast.
This season feels like low-hanging fruit, but simultaneously like they aren't really trying, like it's a knock-off Who.  I thought they might be keeping their heads down because they're uncertain about how the gender flip thing was going to be received and that's why it felt like Who on autopilot, with no grand mysteries or conspiracies spanning time and space, just the basic colonialist premise of some gobshite and their mates sticking their noses into foreigners' business and the hilarity/horror that ensues when white Christian moral values are imposed on other cultures.  We don't know that genocide is bad in Skaro culture, guys.  Gotta hear both sides.

It's still fine as sci-fi fluff, but doesn't feel essential.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 03 January, 2019, 02:10:49 PM
I'd still give her another couple of series to settle in before Making my mind up.
Again, if the rumours are true, it's another, what, ten episodes and she's gone?

As for gender flips, my understanding is most of the scripts were in place before her casting. Regardless, any issues from this New Year's Day episode again showcase the need for a decent script editor.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Hawkmumbler 03 January, 2019, 02:36:48 PM
I sincerely hope Jodie sticks around for a third season, similar rumours occurred after Capaldi's first season. In spite of the hit and miss nature of S11, she has been consistently great throughout.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mattofthespurs 03 January, 2019, 04:55:10 PM
I'd still give her another couple of series to settle in before Making my mind up.
Again, if the rumours are true, it's another, what, ten episodes and she's gone?

As for gender flips, my understanding is most of the scripts were in place before her casting. Regardless, any issues from this New Year's Day episode again showcase the need for a decent script editor.

A good script writer first. Then they should talk about an editor.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 03 January, 2019, 05:35:23 PM
A good editor is what's needed to smash half-baked ideas into shape. But script editors with that much power are now very rare in modern TV – which is why so little holds up to scrutiny. (Instead, we have the "showrunner" who has ultimate power, but not always the skills needed to add coherence.) I think modern Who has enough ideas and initial stabs at writing – it just needs someone to improve the scripts.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mattofthespurs 03 January, 2019, 05:44:12 PM
They have good script writers on Inside No 9, Black Mirror and countless other shows.

They used to have them on Doctor Who. Now they have Chibnall. Who is horrible. Even the greatest script editor in the World could not help him.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Proudhuff 03 January, 2019, 05:58:57 PM
So much of that didn't work for me. And the bits that did, I got the feeling I had seen before.

I know the fact seven people were lined up against the dalek at the end was kind of the point but I think it just shows how little idea they have for what to do with the core companions.

This ^^^ and we're back to that dreadful deafing emo-response muzac  :(
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: von Boom 04 January, 2019, 11:48:38 AM
Doctor Who and the Puppet Master Dalek. A lot of mishmash of well worn tropes. Mainly Heinlein and Quatermass. I should have shut it off after about twenty minutes, but I wanted to see Graham again. Bradley Walsh is the only reason I finished the series and he was brilliant once again. They should have ended it right after his chat with Aaron. *sniff*

At least Ryan had some semblance of purpose. Yas could have been replaced in this entire series with a couple of traffic cones.

A mediocre ending to a middling series.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mardroid 04 January, 2019, 12:41:16 PM
Yeah I like Yaz, but they really need to do more with the character.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Mattofthespurs 04 January, 2019, 05:23:17 PM
I've just got to admit that this series is not aimed at me and live with it.

Which is a shame.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Jim_Campbell 04 January, 2019, 06:14:39 PM
Yeah I like Yaz, but they really need to do more with the character.

TBH, the only way is up.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: JamesC 04 January, 2019, 06:23:31 PM
Yeah I like Yaz, but they really need to do more with the character.

TBH, the only way is up.

New Auton story for next series - Yaz and the plastic population.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Dudley 05 January, 2019, 08:45:47 AM
A great New Year special that had my kid jumping up and down with excitement (that'd be my boy who just had a Dr Who themed birthday party and sleeps with his sonic screwdriver on the nightstand). We loved the stripping back of the Dalek emphasising their essential deadliness once more, and this older fan liked the return to shooting Dr who in a quarry. The team has really come together well, as shown in the way that the Ryan plot about family held our interest even though it was mostly a static two-hander. Wish the next series would come sooner!
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Andy Lambert 05 January, 2019, 09:05:19 AM
It may be of interest to know the scrapyard Dalek was completely robotic and didn't have an operator inside like the usual ones do.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Hawkmumbler 05 January, 2019, 12:07:00 PM
It may be of interest to know the scrapyard Dalek was completely robotic and didn't have an operator inside like the usual ones do.
'Unidentified Kaled Mutation in bagging area, please remove abomination to continue'
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: sheridan 06 January, 2019, 11:44:25 PM
Convenient? That poor man had been pointlessly carrying a microwave oven with him all day.


In his words "It's an oven and a microwave" :-)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: sheridan 06 January, 2019, 11:58:44 PM
Yeah I like Yaz, but they really need to do more anything with the character.


Corrected that for you!  (well, alright, there was the one episode when she went back to the partition of India, but for a police office who wants to prove themselves, the character just doesn't seem to act or give the impression of being a figure of authority).
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: von Boom 07 January, 2019, 03:42:59 PM
Yeah I like Yaz, but they really need to do more anything with the character.


Corrected that for you!  (well, alright, there was the one episode when she went back to the partition of India, but for a police office who wants to prove themselves, the character just doesn't seem to act or give the impression of being a figure of authority).
Well, given the current state of police budgets, maybe she's as well trained as they can make these days.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Proudhuff 15 January, 2019, 06:13:59 PM
Didn't the Doctor destroy the Dalek space fleet anyway, so if it had be able to send a message there would be nothing there? I had hoped the Doctor was going to take them to a hulking graveyard of Dalek space ships and the Dalek would of had an 'emotional mind melt viewing the wreckage...
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Sinx 21 January, 2019, 01:03:46 PM
Yeah I like Yaz, but they really need to do more with the character.

TBH, the only way is up.

New Auton story for next series - Yaz and the plastic population.
Should make an episode with the Autons - if only for that reference
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Hawkmumbler 21 January, 2019, 01:12:49 PM
What we really need is a return of the council worker from Season 2.

Comedy gold at it's finest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CinvQ1uqqao (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CinvQ1uqqao)
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: broodblik 01 August, 2019, 03:36:38 AM
I am little late to the party just finished series 11. I hoped that I would enjoy it but that was not the case. I will give the next series a go because I do think there is some protentional in the new doctor.

My biggest problem is the stories. It mostly feels dark and sombre (where is the fun and silliest gone?). The companions I do not care for at all. The companions are always an important part of the series. At least I liked Jodie Whittaker more than Peter Capaldi as the doctor.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: The Enigmatic Dr X 01 August, 2019, 10:20:14 PM
I am little late to the party just finished series 11. I hoped that I would enjoy it but that was not the case. I will give the next series a go because I do think there is some protentional in the new doctor.

My biggest problem is the stories. It mostly feels dark and sombre (where is the fun and silliest gone?). The companions I do not care for at all. The companions are always an important part of the series. At least I liked Jodie Whittaker more than Peter Capaldi as the doctor.

This. The stories were awful. Example: why was the Dalek in three pieces, not one? I guess script editors aren't used any more
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Jim_Campbell 01 August, 2019, 11:19:28 PM
This. The stories were awful. Example: why was the Dalek in three pieces, not one? I guess script editors aren't used any more

I have grave misgivings about Chibnall. Quite apart from his apparent inability to get eleven episodes of a TV series made within a year, when you get handed a flagship BBC show with a huge global audience and the best you can come up with for your fourth episode is “giant spiders because something something toxic waste” it strongly suggests you’re not really trying.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: broodblik 02 August, 2019, 03:27:49 AM
They must at least try to get  Steven Moffat back on writing duties
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 02 August, 2019, 09:13:33 AM
The rumour is he hates sci-fi, which makes him an odd choice for showrunner. I think the Doc is fine, although they can’t figure out what really defines her. The gang is OK but not fleshed out and is frequently underused. (How many remember that one is a cop? Not many, I’d wager.)

I imagine one more series and it’ll be all change, and Chibbers will have fucked the idea of a woman as the Doctor for a generation. Or possibly the series as a whole, with it going into hiatus.

That all said, as I’ve complained about before, and as others have said recently, the main failing in Doctor Who – which goes back to RTD’s run, and is commonplace on a lot of modern telly – is the lack of a script editor with serious power. The showrunner should be about tone, overall direction, and basic plotting. The script editor should have the power to rewrite everything to make it better and coherent. That clearly isn’t happening here.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Jim_Campbell 02 August, 2019, 10:42:14 AM
Or possibly the series as a whole, with it going into hiatus.

I think the lack of a reliable annual schedule is going to be a problem. It's not exactly Game of Thrones, so the idea that it's impossible to produce eleven episodes in under a year is perplexing and robs the show of momentum. If people get out of the habit of watching, you have to fight to get them back.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 02 August, 2019, 11:30:45 AM
It’s well known senior BBC figures used to hate the show, and did their best to kill it. Rumours are that attitude hasn’t really changed. If you were trying to destroy the show, how would you be going about things any differently than they are right now? This is a show where you should be doing ten 40-minute episodes a year, like clockwork. This whole “well, fuck it – we’ll do some more Who at some point” approach is nuts.

Still, at least we got a new theme tune, and someone who knows how to mix audio. So that’s, er, something.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: broodblik 02 August, 2019, 02:38:24 PM
If seniors at BBC do not like or do not believe in the show, why make it ? So the idea is to make a rubbish show and when it does not work you tell people I told you so. This just is so illogical
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 02 August, 2019, 02:54:03 PM
Given what I’ve heard here and there about the inner workings of the BBC, “dysfunctional” doesn’t really seem to cut it. Bear in mind this was the corporation that wanted at one point to axe 6Music, on the basis of “competition”, when 6Music’s actual closest competitors were begging the BBC not to, because they couldn’t cover even a fraction of the music the BBC’s station did.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: broodblik 02 August, 2019, 02:59:06 PM
Public broadcasters are mostly run by old-farts with really primitive ideas and concepts of life.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Jim_Campbell 08 August, 2019, 01:05:12 PM
Twitter awash with rumours today that Chibnall has been sacked and Whitaker has walked in protest. Some talk of a press release from the BBC later this afternoon…
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Leigh S 08 August, 2019, 02:11:14 PM
I was no great fan of Chibnall - thought his stuff prior to taking over was dismal aping of the worst aspects of RTD (and I was no huge fan of RTD for the most part!).  In many regards I was impressed beyond my admittedly low expectations by series 11 - it was variable, but they all ahve been - it had one too many companions (Ryan specifically, who acting style rarely rose above comatose)

On the plus side it ditched all the mythic/epic/mystery! that Moffatt used instead of actual stories and felt more like classic Who than it ever did, for good or ill.  That's not to say it couldnt have been a lot better, but in comparison to what came before it, it felt fresh - if not the "right" direction, nothing terribly wrong

Other than the Dalek one - that sucked etheric beam locators
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 08 August, 2019, 02:23:19 PM
Twitter awash with rumours today that Chibnall has been sacked and Whitaker has walked in protest. Some talk of a press release from the BBC later this afternoon…
If so, not a great move by Whitaker, frankly. Another Colin Baker moment?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: IndigoPrime 08 August, 2019, 02:33:50 PM
Radio Times has planted its flag: https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2019-08-08/doctor-who-departure-rumours-branded-nonsense-by-insiders/
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Frank 08 August, 2019, 03:02:51 PM
... the new rumours originated on a popular Doctor Who message-board

Hiya, Scojo!


: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Tjm86 10 August, 2019, 07:15:53 PM
Twitter awash with rumours today that Chibnall has been sacked and Whitaker has walked in protest. Some talk of a press release from the BBC later this afternoon…

... and a couple of days later the number of credible sources available in support of the rumour?

This is what concerns me more than anything else at present, the fact that we are even giving credence to the prognostications and comments of anyone who summons up the 'courage' to sit in front of a web camera.  This is just some story about a fantasy television program.  What happens when some lunatic decides to make up stories about paedophile rings based from a pizza parlour (oh sh**!)?
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: Hawkmumbler 10 August, 2019, 07:41:20 PM
Well it's caused B*wlstr**k to appear in my algorithmic recommendations anyway.

Bollocks to that.
: Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
: TordelBack 10 August, 2019, 10:24:12 PM
Jesus, that prick is the YouTube equivalent of toxoplasmosis.