Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion

[Mattofthespurs]

I liked Nardole and Bill...A lot.

That last Capaldi season was fun.

This season seems...Well, the fun has gone.

[Robin Low]

After getting behind with several shows, we've made the effort to watch this season on the night. On the whole we've enjoyed it. It's not had an outstanding episode so far, although it's had a couple of worthy ones.

I like having three other people in the Tardis, as I liked Amy and Rory and Nardole and Bill. It works better with a crew. Where it fails is this need to tell a story an episode. There's no room for characters to do the whole get caught, escape, get caught again thing, which on one hand might be regarded as tedious, but on the other does allow time for character interaction and interesting mucking about.

There's also the problem that if you close your eyes and listen to the Doctor's words, despite being in a woman's voice pretty much all those words could be put into any other of the nuWho Doctors' mouths and you'd never know the difference. That's a weakness in the writing. Matt Smith and Capaldi could overcome that by sheer force of performance, but Whittaker is only fine. A friend of mine at work likes her because she reminds him of Tennant's Doctor... but while I liked him at the time, Smith and Capaldi's Doctors outshone him.

I have no problem with Whittaker or a female Doctor, but she's gonna have to push the people in charge if she wants to get to be a great Doctor. The writers in particular need to understand that the Doctor has to be more than someone who speaks fast and points a cyberwand dramatically.

Regards,

Robin

[Tiplodocus]

I enjoy it but a lot of it comes from thinking "I bet this is good for the kids without all of those tortuous, continuity heavy three season long arcs. And there's some accessible history and ethics in there for them too". Which may not be the case.

It should be a family show though, not a kids show.

Again, though, none of the problems stem from the Doctor not having a penis.

[TordelBack]

Tonight's was enjoyable - creepy in places, and Alan Cummings was good value. Though it pains me to say it, part of its success was that the companions were lsrgely sidelined, apart from some dodgy Are You Being Served humour at Ryan's expense. Again they felt like observers rather than participants, but it wasn't as much of an issue because they weren't using up much of the runtime.

[Colin YNWA]

Pretty good, and the kids loved it.

It was going great guns and was creepy as heck. That I got a little dishearten when it just turned out to be another generic alien invasion type thingie... but you know what it held together and just about got away with that.

It was interesting listening to the kids in the car today with a couple of their friends absolutely enthusing about the show. So for all the mind aged hand wringing going on in some parts it seems to be finding its core audience.

[Taryn Tailz]

That's likely the first time Berwick has ever been mentioned in a televised episode of Doctor Who, so...score one for the home team.  (I live ten minutes from Berwick, so this was as exciting as seeing Sheffield was to some of you.)

The Doctor was being a little bit dense in key moments of that story. It was incredibly foolish of her to be openly wielding the sonic screwdriver during a witch hunt; what else were they going to think it was other than a wand? She was a bit slow on picking up on the tree being the lock for the prison, when it had already been made pretty clear.

On the whole, however, a pretty solid episode. Nothing earth-shattering (no pun intended considering, you know, killer mud) but a perfectly acceptable pseudo-historical. Next weeks looks pretty interesting though.

[M.I.K.]

That's likely the first time Berwick has ever been mentioned in a televised episode of Doctor Who, so...score one for the home team.  (I live ten minutes from Berwick, so this was as exciting as seeing Sheffield was to some of you.)

Sorry to potentially burst your Berwicky bubble, but I think it needs pointed out that King James VI/I was likely referring to North Berwick, and not Berwick-Upon-Tweed.

[Taryn Tailz]

That's likely the first time Berwick has ever been mentioned in a televised episode of Doctor Who, so...score one for the home team.  (I live ten minutes from Berwick, so this was as exciting as seeing Sheffield was to some of you.)

Sorry to potentially burst your Berwicky bubble, but I think it needs pointed out that King James VI/I was likely referring to North Berwick, and not Berwick-Upon-Tweed.

Ah, that would make more sense, but let's not let a little thing like the facts get in the way. It is 2018, after all. 

[BPP]

Lots to enjoy in this, notably the creepy stuff (which was filmed well at the start but by the end became a bit drama student extra pawing around in the background) and Alan Cummings (king James for Doctors assistant). However the Doctor herself was pretty crap and again way too preachy (the whole bullying stuff) and the villains got rid of far too quickly.

The real problem - ‘this fire will be a weapon’ - what? Why? and ‘I’ve activated the lock’ - what? Why? How?

In a sense it suffere from too much and too many people stuffed in and no actual explaination or reasoning. The doctor very much suffers from turn up, pull a face, wave a wand, say let’s be friends then press a button and all is done. If this whole storyline had been done over 2 epsoides there could have been so so much more from the very decent set up and the excellent campy Cummings.

[TordelBack]

Agree with BPP 100% - all this episode needed to be great (rather than fine) was a second part. Give these setups room to breathe, please! If nothing else it has to be cheaper.

[JamesC]

I’m not convinced they need to switch to two parters.
If you watch the average episode of something like Star Trek TNG, they fit a lot of story in 45mins.
I think part of the problem is that they spend too long setting up the premise and too long explaining a resolution which is almost always pretty straight forward (wave a wand or press a button). I wonder how a framing device similar to Star Trek would work - maybe have a voice over from one of the companions at the beginning or end to get all the exposition out quickly?

[IndigoPrime]

Again: they need better script editors.

Still, if the rumours are true (and I hope they are not), Chibbers and Whittaker alike will be gone by the end of next year, and we’ll get another soft reboot.

[Tiplodocus]

Ok but far from great. Even Alan Cumming couldn't wring much out of that.

It's coasting on the goodwill I have towards Doctor Who at the moment. Best episodes have been the ones with the historic high stakes.

Take those out of a script and the writers just can't seem to get any drama out of the situations or the dynamic of the team in the tardis.

Surely having some of the team doubting the Doctor or thinking they know better would add some frisson. At the moment, Doctor just seems to doubt herself which, while initially refreshing, actually is a bit crap. Come on writers!

[Tiplodocus]

Of course, everyone else I talk to who has kids between 6 and 14 is loving it.

[TordelBack]

If you watch the average episode of something like Star Trek TNG, they fit a lot of story in 45mins.

That's a good point. And more characters to juggle too. Interesting to think about what the differences are.

Something like the 3rd season's Ensigns of Command,  where Data has to convince colonists to evacuate rather than try to fight the Sheliak, could easily be a Dr Who episode. But for some reason I'm mainly finding myself thinking of terrible episodes that would fit the Who model (crew visits alien culture or human outpost, has to solve problem that arises, usually external): The Royale, Planet of the Joggers (aka Justice), Angel One, The Survivors, Devil's Due. A grim list!

Wracking my brain, there are definitely some good ones along these lines:  First Contact (the episode, not the movie), Silicon Avatar, Darmok, Time's Arrow (a two-parter!)... I'm sure there are others, but what strikes me us how many episodes revolve around established races, violent conflicts and individual crew relationships and backstories, shipboard tech problems and the conflict of military matters and morality.

The actual current Who-type episode model of "introduce new setting - new characters - new problem - companion roles/development - Dr agency - solution and moral" seem surprisingly rare, particularly if you want the episode to be good. So many TNG episodes use familiar settings (the ship) and established-character-based stories (Federation admirals/corruption, Lwaxana,  Q,  Worf & the Klingons, Data's quest for humanity etc) that it makes me think that the one-off-play is a hard trick to pull off.