Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion

[TordelBack]

Fair enough. I probably would have liked the captured miniaturised planets as well, had they not been lifted wholesale from Douglas Adams' Doctor Who.

In fairness I completely blanked on that. But I suppose if you're going to steal,  steal from the best...

I've hardly been uncritical of this series,  and many of its flaws were present in this episode too,  but I did enjoy it as a bit of action/drama. I think it helps that I gave up on Dr Who as SF a long, long time ago - it's a space fantasy about a crazy old wizard,  and I like those too.

[Tiplodocus]

I was just waiting for a twist... that it was all the planet Playing with their minds and a real baddie reveal... that never came.

I actually think that would have worked better as an arc. An episode about the Ucks. Alluding to missing planets in other episodes. An episode about the crusade to destroy or steal the all powerful weapon people had heard of and then, this finale, could have had more character beats and more time to make sense.

Scripts not living up to actors or production values.

[Andy Lambert]

With the exception of a couple of episodes, I seem to enjoy them while I'm watching them, but ultimately feel rather unsatisfied afterwards. That's been this series as a whole really...

[Taryn Tailz]

The always brilliant TARDIS Eruditorum blog has effectively articulated the many seriously worrying problems which underlay yesterday's episode.
http://www.eruditorumpress.com/blog/the-battle-of-ranskoor-av-kolos-review/

[TordelBack]

Heh, that was a great piece!  Cheers Taryn. It does make me realise the source of our contrasting reactions: I really don't care enough, which is probably a big failing for the series as a whole. For me,  sitting down with the kids after an early tea, the episode moved along,  Graham had some good dramatic moments, the Doctor was fine, it was fun. But on the terms discussed in that Eruditorum review, it was a disaster.

[Taryn Tailz]

Heh, that was a great piece!  Cheers Taryn. It does make me realise the source of our contrasting reactions: I really don't care enough, which is probably a big failing for the series as a whole. For me,  sitting down with the kids after an early tea, the episode moved along,  Graham had some good dramatic moments, the Doctor was fine, it was fun. But on the terms discussed in that Eruditorum review, it was a disaster.

And based on that I can see why you enjoyed it. We've experienced the same story from two very different perspectives. Certainly, there was nothing there which would have negatively affected a family viewing of the show.
The big issue clearly is caring, and like you said the fact that you didn't care enough is almost certainly a failure on the shows part. It may very well have been an acceptable forty-five minutes of Sunday night television, but when the show in question is one which has the capacity to produce  infinite magic and limitless storytelling possibilities, when it is one which has imprinted itself indelibly upon your heart - as it has with myself and many other people over the past 55 years  -, it becomes genuinely heart-breaking and, yes, upsetting, to see it being reduced to the utterly vacuous non-entity of an offering which we were presented with last night.

[Tiplodocus]

There's been plenty of bland, pish Doctor Who, both new and old, before now. So I can't see it as suddenly being reduced to this level.

[Hawkmumbler]

'Contrarian What-About-ism Alert'

A lot of people complaining about Series 11 being the lowest point in the shows history seem to forget S24. Some bits of Paradise Towers notwithstanding, between awful scripts and 'gulp' Bonnie Langford, it's important to remember it could be worse.

[Taryn Tailz]

There's been plenty of bland, pish Doctor Who, both new and old, before now. So I can't see it as suddenly being reduced to this level.

There's been plenty of poor Doctor Who in the past, but there was at least a sense that they were trying to do something good. The reduction in quality has been sudden. Compare this years series finale to last years finale and the gulf in quality is enormous. While there have been huge dips in quality between stories before - for example, Caves of Androzani being followed by The Twin Dilemma - they still existed in series where something new and exciting was just around the corner. Unfortunately, with Chris Chibnall in charge of the show, there is no sense that anything even passably good is just around the corner. 'It Takes You Away' feels like it was a success in-spite of its producer, rather than because of him. Ultimately, the problem with the show now is Chris Chibnall, and that's why there's genuine concern about the show so long as he's in charge.

Yes, Season 24 was pretty poor (aside from Paradise Towers), but in both Delta and the Bannerman and Dragonfire I could at least see that they were trying to do something worthawhile. Bear in mind that Season 24 was a season rushed to production so that the new script editor, Andrew Cartmel, didn't have enough time to turn the show around so that it reflected his future vision for the programme. He was, however, able to sow a few seeds which would later blossom into the, ultimately curtailed, Cartmel masterplan. So while Season 24 was pretty bad, there was light at the end of that tunnel, a sense that the show was in a transitionary phase. As of now, there is no light at end of the tunnel. We have Chibnall and his surface level scripts and basic ideas.

I'm quite sure I'm not alone in not wanting to bash either the show or production team to this degree. But, ultimately, it's because I care, and it matters to me that Doctor Who should be quite this vapid.

[Taryn Tailz]

There's been plenty of bland, pish Doctor Who, both new and old, before now. So I can't see it as suddenly being reduced to this level.

There's been plenty of poor Doctor Who in the past, but there was at least a sense that they were trying to do something good. The reduction in quality has been sudden. Compare this years series finale to last years finale and the gulf in quality is enormous. While there have been huge dips in quality between stories before - for example, Caves of Androzani being followed by The Twin Dilemma - they still existed in series where something new and exciting was just around the corner. Unfortunately, with Chris Chibnall in charge of the show, there is no sense that anything even passably good is just around the corner. 'It Takes You Away' feels like it was a success in-spite of its producer, rather than because of him. Ultimately, the problem with the show now is Chris Chibnall, and that's why there's genuine concern about the show so long as he's in charge.

Yes, Season 24 was pretty poor (aside from Paradise Towers), but in both Delta and the Bannerman and Dragonfire I could at least see that they were trying to do something worthawhile. Bear in mind that Season 24 was a season rushed to production so that the new script editor, Andrew Cartmel, didn't have enough time to turn the show around so that it reflected his future vision for the programme. He was, however, able to sow a few seeds which would later blossom into the, ultimately curtailed, Cartmel masterplan. So while Season 24 was pretty bad, there was light at the end of that tunnel, a sense that the show was in a transitionary phase; although I will grant you that the show was cancelled not long after. As of now, there is no light at end of the tunnel. All we have is Chibnall and his surface level scripts and basic ideas.

I'm quite sure I'm not alone in not wanting to bash either the show or production team to this degree. But, ultimately, it's because I care, and it matters to me that Doctor Who should be quite this vapid.

[Taryn Tailz]

Apologies for the double post. That was meant to be a modification of the original post.

[Colin YNWA]

With the exception of a couple of episodes, I seem to enjoy them while I'm watching them, but ultimately feel rather unsatisfied afterwards. That's been this series as a whole really...

You know what that's a pretty perfect summary. I've enjoyed the vast majority when watching, but think only positively of maybe 2 or 3 in reflection and do wonder whether they'd stand up to re-watch.

I also wonder how much of the fun I've had is been seeing the kids love it so much!

[TordelBack]

There's been plenty of bland, pish Doctor Who, both new and old, before now. So I can't see it as suddenly being reduced to this level.

That's where I'm coming from too.  I agree with may of the criticisms, and certainly that Dr Who can and should be better, but I've seen worse (Hawkie's Season 24 for a start).  This current series has at least kept me watching - I don't think I've lasted the whole way through any NuWho series since Eccleston. 

This time out there's a notable reduction in "love/belief will fix everything" endings and outrageously loud music, far less gurning than Tenant and less "I'm the Doctor and I am the greatest" rants, no "will they won't they" X-Files sexual tension drivel, no annoyingly heavy-handed series-arc segments shoving their hype into every episode only to end in some profoundly disappointing and deeply convoluted way. I am a long-time Dr Who fan, but a mild one ,and my deep allegiances are to Pertwee, T. Baker and maybe Davison and McCoy. I want to like it, and often do, but Nu Who generally disappoints me at least as much as it entertains me.

It may indeed be a greater crime to be relatively bland, but at least I hung around to genuinely enjoy Rosa, Demons of the Punjab, Witchfinders and (yes even) The Tsuranga Conundrum - and other than Arachnids the rest was inoffensive.  Most other years I'd have bailed out in a fit of disgust long before the end. I'm even looking forward to the New Year's episode, although I don't think I've watched a Christmas Day episode since Starship Titanic, and that was only 'cos Kylie was in it.

So as a more obsessive fan of other periodically infuriatingly subpar SF franchises with great potential, I sympathise with your frustration Taryn - but all I feel is mild annoyance that the quality of the writing (and maybe the structure) really doesn't support what is otherwise a solidly entertaining production.

[Leigh S]

What was Moffatt's series finale?  If we are talking about the one where he shat on the First Doctor from a great height, then I'm reckoning the Chibnall Era a resounding success in comparison.

Yes, there are no arcs, and thank Christ for that.  Doctor Who in the "old Days" had a run of stories, some good some not so good/  RTD and Moffatt era broke that cycle by having these clomping great bolted on "epic bigger than ever revelations of amazingness" that left me at best cold and at worst completely disengaged as the flimsy characters attempt to bear a weight that Shakespeare might have balked at as being a "bit too much"

That said, I havent watched the last one yet and thought Space Frog was more mis-step than step up.

[Taryn Tailz]

What was Moffatt's series finale?  If we are talking about the one where he shat on the First Doctor from a great height, then I'm reckoning the Chibnall Era a resounding success in comparison.

That wasn't the series finale; that was the Christmas special which followed on from the end of the series finale. The series finale was 'The Doctor Falls'.