The Political Thread

[The Legendary Shark]

I wonder who paid for that?

[Professor Bear]

We all will.

[Hawkmumbler]

We all will.

Wakka Wakka Wakka!!!

[IndigoPrime]

May and her rich chums won't.

Still, Brexit, eh? Today's fun turn of events was my wife in tears at lunchtime over the latest developments over the status of EEA migrants (given that she's one), and our two-year-old toddler looking scared and asking what was wrong with mummy. But, hey, SOVEREIGNTY.

Fucking hell. I hate this so much. And there's nothing I can do.

[Hawkmumbler]

It like this, really. Not all folk who voted to Leave are racist. But they sure enabled ose who are to act upon their bigotry.

[The Legendary Shark]

You can't be the only person in your area facing the same problem, IP, can you find others to join forces with? Could you use the current anti-Trump sentiment in some way, pointing out how the people dealing with your wife's case are obviously as racist as Donald? I'm sure there are plenty of people on this forum who would email whomever's causing you all this grief, or local media or even (grits teeth) MPs with messages of support for you and condemnation for them - me included. IIRC, Dr X is a solicitor and may have some legal arguments you could use. We have artists and writers who could parody your tormentors.

There are ways, IP, you are not helpless, and I know we've butted heads on this thread in the past but, as God is my witness, if I can do anything to help I will - and I'm certain I'm not the only one.

I'm with IndigoPrime Block!

[IndigoPrime]

You can't be the only person in your area facing the same problem, IP, can you find others to join forces with?

There are various groups (such as the 3million) trying to figure out how to approach things from a legal standpoint, and to provide support. But it's the uncertainty of everything that's causing anxiety and worse. The UK's position is unknown, bar a vague "hope" to secure a reciprocal deal of some sort on residency. The details may not be known for a long time, and the deal may fail. In the meantime, EEA nationals are left fearing for their status here, while simultaneously getting fed all kinds of rubbish from people and even media organisations who don't know the law. (For example, living in the UK for five years does NOT grant you permanent residency rights. Being married to a British national – even one earning over the government's ridiculous and arbitrary threshold – does NOT grant you permanent residency rights.)

how the people dealing with your wife's case are obviously as racist as Donald? I'm sure there are plenty of people on this forum who would email whomever's causing you all this grief, or local media or even (grits teeth) MPs with messages of support for you and condemnation for them - me included. IIRC, Dr X is a solicitor and may have some legal arguments you could use. We have artists and writers who could parody your tormentors.

My wife doesn't have a case because we didn't make an application for residency. Although we've lived here since 2003, are married, have a kid, and she's worked a number of years in that time, such an application may fail on certain technicalities (notably CHI), and so until we speak to a lawyer, there's no point in taking things forward. So our best-case scenario beyond doing nothing and hoping for the best is depleting our life's savings and getting advice that may end up with us having to hope for the best anyway.

But if anyone does feel strongly about the situation in general, shout about it, tell friends, and, yes, write to your MP. A groundswell of popular opinion that says people who settled here under FOM should either be given permanent residency or fast-tracked to some form of citizenship would make a difference. And it may even get the current lot to think twice about cases beyond EEA nationals, like that of Irene Clennell.

There are ways, IP, you are not helpless, and I know we've butted heads on this thread in the past but, as God is my witness, if I can do anything to help I will - and I'm certain I'm not the only one.
I'm with IndigoPrime Block!

Thank you. It's been a shitty day, but this post added a touch of brightness to the end of it.

[Steve Green]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/28/nigel-farage-calls-for-douglas-carswell-to-be-expelled-from-ukip?CMP=share_btn_tw

[Hawkmumbler]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/28/nigel-farage-calls-for-douglas-carswell-to-be-expelled-from-ukip?CMP=share_btn_tw

I have strong doubts the party will last the year if this kind of internal sniping is becoming positivly common place.

Couldn't happen to a nicer group of folk.

[The Legendary Shark]

In light of the despicable situation facing IndigoPrime, I've just signed both of the following 38 Degrees petitions. I hope others will join in and help to spread the word.

Protect the rights of E.U citizens living in the UK

Guarantee All Migrants in the UK the Right to Stay!

[IndigoPrime]

Thanks. The more, the merrier on those petitions. Meanwhile, the Home Office isn't helping matters. This is, natch, all about the Home Office trying to get rid of people they see as undesirables. That in itself is reprehensible, but the collateral damage may be severe also: stay-at-home parents; carers for relatives (such as one woman I know who's lived here for decades but spent time away from work looking after her ill British husband); retirees; students.

(In related news, I approached an immigration solicitor for the first time about this subject. He charges £600 per hour. So, um, yeah. We have fairly substantial savings, but for 600 quid an hour they wouldn't last all that long.)

[Hawkmumbler]

In light of the despicable situation facing IndigoPrime, I've just signed both of the following 38 Degrees petitions. I hope others will join in and help to spread the word.

Protect the rights of E.U citizens living in the UK

Guarantee All Migrants in the UK the Right to Stay!

Ditto. It important we make our voices heard on this matter.

[The Legendary Shark]

You maybe need to get a group of you together to spread the legal costs. To my mind, though, you need to learn as much about the fundamentals of law as possible for yourself - fighting this in the legislative arena means you have little chance of success as the government can change legislation, or its interpretation, at a stroke. The authorities also cheat. The best legal arena is, in my opinion, the common law - for all law is based on common law.

Don't be afraid, though, that's the most important thing. They bank on your being too afraid to say no, to meekly do as you're told. Don't.

I don't think it will come to forced deportations, even in this current climate, because that would look very bad on the news, but it might start to happen quietly. To guard against this, you need a plan to make sure this quiet thing doesn't happen to you or your friends. Quite simply, all you need is to approach a few people you trust and ask them to just show up at your home, preferably with cameras and instant upload to Facebook capabilities, should you need them. A group of people who will drop everything and come to bear witness if they receive a specific "99-Red" text from you, and vice versa. There's no need for violence, just a human presence and maybe even a human shield. This is an extreme precaution, obviously, but one worth putting in place as soon as possible.

[Jim_Campbell]

I don't think it will come to forced deportations

What, like this one?

[IndigoPrime]

You maybe need to get a group of you together to spread the legal costs.

The problem is that lawyers will work on an individual basis, because all people's situations are different. That said, if there is a group option at some point, I will of course take it.

To my mind, though, you need to learn as much about the fundamentals of law as possible for yourself

We are, to some extent, but you can't become an immigration lawyer overnight. Moreover, part of the issue is the government and Home Office positions are not clear. For example, they say you need CSI/CHI, but won't actually state what that is. So you may end up splashing out on expensive health insurance and it still doesn't help. Also, without a time machine, you can't pop back five years and get the insurance when you needed it, in order to apply for residency. Nor can you 'make good' if the HO deems that you've not paid your way.

Don't be afraid, though, that's the most important thing. They bank on your being too afraid to say no, to meekly do as you're told. Don't.

It's not about being afraid (although that is a part of it) so much as massive anxiety and, increasingly, depression. I'm getting snappy. I'm too often tearful. I have good days, but then days where I just feel totally powerless. This weight has been hanging over us since the referendum was first announced. Now, it seems every month there's a new hammer blow, along with a slew of unhelpful advice.

"Just move, then!" people say, as though it's easy to leave everything behind and that I myself then won't end up in basically the same situation as my wife. "Get citizenship for her, then!" they holler, even when that's not possible. And as much as it's nice to hear "Don't worry – I'm sure it'll all be fine", I won't stop worrying until the day I hear my family can without doubt stay in this country for as long as they want to.

I don't think it will come to forced deportations, even in this current climate, because that would look very bad on the news, but it might start to happen quietly.

It's already happening to non-EEA citizens in the same sort of situation. That they've been here for years, employed, married, had kids, and have literally nothing to go to in another country? Doesn't matter. The case Jim linked to is the one I mentioned earlier in the thread: Irene Clennell. She has some circumstances different from most (notably having spent a long time overseas), but her actual ejection is nonetheless baffling. Polling also suggests all of seven per cent are in favour of the decision, but the Home Office apparently doesn't care about such things. All that seems to matter now is shaving off the numbers to get immigration down to an impossible arbitrary number. I don't doubt that unless a deal is done for EVERY EEA national here on a certain date, the same will start happening to them.

As for your plan, it's a nice idea, but if the Home Office wants you out, they'll do it in the middle of the night and it'll happen in an instant. My social reach is such that I might within hours be able to get word out to some extent, but none of that matters if my family has already been torn apart.