Apologies if this is old news as I know Dandy's been struggling through relaunch to relaunch for a while, but now it seems its on the brink of cancellation, well according to The Beat
http://www.comicsbeat.com/2012/08/13/the-dandy-faces-cancellation/#more-56850 (http://www.comicsbeat.com/2012/08/13/the-dandy-faces-cancellation/#more-56850)
The original Guardian article here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/aug/13/oldest-comic-the-dandy-faces-closure (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/aug/13/oldest-comic-the-dandy-faces-closure)
Its hardly a surprise but at least The Beano seems to be doing okay at 38,000 a month... a month being the key I guess (and does Beano come awash with free gifts like most comics these days?)
That would be sad, if true.
Quote from: bikini kill on 14 August, 2012, 07:28:38 AM
That would be sad, if true.
It certainly would-a lot of happy childhood memories wrapped up in that one.
Very sad. It was always the poor cousin to the Beano though.
The dandy is terrible. It looks ugly, it has a disasterous leaning towards cultural characters whom the target audience just dont care about (harry hill, notably, but david cameron, simon cowell, etc) and the abandoning of traditional comic strip cartooning in favour of manga-influenced angular shapes has given us pages of badly-drawn crap with often only one or two gags per page. My kids wont touch it with a barge pole, despite me offering it- and even buying it from time to time just to see if its improved. Both love the beano, and both love the old-style dandy, which they have a small pile of. But the current one... other than the resultant impact on those involved, i see its imminent cancellation as a good thing, from which the adults in charge of this excruciatingly faux-'cool' abomination should learn a harsh lesson.
SBT
Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 14 August, 2012, 09:55:04 AM
i see its imminent cancellation as a good thing, from which the adults in charge of this excruciatingly faux-'cool' abomination should learn a harsh lesson.
I will pass on your comments when I see them leaving the building.
Well now trout, you put me in an awkward position by missing out quoting the bit where i acknowledged the unfortunate effect upon those who earn a living on it. Should i further state that it's an awful shame that the uk newsstands will be missing one long-running title? Or is that obvious, seeing as im writing on a uk comics forum, populated by people whose dearest wishes would take the average uk newsagent back to the heady days of the late seventies and early eighties, when shelves groaned under the weight of kids' weeklies?
However, it doesnt alter the fact that very few people bought the dandy. And id suggest that very few people bought the dandy because it was terrible and their kids (who ultimately request these things and so drive sales) didnt like it.
SBT
My brother used to get the Beano and I (the less cool brother) got the Dandy. Loved the Desperate Dan style from Watkins through to Harrison- Brian Walker's beautiful painted Smasher strips. And this...
(http://www.dandy.com/images/dandyIndex_top.png)
Is not The Dandy I grew up with. Ashamed as I am to be cynical in the face of the closure of a staple of our collective comics heritage it REALLY has been shocking quality for such a protracted time. It wouldn't be fair to buy it purely for nostalgia's sake.
Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 14 August, 2012, 10:35:41 AM
Well now trout, you put me in an awkward position by missing out quoting the bit where i acknowledged the unfortunate effect upon those who earn a living on it.
Well, you described its closure as "a good thing". I've seen too many good people walk out the door over the last couple of years. You and I get along well, SBT, so I was unhappy to see a comment like that from you, especially given your own decision to leave your job.
FWIW, I agree with some negative comment about the title. So many publications - and not just comics - have had an identity crisis as they try to survive. Whether people here hate the glossy Dandy or not, the fact is that some hard-working staff have tried very hard to increase its sales. It's easy to criticise.
Did they try putting it into the electronic sales area, or did they stick with paper sales! Not that is buy it, it was always the poor relation to the Beano to me and I dropped that when I was around 8ish.
Judging from what's happened over the past few years, it looks very much like The Dandy was on 'kill or cure', but also got a few more shots (perhaps due to DCT really not wanting to kill the UK's longest-running comic) than other mags would have. Thing is, as soon as that XTREME!!! (or whatever it was called) version showed up, joined by marketing bilge about it being a lifestyle magazine and children having busy lives that make it hard to fit in a comic, I thought it was doomed. The subsequent over-reliance on celebrity was also a strange decision, given that, as I understand it, SmallBlueThing's experience isn't atypical.
As for the Comics Beat article and The Beano circulation: eek. I'd only heard 38,000 before, not 38,000 per month. Under 10k per issue seems pretty low to me. What a shame. As for this:
QuoteThompson is making sounds about going digital with the title. Will it be enough to save Beryl the Peril and her pals? Stay tuned.
From what I understand, Newsstand on iOS and digital in general is no saviour for the majority of brands. There are some exceptions in very niche areas (the FT, say, with its readership primarily composed of rich people who can splurge on an iPad and the HTML5 app sub), but I can't see The Dandy lasting very long if it pins its hopes on the iPad and other tablets.
Ah, mr trout your maj, i was of course speaking entirely about the product itself and not the related careers of the various people involved. Im sure they will all go off and do great things elsewhere- but what was done to the dandy obviously didnt work- and, to be fair, was seen not to be working for a very long time now. The comic should have had a hasty revamp well over a year ago instead of plugging away at this new style which it seems no one other than a few suited adults in a boadroom liked. If it were up to me, i would of course give it another go and try to bring it back to being more like the beano, which (despite a notable cut in strip pages in favour of 'features' and quizzes) is still a great read and a guaranteed child-pleaser.
However, im aware you may well know the people responsible for the latest dandy personally, trout, and the very last thing i want to do is insult your friends or colleagues!
SBT
It's a shame that such a well known and well loved brand is going down the swanny.
If it really is sub-standard in quality terms though then it is a good thing for the industry that it disappears. Every child that picks up a poor quality comic and doesn't like it is potentially a child put off comics full stop.
SBT: fair enough. Please understand that it's not about suits making decisions. These publications are run by creative people and any changes are based on complex research. By the way, the old-style comics (largely) sell to adults and not to children. I suspect, given their enlightened father, your children aren't the best example of the market. :)
If anyone knows how to make a successful comic, or any printed publication, please post it here.
Every now and then I head over to Lew Stringer's excellent British comics blog 'Blimey'. His latest post is about The Art and History of The Dandy http://lewstringer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/the-little-comic-that-made-history.html Sales in the 1950s: two million copies a week!
Must say, I never got into DC Thomson comics as a kid. I think I bought the Beano twice – and once was so I could join the Dennis the Menace fan club.
I used to love the IPC funnies though and would always buy one to compliment my dose of Marvel weeklies. (If it wasn't for those funnies I wouldn't have seen the ads for 2000AD.)
Even in the 70s I sensed (perhaps incorrectly) that many of the funnies – whether from DC Thomson or IPC were produced by creators from a different era. DC Thomson comics more so. They felt rather old fashioned to me even at the time.
A couple of interesting things that have I come across on Facebook today arising from, or relevant to, the Dandy issue.
First, Laura Sneddon posted these figures from the UK booksellers' industry for the first half of 2012:
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb36/jimcampbell2000/284972_10151361984384676_1357034385_n.jpg)
Which segues rather neatly into Kev Sutherland's blog post (http://kevfcomicart.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/thoughts-on-death-of-dandy.html) on the Dandy's potential demise...
All of which feeds into my unshakeable certainty that the lack of a decent juvenile/teen comic market is a failure of supply, rather than one of demand.
Cheers
Jim
It would be a sad day when The Dandy ceases publication. I used to love getting my copy of The Dandy every week, as a kid in the mid 90s. One of the highlights of every Christmas was getting The Dandy annual from my eldest brother, an annual which would be read over and over again throughout the year.
When I happen to notice The Dandy on the shelves now, it just doesn't look even remotely like the comic I enjoyed so much during my childhood. Obviously I'm probably looking at the period that I read the comic through rosetinted glasses, but it's a real shame to see what The Dandy has now become.
Still, I sincerly hope that The Dandy manages to pull through this and continue publication. It may be a good 15 years since I last read it, but it would be a crying shame to see it go.
Quote from: SuperSurfer on 14 August, 2012, 12:33:31 PM
Even in the 70s I sensed (perhaps incorrectly) that many of the funnies – whether from DC Thomson or IPC were produced by creators from a different era. DC Thomson comics more so. They felt rather old fashioned to me even at the time.
weirdly, that was part of the appeal when I was younger. It was a world I didn't recognise - slipperings, teachers in mortar boards, a 'slap-up feed' as the pinnnacle of human desire - but to me that was just the world of comics. Kids can easilly accept and adapt if they're getting the entertainment, they don't need everything to be cutting-edge relevant.
I ws never a Dandy fan (I was a Beano Boy), and the latest versions do look terrible, but still sad to see a legend pass, not to mention all the people behind it.
Quote from: Dandontdare on 14 August, 2012, 01:32:02 PM
weirdly, that was part of the appeal when I was younger. It was a world I didn't recognise - slipperings, teachers in mortar boards, a 'slap-up feed' as the pinnnacle of human desire - but to me that was just the world of comics. Kids can easilly accept and adapt if they're getting the entertainment, they don't need everything to be cutting-edge relevant
Same here. I never really understood the term 'fish supper' and 'pie supper' until I visited a chip shop in Oban and realised 'supper' in that context is a Scots colloquialism for 'with chips'.
My favourite is still 'Pansy Potter the Strongman's Daughter' which only scans in a Scottish accent.
I don't think the 'living in the past or different world' comment is a fair one re teachers in mortar boards,etc when you consider how children embraced Harry Potter and teachers in gowns in that boarding school. I think the rot set in from a different direction for The Dandy unfortunately
Must admit I stared agog at that picture on the previous page of what the Dandy has become. What a travesty of a national treasure. Needs to be put out of its misery.
But whats meeting that increased demand? From a position of complete ignorance I wonder if those sales are actually accounted for by the market in nostalgia collections, like those giant books collecting Commando stories and the like. Rather than kids wanting to read comics?
As I say that's speculation from a position of ignorance and happy to be shot down...
Also the growth is impressive but its still a very low (??? more ignorance) figure overall, tied with books about energy and electrical engineering. Which I'm guessing is a pretty small specialist market and ten times smaller than romance novels, which I imagine is a decent size market.
There will be pieces on this on both bbc scotland and STV tonight, I know this as I just signed both in to talk to that nice Dr Murray from Dundee Uni...
Speaking as a fan, and an occasional contributor, I feel pretty gutted by this news. The Dandy was the first publication to offer me a chance of professional work. Something i'll always be beyond grateful for...
Childhood dream fulfilling stuff. I salute the good-ship Dandy, and hope it's not completely the end.
Quote from: Dandontdare on 14 August, 2012, 01:32:02 PM
It was a world I didn't recognise - slipperings, teachers in mortar boards, a 'slap-up feed' as the pinnnacle of human desire - but to me that was just the world of comics.
Yes, and constant run-ins with the 'parky', fizzy pop etc. None of that was the language we used as kids. But yes, there was something quite appealing about it and dare I say it quite quaint. At least in comparison to the hip and zany writing of Stan Lee.
Nevertheless, I will be saddened to see such a long running title disappear from newsagents shelves.
Quote from: James Stacey on 14 August, 2012, 01:48:37 PM
Quote from: Dandontdare on 14 August, 2012, 01:32:02 PM
weirdly, that was part of the appeal when I was younger. It was a world I didn't recognise - slipperings, teachers in mortar boards, a 'slap-up feed' as the pinnnacle of human desire - but to me that was just the world of comics. Kids can easilly accept and adapt if they're getting the entertainment, they don't need everything to be cutting-edge relevant
Same here. I never really understood the term 'fish supper' and 'pie supper' until I visited a chip shop in Oban and realised 'supper' in that context is a Scots colloquialism for 'with chips'.
My favourite is still 'Pansy Potter the Strongman's Daughter' which only scans in a Scottish accent.
All true. All this stuff was outside of my experience as a kid, but then so was pretty much everything. The world of The Famous Five was as fantastic and arcane as that of Biggles or Narnia, so slipperings and suppers and Sir in the Beano and the Dandy were just absorbed in the same way - the unique texture of that fiction.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 14 August, 2012, 02:14:50 PM
Which I'm guessing is a pretty small specialist market and ten times smaller than romance novels, which I imagine is a decent size market.
Worth noting that the "Romance & Sagas" category is actually the statistical outlier in that table, being an order of magnitude larger than almost all the other categories (in fact, it's almost as much as all the others added together).
So... I would suggest comparing the figures for either the Superhero category or the Children's Comic Strip categories to it doesn't yield much useful (other than suggesting that someone ought to be reprinting romance comics) when we could productively be asking how to capitalise on this, assuming it is a trend.
(And, historically, comics have always done well in economically trying times.)
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 14 August, 2012, 03:44:23 PM
So... I would suggest comparing the figures for either the Superhero category or the Children's Comic Strip categories to it doesn't yield much useful (other than suggesting that someone ought to be reprinting romance comics)
For all their perceived faults DC seems to agree...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Showcase-Presents-Young-Love-Vol/dp/1781160600/ref=sr_1_22?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344956060&sr=1-22 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Showcase-Presents-Young-Love-Vol/dp/1781160600/ref=sr_1_22?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344956060&sr=1-22)
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb36/jimcampbell2000/284972_10151361984384676_1357034385_n.jpg)
I'm assuming Judge Dredd comes uder Law General and Reference?
I really hope 2000AD never becomes a 'national treasure'.
Colin Smith's glowing review of the modern Dandy: http://toobusythinkingboutcomics.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/on-dandy-readers-roulette-25.html
I hope the Dandy survives. But if it does die, it'll die proud.
Just had a look in the local whsmiths. Any reason why the Dandy is a third more expensive for the same content as the Beano? That's a hell of a difference
Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 14 August, 2012, 09:55:04 AMit has a disasterous leaning towards cultural characters whom the target audience just dont care about (harry hill, notably, but david cameron, simon cowell, etc) and the abandoning of traditional comic strip cartooning in favour of manga-influenced angular shapes has given us pages of badly-drawn crap with often only one or two gags per page.
The Harry Hill stuff was one of the best written stories after the revamp, (though I have no argument with regards the other celebrities), and I thought the funniest and most appealing stuff was by Jamie Smart, whose art you'd probably put in the "manga-influenced angular shapes" bracket. His Desperate Dan might look different from how you remember (or prefer), but the stories are arguably some of the best there's been since Dudley D Watkins was drawing it.
Incidentally, I bought an issue a couple of months back and the celebrity guff seemed to have been drastically cut down on, and Harry Hill was nowhere to be seen.
I've not picked up a copy in 20 years so I'm not qualified to comment on the quality but as with anything else market forces will dictate its fate. Do kids today want pay two quid for a plastic toy and a poorly drawn, celebrity fawning comic? Doubtful if that's what's being offered, and going by the pictures and comments posted so far, it is.
I remember buying the Beano, Dandy the Topper, Jackpot and Whizzer & Chips for 8p each and I had change for some Spangles and a Splicer. But we didn't have the internet and drugs back then...
Actually, I've just realised the issue I bought was the jubilee thing featured in the blog which Mr. Ewing posted a link to. (I think it was the pig in a hat going 'woof' what made me do it.)
I think everything should stay the same as it was when we were children. If it changes, it's wrong.
And EEEEVIL.
I am sorry so many people are now feeling as I did the day Whoopee! bit the dust.
I don't think the Dandy has ever been funnier than it is these days. Reminds of Oink! or Krazy. It actually sells the same amount per month as it did before the revamp (prior to that, it was a fortnightly). It's biggest sellers are the ones with a cheap piece of plastic tat attached for 50p extra. They tried without it. Didn't sell.
The Dandy was failing. They tried making it Xtreme lifestyle mag with comics. Didn't work. They tried making it all comic, cheaper than the Beano and with tv characters kids liked. Didn't work. One last throw is to announce it might close. I hope it works but I'm not going to put any money on it.
I presume that means no relaunch of Warlord then too?
Maybe they just need a decent marketing campaign?
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/MalcolmKirk/TheBananaRises.jpg)
Hopefully this is a bit of a non story. The last ABC figures from the comics uksite have the Dandy and Beano for the period june to dec 2011 as follows
The Dandy 7,489 (7,448) UP
The Beano 38,333 (37,145) UP
They are under the impression that these are weekly sales figures.
As to the quality its top notch, every bit as good, if not more zany than the Beano.
We tried the relaunch Dandy when it came out, and neither of my two oldest liked it, too many tele references that they didnt get.
But we have been getting it again and Brendan loves it, he loves the skit on Batman and the avengers, and he loves Jaime Smarts stuff, he does'nt know the name but he knows the style.
And Like MIK says, Dan is absolutly brilliant, I never liked Dan, he always seem old fashioned, Smart has made it funny. Gary Northfield has done some good stuff as well, and the 3 panel strips are a kind of throwback to the Topper. It does remind me a bit of Oink when it came out.
It would be shame if it does die, but I suppose everything has an end.
What were the numbers for the old 'hatch, match and despatch' model? It's shocking to see such a low distribution for both Beano and Dandy. Could an 'exciting new announcement for all readers' be heading their way.
The numbers used to be significantly higher than that, IIRC around 100,000 at one time. But no comics sell anywhere near that figure now. I suspect the more likely scenario is Dandy will end (I'm hearing as early as September now) and a few popular characters will end up in the Beano.
I was more a Beano-boy. I did read the Nutty though (that's the one where Bananaman started) and I got the Dandy regularly when the Nutty joined with it (i.e. folded).
I haven't read the Beano or Dandy in recent years apart from a quick perusal of The Beano in W H Smiths a while back, but this is a big shame.
I'm a big shocked at reading about all the changes with the incorporation of lots of celebrities, etc! And that Art style isn't what I remember, although I wouldn't say it's particularly bad. Not really my cup of tea though.
Here's hoping the Beano continues to sell well, and it would be good if some of the Dandy characters continue in some form be it digital or as part of The Beano. Desperate Dan and Bananaman in particular.
It was always The Buster for me. Had better artwork and more colour IIRC. Whizzer and Chips was good, too, and I always had a soft spot for The Beano.
Never really cared for The Dandy if I'm honest.
Dandy numbers may be low, but the Beano is "only" selling 38, 000 copies a week?
Marvel's Wolverine sells less copies than that every month, and that's in North America.
I cant see the need for the reimaging of main characters. As a kid I was happy with the art style. Maybe this is one of the reasons of the decline.
(http://www.tvcream.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/increasinglydesperate.jpg)
V
Online-only from December (http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=1&storycode=49862&c=1), which is, to say the least, depressing.
Quote from: vzzbux on 16 August, 2012, 09:58:18 AM
I cant see the need for the reimaging of main characters. As a kid I was happy with the art style. Maybe this is one of the reasons of the decline.
(http://www.tvcream.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/increasinglydesperate.jpg)
V
I agree its all in the detail. I loved buying it when i were but a nipper because of the detail and care and love the artists you used to instill in each character. I spent ages trying to emulate the drawing styles because of that very detail. Same reason I used to buy the Topper and Monster Fun not so much the stories but the art. Pandering to the masses and diluting the style for a pseudo manga trend is where they've gone wrong imho.
But these are the opinions of 40yr old men, who are not the target audience. For my Money, Jamie Smart is one of the greatest talents we have in British comics at the moment.
Quote from: Richmond Clements on 16 August, 2012, 01:31:26 PM
But these are the opinions of 40yr old men, who are not the target audience. For my Money, Jamie Smart is one of the greatest talents we have in British comics at the moment.
Though the hard truth is, given the circulation figures, it would seem that the target audience isn't interested either. It could be argued that more to do with a lack of interest in comics, but if the Beano is able to sustain a significantly higher audience something is amiss with the Dandy specifically?
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 16 August, 2012, 01:08:40 PM
Online-only from December (http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=1&storycode=49862&c=1), which is, to say the least, depressing.
Still, not as bad as it could have been. They're continuing online at least.
Not ideal though when considering the younger age of the target audience.
The main problem historically with the Dandy has always appeared to be it's not the Beano.
Quote from: Richmond Clements on 16 August, 2012, 01:31:26 PM
But these are the opinions of 40yr old men, who are not the target audience.
Worse than that, Rich: 40 year-old
sci-fi fans. We're the last people whose opinion should be sought on anything at all.
Korky the Cat: London Rioter?
No I don't think the Pat Mills treatment would work really. Take something quaint and beef it up is not going to save the Dandy which was very much of it's time. Also the Title itself has all sorts of negative connotations politically incorrect though that might be to say so.
Not for one minute would an average Nintendo Junkie brat be caught dead reading a comic with that title. Oddly phrased Japanese game related characters Yes; Dandy -No.
Quote from: IAMTHESYSTEM on 16 August, 2012, 02:44:48 PM
Korky the Cat: London Rioter?
No I don't think the Pat Mills treatment would work really. Take something quaint and beef it up is not going to save the Dandy which was very much of it's time. Also the Title itself has all sorts of negative connotations politically incorrect though that might be to say so.
Not for one minute would an average Nintendo Junkie brat be caught dead reading a comic with that title. Oddly phrased Japanese game related characters Yes; Dandy -No.
It's a dated word, sure, but does the word 'dandy' have some other meaning that I'm unaware of?
McNulty: "You know what they call a guy who pays that much attention to his clothes, don't you?"
Bunk: "A grown-up."
I can't see Dandy having any reference to a child these days other than the comic itself. Same goes for the Beano for that matter.
Dandy, Beano and their short-lived sister title Magic all took their names from contemporary words meaning "great".
Or possibly "radical", "wicked" or something else that young people say now.
Groovy.
Quote from: Trout on 16 August, 2012, 03:25:10 PM
Dandy, Beano and their short-lived sister title Magic all took their names from contemporary words meaning "great".
Or possibly "radical", "wicked" or something else that young people say now.
Groovy.
Surely Beezer falls into the same pattern as well?
Quote from: Trout on 16 August, 2012, 03:25:10 PM
Dandy, Beano and their short-lived sister title Magic all took their names from contemporary words meaning "great".
Or possibly "radical", "wicked" or something else that young people say now.
Groovy.
Based on what I hear from the local 5 and 6 year olds round here the Dandy should change it's name to "Fucking Mint That" to appeal to the youth of today.
Quote from: GordonR on 16 August, 2012, 03:03:15 PM
Quote from: IAMTHESYSTEM on 16 August, 2012, 02:44:48 PM
Also the Title itself has all sorts of negative connotations politically incorrect though that might be to say so.
It's a dated word, sure, but does the word 'dandy' have some other meaning that I'm unaware of?
I was inside a Fopp yesterday. It didn't occur to me that there was anything wrong with being there at the time.
Quote from: M.I.K. on 16 August, 2012, 03:35:13 PM
I was inside a Fopp yesterday. It didn't occur to me that there was anything wrong with being there at the time.
I'm a Dapper Dan man, myself.
Cheers!
Jim
Wasn't A Beano a great big feast?
It was but it could also be used as stated. 'That's beano', 'That's (fine and) dandy'.
Beezer and Whizzer work likewise
Top-hole!
I always used to buy Top Hole Magazine before the Internet came along...
Just saw this cover on Bleeding Cool. First time I've looked at the Dandy in many years.
Is that the new Korky Cat below the Y in Dandy?
If it is that's a corking little redesign. If not it should have been. :)
(http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads//2012/08/harry-247x350.jpg?848685)
Yep. Korky.
So from that image, do I take it that celebrities aren't just cameoing in The Dandy (which is fair enough if done moderately) but they're actually characters with their own strips?
Dear me.
Quote from: Mardroid on 16 August, 2012, 04:34:09 PM
So from that image, do I take it that celebrities aren't just cameoing in The Dandy (which is fair enough if done moderately) but they're actually characters with their own strips?
A very long-established tradition in British comics, in fairness.
My personal problem with this is that my kids don't watch kill-the-pig telly or soul-crushing soaps*, because
we don't and we've only got the one telly, so most of this sort of celeb-humour is wasted on them** (of course Deadly 60 is another thing entirely - great show.). I think this is a subtly different matter than the use of archaic situations and lingo, or even to the likes of TV21 or TV Comic of my distant youth.
Anyway, what I actually strolled over to this thread to say was that this is a sad, sad day for anyone who loves comics. RIP Dandy, may your virtual existence be a fruitful one.
*Harry Hill now, that's another matter: that man can make me laugh myself sick just by raising an eyebrow. He is to my funny bone what Kelly Brook is to my, erm,
other bone. I know it's wrong, I know it's LCD and easy targets all the way, but I can't resist either of them.
** I do worry that I'm leading my children into social isolation by not sitting down in the evening to a diet of hateful shite, but fukkit, as a kid I had plenty of mates who didn't even have a telly in the house and it never did them any harm. Indeed, one my best friends hardly ever lets her kids near the telly - remarkably her eldest (5 1/2) believed that Dora and Scooby only existed in books and comics until a recent weekend staying over with her slightly-less-patient uncle and aunt opened up the world of animation... and she's about the brighest most sociable little tyke I've ever met.
Quote from: Dunk! on 16 August, 2012, 04:08:05 PM(http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads//2012/08/harry-247x350.jpg?848685)
If this is what a generation of kids think the Dandy is...
sigh.
It's certainly not how I'll remember it.
The Dandy dropped the celebrities a good while ago. They brought them in as the 'lifestyle magazine' Dandy Xtreme wasn't working, which was brought in coz the relaunched Dandy with the new contemporary feel and Jak and Todd wasn't working, which was brought in coz the traditional Dandy with the line art we grew up with wasn't working.
DCT have tried everything to keep the Dandy a going concern. These changes weren't for the sake of it. Classics from the Comics finished a good while ago due to people not being interested enough in traditional line art. The Beano probably just has some strong characters that kids can identify with, i.e. Dennis the Menace and the Bash Street Kids. I'm not sure Desperate Dan can compete with them, and it's not easy writing a winning character.
The annual still sells well, although I'm really not sure the web-Dandy will survive in any meaningful format. Summer Specials might well be of interest but I don't think DCT will think it worth a risk.
BTW, some of us on the Comics UK forum are thinking of getting a Dandy-ish comic together. Anyone fancies joining in, please let me know. Either there, PM me or see the contacts on the Starscape website. After all, there's 8,000 fans wanting a children's humour comic. Anyone up for Whizzer'n'Chips meets the Dandy? Profit share (if any) naturally.
No decision yet according to this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-19248459
and as someone mentioned on the comics uk site, the 75th anniversary is in december, so it will hopefully be safe till then.
Anyone who hasnt got it for the kids it in a while, its worth a punt for the Jamie Smart stuff alone, and the celebs are all gone too.
Quote from: maryanddavid on 16 August, 2012, 06:37:43 PM
No decision yet according to this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-19248459
That story was from a few days ago; even the BBC News website has a more recent take: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-19284222
John Wagner's tribute:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19293866 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19293866)
QuoteThat story was from a few days ago; even the BBC News website has a more recent take: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-19284222
Ill have to say Im really gutted. Surprisingly so, I was never an avid reader when I was a kid.
Kudos to DCT for keeping it going for so long, they have tried hard to keep it afloat and considering practically all of its rival comics from the eighties are dead over twenty years they have done a good job.
Its good to read that they are not letting the brand go altogether, be interesting to see what happens in digital Dandytown when it happens.
Makes me thinks of how lucky we are with Rebellion, like DCT they seem to care about the comic. 2000ad probably wouldnt still be here but for them.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this already, but there was an issue of the Dandy many years ago where The Jocks and The Geordies lampooned Judge Dredd. It had one of the characters riding around in uniform on a bicycle/lawmaster, dispensing justice via the bike turnip cannons. I saved that copy of the Dandy - its hidden away in one of my many boxes of comics.
Did anyone else read it?
John Wagner on the demise of The Dandy (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19293866)
Has the Dandy not suffered enough?
Not yet it hasn't...
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c118/button71/desperate_dan_11.jpg)
Now rest my child.
Just look at that big belly and ridiculous chin. I blame all the pies...
http://www.fumboo.com/category/blog/ (http://www.fumboo.com/category/blog/)
Some great thoughts here from artist Jamie Smart (he of the "manga-influenced angular shapes" and "pages of badly-drawn crap", presumably.)
Quote from: Judge Jack on 17 August, 2012, 06:04:30 PM
John Wagner on the demise of The Dandy (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19293866)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19293866 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19293866)
Cheers,
Jack, but I'm not sure the pathos of that article is engendered exclusively by the demise of
The Dandy. As with everything Wagner writes, it's pregnant with subtext.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c118/button71/hiex2012039.jpg)
Quote from: Pete Wells on 17 August, 2012, 06:24:16 PM
Just look at that big belly and ridiculous chin. I blame all the pies...
This is truely tragic, decades of publishing excellence and talent about to disappear! :-(
... Can't Rebellion offer a take over bid!? Then we could have Dredd / Dan crossovers!
;)
Quote from: dracula1 on 18 August, 2012, 12:33:35 PM
... Can't Rebellion offer a take over bid!? Then we could have Dredd / Dan crossovers!
This might be my imagination but hasn't that happened already. In the Comic Relief issue or some such?
There was something about the biggest chin in comics, then Brucie stepped in... (I think)
Yep. Dan, Dredd, Dare and I think banana man. Brucie won.
Those last couple of witty comments regarding chins and crossovers have tickled my funny bone! ... Snigger! Guff! etc.
I hope that if Dandy goes under the Company doesn't do a skip and pulp job on all its wonderful archived artwork (as has happened in the past). :(
Isnt merging The Dandy with The Beano an option?
Good idea .... Similar to 2000ad merging with StarLord and Tornado.
Quote from: dracula1 on 18 August, 2012, 04:52:20 PM
I hope that if Dandy goes under the Company doesn't do a skip and pulp job on all its wonderful archived artwork (as has happened in the past). :(
Rest assured: no chance. A new, massive archive has been created.
Quote from: Judge Jack on 18 August, 2012, 05:15:44 PM
Isnt merging The Dandy with The Beano an option?
Yesterday's
Daily Record reported that Desperate Dan was set to become a regular feature in
The Beano (
LINK (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/desperate-dan-to-transfer-to-the-beano-1265312)) ... but without any actual quotes or references to back that up. The print edition of that story had a nice
Coup Pie headline, though- which only works if you read it in your best Billy Connolly/Mike Myers voice.
I'd be surprised if someone at DCT hadn't thought of bundling
Dandy material with
The Beano as a once-a-month incentive, similar to the way
The Megazine incorporated
2000ad Extreme.
And Charlie Brooker's take on this.
Reports of the Dandy's death are greatly exaggerated
"Insulted by progress, affronted by change, they prefer everything kept just the way it was when they last saw it."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/19/reports-dandy-death-greatly-exaggerated?INTCMP=SRCH
Hey, remember I mentioned that Dandy I had with the Jocks vs Geordies Dredd spoof? I found it! Here it is!
It was from an issue in 1983. I found it mixed up in my old 2000ADs.
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x32/scowling_monkey/18f5eab751cb75330d197ebd19a121f1.jpg)
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x32/scowling_monkey/cf3bf0f37c2b76907ef6ceabd1b63fd6.jpg)
Somebody needs to show that to John Wagner.
Are you sure that's from 1983? Date on the pages would suggest '87.
Quote from: SuperSurfer on 21 August, 2012, 11:20:35 AM
And Charlie Brooker's take on this.
Reports of the Dandy's death are greatly exaggerated
"Insulted by progress, affronted by change, they prefer everything kept just the way it was when they last saw it."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/19/reports-dandy-death-greatly-exaggerated?INTCMP=SRCH
I like the bit where he continues: "Anyone mourning the death of the print edition of the Dandy, even for half a second, is a staggering egotist who earnestly believes him or herself to be a supreme deity whose every belch and fart should be bottled for posterity. Jail the scum. Jail them hard. Jail their heads off. Throw the jail at them. Jail." (tip- read the rest of the article in context before leaping on that quote - he actually makes somegood points in a rather OTT way.)
"He's guilty of having an offensive face"
I didn't even know that was a crime! Quick get the cops to Proudhuff Mansions immediately!
I like Brooker but is he actually suggesting that going electronic only is a good thing? Does every kid in the UK suddenly have access to ipads and pc's? How do you get the free gifts? Do you print the posters?
As an adult comic fan I have the option of both but would always choose paper.
In short he's talking shite!
Slightly related - there was a challenge on B3TA about British comics following the Dandy news.
I thought this was quite sweet.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HptPtZLKwbc/UDNdcgAr3XI/AAAAAAAAC88/YrjLJkHUlPI/s1600/mega-city-kids.jpg)
I'd buy it for that strip alone ;)
Is that one of Kev Sutherland's sneaky 2000ad references? He also managed a "gaze into the fist of Dennis" once, and a Bash Street Kids cover that was an homage to that classic old vs new x-men cover.
and he does funny things with socks.
Quote from: M.I.K. on 21 August, 2012, 05:39:33 PM
Somebody needs to show that to John Wagner.
Are you sure that's from 1983? Date on the pages would suggest '87.
You're quite right, sorry. It was issue no. 2394, dated October 10th, 1987. That was my fairground mirror memory playing up again.
Quote from: shaolin_monkey on 21 August, 2012, 05:33:31 PM
Hey, remember I mentioned that Dandy I had with the Jocks vs Geordies Dredd spoof? I found it! Here it is! It was from an issue in 1983. I found it mixed up in my old 2000ADs.
So that's where they got the designs for the Stallone film's uniform. Pity they didn't copy the bike too.
Very, very sad news this :(
Was at the launch of the 75 years of the Dandy book at the Edinburgh Book Festival last week which was attended by the current editor and there was no mention of any problems but I am aware this has been bubbling away for a while.
Personally I think they lost their identity a lot (and a lot of readers) when they messed with the dandy Xtreme thing and then seem to have gone through a few re-brands and changes ever since, perhaps in increased desperation! I know my son (now 9) reads the Beano religiously but loves old Desperate Dan and Dandy's but didn't like the 'new' Dandy much for a long time. Ironically he now loves the latest version, still bemoaning the changes to Desperate Dan though, but perhaps it's all too late to save the comic :(
I hear the last issue will be on the 75th anniversary itself and will include a fee copy of the first - methinks that's a collectors edition of the future!
Quote from: Satanist on 21 August, 2012, 07:01:14 PM
As an adult comic fan I have the option of both but would always choose paper.
The target audience of the Dandy clearly feels differently, otherwise it would have sold better.
Cheers
Jim
Pat Mills just tweeted about this terrific recent Guardian article about girls' comics.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/aug/18/jinty-misty-girls-comics-dandy
Quote from: Dandontdare on 21 August, 2012, 07:50:37 PM
Kev Sutherland's sneaky 2000ad references
I'm not sure if he would have needed to sneak anything in. They'd have known exactly what he was doing. Each time it's just a question of what works in the strip. :)
Quote from: CraveNoir on 22 August, 2012, 09:09:44 AM
Pat Mills just tweeted about this terrific recent Guardian article about girls' comics.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/aug/18/jinty-misty-girls-comics-dandy
I never read any Girls' comics but the stuff described concerning Misty sounds right up my street.
And there was me back in the day thinking girls' comics were all about soppy stuff. (Mind you, considering the names I think that's understandable.)
Misty is a quality read.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 22 August, 2012, 07:26:18 AM
Quote from: Satanist on 21 August, 2012, 07:01:14 PM
As an adult comic fan I have the option of both but would always choose paper.
The target audience of the Dandy clearly feels differently, otherwise it would have sold better.
Cheers
Jim
I dont think the target audience of the Dandy are flocking to Web comics though. I think they are buying comics with characters they actually recognise. Stuff like Scooby Doo, Ben 10 and Batman.
I would liken the Dandy trying to reinvent itself as to dads dancing at a wedding. Not cool.
Quote from: CraveNoir on 22 August, 2012, 09:09:44 AM
Pat Mills just tweeted about this terrific recent Guardian article about girls' comics.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/aug/18/jinty-misty-girls-comics-dandy
In the comment section of that article, Sean Phillips-
the Sean Phillips- recalls getting his break in comics illustrating
Bunty. The compound interest on the debt owed to DCT by
2000ad readers could subsidise
The Dandy for decades to come.
Quote from: bikini kill on 22 August, 2012, 10:14:26 PM
Quote from: CraveNoir on 22 August, 2012, 09:09:44 AM
Pat Mills just tweeted about this terrific recent Guardian article about girls' comics.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/aug/18/jinty-misty-girls-comics-dandy
In the comment section of that article, Sean Phillips- the Sean Phillips- recalls getting his break in comics illustrating Bunty. The compound interest on the debt owed to DCT by 2000ad readers could subsidise The Dandy for decades to come.
Nice work for a 15 year old.
(http://www.seanphillips.co.uk/imgs/oldstuff/9.jpg)
Cheers, CYCLOPZ. You can see where Danzig's Inferno came from, can't you?
Late to this conversation, but I think it's a shame the latest revamp of the Dandy didn't take. It was at least an attempt to make something new and contemporary rather than try to slavishly reproduce what made it successful 75 years ago. Jamie Smart, who is the best kids' cartoonist in the world, actually made Desperate Dan funny again! Poor Dan hadn't been funny for decades, and he was only there because he'd always been there. I hope at the very least they can keep Jamie's Desperate Dan going in some way.
I believe there is a demand for good kids' comics out there. I bought my niece and nephew a subscription to The Phoenix, and they love it, and they tell me their friends love it too - but you can't get it anywhere. It's only available by subscription, because the terms demanded by the newsstand distributors are apparently outrageous. I dunno, there's magazines on the racks about soap opera characters' hairstyles, and a while back I was in a newsagent in a wee country town and there were NINE magazines about tractors - how do they get distribution and The Phoenix doesn't?
A few years ago, I tried to get news-stand distribution with a company that distributes comic magazines to newsagents. They just weren't interested in comics. They didn't want to see samples, marketing strategies or budgets. It just wasn't a medium that they could get newsagents interested in, despite the other niche titles they carried.
The chain stores charge protection sorting fees to ensure your magazine doesn't "accidentally" end up getting put behind something else by "browsing customers". I think the price quoted was 5-8 grand per issue just to get it on the shelves, the protection sorting fee being something they discuss with you personally.
Smaller newsies don't work like that, but you'd need to get in your car and drive around the country selling your book on an individual basis to each one, which I can't see as being very cost-effective given the low price of the average magazine - though many products are still shifted like this, and I've worked in some industries that still rely heavily on some bloke in a Ford Cortina with a packed lunch to make sure there's something to do next week.
I was thinking of the problem of dragging old titles, strips, and their creators into the modern age, and this affectionate parody of DC Thomson titles and their authors came to mind. I imagine Diggle era 2000ad was a lot like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hh5tyWmFoIU#t=560
I think a big problem with all-ages comics is, there seems to be a lot of people out there trying to create them who are churning out patronising, poorly conceived stuff, unfortunately.
I debate whether something like The Dandy is going to appeal to kids these days, really. Kids who are going to be fussed about having a comic on a regular basis seem to want something a bit more sophisticated in terms of story, these days.
That said: I actually lettered a few things that got submitted to The Phoenix, and I thought they were spot on! No idea if they actually got accepted or not.