You sometimes you start something that you figure will have its challenges but when you dig into it raises so many questions, just so many. For reasons that probably aren't that hard to guess I'm trying to put together a list of all the series to have appeared in 2000ad and The Megazine - aside from Judge Dredd. Simple as that...
Sheesh, oh that it was that simple. So you exclude Dredd, but then do you include America and Deadman in that exclusion? You decide to split Rogue into 'Classic' and 'Friday', but how do you handle Flesh. You decide to bunble Megazine run into 2000ad runs, so all Anderson is together, but is Hershey different to Judge Hershey (I'm going yes)... etc etc.
Anyway I've used the work of Broodblik from a bit over a year ago (thank you sir) as my basis, updated and merging a couple of list he did BUT I suspect a few of you have lists of you own. So if you are willing to share I could use them to cross check things.
I'll also ask a few question over the coming days...
I know you already know about this resource, but I feel the magnificent, but of course still in development 2000 AD A to Z is going to be your friend here:
https://2kstages.github.io/AtoZ.html (https://2kstages.github.io/AtoZ.html)
To be honest I still default to Barney's list of Thrills, but I don't think that'll help much with your dilemmas.
I await with interest to see how you handle the various one/two-off stories that were not run under the banner of 'Future Shocks' for whatever reason... ;)
2022 is shaping up to be a fun year round these parts!
Quote from: AlexF on 04 October, 2021, 08:35:22 AM
I await with interest to see how you handle the various one/two-off stories that were not run under the banner of 'Future Shocks' for whatever reason... ;)
Oh don't at the minute I'm going with ignoring them and hoping everyone forgets they exist!
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 04 October, 2021, 08:47:12 AM
Quote from: AlexF on 04 October, 2021, 08:35:22 AM
I await with interest to see how you handle the various one/two-off stories that were not run under the banner of 'Future Shocks' for whatever reason... ;)
Oh don't at the minute I'm going with ignoring them and hoping everyone forgets they exist!
Actually I quite liked
An Agent Rat Adventure. I'd still like to have a tree house...
Here's Barney's list of Thrills with a count of appearances in Prog, Meg and Specials with a field for which "world" they're part of. I'm pretty loose with that last part: anything tangentially related to Dredd (Pussyfoot 5, I'm looking at you) is classed as Dreddworld but I'm not really interested in the idea that all Pat's strips are one huge continuity.
Barney - Thrill List (gSheets) (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x7I-zi6w7E5FL7cHEMMnRy8BCT1QbWECukHvOzrJV-o/edit?usp=sharing)
Titles for some Meg Dredd thrills probably aren't exactly right (the Janus conundrum) as Barney uses the same code for the character as the strip in some cases.
I've excluded anything which was only reprint and anything that was only in the Action Special. There's a potential issue that the bumper year end Progs 2000 - 2016 are classed as Specials in Barney and I couldn't be arsed to try splitting out those versus actual specials (which are all also included.)
You are good people I, Cosh (Pete) - I'll worry about the fact there are 12 extra thrills on your list than mine - which is exactly why I'm doing this - I see Ack-Ack Macaque already - and use this to add / cross check what I've got...
Looking through Wikipedia they have Rogue spilt into Classic and Friday then further by writers Gerry and others on the Hit storyline then the specials and annuals. They then add the spin offs the 86ers, Venus Bluegenes, Tor Cyan/ Mercy Heights, Jaegir and Hunted adding the IDW Rogue stories.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_Trooper
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 04 October, 2021, 11:15:46 AM
You are good people I, Cosh (Pete) - I'll worry about the fact there are 12 extra thrills on your list than mine - which is exactly why I'm doing this - I see Ack-Ack Macaque already - and use this to add / cross check what I've got...
Stuff like the Batman and Predator crossovers are listed separately. Interested to see what the others are: post them up and we can argue about it.
Oh, the evergreen "One-Off" category might be one. Covers stuff which wasn't printed under a recognisable banner like "Future Shocks" and the like.
Quote from: I, Cosh on 04 October, 2021, 01:25:56 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 04 October, 2021, 11:15:46 AM
You are good people I, Cosh (Pete) - I'll worry about the fact there are 12 extra thrills on your list than mine - which is exactly why I'm doing this - I see Ack-Ack Macaque already - and use this to add / cross check what I've got...
Stuff like the Batman and Predator crossovers are listed separately. Interested to see what the others are: post them up and we can argue about it.
Oh, the evergreen "One-Off" category might be one. Covers stuff which wasn't printed under a recognisable banner like "Future Shocks" and the like.
Supercovers / 7 Wonders of the Galaxy / Holiday and/or Home of the Future (can't remember which, but one of them was due to run in the weekly and ended up in a special instead).
Aye, my A to Z is complete re story titles.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 04 October, 2021, 02:33:33 PM
Aye, my A to Z is complete re story titles.
I'm going to use this for my third pass (hopefully final too) - currently aligning Barney with Broodblik (and my additions). Do some quick chops then (see below) and then run that list past your A-Z Funt Solo as a final check.
Quote from: I, Cosh on 04 October, 2021, 01:25:56 PM
Oh, the evergreen "One-Off" category might be one. Covers stuff which wasn't printed under a recognisable banner like "Future Shocks" and the like.
My current thoughts are these will be left out - on the basis a series implies multiple parts - so two at least. A one-off by definition (not that I've actually looked at a definition) isn't a series and so I'll cut them at the start... discuss...this also removed the confusing aspect of judging Future Shocks as a collected whole - a series of one-offs - rather than as individual stories... if that makes sense ... also it saves me some time and if nothing else I'm a lazy bugger!
Quote from: rogue69 on 04 October, 2021, 12:42:35 PM
Looking through Wikipedia they have Rogue spilt into Classic and Friday then further by writers Gerry and others on the Hit storyline then the specials and annuals. They then add the spin offs the 86ers, Venus Bluegenes, Tor Cyan/ Mercy Heights, Jaegir and Hunted adding the IDW Rogue stories.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_Trooper
This is a good example of the things to think about. So I've got Rogue as Rogue (Classic), Rogue (Friday) and all the in-universe stories as their own series. That begs the question how to consider the stories where they try to unpick the continuity mess it became and I go with - welllllll that's up to you but I think we can consider them in both if you like as they impact the story from both series (... or just ignore as they were a bit rubbish!).
I've got a similar, but different issue with Sinister Dexter. When I saw Downlobe Tales I was all like ... well they get wrapped into Sinister Dexter as they continue the same storyline as the 'main' series... but then saw Malone and thought.... BBUUUTTTTT I kinda want to seperate that out AND then I though about what I'm thinking for Strontium Dog(s) Tales from the Dog House and just kinda shrugged for now!
Wikipedia has this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_AD_(comics)#Lists_of_stories (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_AD_(comics)#Lists_of_stories)
Quote from: Richard on 04 October, 2021, 05:26:10 PM
Wikipedia has this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_AD_(comics)#Lists_of_stories (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_AD_(comics)#Lists_of_stories)
And there are two lists there 2000ad Stories and 2000ad minor stories - but I think the latter is just of subset of the larger list...
I think you missed the .pdf lists.
Quote from: Richard on 04 October, 2021, 05:43:42 PM
I think you missed the .pdf lists.
Oh I did your right - they are very useful and have already confirmed something I'd missed...
Right so from a quick filter and sort and stuff there are now 381 thrills on the 'long list' of which 330 are defo going to be included and another 51 therefore that need consideration for one reason or another... getting there, getting there.
Thank you for all the pointers, lists what not.... will try to start to get some questions for feedback up from tomorrow...
Regarding one-offs: I chose to place things with more than one episode as series - so something like Maze Dumoir or Agent Rat get their own sections under that rule.
It was tempting to banner them either as two-offs, or just a short series category, but hey ho. I didn't.
Some one-offs are more important than others, and things like "Shok!" and "Wynter" are buried in my index as a sub-sub-category: One-Offs | Dreddverse (https://2kstages.github.io/AtoZ/OneOffs/Dreddverse.html#baseMenu).
I think with Sinister Dexter it ultimately makes sense to have all of it as one thing. Dabnett is having lots of fun at the moment titling episodes as either 'Sinister' or 'Dexter' as the pov fits, but these, along with Downlode Tales and Malone really are telling one continuous story. I grant you that it'd be fun to single out Malone as its own thing, and of course we are all free to make our own exceptions! It's an especially good story, after all.
I'm also all for keeping Classic Rogue, Fr1day Rogue and Tor Cyan as separate entities, even when characters from each story overlap. The only one I'm confused by is Rogue TrooperS, which is both a Friday story and a Venus Bluegenes story - and otherwise I'd keep them well apart from each other...
Using the Malone rule, I'm tempted to ask for 'the War Machine' to be considered its own thing. Talk about a masterpiece dragged into the toilet by what came after..!
Quote from: AlexF on 05 October, 2021, 09:34:01 AM
...I'm tempted to ask for 'the War Machine' to be considered its own thing. Talk about a masterpiece dragged into the toilet by what came after..!
Ohhhh that is a good idea. I'll see where I land with the Sinister Dexter decision and if I go seperate there I'll do the same with War Machine has had ot own release under that title wth no reference to 'Rogue Trooper' so I'll see how I land overall with that...
What about [spoiler]The Vort[/spoiler]?
Quote from: I, Cosh on 05 October, 2021, 10:07:46 AM
What about [spoiler]The Vort[/spoiler]?
Good point - I guess the [problem I'll have if i do it for one I open a can of worms... so Dead Eyes is currently listed seperately as well I think...
Reckon there's a whole qualifying group in "stories where it turns out the lead is actually an existing character."
Arh none of that qualifying and groups stuff here - I've learnt my lesson and we're back to the purity of a knockouts - its just a BIG knockout!
Have you revisited Prog 2000 lately? where they had a big knockout tournament not of 'which thrill is best', but of 'which character would beat each other in a fight'.
Good thing they did it before the debut of Shakara or I reckon the vengeance alien may have had it sewn up.
That was fun.
Quote from: AlexF on 06 October, 2021, 09:03:48 AM
Have you revisited Prog 2000 lately? where they had a big knockout tournament not of 'which thrill is best', but of 'which character would beat each other in a fight'.
Good thing they did it before the debut of Shakara or I reckon the vengeance alien may have had it sewn up.
That was fun.
Well funny you should mention that but that is one of the things that made me do these tourney's in the first place and just that tourney is on the list and was actually meant to be next BUT I decided I really wanted to get one done for 'Series' and foolishly thought that would be easier to prep given I was behind in my prep work... oh you naive fool Taylor ... and so at the last minute (this weekend!) made the call and started to do the prep for a Series tourney rather than my 'Battle Royale' Prog 2000ad update tourney...
... I maybe regreting that decision now!
Decisions no.1*
One-offs don't count by definition and unless I hear howls of derision (or someone points out I'm wrong) that rules out:
Ack-ack Macaque
Bones of Eden
Brass and Bland
Cabal
Deathwatch
Evangelyne
Judge Fear
Judge Joyce
Memento
Repo-Mex
Shaun of the Dead
Spector
Starlord
Stix
Superbean
The Kleggs
The Lord Weird Slough Feg
Wulf Sternhammer
Wynter
* Very possibly in a series of one which would be an irony BUT many of these will be questions I suspect to canvas options!
Oh, is this the first round?
01. Superbean.
02. Bones of Eden.
03. Spector.
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 08 October, 2021, 04:13:30 PM
One-offs don't count by definition...
Then off the top of my head you're missing The Pioneer; Homer the Barbarian; and Candy and the Catchman.
I think a lot of folk count untitled one-offs as Future Shocks, even if they don't explicitly have the label.
The actual number of one-offs is HUGE (https://2kstages.github.io/AtoZ/OneOffs/2000AD.html).
---
Man, no Wynter? But ... but ...
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 08 October, 2021, 04:50:44 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 08 October, 2021, 04:13:30 PM
One-offs don't count by definition...
Then off the top of my head you're missing The Pioneer; Homer the Barbarian; and Candy and the Catchman.
They haven't even made it onto the list I was chopping from luckily
Quote from: Funt Solo on 08 October, 2021, 05:15:07 PM
I think a lot of folk count untitled one-offs as Future Shocks, even if they don't explicitly have the label.
Yeah and Superbean for me is the classic example of that. I'm always surprised when I see its not a Future Shock. When it comes to the votes for Future Shocks folks can of course do just that.
Okay next decision / question.
What do folks think of this one. I'm currently erring on the side of including material that is reprint established elsewhere - as its a series that appeared in Tharg's realm... but there is a danger here. This would include the following strips (but only the material from which appeared in the Prog or Meg:
Charley's War
Dept of Monsterology
Lilly Mackenzie
Preacher
Razorjack
Sin City
The Bogie Man (was this new Bogie man material though?)
Folks who don't consider it a 2000ad / Meg strip can of course decide to express that by note voting for it. THE big problem I see is that Charley's War is so damned good it could win the whole thing... which would be weird BUT they are series that have appeared.
I'm easy to sway here if a good counter is put forward - so any opinions are welcome...
In that case you'd need to include Hellboy as well, no?
Thank you - that wasn't on the list!
Quote from: Funt Solo on 08 October, 2021, 05:15:07 PM
I think a lot of folk count untitled one-offs as Future Shocks, even if they don't explicitly have the label.
The actual number of one-offs is HUGE (https://2kstages.github.io/AtoZ/OneOffs/2000AD.html).
Out of interest Funt, what's your criteria for a thrill being a one-off? For instance, I see you've got the three Rennie/Irving solo tales (Reefer Madness, Mars Needs Mates and Monsters of Rock) listed as One-offs.
These ran as Tharg's Terror Tales; they're listed on Barney as TTs; the scripts explicitly subtitle them as TTs; and they're subtitled (or rather superheaded) as TTs in the
Storming Heaven graphic novel.
There's this from the website too: https://shop.2000ad.com/series
Quote from: Pyroxian on 10 October, 2021, 02:01:52 PM
There's this from the website too: https://shop.2000ad.com/series
Thanks Pyroxian - I stumbled across that when searching for info to confirm the 'one-off'ness of some of the ... well one-offs and its been invaluable. I've been using it as my primary source, alongside the Barney list to refine my starting list and a few decisions aside we're almost there.
Speaking of which next question. A relatively simple one. Movie 'Dredd' is clearly a different series to 'Judge Dredd' I don't think will confuse the vote and I'll be including movie 'Anderson' so at the moment I'm inclined to include it as 'Dredd (Movie)' - what do folks think?
QuoteReefer Madness, Mars Needs Mates and Monsters of Rock) listed as One-offs.
These ran as Tharg's Terror Tales
From memory, I don't think they were listed or titled as Terror Tales when they were published in the prog.
Quote from: Richard on 10 October, 2021, 02:15:31 PM
QuoteReefer Madness, Mars Needs Mates and Monsters of Rock) listed as One-offs.
These ran as Tharg's Terror Tales
From memory, I don't think they were listed or titled as Terror Tales when they were published in the prog.
Aye - I went with how things were published in the original progs. (Not saying that's especially correct: just what I did.)
Regarding reprints, I'd tend to not include the following:
- Charley's War
- Darkie's Mob
- Guinea Pig
- Hellboy
- Lazarus Churchyard
- The Phantom Patrol
- Preacher
- Sin City
- Smokeman / U.F.O. Agent
And my reasoning is that they're not really 2000AD.
From your list, I'd also ditch:
- Dept. of Monsterology, because it was just a prologue one-off.
- Razorjack, because (excepting the Dredd crossover) it was just a one-off.
Arh now see these are becoming problematic as I've clearly not got a full list... on any of the lists I'm using .... I might need to jettison them on that basis. If I do however I'm in trouble as to how to draw a line. I'd missed all the Annual and Special stuff (Phantom Patrol etc), didn't spot Darlie's Mob, mistook Razorjack as more than a One-off... ohhhh I don't know....
If I do that is it okay to include Lilly MacKenzie though and tell me about the Boogie Man stuff in the Prog, was that new material?
Well, you can do it any way you want - it's just a bit of fun.
I still have opinions, though: Lilly MacKenzie should be included because Simon Fraser and it *feels* very 2000 AD and web-comics don't count*. It can't be a reprint if it wasn't ever printed before the Meg got hold of it. Right?
I'm pretty sure Return to Casablanca (The Bogie Man) was first published in the prog (but had been intended for a different publisher). I'd include it.
*Of course they do! Hush now. Don't take everything so seriously.
Casablanca was in the Megazine.
You're entirely correct - my brain was meaning the "progazine". What's the collective term? The House of Tharg?
Colin - PM'd you.
I'm with F. Solo on this - would NOT include stories that ran in other comics first, then later reprinted in the Megazine. On those ground I personally would also rule out really very 2000AD-ish stuff that ran in the Megazine either alongside version from another publisher - which would include Lilly Mackenzie, also things like Ordinary, Numbercruncher, Snapshot (frankly quite a lot of really very good comics). But as the man says, do what you like!
There are still irritating test cases, like the original run of Scarlet Traces, which wasn't, technically, written for the Megazine or commissioned by Tharg - but of course later series of it totally were/are.
Anyway, it'll all come out in the wash, and Nemesis the Warlock is going to win anyway ;)
Quote from: AlexF on 11 October, 2021, 11:38:04 AM
Anyway, it'll all come out in the wash, and Nemesis the Warlock is going to win anyway ;)
I like your moxey... I reckon, depending on the draw - and fate will have a cruel and crucial hand here* - Nemesis is strong contenter for a semi place and very possibly final... I think we can all punt on winner... can't we... it will get interesting
*I'm going full random on this one to get surprises and keep it interesting just like the FA cup.
Let's not Skip to the end of this but a certain Russian will have a swing at it
Right I suspected I'd be swayed here and here we are. I think for the reasons stated I'm going with the following ruling:
Comics strips - creator owned or otherwise - have to have at least some of their run's first PRINT appearance (to the best of my knowledge) in either the Prog or Meg.
Where a story has episodes / chapters / books that started outside the Prog or Meg but then subsequent episode / chapters / books first appear in the comic they will be included BUT I ask folks (if they can be bothered and can remember) to only consider those episodes / chapters / books that first appeared in Tharg's kingdom for the purpose of this tourney... though ya know how the heck will I know if you don't / can't be bothered!
So that allows:
Lilly MacKenzie
Bogie Man
Numbercruncher
Ordinary
Snapshot
Scarlet Traces
It excludes:
Metalzoic (weep!)
Reprint stuff from Annuals and Specials
Hellboy
Preacher
All the Battle stuff
Sin City
Lazarous Churchyard
Any errors in this will be mine and
1) I hope won't be spotted as they'll be too much going on
2) If they are spotted I'll blag and make something up to pretend it was deliberate
3) I might accidently include Metalzoic on the basis - I reckon everyone will want it in, I can make up something about appearing in serialised form first... its my tourney so NAH NAH to anyone else!
Oh one more for now and I promise I'll shut up. I don't think any of Dept of Monsterology appeared first in any comic that is the fruit of Tharg's loins - I'm certainly going with that unless someone correct me as I'm wrong and on that basis it won't appear alas...
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 11 October, 2021, 12:53:50 PM
Oh one more for now and I promise I'll shut up. I don't think any of Dept of Monsterology appeared first in any comic that is the fruit of Tharg's loins - I'm certainly going with that unless someone correct me as I'm wrong and on that basis it won't appear alas...
There was a seven page prologue that ran as a teaser in the Megazine, but none of the two full series did (as far as I know).
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 11 October, 2021, 02:09:49 PM
There was a seven page prologue that ran as a teaser in the Megazine, but none of the two full series did (as far as I know).
I should add: these pages weren't commissioned for/by Rebellion, but I don't
think they saw print anywhere else. PJ and/or Gordon might be able to shed more light.
Thanks Jim.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 11 October, 2021, 02:24:53 PM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 11 October, 2021, 02:09:49 PM
There was a seven page prologue that ran as a teaser in the Megazine, but none of the two full series did (as far as I know).
I should add: these pages weren't commissioned for/by Rebellion, but I don't think they saw print anywhere else. PJ and/or Gordon might be able to shed more light.
The blurb for first trade mentions USA Today and you can read it online here (https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/2013/08/22/dept-of-monsterology-comic-book-series/2683777/).
I'm firmly in team NO REPRINTS EXCEPT METALZOIC, for most of the same reasons as AlexFunt.
Quote from: I, Cosh on 11 October, 2021, 04:37:27 PM
The blurb for first trade mentions USA Today and you can read it online here (https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/2013/08/22/dept-of-monsterology-comic-book-series/2683777/).
I know the pages were used for online promotion, which is why I said it hadn't
seen print anywhere else... so, technically at least, it's not a reprint.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 11 October, 2021, 04:58:30 PM
Quote from: I, Cosh on 11 October, 2021, 04:37:27 PM
The blurb for first trade mentions USA Today and you can read it online here (https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/2013/08/22/dept-of-monsterology-comic-book-series/2683777/).
I know the pages were used for online promotion, which is why I said it hadn't seen print anywhere else... so, technically at least, it's not a reprint.
Fair enough. I assumed it was printed in the newspaper as well as the website. I guess I was wrong.
Quote from: I, Cosh on 11 October, 2021, 05:00:47 PM
Fair enough. I assumed it was printed in the newspaper as well as the website. I guess I was wrong.
Sorry — I actually forgot that USA Today
was a newspaper! I only ever produced one set of print-ready files from those pages, though (for the Meg), so I'm pretty sure that's the only time they've been printed.
BUT that story is a one-off so alas it ain't going in here. Which is a shame as I liked this series.
I'm with Cosh Block - Metalzoic should be the exception that proves the rule, and be included. Two reasons:
1. It's Metalzoic.
2. It had never been printed the way it was printed in the prog, before.*
*This is the kind of argument that makes me think I'd have made quite a good politician.
I agree with Metalzoic, keep the metal, keep the metal !!!!
Black and white, episodic Metalzoic is an ENTIRELY different beast, it defeinitely counts! And the covers were newly commissioned for the Prog, right? So even on a technicality it's legit...*
Funt, I see your Politician and raise you a Civil Servant.
*but it's not better than Nemesis
Was Metalzoic a reprint? I thought it was published at the same time as the US version, or did I imagine that?
Cos I'm lazy I've used Wikipedia as my source, but to be fair this is also my understanding of things
QuoteMetalzoic is a graphic novel (ISBN 0-930289-10-2) written by Pat Mills and drawn by Kevin O'Neill which was first published by DC Comics in 1986 as the sixth of the DC Graphic Novel line. Later in the same year it was reprinted in serial form in 2000 AD, issues 483-492.
Quote from: Richard on 12 October, 2021, 01:40:24 PM
Was Metalzoic a reprint? I thought it was published at the same time as the US version, or did I imagine that?
DC still own it, and apparently have no interest in re-releasing it or selling the rights on.
Which is a pity, since it's a great piece of work.
Quote from: GordonR on 12 October, 2021, 02:17:00 PM
Quote from: Richard on 12 October, 2021, 01:40:24 PM
Was Metalzoic a reprint? I thought it was published at the same time as the US version, or did I imagine that?
DC still own it, and apparently have no interest in re-releasing it or selling the rights on.
Which is a pity, since it's a great piece of work.
And both Pat Mills and Kevin O'Neill would like to see it reprinted. Personally if I was in charge of DC, the deluxe reprint would contain both the colour and black and white versions. Doesn't seem that difficult to get the original printings at the moment (if ebay search is to be believed). Though all the copies seem to be in the USA at the moment, so even if they're offering free postage, HMRC may have different ideas. Still, the corresponding progs are around the £1 mark each.
On a side note I missed Tank Girl off my list of included thrills.
Okay so next question before we get into the fiddly details of does this series count as that series really or stand on its own.
Subsidiary* Dredd. So there are a number of 'other' Dredd strips that reside outside the main series Judge Dredd and these I reflect on as follows - as a starting point. As ever I'm weak and will be easily swayed... Just to note 'Judge Dredd' the series will NOT appear in the tourney on the same basis that he's been excluded from others as it removes any questions of who will win!
Cadet Dredd - clearly a different series and will be included in the same way Cadet Anderson, Young Middenface, Young Death, will all stand on their own.
Dredd (Movie) - as opposed to Judge Dredd, strips based on the 2012 movie I think are significently different to be included on their own and won't dominate the way Judge Dredd might.
The Dead Man - This is were this will get really controversial I think. I'm going with not including on the basis that its narrative is basically a continuation of the main strips story and the name change was included to sustain a surprise / twist. This will give you a clear indication of how I'm leaning with other such stories...
America - EVEN MORE CONTROVERSIAL. I'm going NO. I accept its not officially a Judge Dredd story. I acknowledge its not built into the narrative of the ongoing series. HOWEVER its is generally considered the greatest Dredd strip by many. Was included in the Tourney about Judge Dredd epics and in fact did very well. I guess the big question here is whether its fair to lump this in with Judge Dredd (series) based on my own perspections which frankly do go against reality!
*I use subsidiary advisedly as it has no sense of quality, rather importance and as such all strips are subsidiary to Judge Dredd surely...
Thumbs up on all counts, from me! America and The Dead Man are the two best Dredd stories,
(https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/2020/12/epics-3-1-bitter-end.html (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/2020/12/epics-3-1-bitter-end.html))
although not, perhaps, the two best stories ever to appear in the 2000AD-azine. Perhaps.
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 13 October, 2021, 09:48:54 AM
America - I accept its not officially a Judge Dredd story.
I saw someone else say that recently as well. I don't get it - right there on the first page of the strip it's got the "Judge Dredd' banner, with him standing on the US flag and the narrative box says "Where do I stand? I'll tell you where I stand." Then, on the next page, it has the America subtitle.
---
But
Dead Eyes should count as standalone, right?
Quote from: Funt Solo on 13 October, 2021, 03:07:55 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 13 October, 2021, 09:48:54 AM
America - I accept its not officially a Judge Dredd story.
I saw someone else say that recently as well. I don't get it - right there on the first page of the strip it's got the "Judge Dredd' banner, with him standing on the US flag and the narrative box says "Where do I stand? I'll tell you where I stand." Then, on the next page, it has the America subtitle.
Hey its not me ya have to ask - who am I to doubt the might of the wonderful Barney
http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=thrill&page=profiles&choice=AMERICA (http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=thrill&page=profiles&choice=AMERICA)
Quote from: Funt Solo on 13 October, 2021, 03:07:55 PM
But Dead Eyes should count as standalone, right?
errrr.... wellllll.... errrr .... maybe you don't ....ermmmm... want to ... ya know... look at this thread for a couple of days... I mean nothing is likely to happen... or like... anything... ya know...
(https://i.imgur.com/2EdHDBO.png)
Okay last few questions - then I'll have a list and I can start prep in earnst. So I fear the next calls I make will not be popular but here we go. I'm looking at series that kinda cross over into other series, or more to the point carry on the narrative of other series under a different title. So here are my calls there:
Malone + Downlode Tales: Won't run on their own and should be considered as part of Sinister Dexter. I do this they carry on the central narrative of the main series Sinister Dexter. In the case of Malone (which I love) this is done primarily to empower a fantastic twist.
The Vort: Same as above - and specifically Malone, but for Lobster Random and so on that basis will be counted in Lobster Random.
Dead Eyes - Now this one is trickier but I'm not counting. Again it disguises itself at least in part to hide its connection and allow for a twist. It really starts the new Indigo Prime and I think if I include this as seperate I should go Indigo Prime - Classic; Dead Eyes; Indigo Prime - Modern and that's creating articifial divides that I'm not happy with doing - I'm not with Strontium Dog for example as there is a narrative thread through it all.
The Scarlet Apocrypha - Now I would have lumped this in with Durham Red BUT there seems to be almost universal acceptance that this is seperate and well I've not read the stories in the Meg so I'm going with this being seperate unless I hear otherwise.
Megatropolis - On the official site this gets lumped in with a series I've not read in the Megs called Mega City Noir BUT that seems to be the Simping Detective stuff. On that basis I don't see a real connection and Megatropolis carries on it own easy. I suppose my question should be does Mega-City Noir get wrapped into Simping Detective?
Torquemada the God - Now I've always considered this a spin of mini-series rather than part of Nemesis, in the same way Deadlock is. Same, world, closely related but seperate. So I was going to run it seperate BUT I'm not convinced anyone thinks that other than me! So I'll wrap it into Nemesis unless folks stand up for it to be seperated.
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 16 October, 2021, 08:14:33 AM
Torquemada the God - Now I've always considered this a spin of mini-series rather than part of Nemesis, in the same way Deadlock is. Same, world, closely related but seperate. So I was going to run it seperate BUT I'm not convinced anyone thinks that other than me! So I'll wrap it into Nemesis unless folks stand up for it to be seperated.
Torque the God is definitely a defacto book of Nemesis - continuity-wise there's no other join between Torquemurder to The Two Torques. I always consider that Deadlock story to be Nem book XI as well, showing what happened in Termight after Nem and Torque left. Though I suppose that Wizards and Warlocks story would also have to be included by the same token, but that's alright as it's not like anybody's going to vote
that as their fave book of Nem!*
* I remember being hugely disappointed by it at the time - not only because it was a significant drop in quality for my favourite 2000AD series, but also because I'd liked Crithlow's artwork since Thrud in White Dwarf. I don't think I've seen any painted artwork from Carl I especially like, but I like the 21st century linework, as seen in the Thrud mini-series and that IDW 2000AD series.
Mega-City Noir was an abortive anthology series set in Mega-City One, proposed by Si Spurrier. The first episode was Jack Point's first adventure; he immediately became more interesting to Spurrier, and continued on into his own series (The Simping Detective) . Mega-City Noir eventually managed a single further (forgettable) outing, then was quietly axed. Megatropolis has nothing to do with it at all, especially being an 'Elseworlds' series.
So you've got three distinct, separate series there - whether you should even bother with Mega-City Noir is up to you!
Thanks Dark Jimbo, by my estimation then Mega City Noir is a one off aside from The Simping Detective story, which is wrapped into Simping D and so its out
AND
Therefore based on the decisions folks have helped me with here that 341 series from Prog and Meg. SO format will be
Round 1 will have 85 randomly selected ties (I've actually quickly whipped through the list and give 89 thrills a by in the Round 1 draw based in them being 'Premiere League / Championship' Thrills - I'll not bother to debate this as we'd never get to a concenus - just like in the FA cup they will join in Round 2.
So 85 ties = 170 thrills and 83 getting a bye. That will leave Round 2 with 256 thrills and its straight draw, straight knock out from there... phew... know to the easy part and doing the draw and starting to prep the threads opening posts...
Christ that was exhausting* I've done the draw for Round 1 (no spoilers) and found 3 or 4 mistakes while sorting things and doing the draw SO in the end.
Round 1 is 85 ties
Straight into the 2nd Round = 90 thrills
Byes due to the draw = 81
Which will put 256 thrills into 2nd Round...
*Well yes that is meladrama!
OH BLOODY HELL!!!!
Okay so when doing a final check I remember two stories that weren't present - off the top of my head which is a worry! Anyway added them and that changes the figures as follows:
Round 1 is 87 ties
Straight into the 2nd Round = 90 thrills
Byes due to the draw = 79
Which will put 256 thrills into 2nd Round...
Anymore and I'm just going to say they got arrested at the airport and aren't allowed to compete!
Were they Trash and Strontium Dog?