The Political Thread

[Professor Bear]

Similar goings-on in the UK: http://www.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/Suspected-benefit-cheats-arrested-early-morning/story-26002712-detail/story.html

[JayzusB.Christ]

Joking aside, if that happened up here in the North* there'd be riots and blood in the street**, and I'm amazed that people are taking it laying down and haven't strung Kenny up by his balls already.

To be fair, I was kind of pleased to see Irish people finally coming out and protesting in their thousands with the cack-handed handling of the water charges introduction.  We seem to tolerate being shat on quite a bit, but this seemed to be the straw that broke the camel's back - and at least we can vote Fine Gael out (not that it'll make much of a difference).

[TordelBack]

Surprised that no-one from Ireland has waded into the multiple early-morning arrests of water protesters in their own homes by what the Guards and politicians are saying is a completely above board round of perfectly legal and reasonable arrests of - among others - 16 year-old children, and in no way an attempt to make non-payers afraid to be in their own homes if they don't toe the line.  On top of the government refusing to prosecute Irish tax evaders named in the HSBC leak, it's good to see the whole revolution thing to chuck that oppressive government out of the country worked out in the long run.  99 years and things come full circle.  Ah well.

Joking aside, if that happened up here in the North* there'd be riots and blood in the street**, and I'm amazed that people are taking it laying down and haven't strung Kenny up by his balls already.



* Which of course it did - many times.
** And there was.

TBH seeing bandwagoneer extraordinaire and all round colossal knob Paul Murphy - my very own public representative - arrested almost made it all worth while, but alas not even a single length of rubber hose was employed against his Student Union Sabatical Officer arse during his unenhanced questioning, and he emerged smirking into the media frenzy and generally looking like a man who had slipped the Guards 50 quid to ensure his political career forever. Middle class tourists in Jobstown usually pay a lot more for that kind of street cred.

That'll teach Kenny to play ball with the GRA in future.

False flag! False flag!

[The Legendary Shark]

I've already had violent police at my door through lack of money and can only say that people would rather stand and watch than help.
.

[The Legendary Shark]

"Lord Fink."
.
Somebody's having a laugh, surely? Wasn't he one of the baddies in Dangermouse?

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

I womder if he has a brother who's a Professor

[The Legendary Shark]

Or one with a mechanical arm and a dial on his head?

[Prodigal2]

"Lord Fink."
.
Somebody's having a laugh, surely? Wasn't he one of the baddies in Dangermouse?

[Professor Bear]

I don't know what Benefits Britain is, but it's really brought out the Daily Mail readers on Twitter.

[AlexF]

I was in Orbital comics near Leicester Square last night and I picked up a new anthology called 'Cross', from Disconnected Press, which turns out to be a call to arms encouraging people to take the upcoming election seriously, and to vote, goddammit, vote! Many of the stories are written and drawn by 2000 AD stalwarts, and I recognized a few names from the forums, too...

First off, I recommend the book – lots of great cartooning in there. But I have to say, it also made me cross, and not really in the way it intended.

So, a confession/admission. I care about politics. I am interested. I vote. (Which therefore means I'm not the ideal audience for the book; preaching to the choir and all that.) But I don't buy into the rhetoric that ALL politicians are power-hungry bastards, that ALL politicians are only interested in lining their pockets and keeping things great for the wealthy at the expense of everybody else. (Of the comics pushing this angle, I did rather like Williams and Holden's Money-Bucket Head - clever, funny and so darkly cynical I almost cried.)

I know the book is satire, that people are exaggerating for effect, but I worry that people think not voting is a valid idea because there's not a single politician worth voting for. I respect the comic for not coming out in support of any one party, and for promoting the idea that it's worthwhile voting for any of the 'smaller' parties. And certainly I'll champion anything that encourages people to vote! (And, yes, I applaud the Farage-bashing, too (Best in show for that were Clements and Dyer). Sure, UKIP and Farage are easy targets, but goodness me they're targets that deserve being hit*)

So here's the thing, the admission – I'm a card-carrying Lib Dem. I'm even married to someone who works for the Lib Dems. (My wife is one of several Special Advisors to the Deputy Prime Minister – or Clegghounds, as I like to call them). So I have something of an inside track into what's been going on for the last few years of the Coalition government. Here's one of the more salient facts – it's an incredibly difficult job to do, and between the ministers, their advisors and the Civil Servants who do the actual work, many of them struggle just to keep on top of the day's demands, with very little time to do any sort of conspiracy / pocket-lining activities. And yes, it IS rather a lot like 'the Thick of It', only with less creative swearing.

A lot of statements get issued, even bills tabled before the House, because people mess up. Politicians all seem to have their own pet projects they like to push, some noble, some less so, but the system is in place to make it really hard for them, even the Prime Minister. But yes, some individual politicians really are twats who have no idea how most people actually live, and they shouldn't be allowed to make decisions on our behalf!**

I've not met Nick Clegg (or any Tory ministers). I do believe that the current crop of leaders are all career politicians who, in part, got their jobs because of a privileged Public School / Oxbridge education and connections. This is annoying, no doubt – so by all means vote for someone else if you think they'd be a better fit for the job, but of course it doesn't work like that, does it? (And although I agree there is something wrong about leaders not themselves being a fair representation of society, I don't agree that being a career politician is a bad thing. One doesn't complain about career doctors, lawyers or even comics creators.) We all can only vote for someone who happens to be standing for election where we happen to live. To some extent, the only real choices are:

• Pick a party, any party, and if you hate what they stand for join them and persuade them to change those policies you disagree with. I don't think any party member of any party fully supports every single manifesto issue of the party  - you know, just like no one loves every story in each weekly Prog.
  Stand for election yourself. (And then see if you still think ALL politicians are twats after going through the process just of being selected to be a candidate.)

I can't resist a little political push, but I do apologise if it's inappropriate. You think the Tories are only interested in helping the rich and hurting the poor? It's not quite that simple, but it's definitely fair to say that the Lib Dems have held them back from doing far worse, and they wouldn't have been able to do it if they'd stayed in opposition. Be grateful. And if there's one thing I do think has tarred both parties unfairly, it's the 'privatization of the NHS' nonsense. No politician even wants that, and they certainly wouldn't dare to do it because itd' be one o fthe biggest vote-losers going as a policy. The reason why the NHS isn't as good as people seem to think it was back in the olden days is simple. There are lots more people per dcotor/nurse/hospital than before, and they are more ill than they used to be - because the NHS is working well enough to keep them alive!

Anyway, back to Cross, the comic! I was all fired up and annoyed about my perception of its overall message, but then came Cy Dethan and Matt Timson's Pulling the Plug. Far and away the best story, a fascinating re-evaluation of what satire is, and a real corker of a call to arms to get political.

*If you're really so desperate for the UK (even England) to be independent of Europe, think about the fact that this would make it harder for the likes of Carlos Ezquerra to get work from a British publication. Or Michael Carroll, for that matter. Not to mention squashing most of the Premiere League, if there are any sports fans buried deep in the 2000AD online forum.

**Yes, I'm talking about unnamed members of the Conservative Party.

[Richmond Clements]

First off, glad you liked our story!

I'll repond to this:

You think the Tories are only interested in helping the rich and hurting the poor? It's not quite that simple, but it's definitely fair to say that the Lib Dems have held them back from doing far worse, and they wouldn't have been able to do it if they'd stayed in opposition.

by pointing out that the ONLY REASON the Tories where in power and able to damage the NHS so much is because Clegg chose them over Labour.

[Colin YNWA]

I'm not sure this shouldn't be in to politics thread cos it might well stir up a hornets nest in these parts BUT the fact that you wrap it all very nicely in comic talk means it certainly gets a pass from me. I'm intrigued by the sound of 'Cross' so thanks for the heads, as I'd not heard of it before.

On other matters I'm actually in Nick Clegg's constituency, in fact the first X-Mas card we got this year was from Cleggy, who all of a sudden has become incredibly visible in our parts in a way he wasn't for the last 4 years in any way shape or form. He seems to spend an incredible amount of time hanging around campanions for my daughters school or its partner Junior school. He also leaves me with a voting dilemma. I can't see him getting in and certainly have no intention of voting for him, I'm a life long Labour voter (just living in middle class Yorkshire these days, chunks of Sheffield defy the sterotype!), but one who no longer believe if he's being honest can vote for them again in good faith. Its going to be a right old ding-dong our way come the election so tactically I should vote labour but suspect I'll go Green (though I need to do some more reading first) by doing so will I be helping someone else sneaking in? So do you vote with your head or your heart?

To bring it back on topic, maybe I should read Cross to help me get my thinking straight!

[Molch-R]

Yes, please move this over to the politics thread. Thanks.

[Jim_Campbell]

by pointing out that the ONLY REASON the Tories where in power and able to damage the NHS so much is because Clegg chose them over Labour.

I'm not about to defend the LibDems but Paddy Ashdown gave a pretty candid interview on R4 last year in which he was very clear: their default instinct was coalition with Labour, and all the initial talks were with Labour, but the electoral maths was such that the resulting coalition couldn't command a majority.

TBH, I'd have said "To hell with it", let Cameron form a minority government and then tried to bring them down on a vote of confidence at the first opportunity, but if I cared that much then I'd be in politics.

Cheers

Jim

[I, Cosh]

Interesting stuff Alex. Hadn't heard of the comic. Might give it a look.

I certainly agree that the Millsian view that every politician is an Oxbridge paedo on the make gets pretty tiresome. On some of your other points I'm less convinced.

- For me, a conscious decision not to vote (as opposed to simple apathy) is just as valid and, in fact, far more representative of critical political thought than pitching up to vote for the same party as last time without thinking about it.

- One doesn't complain about career doctors, lawyers or accountants because their background and beliefs are divorced from the function they perform. While I would agree that complaining about the makeup of parliament vs society is partly down to a deliberate conflation of the different meanings of the "representative" in representative democracy, I do think that drawing all politicians from a relatively narrow social strata has a negative impact on the possibility for debate and engagement.
It's not a problem I have an answer to either as it's clear that it's something that requires sufficient engagement at a lower level to drive. The old path of the union rep or whatever is dead because of the change in patterns of employment and organisation and the idea that you're not a prole because you work in an office rather than a factory.