The Political Thread

[ZenArcade]

I wouldn't worry too much about the Guardian comments site, it is in the main populated by f**kits of the highest order. Although it does provide good light entertainment. Z

[Hawkmumbler]

I'm still somewhat conffused as to what they will be using as currency IF they get independence. They won't get to use either the Euro or the Pound so, what?

[Ghost MacRoth]

For now, it will be the pound.  There is nothing that prohibits any country who wishes to use it from using it, they simply have no control over it.

[Dog Deever]

I knew I wouldn't be able to resist it. 

Which, for me, is when things start to float more towards Libertarianism or Minarchism;

I'd consider Anarchy to fundamentally concern abolition of statehood -before all else- and in the current context, the Yes & No vote represent the total opposite of, but that's a digression.

yeah, as I say- anarchism comes in shades and hues like every other 'ideology'. When the idea is to take responsibility for your political life, it hardly serves to follow 'one way' resolutely.

I see using the best of what is on offer at any given time- particularly with regards to decentralisation of power as the way forward whilst trying to build from the ground up by whatever the best options available are. You cannot simply 'remove the state'- how can that be a reasonable option?
Removal of the NEED for a state is the only way and that has to be built from the ground up through community groups, the division of religion and state, the division of corporate interests and the state and some mechanism to reign in rogue governments. We have to stand with the Social Democrats if they are prepared to offer concessions by way of standing against global Corporate Fascism, because they are terrified of it too.

Leninist communism smashed the left all over Europe and in the Communist Block a new elite formed- nothing changed and millions died.
Armed revolution is NOT the way- guns, bombs and force are never progressive because the poorest always pay most, and it always ends in failure of some catastrophic variety. The history whole libertarian movement from the Paris Commune up to now has shown that. In the time that the left has been crying in its beer and talking of 'things must get worse before the conditions are right', global corporate fascism has been on the rise in the most insidious ways.
We have to fight it now, and if that means standing with the SNP, or SSP or Solidarity or even a proper Labour Party- I'll do it when it has to be done, because ultimately I don't care much about my votes in general elections. I vote for what I believe is best for the poorest at any given time and have allegiance to no-one, I belong to no 'groups' nor do I subscribe to anyone's particular ideology- I've also spoiled plenty ballot papers when there is no particular 'best option' to support. I feel the desperate state of things calls for unity with everyone on the left of centre, or we are all fucked.

I don't like having to stand beside Marxists, the Nationalist Scots (not the SNP nats- the anti-English brigade) or greedy Social Democrats looking to gain a slice of the pie- but I will because I am tired of the way things are and the entire political landscape needs a total shake up. We are not strong enough to do that globally, only locally- but it is a start. Of course it is a gamble- so is the No vote, but it just has to be taken, IMO.

I fully understand 8-balls fears, they are mine too- for myself, for my kids and for my grandchildren etc- but things like the section you emboldened are the politics of fear and we really need to be fearless and push on rather than hiding away in isolation taking no significant part in the political debate. Everyone anywhere on the left spectrum- we have ALL marginalised ourselves with our own failures. It hasn't worked and we have to change before we all crash headlong into another global war for corporate interests.

[TordelBack]

I'm still somewhat conffused as to what they will be using as currency IF they get independence. They won't get to use either the Euro or the Pound so, what?

If I can draw a cheery parallel, the Irish Free State continued to use stirling from its inception until 1927, after which it created its own pound which was pegged at 1:1 with stirling right up until the late 70's, when we joined the European Exchange Rate Mechanism and had to leave parity behind.   

[Banners]

We are not strong enough to do that globally, only locally- but it is a start.

I'm enjoying reading your thoughts, DD, and I'm grateful for the effort you've gone to in expressing them. I'm not clever enough to reference so many political ideologies (despite my bulging collection of Ken Loach DVDs and books...!) and I'm reluctant to pick out such a small part of your thoughts to reference. But it seems to me that the best way of combating evil – whether that be from politics, social injustice or terrorism – is for like-minded people to come together. A "Yes" vote would divide a valuable (if imperfect) group of people who share a broadly similar culture.

Surely the ultimate aim of humanity is to have no countries. New Scientist recently ran an article asking if we're near the end of nations. I thought the article itself was more historical than forward-looking, and somewhat inconclusive, but I like a hypothesis thay says in order to achieve equality and fairness with our brothers and sisters around the world, we need fewer countries, not more.

That's an admittedly utopian vision – but irrespective of practical, cultural and emotional arguments, it seems to me that disenfranchised Scots, and those justifying their "Yes" vote for the supposed global good, would be better to vote "No" and fight the political system from within, rather than try to set up a smaller enclave.

--

On another point, given how close the polls show the vote is likely to be, shouldn't we call off the referendum and take some time to come up with something more sophisticated and mutually-beneficial than a simple binary Yes/No choice?

[Old Tankie]

There was going to be more choice on the ballot paper, Banners, but Davey Boy rejected it!

Polls still too close to call.  In one poll the Yes vote is going up.

I've been thinking about turnout.  Surely, a high turnout favours Yes.  At the last Westminster election, I think I'm right in saying that only about 50% of people in Scotland voted.  If the turnout in this referendum is 80%+, as is being predicted, surely the majority of the extra voters are going to vote Yes, as why would you come out to vote to maintain links with Westminster when you don't vote in Westminster elections?  Just a thought.

[Richmond Clements]

There was going to be more choice on the ballot paper, Banners, but Davey Boy rejected it!

Polls still too close to call.  In one poll the Yes vote is going up.

I've been thinking about turnout.  Surely, a high turnout favours Yes.  At the last Westminster election, I think I'm right in saying that only about 50% of people in Scotland voted.  If the turnout in this referendum is 80%+, as is being predicted, surely the majority of the extra voters are going to vote Yes, as why would you come out to vote to maintain links with Westminster when you don't vote in Westminster elections?  Just a thought.

I'm on the count on Thursday night. There's been a 97% sign-up for voting... it's going to be a busy night!

[Banners]

I'm on the cunt on Thursday night. ...it's going to be a busy night!

Lol!

[Jim_Campbell]

I'm on the cunt on Thursday night.

Something you're not telling us, Richmond?

Cheers

Jim

[Old Tankie]

You're on the What on Thursday night?!! 

[Richmond Clements]

Ha! Superb!
I have fixed my post, but left the replies for the comedy value! ;-)

[Jim_Campbell]

Ha! Superb!
I have fixed my post, but left the replies for the comedy value! ;-)

Typo of the week!

Cheers

Jim

[Proudhuff]

I'm on the cunt on Thursday night. ...it's going to be a busy night!

Lol!

We know a song about that

[Tiplodocus]

Is that a Scottish word for "park bench?"

I think there is a genuine opportunity for the parties in Scotland to become better socialist parties as a result of a Yes vote. And hopefully, that will spread outside of any borders.