The Political Thread

[COMMANDO FORCES]

Anyway, enough of all the fun.

Does anyone think that the list of all those companies who have been spying on the general public will be published this week. Obviously certain people don't want it to come out and they'll do everything in their power to stop it!

I find this should be grabbing larger headlines than the Murdoch/Newspapers spying stories due to the fact that it seems to be out of control. We always knew that the papers did this sort of stuff to chase their stories but it seems that they will be dwarfed by this lot, especially as it's us lot and not mainly the famous people that have been spied on!

I'm looking forward to see what happens this week.

[Steve Green]

I don't see why not - even taking into account the 4 under investigation it still leaves a bunch who could be revealed under parliamentary privilege by the looks of it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/bluechip-hacking-battle-to-hide-the-truth-revealed-as-police-remove-key-names-from-soca-list-of-firms-that-used-rogue-private-investigators-8802737.html

[COMMANDO FORCES]

It's gonna be an interesting time seeing who is revealed.

[Old Tankie]

I'm surprised that anybody would be surprised that we're being spied upon, you've only got to walk into the street to see the cameras! 

[NapalmKev]

I'm surprised that anybody would be surprised that we're being spied upon, you've only got to walk into the street to see the cameras!

It could be argued that cameras are there to prevent crime (maybe); whereas having your private communications monitored by a 'foreign power' is more akin to outright Fascism!

Cheers

[Old Tankie]

So......... as long as it's our own government, or councils, or private companies, or private individuals, spying on us, it's okay?  It's only when it's that nasty "Johnny Foreigner" doing it that we get the hump!

[Richmond Clements]

So......... as long as it's our own government, or councils, or private companies, or private individuals, spying on us, it's okay?  It's only when it's that nasty "Johnny Foreigner" doing it that we get the hump!

Pretty sure he didn't say that...

[NapalmKev]

So......... as long as it's our own government, or councils, or private companies, or private individuals, spying on us, it's okay?  It's only when it's that nasty "Johnny Foreigner" doing it that we get the hump!

I never said it was ok for our own government to 'spy' on us.

You should try reading my post again; but this time use your eyes, not your attitude!

Cheers

[M.I.K.]

I'm surprised that anybody would be surprised that we're being spied upon, you've only got to walk into the street to see the cameras!

The cameras are in a public place and blatantly there. It's not being done covertly and they're not obtaining 'private' information, so they aren't really spying.

My brother was properly spied on once when someone wrongly accused him of benefit fraud. He was followed around for quite a while, which wasn't too obvious when he was in town but became so when they repeatedly followed him to the middle of nowhere and sat in a parked car, not doing anything. Job centre later confirmed that someone had been watching him and why.

[Recrewt]

There is no doubt that there are a lot of cameras about nowadays - when you do go into your town centre then they can trace you as you go about and if they wish, make note of all the places you have been.  The other issue is how long they plan to store these recordings.  Fair enough, you could say that they are there for your safety (a policeman standing there can do similar though can't it?) but if nothing happens that day do they then delete the recordings or keep them?  If they are kept - for how long?

I was not aware of this current news story and had a look at the link.  As far as I could tell though it is about companies using private investigators.  These investigators then hack into people's emails, etc...  I feel the same about this as the newspaper stuff - they should not do it but I am not surprised at all that they do. 

[Old Tankie]

Several points really - maybe he didn't say that, Richmond, but if that's the way I read it, then that's the way I read it.  I wasn't rude, just a difference of opinion.

NapalmKev - if I want to read your post with "attitude", surely that's allowed, you've certainly given me "attitude" back, and that's fine.

Carrying on the points raised by M.I.K. and Recrewt - it's the very fact that I'm law abiding that I'm against the surveillance society.  We don't know who's watching us, for how long, and for what reason.  Do we really trust the people with their hands on the camera controls?

[Frank]

CCTV cameras are one of the best illustrations of the tension between individual liberty and the pursuit of justice. I'm instinctively against them, but you don't have to think very hard to come up with a list of quite rare but high profile cases of murder or sexual assault where the proliferation of CCTV (not just one camera) was important in securing a conviction. Unhelpfully, that argument works just as well when inverted.

Why should every single person in the country be made the subject of surveillance - and prosecution for some minor infractions which would otherwise have gone unnoticed - just because it might prove helpful in a small number of extraordinary cases - cases which might have been solved and successfully prosecuted by other means. There's no easy balance to be found.

Practical outcomes and evidence might be the the best way of examining the problem. Having our every move monitored hasn't made the UK any safer or our serious crime rate lower than other developed nations; none of whom make as widespread use of CCTV as our government does. The use of private detectives by corporate actors is much easier - pretty much everything they were up to is already illegal, and there's no defence of public interest, as there was in the case of newspapers.

[Old Tankie]

Yes, Sauchie, well said, very good points there.  You're able to put into words what I think.  Wish I was that clever!

[COMMANDO FORCES]

The sooner we all have our DNA taken at birth and a mirco chip inserted into us the better

[TordelBack]

The sooner we all have our DNA taken at birth...

Clearly angling for a Rico II of his very own...