This is the News!

[Jim_Campbell]

So, whenever a government passes legislation to commit murder on a certain group of people for any reason, that's fine, is it? It's lawful to kill some people just because some other people wrote it down?

Again, you're confusing morality with law. Law is law because people with the power to pass legislation say it's the law. That's how laws work. Something being law doesn't make it right — literally everything the Nazis did was legal, it just wasn't moral.

Inventing a different category of 'law' doesn't miraculously make it so, I'm afraid. You mean morality. Calling it something else also doesn't make it so.

Seriously, Shark — there are eight-year-olds that understand this distinction. Your obtuseness on this point does you no favours.

[The Legendary Shark]

You are correct. Natural human law, based on our fundamental instincts and nature, is very much morality. Legislation does not alter morality, therefore legislation does not alter basic law. Passing legislation that allows hanging, for example, does not alter the immorality, or unlawfulness, of murder.

You say "Law is law because people with the power to pass legislation say it's the law. That's how laws work." I would rephrase that as "Legislation is law because people with the power to pass legislation say it's the law. That's how legislation works." Basically, might makes right. I cannot go along with that, personally.

Something being legislation doesn't make it right (or moral/lawful). As I said, legislation can be fine as a guide but should never be imposed on anyone because for one human being to enforce their will on another is unlawful.

There is a distinction between legislation and law - and you're absolutely correct that morality plays a big part in that distinction - law (at least in theory if not always in practice) protects everyone, legislation protects the legislators. You are also correct that "Calling it something else also doesn't make it so." This is why adding the word "law" to "legislative" doesn't make it so. "Legislative law" makes as much sense as "immoral morality." This is why we've somehow gone from police upholding the law to police enforcing the law. The law to be upheld is common or natural human law, whereas it's legislative law that gets enforced - all based on wordplay.

[Jim_Campbell]

There is a distinction between legislation and law - and you're absolutely correct that morality plays a big part in that distinction - law (at least in theory if not always in practice) protects everyone

No, there isn't. That's the exact opposite of what I'm saying. Once again, we reach a point where it's impossible to discuss anything with you because you insist on redefining perfectly well-established terms to meet your rhetorical/philosophical stance, rendering them meaningless in the framework of the discussion.

Carry on being you. I'm done with this.

[The Legendary Shark]

I'm genuinely sorry you feel that way, Jim, because I'm interested to know how you arrive at the conclusion that legislative and common law are the same when they are known to be different things.

[Funt Solo]

See, Pops. It's not just me that takes the bait. We're just not allowed to have these current affairs threads be anything but the Shark Show. LGBTQ+ rights gets immediately converted into In Magic Land That Wouldn't Happen, Let Me Tell You About My Magic Words From Magic Land.

Anyone can play the game. Just try posting.

 

(I know, I know, I should organize a room.)

[The Legendary Shark]

Well, what do you want me to say? If you want me to say that legislating against the LGBTQIA+ community is wrong, then I'll gladly say it. In fact, I'd say it was downright evil and condemn all such legislation in the same terms, no matter which group is targeted, why they are targeted or where they are. 

My "mistake," it seems, stems from me trying to explain one of the major reasons why, in my view, the Ghana legislation is wrong by placing it in the wider context of not all laws being equal, which I view as a global systemic problem and not just a local problem specific to this case.

You yourself called the Ghana legislation "Another slip towards hell," which I agree with - but given the way you toss in concepts like "Magic Land" to deflect from discussion, I'm not entirely sure what you actually mean or even why you mean it. Care to expand your point?

[Funt Solo]

Different topic, different thread, I think.

(Apologies to Pops for responding. Am definitely considering the obtainment of "a room".)

[JayzusB.Christ]

You yourself called the Ghana legislation "Another slip towards hell," which I agree with - but given the way you toss in concepts like "Magic Land" to deflect from discussion, I'm not entirely sure what you actually mean or even why you mean it. Care to expand your point?

I'm guessing Funt meant that you are talking about the stateless, government-free world that you envisage.  I truly think it would be a better world without states too but personally I feel frustrated when so many mentions of current affairs on this thread end up circling back to the same debate.

[The Legendary Shark]

Well, not exactly. Sure, I do want a better world for everyone, with no exceptions and no compromises, but I don't know what that world will actually look like. I can suggest elements that might contribute to such a world but that is all. It's not for me to tell anyone how to build their own futures.

All I can do is give you my perspective, what you do with that is not up to me. What is up to me are the words I write, and they give my opinion that many (but by no means all) current affairs nightmares stem from the same underlying problems. In the case of the nightmarish Ghana legislation, the underlying problem - again, from my perspective - is the conflation of different types of law leading to the general false perception that law flows down from the ruling classes and cannot be questioned or disobeyed. It is this general mindset that leads to egregious examples of inhumanity such as the Ghana legislation, the ongoing annihilation of Gaza, and the all too numerous pogroms and wars throughout history. For me, treating the Ghana legislation as separate from the Gaza emergency or the Communist disaster is like treating one boil on a plague victim, trying to cure the body boil by boil.

That is my assessment of a big problem highlighted, again in my view, by the Ghana legislation. You may agree with my assessment, or bits of it, or disagree with all of it.

I admit that my solutions are currently nothing more than suggestions geared towards paving the way for that better world we all want, but I'm happy to explore other ideas and perspectives. That, however, puts the cart before the horse (a common practice in Magic Land); we must first agree that this problem with the perception of legislation as ultimate law is a problem in itself. Maybe you don't think it's a problem, or maybe just a minor glitch in the system; I don't discount those possibilities but so far I've heard nothing to disabuse me of my opinion on this. Which is not to say that I'm right and everyone else is wrong, maybe it is the other way around, I can't be certain. Who can?

Anyway, I'm sorry for the frustrating nature of my posts but they are genuinely meant and as honest as I can make them.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

President Michael D Higgins taken to hospital after feeling unwell at Áras an Uachtaráin

This is terrible news.

[JayzusB.Christ]

President Michael D Higgins taken to hospital after feeling unwell at Áras an Uachtaráin

This is terrible news.

Oh feck. I really hope he's OK.  It's not often I like and respect state leaders but MDH is one of the good guys.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Looks like the prognosis is OK so far - hope he's back on his feet soon. For those who don't know (and why should you if you're not from here?), our president is mostly a symbolic position.  Like the King, except we voted for him.

This particular guy is an educated, dignified and knowledgeable type.  He's a poet and a gentleman, and a nice counterbalance to the self-serving moneygrabbers who hold actual power here in Ireland. He's managed to fend off the right wing populist gobshites in a couple of elections (but not by as wide a margin as I'm comfortable with, sadly).

[Hawkmumbler]

Palestine: A Video Essay by Shaun

Probably one of the best at-arms-length reflections on the ongoing massacre and Israels damnable attempts to downplay or outright whitewash it, and in addition to the evergreen issue at hand it also addresses something I see precious few people considering, that of the antisemitic policies of Israeli law enforcement and the IDF in the Gaza strip and West bank that either proactively decry the governments actions or offer aid to Palestinians in their immediate communities.
Harrowing, monstrous.

[Funt Solo]

Looks like the prognosis is OK so far - hope he's back on his feet soon. For those who don't know (and why should you if you're not from here?), our president is mostly a symbolic position.  Like the King, except we voted for him.

Well, best wishes for him.

[The Legendary Shark]

Palestine: A Video Essay by Shaun

Probably one of the best at-arms-length reflections on the ongoing massacre and Israels damnable attempts to downplay or outright whitewash it, and in addition to the evergreen issue at hand it also addresses something I see precious few people considering, that of the antisemitic policies of Israeli law enforcement and the IDF in the Gaza strip and West bank that either proactively decry the governments actions or offer aid to Palestinians in their immediate communities.
Harrowing, monstrous.

A good video, I thought, that gets the basics across pretty well.