That Twitter thread… You know the one

[Barrington Boots]

Just catching up on his Twitter rant and I'm pretty disappointed in some of his comments.

I've become pretty tired of ABCs and Slaine for the same reasons others have said above. Defoe was great for a bit, but the last couple of series didn't work for me at all. Savage though has been excellent and like Colin if there's one of his series I'd like to him continue it's that.

All his current series is not boiling over with new ideas or concepts.. 

Sadly true and illustrated on his Twitter feed where he has a pop at Hookjaw for not being a retread of the Action series. FFS.

[JayzusB.Christ]

For me it's Defoe. 

I love Sláine to bits, it's my all-time favourite 2000AD strip after all, but it's had more than a fair run: I'll miss it, but there's plenty of it to re-read. ABC Warriors has been great fun in recent years, but it's definitely been treading old ground. Savage, while really incredibly flexible in the genres it has effortlessly hopped, had maybe got a bit too involved in its continuity stitching efforts.

Defoe, on the other hand, has been completely fresh almost every time it's appeared. Booda's most recent space saga being the ultimate example: did anyone back in 2007 think we'd eventually be getting Reeks In Spaaace? I could definitely use more Defoe.

So I'll miss that, but mainly and always the excitement of a new Mills strip in the prog: you never, never know what you're going to get. There is something ridiculous about expecting any of these gods of the prog to still be serving us up brilliant comics at a per-page fee, now they are in their 70s. Wanting to do something differently, or wanting to do less, is their well-earned right.

Ah yeah, I don't think anyone is saying he's not entitled to do his own thing.  I mean, I wish John Wagner would go back to doing all the Dredds, but I just feel grateful that he stuck with it for so long.  I just wish Pat wouldn't be so arsey about the whole thing, and act like all other creators are in his shadow. 

That said, yeah, I'd like to see more Defoe too.  And I'd forgotten about Savage, which I'd definitely like to see more of as it edges closer to the world of the ABC Warriors / Ro-Busters. Ah well.

[TordelBack]

I just wish Pat wouldn't be so arsey about the whole thing...

I think arseiness is baked into the singular genius of the man; his supreme confidence about whatever subject he's tackling today, plus his conviction that small-minded grey men are working ceaselessly against the cause of art in general* and Pat in particular**, are what gives his work its unique bite. What I find irritating is the way some of his True Fans*** adopt the same tone, and pile onto his targets with all the ignorance and unearned righteousness of Termites.

One thing is clear, though: a creative powerhouse like Mills should enjoy all the bountiful fruits of his labours, and would in many other fields.  If he's cranky about reprint fees, rights and creative control, despite having been a knowing player in that very system, he's probably still got a right to be.


*True.
**Debatable.
***Among which I count myself.

[broodblik]

For me it's Defoe. 

I forgot about Defoe and it was definitely a lot more refreshing from the normal Mills stuff. But if I had to choose I would still say gives us a Savage finale.

I still believe that AD has more than enough talented writers to continue stuff like ABC and Defoe.

[alphadogau]

I do understand Pat's anger over the royalties situation. And it's clear from his tweets that he's leaving 2000AD because of that.
The bit I found harsh was the comments about "talentless hack" and "leeches" not be allowed to take over "his" characters. (I wonder if he includes Alan Moore in that category given he once wrote an ABC Warriors story)
It's one thing to not want someone to take over your characters but you don't have to have to rubbishy your colleagues.

I think it's telling that all the stories in SpaceWarp are written and (co-)created by Pat.

[IndigoPrime]

I assume Wagner is okay passing along Strontium Dog

As I recall, he said he was fine with someone else having a crack at the series, but he would never write it again.

If he's trashing his career at 2000AD, he's earned that right: there wouldn't be a 2000AD without him.

He has the right to trash his career if he so chooses. But the way he's lashing out at the comic itself, the company that makes it, and other creators, leaves a bad taste. (And, yes, there wouldn't be 2000 AD without him—but also without others as well.) That he's not consistent in his arguments is a pity.

Sadly true and illustrated on his Twitter feed where he has a pop at Hookjaw for not being a retread of the Action series. FFS.

That one baffled me. It's a very 1970s comics way of looking at the world, serving people up the same ideas week after week. That might have worked then; I doubt it would now. And that's even the case for children's comics, which are these days a bit more sophisticated. Also: we already have that Hookjaw. It's in the shelf. So why not try something new? If nothing else, that explains why ABC Warriors have basically been doing the same thing for decades now.

One thing is clear, though: a creative powerhouse like Mills should enjoy all the bountiful fruits of his labours, and would in many other fields.  If he's cranky about reprint fees, rights and creative control, despite having been a knowing player in that very system, he's probably still got a right to be.

I wholeheartedly agree, BUT. I live in a world of publishing. I've done this for 20 years. Last week, I was told I was likely to get a reprint fee on something. That's the first time this has ever happened to me, in 20 years. But, hey, I know my lot when I write and release something to a client.

It that fair? Possibly not. If I worked in comics, would I single out one company and argue they are somehow the big evil and that everyone else is super-lovely and offers "industry standard" terms when that—from all the input I've had from others—does not seem to be the case? Like hell. If nothing else, it shows Rebellion's patience and good nature to have not said: "OK, we're done." Instead, they seem to have just figured Mills will go off on one now and again, and so be it.

[TordelBack]

Can one really be said to 'trash their career' at 71? Pat's had his career, and then some, as a contract editor and work-for-hire writer. He's always been disparaging of certain other editors, writers and artists, and it didn't seem to do him (much) harm.

I can understand that he wants to create 2000AD (again), but this time he'll actually own it, and contrasting Spacewarp with the supposed shortcomings of his old employer and allegedly uninspired colleagues is a solid tactic: certainly he seems to get plenty of support for it on social media from people who only remember the good old days, but don't let it divert them from rubbishing a comic they no longer read (and to judge from comments if they do read it, they certainly don't buy it). Why would he go on writing for the competition who have 'stolen' all his ideas, when he has a shit-load of work to do for his own project?

I can also see that it's going to be a huge task, with very dubious financial rewards, and that only emphasises the knocking-stingey-2000AD contradiction. But any rewards there are will be his this time, and putting your money where your always-active mouth is can only be commended.

[13school]

I suspect what's probably colouring Mills' view of comics and 2000AD in particular is that he's nearing the end of a fifty year career in UK comics and it seems like nothing much has changed.

You can argue that his efforts with regard to creator's rights and royalties have been erratic and self-serving, but I don't think you could say they weren't heartfelt and a cause he's been consistently committed to. So to see that things in that area are for all intents and purposes the same after half a century - and pay rates seem to have actually gone backwards, at least in the last few decades - could be a reasonable cause for some public bitterness.

Maybe he was living in a dream world to think that comic creators would ever be able to expect solid royalties and / or a stake in the characters they created, but compared to how creators in other creative fields are treated it seems like a reasonable goal to aim for.

[IndigoPrime]

Thing is, it's more complicated than that. Pay's gone nowhere in decades. The same's true in my industry—when a leading Mac mag first commissioned me, I got an apology for the 20p/word rate. A few weeks back, I got an apology from a leading mag for a similar rate. But that's down to fewer and fewer people paying for things. Magazine circulation keeps dipping. Because of that, there's less money and so rates stagnate. It's the nature of the beast.

There are of course alternatives. If creators want to retain ownership, they can, either by self-publishing or via the likes of Image. But plenty of people have outlined that this isn't necessarily a road to riches. Notably, we saw Edginton/D'Israeli sell Scarlet Traces to Rebellion. And I've heard from a couple of parties that Image isn't a get-rich-quick scheme for comics creators, but additional risk with possible greater rewards in a very difficult market.

[CalHab]

Look at the number of Image series that have stalled mid-story arc while the creators do work-for-hire. As you say, it's a model where the creator shares in risk as well as reward.

[13school]

Thing is, it's more complicated than that. Pay's gone nowhere in decades. The same's true in my industry—when a leading Mac mag first commissioned me, I got an apology for the 20p/word rate. A few weeks back, I got an apology from a leading mag for a similar rate. But that's down to fewer and fewer people paying for things. Magazine circulation keeps dipping. Because of that, there's less money and so rates stagnate. It's the nature of the beast.

I suspect my industry is also your industry (though I'm writing for publications in Australia). And it's definitely true that pay rates for writers have stagnated or gone backwards over the last 20 years. But while there are a number of venues I know that have gone from thriving to struggling and simply can't afford to pay writers the equivalent of what they used to, there are others where the writers rates haven't budged while the marketing department has gone from one person to a half dozen (full time jobs at that).

Not to get off track, but in my experience writer's pay has stagnated for a whole range of reasons, some of which are down to management realising they can find people online who are willing to write for cheap because writing is a dream job for lots of people, and some of which are down to writing itself becoming the kind of job that only people with other sources of income (family money usually) can seriously consider so management doesn't really need to offer a decent wage. Some of those things can't be helped, and some of them should be pushed back against whenever possible.

[Colin YNWA]

Look at the number of Image series that have stalled mid-story arc while the creators do work-for-hire. As you say, it's a model where the creator shares in risk as well as reward.

This is the real issue for me. Creator owned is a wonderful idea. the reality is judging from the series that I've read which have ended short, or just disappeared mid-track from Image (as an example), from pretty big name creators too, it seems the risk doesn't pay off that often. Jim has commented on this any number of times. Therefore comics like 2000ad and other WFH publishers allow folks the 'luxary' of taking that risk. They therefore have to be viable.

Its not a big market out there. Most comics readers seem pretty conservative in their choices and how many series actually make it to the promised land of that tv deal?

[Jim_Campbell]

Its not a big market out there. Most comics readers seem pretty conservative in their choices and how many series actually make it to the promised land of that tv deal?

I've been doing this professionally for about twelve years. In that time, at least a dozen books I've worked on have had TV deals announced, or one of the creators had told me the book has been officially green-lit for production, and the number of those I've seen on the small screen? None.

[TordelBack]

This is all true, even the greatest, most popular comics creators in the history of the medium have struggled with making self-publishing/creator-owned work in the comics marketplace.

Dave Sim was the poster-boy and evangelist of the approach, running a two-to-three-person show with every page promptly reprinted and a monthly circulation of something like 25-35K copies, allegedly getting paid $100K for his single issue of McFarlane's Spawn, but even that level of success seems to have devastated his mental and latterly his physical health and left him in a perilous financial state. And he's a best-case.

It's a savage business both in and out of the corporate embrace, and in a world where the traditional comics giants only still exist because of their ability to flog IP to movies and games, rights are everything. If there is a better future, it probably looks like a shift towards the Raina Telgemeier model, publishing broad-appeal novel-sized kids'comics. She started out doing graphic adaptations of existing novels and properties, but I'd be willing to bet her Scholastic contract looks far more like a standard author/publisher arrangement than any creator that our forum traditionally discusses.

[JayzusB.Christ]

The bit I found harsh was the comments about "talentless hack" and "leeches" not be allowed to take over "his" characters. (I wonder if he includes Alan Moore in that category given he once wrote an ABC Warriors story)
It's one thing to not want someone to take over your characters but you don't have to have to rubbishy your colleagues.

This. 
For what it's worth, I think Pat's doing what he should be doing with Spacewarp, which is not having to deal with anyone else's decisions.