The Political Thread

[judgefloyd]

well thank you for posting the article.  I don't think it particularly shows that Carter is anti-semitic, except by virtue of not criticising Israel's actions in the way that Lipstader would like him to.  I get the impression that the only criticism of Israeli behaviour would that prefaced by a long session on how the Holocaust excuses everything. 
  I'm still baffled as to how Martin Luther King can prove that Jimmy Carter is anti-semitic in the future.  I read the quote and looked at myself in the mirror carefully.  Still fabulous, but still don't see Carter as an anti-semite, or how that quote could possibly prove it.  If that's what Martin Luther thought, he was wrong, which is not at all impossible.

Myself, I've never gone a bundle on fruit pastilles, but there's no arguing in matters of taste.  If you can convince him that Martin Luther King thought they were evil, you could get Beakysmoochies to mail you his.

[The Prodigal]

Okie-dokie then, by popular demand and constant baiting by some here (looking at YOU Rich), I'll respond to what I said about Carter;

I could tell you why Carter is an anti-semite in my own words, but you would just say I'm a right-wing bigot (the last defense of an exhausted argument from libs), I could link to a web page that explains Carter's deep-rooted hatred for the Jewish state in specific detail, but you would just denounce it as right-wing propaganda, so I'll give you a link to a newspaper that's far from being a right-wing/conservative site, and let that speak for itself, but before I do, that quote from Martin Luther King is not a "dubious" quote, no-one has ever disputed the fact that MLK wrote it in his own hand, if you have any evidence to the contrary, I'm all ears, but you can't, now then, that link-
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/19/AR2007011901541.html

- no doubt some here will dispute the article, but let it not be said here (looking at YOU again Rich) that I have not responded in kind, argument given, job done, subject over (for me anyway), unless you fancy going another round...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_an_Anti-Zionist_Friend

Sound dubious to me which is not to displace what others have said about MLK not being the supreme arbiter in all these things in any case.

[M.I.K.]

I think you're reading into it what you want to read

Guff. Makes no real difference to me what Carter thinks. I don't exactly have a shrine to him in the corner. I barely know a thing about him. What I want to read is a convincing argument, and that isn't one.

On the subject of Fruit Pastilles... The purple ones are my favourite, and after consuming a standard packet last week I couldn't help wondering why they didn't produce packets made up entirely of the purple ones, as they are generally the most popular. I then went online and discovered that Rowntrees had, in fact, already done this, about three years ago. They couldn't have sold that well, though, because I now can't find any purple packets for sale anywhere. I had missed my opportunity. Gutted, I was.

(Seemingly, you can get the blackcurrant ones in big bags alongside strawberry ones, but it's not quite the same).

[JOE SOAP]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_an_Anti-Zionist_Friend

Sound dubious to me which is not to displace what others have said about MLK not being the supreme arbiter in all these things in any case.

From M.L. King Jr., "Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend,"
Saturday Review XLVII (August 1967), pg. 76

However, no such letter was published in any of the four Saturday Review issues released that month.

The letter may have been based on a statement attributed to King at a dinner event in Cambridge, Massachusetts. According to Seymour Martin Lipset, an African American student made a statement sharply critical of Zionists at a dinner that Lipset recalled as having taken place in 1968, and King replied: "Don't talk like that. When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism."

Wise asserts that King "appears never to have made any public comment about Zionism per se." According to Wise, the Lipset quote does not support the claim that opposition to Zionism was inherently anti-Semitic, and the comment in question may have been limited to the specific circumstances: "As for what King would say today about Israel, Zionism, and the Palestinian struggle, one can only speculate." Kiblawi and Youmans suggest that a reliance on King's views in this matter constitutes a fallacious argument from authority, since Middle East issues were not among King's areas of expertise. They also assert that the Lipset quote was a reply to explicitly anti-white and anti-Semitic militancy of the time, and that most modern-day renditions omit this "crucial context".



So this letter Beaky's been swingin' out of is more likely fake propaganda hijacked by partisans and may indicate that MLK had a more sober view on the situation at the time. King supported Israel's nonviolent right to exist which is perfectly right but his opinion on the subject of anti-semitism was in the context of a response to anti-white and anti-Semitic militancy. That casts this thing in a completely different light.

[The Prodigal]

Okie-dokie then, by popular demand and constant baiting by some here (looking at YOU Rich), I'll respond to what I said about Carter;

I could tell you why Carter is an anti-semite in my own words, but you would just say I'm a right-wing bigot (the last defense of an exhausted argument from libs), I could link to a web page that explains Carter's deep-rooted hatred for the Jewish state in specific detail, but you would just denounce it as right-wing propaganda, so I'll give you a link to a newspaper that's far from being a right-wing/conservative site, and let that speak for itself, but before I do, that quote from Martin Luther King is not a "dubious" quote, no-one has ever disputed the fact that MLK wrote it in his own hand, if you have any evidence to the contrary, I'm all ears, but you can't, now then, that link-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/19/AR2007011901541.html

- no doubt some here will dispute the article, but let it not be said here (looking at YOU again Rich) that I have not responded in kind, argument given, job done, subject over (for me anyway), unless you fancy going another round...

"Some journalists and academics have praised Carter for what they believe to be speaking honestly about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in a media environment described as hostile to opponents of Israel's policies.[citation needed] Some left-leaning Israeli politicians such as Yossi Beilin and Shulamit Aloni argued that Carter's critique of Israeli policy in the Palestinian territories reflects that of many Israelis themselves.[21][22]" From the wiki reference on the book

Vicious jewish anti-semites! What next eh?

[Frank]

Demographics, rather than Tony Blair, are going to solve the problem of anti-Zionism. Israeli Arab's be fuckin', and unless the state of Israel wants to abandon democracy and universal suffrage, non-jewish citizens will represent the majority by the middle of this century. Once a predominantly Muslim regime is in charge of Israel's nuclear arsenal, it'll be interesting to see how long it takes for that state to go from our best frenemy in the Middle East to a threat to world peace.

I never understood why Palestine was chosen as the location for a jewish homeland anyway. If, as part of war reparations, Germany/Austria had been forced to surrender 8000 sqm (that's how tiny Israel actually is) of territory around the city of Vienna- home to one of the greatest concentrations of Jewish citizens before WWII- the sense of injustice felt by Palestinians could have been avoided. Might have been a hard sell persuading Jews to flock back to the Fatherland, mind.

[JOE SOAP]

Or move them to Indiana.


I found this fairly hilarious:


Israeli Government Tells Israelis Not to Marry American Jews


The Israeli government has launched an aggressive advertising campaign in the U.S. to discourage its expats from marrying American Jews—who some see as not really Jews at all.



http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/12/01/israeli-government-tells-israelis-not-to-marry-american-jews.html

[JOE SOAP]

Demographics, rather than Tony Blair, are going to solve the problem of anti-Zionism. Israeli Arab's be fuckin', and unless the state of Israel wants to abandon democracy and universal suffrage, non-jewish citizens will represent the majority by the middle of this century. Once a predominantly Muslim regime is in charge of Israel's nuclear arsenal, it'll be interesting to see how long it takes for that state to go from our best frenemy in the Middle East to a threat to world peace.

Only if the West seriously wants what oil is left there cos we have nuffin' to offer them except old T.V.s, bad-housing and some spring-water.

[Frank]

Or move them to Indiana. I found this fairly hilarious:

Israeli Government Tells Israelis Not to Marry American Jews

The Israeli government has launched an aggressive advertising campaign in the U.S. to discourage its expats from marrying American Jews—who some see as not really Jews at all.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/12/01/israeli-government-tells-israelis-not-to-marry-american-jews.html

"It's hard to find clear-cut numbers on how many Israeli expats live in the U.S., but the Jewish Channel reported about 2 million. The Daily Beast (see link above)

The total Israeli Jewish population is around six million. Total US Jewish population is five and a quarter million. Indiana might not be such a ludicrous location for a new Jewish homeland; apparently, it already contains a New Jerusalem.

[Richmond Clements]

Nazis. Every single one of you.

[JOE SOAP]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[M.I.K.]

Oy vey.

[Roger Godpleton]

My hair went mental curly because of summer and I looked like a Jew because jews have curly hair. NOW I AM CLEANSED BECAUSE JIMMY CARTER, DREADLORD OF PEANUTS AND ANTI-SEMITISM AND HIS ARCHPRIEST RICHARD CLEMENCE DEMANDED IT.

[JOE SOAP]

I'M WITH JIMMY CARTER BLOCK! WHO YOU FIGHTIN' WITH?

[Frank]

I'M WITH JIMMY CARTER BLOCK! WHO YOU FIGHTIN' WITH?

Is that one of those shitey wee one bedroom hovels he makes single Moms and Haitians live in? The fascist!