FFT - Quarter Final 2 - Kingdom vs Nemesis the Warlock

[sheridan]

Purity's Story has a brilliant scene where Nemesis looks into the future and sees what fate has in store for him, a future he can't avoid even though he now knows what it is, and it chills him to the bone and totally demoralises him. We don't find out what that is until Book X, but that scene is written in a way that makes the unknown seem terrifying and dreadful. For me it's one of the strongest moments in the entire series.

Isn't that scene in The Two Torquemadas, where Nem uses the chemicals acquired from the alchemist in Toledo?

[Blue Cactus]

But some people switch off for Hicklenton and Roach - whereas I think those books are some of the most challenging and interesting of the epic.

Purity's Story has a brilliant scene where Nemesis looks into the future and sees what fate has in store for him, a future he can't avoid even though he now knows what it is, and it chills him to the bone and totally demoralises him. We don't find out what that is until Book X, but that scene is written in a way that makes the unknown seem terrifying and dreadful. For me it's one of the strongest moments in the entire series.

Love that bit in book 8 where Purity recalls that Hitler loved his Alsatian and asks Torque 'Thomas, do you like dogs?'

'No.'

[sintec]

Must make a decision before I head out or I'll forget to vote on this. Think I'm actually going to go for Kindgom over the Warlock.

[Richard]

Isn't that scene in The Two Torquemadas, where Nem uses the chemicals acquired from the alchemist in Toledo?

Possibly!

[Colin YNWA]

VOTING CLOSED

Its an absolute testament that Kingdom ran Nemesis so close for so long. At the end Nemesis was just about to forge a lead with a strong late showing BUT man oh man did Dabnett and Elson's class thrill make it work. Its testament to Nemesis that it has beat two absolute giants of the Prog. Kingdom the definitive modern era thrill and Zenith the magnificently different thrill last time. Will it be able to take this further?

Nemesis the Warlock

is the second semi-finalist.

[IndigoPrime]

This forum's mouth is full of wrong.

[Colin YNWA]

This forum's mouth is full of wrong.

You know what I might just agree. I started to think what I'd do if it was a tie and came to this.

Nemesis is the classic, definitive old golden age thrill - I do love it.

Kingdom is the classic, definitive new golden age thrill - I do love it.

The new Prog is better than the old Prog, as much as nostaglia runs strong and is important and valid. Storytelling has grown and become better in the modern thrill and so I'd have gone Kingdom I think.

[sintec]

This forum's mouth is full of wrong.

You know what I might just agree. I started to think what I'd do if it was a tie and came to this.

Nemesis is the classic, definitive old golden age thrill - I do love it.

Kingdom is the classic, definitive new golden age thrill - I do love it.

The new Prog is better than the old Prog, as much as nostaglia runs strong and is important and valid. Storytelling has grown and become better in the modern thrill and so I'd have gone Kingdom I think.

Yeah this was the sentiment behind my own last minute choices. If I wanted to get a non-comics fan into 2000ad then I think Kingdom would be on my shortlist of recommendations. Nemesis for all it's brilliance is also very of it's era and gets tied up in various bits of continuity from that time. Kingdom stands alone.

[The Mind of Wolfie Smith]

i don't agree, col, naturally enough. i think storytelling was, in general, much better back in the day. at its best. of course, there was junker then and there is skippy today (although, y'know, the great john ridgway caveat).

as was pointed out in the halo qf thread, not a word was wasted in halo jones. in other words, every panel and every word not only painted character so masterfully but also contributed, intelligently and sometimes ecstatically, to the lean but multi-layered plot. the same could be said of zenith, wagner, and much of pete milligan's early work. this is NOT nostalgia talking.

in contrast, i think dabnett is a marvellous writer (to the extent that i pick up most of his american work, too). and he is clearly an absolute maestro when it comes to character and dialogue. but, really, an awful lot of that great dialogue could go - because, so often, it isn't serving the plot at all.

as for pat, i'm just not keen - and i know and respect that i'm in a small minority. it seems to me that his genius was and is character design and a few iconic slogans. but those slogans are often just repeated ad nauseam while his impressive central characters just endlessly faff about in the diminishing returns of the millsverse.

you know, i reckon that if halo jones were premiered today, unchanged, it would still be widely regarded as one of the greatest of all 2000ad stories.

[broodblik]

I am in agreement with Colin back in the days we had 4 or 5 series that was published in conjunction with each other and no new stuff was created at all.  Today we have twice that amount and we still get some new series created and published. Yes, this might cause the Brass Sun effect where we sometimes have to wait prolong periods for a new arc.

[Rogue Judge]

As a 'newer 2000AD reader, I've pretty much given most of the big 2000AD series a chance. If I read a little and like them, I typically go all in and collect the series (as available). I've gone on to collect SD, Rogue, Dredd, Kingdom, Lawless etc etc...two series I've not enjoyed so much are Slaine (except really early stuff) and Nemesis, I read a selection but have not pursued them any further. TBH I've found Nemesis a little cringy and just can't get into it.

Kingdom on the the other hand is definitely one of my top 3 all time favorite thrills.