The Political Thread

[Old Tankie]

Yes, Richmond, that's probably true, at least they'll be able to wave to the Scots coming the other way looking for work! 

Ah! the Daily Mirror and Andy Burnham, paragons of virtue.  Didn't he contract out Hinchingbrooke Hospital, down the road from me.  Turned it round from a failing hospital to a success.  Good on you, mate.

[Jimmy Baker's Assistant]

Yes. And I expect we'll have English health tourists after you allow the Tories to dismantle the NHS...

Maybe, but they'll probably get charged (like English students in Scottish unis) and Scotland will need the money so it could be a symbiotic relationship...

[Modern Panther]

If you regard "Westminster" as a euphemism for "the English", doesn't that give a monopoly on complaining about Westminster politics to people in England, since anyone else could be dismissed as a racist? "Westminster" is no more a euphemism for "the people of England" than complaining about Boris is the same as complaining about Londoners, or disliking the functions of the European parliament means you hate the Belgians. 

For what it's worth, I do think that the SNP's policy of refusing to share BoE debts without a share of BoE assets should be withdrawn.  But then I also think that the Westminster party's policies of refusing to negotiate any of the terms of independence prior to a definitive Yes vote should be withdrawn.  Both sides have reached the point of playing chicken.

We all want the terms of separation to be absolutely clear - they should have been pre-negotiated so that we all know what we will get if we vote Yes or No.  However, the government at Westminster (the British government, meant to best represent the best interests of all of the people of  these islands), has refused to discuss the possibility independence (after pushing for a referendum) and provided nothing more than absurd claims and threats of our impending doom, coupled with vague promises of undefined powers and jam tomorrow. 

And yes, the NHS is already devolved.  The issue is that Scotland is funded by a block grant.  Start with the amount of money that Westminster spends on England, reduce that to a fixed percentage, then remove from that figure the amount of money Westminster decides is Scotland's contribution to projects designed to benefit Britain as a whole (the military, the Olympics, high speed railways from London to Birmingham), and that is the amount of money given to the Scottish government to spend on Scottish services.  It doesnt matter how much money is raised in Scotland through taxation -  a cut in services in England, means a cut in the budget for Scotland. 

[Jimmy Baker's Assistant]

It doesnt matter how much money is raised in Scotland through taxation -  a cut in services in England, means a cut in the budget for Scotland.

I think that's right, although I don't believe there's really a tax and spend option on offer to Scotland. Currency union or sterling parity means being tied to English public spending, a new Scottish currency means weak exchange rates and therefore much higher costs for most products and services whereas adopting the Euro would lead to a world of pain.

[Jim_Campbell]

a new Scottish currency means weak exchange rates

Particularly if one of the first acts of an independent Scotland is to default on its share of UK sovereign debt. Financial markets don't look favourably on that kind of thing.

Cheers

Jim

[Richmond Clements]

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/clair-ridge-and-scotlands-new-oil-boom/

It'll be fine...

[Jim_Campbell]

It'll be fine...

The Americans will probably invade you...

Cheers

Jim

[Richmond Clements]

It'll be fine...

The Americans will probably invade you...

Cheers

Jim

We'll be ready...

[The Legendary Shark]

I find all this very depressing.  All those centuries of history, innovation and discovery and we're still squabbling over lines on a map and who gets to pay for what. It feels like we're going backwards.

[ZenArcade]

Ah, come on now sharky, you know it isnt quite that simple. Z

[Professor Bear]

They want away from Tory lizards/UKIP trolls, and who can blame them?  I imagine the equivalent would be that bit in Evil Dead where the man cuts off his wanking hand rather than be wanked off by the devil.

[The Legendary Shark]

Maybe things are that simple but we all think too much to see it.

[Frank]

Ah, come on now sharky, you know it isnt quite that simple.

It is though. What Rich says above is true - it will be fine, but that applies equally whether the vote goes YES or NO. Anyone arguing that Scotland's political class would be incapable of running their affairs as well as Norway, Denmark, Belgium, or any number of small and unremarkable European nations is clearly an idiot or a fucking cunt. Similarly, those arguing that the English have been conspiring to steal our cash and hold us back for centuries are dangerous morons who are looking for someone to tear them a new arsehole.

The Nation is a threadbare concept that looks like it's reaching the end of its usefulness after a little less than 150 years, and squabbling over whether we belong to the UK or Scotland at a time when both of those constructs have never mattered less is preposterous. It really wouldn't make any difference.

The hysterical level at which the debate has been conducted has given the impassioned wankers on either side the opportunity to demonstrate what colossal pricks they really are. If you've spent the last few months furiously arguing that if the vote doesn't go your way Armageddon awaits, or that paradise is promised to anyone who agrees with you, you're a fucking LIAR. I've no interest in sharing ANY country with you or in having the ideology driven, self serving cocks you would elect taking the decisions that affect my life.

[The Legendary Shark]

This gets my vote for Rant of the Week. Marvellous.

[Old Tankie]

Seconded