For everyone interested in Pat Mill's next Spacewarp:
https://www.millsverse.com/hellbreaker-fireintheblood/ (https://www.millsverse.com/hellbreaker-fireintheblood/)
Wow. The inference that mainstream British comics (which means, what, 2000 AD and maybe The Phoenix?) has "fast food" thinking and "cut corners". Hrnggg. (Also, apparently Spacewarp #1 was effectively a sampler; I thought it was originally mooted as an ongoing title.)
This news should have been released on a Tuesday, which is the traditional Mills-bashing day. As I am currently ensconced in a Thor's Day, I will simply wish him well in his new venture.
i wish him well, too. but i read the thrilling news and then it descends into something irascible and unpleasant.
and then the thrill has gone.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 28 April, 2022, 08:09:04 PM
Wow. The inference that mainstream British comics (which means, what, 2000 AD and maybe The Phoenix?) has "fast food" thinking and "cut corners". Hrnggg. (Also, apparently Spacewarp #1 was effectively a sampler; I thought it was originally mooted as an ongoing title.)
I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt that it's financially risky to produce an anthology at the moment hence focussing on individual stories, but...I'm also sceptical the first issue was as a much of a success as he's claiming it was. Who's buying it, exactly? Is it all middle-aged 2000AD fans or has it actually found the intended younger audience? I remain to be convinced of the latter.
It's definitely possible there may've been a bit of a drastic rethink to the publishing model and he's covering his arse a bit.
The other difference is that this is going to be a Kickstarter. This indicates to me that although there was interest in the first issue that it was not significant enough to do a second issue of Spacewarp. From my point good luck but I did not find the character or story interesting enough to invest in another Kickstarter.
Quote from: Goosegash on 28 April, 2022, 11:39:34 PMI'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt that it's financially risky to produce an anthology at the moment hence focussing on individual stories
I'm 100% behind that. Publishing
anything is risky at the best of times. Mag sales spiked during COVID and appear to have stayed quite healthy, but even so breaking on to the newsstand is horrifyingly difficult and expensive. On that basis, the Kickstarter route is a sound one – it enables a creator to see if there really are enough people to put their money where their mouths are. And assuming those behind the Kickstarter fully understand how the system works, it can be the best way to bring a new comic into being. (This, note, is no slight on Mills and his team. I've seen plenty of Kickstarters with the best intentions hit trouble because they overdid the extras, which then skyrocketed in price, or just failed entirely due to a range of reasons. It's somewhat easier if you cut down on the extra crap and just sell the thing you're producing, but then certain markets – including comic readers – seem to think a lot of the value is in the added tat.)
On that initial issue, we'll never know. He quite often quotes from kids, and I don't doubt there are children who have read and enjoyed Spacewarp. Even if they discovered it through parents, that's fair enough. My kid discovered The Beano, The Phoenix, Usagi Yojimbo and other comics through me. That's a natural path, and parents are often keen to share what they love with their children, in the hope they might find enjoyment from those things too. All of that is good. That he's trying his own thing is good. That he's putting his money where his mouth is, is good.
Again, my gripe comes down to him yet again making inferences about the UK industry. And, frankly, to take The Phoenix alone, accusing that publication of "fast food" thinking and cutting corners is ludicrous in the extreme. (He arguably has more of a point about its positioning – it can be a very middle-class comic at times. It's also quite safe. But his prior comments about price seem to have vanished as reality resulted in Spacewarp zipping from pocket-money friendly old-school working-class comic to being another expensive comic, even in its newsstand incarnation.) I suppose Mills is Mills, but it at best comes off as supremely arrogant and a little out of touch. Honestly, just Jamie Smart's output alone is enough to justify the entire existence of The Phoenix in my mind, but there's plenty of other great stuff in there, every single week, which feels like the opposite of "fast food" thinking and corner-cutting.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 29 April, 2022, 08:39:37 AM
I've seen plenty of Kickstarters with the best intentions hit trouble because they overdid the extras, which then skyrocketed in price, or just failed entirely due to a range of reasons. It's somewhat easier if you cut down on the extra crap and just sell the thing you're producing, but then certain markets – including comic readers – seem to think a lot of the value is in the added tat.
I've gone to numerous Kickstarter pages over the years with the intention of supporting a project, but given up because there doesn't seem to be an option to, y'know,
just buy the fucking book.
I think a "fast-food" mentality is an inevitable consequence of producing a weekly or monthly comic on an ongoing basis, rather than every once in a blue moon. Or, y'know, spending ages creating a comic, editing it for 3 months, and then moving on to the next one.
My problem with the now-and-then releases is that I lose interest and some cases forget about it.
Quote from: nxylas on 29 April, 2022, 02:02:26 PMI think a "fast-food" mentality is an inevitable consequence of producing a weekly or monthly comic on an ongoing basis, rather than every once in a blue moon.
I disagree. The inference is that these comics are ill-considered, throwaway, cheap and inferior. But that's just bullshit. You can create great content at pace, if you have quality creators and a solid editorial team. That you spend a year or ten years on something doesn't make it inherently better than something that was produced far more rapidly.
.....and if you look at the prog it is multiple great writers/artists contributing to the content
Quote from: broodblik on 29 April, 2022, 03:08:42 PM
My problem with the now-and-then releases is that I lose interest and some cases forget about it.
A lot of people seem to miss this point. With an anthology, especially, one of the key factors to success is
metronomic regularity. Not enjoying one (or more) stories in the current issue? No problem — there's another issue only a week (or whatever) away, and a change in line-up is always only a few weeks (or whatever) away.
If people have to actively
remember to seek out the next issue, you need them to be actively enthusiastic about pretty much all the content, or they just won't bother. And that's a tall order, for anyone.
Just because 2000AD comes out every week doesn't mean that it doesn't contain stories into which a lot of time and effort has been invested. It takes longer than a week for an artist to draw one episode. Some stories are months or even years in the making.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 29 April, 2022, 03:31:56 PMIf people have to actively remember to seek out the next issue, you need them to be actively enthusiastic about pretty much all the content, or they just won't bother. And that's a tall order, for anyone.
This is where Monster Fun might run into trouble. Two months between episodes of an ongoing story is going to be tricky for my nipper. She just won't care when she's getting eight issues of The Phoenix in that time. (For one-off strips, it of course makes no odds.)
But then Mills seems to now be saying Spacewarp was intended to be a sampler (which I don't recall at the time), and that future multi-story issues may well be launchpads.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 29 April, 2022, 03:16:10 PM
Quote from: nxylas on 29 April, 2022, 02:02:26 PMI think a "fast-food" mentality is an inevitable consequence of producing a weekly or monthly comic on an ongoing basis, rather than every once in a blue moon.
I disagree. The inference is that these comics are ill-considered, throwaway, cheap and inferior. But that's just bullshit. You can create great content at pace, if you have quality creators and a solid editorial team. That you spend a year or ten years on something doesn't make it inherently better than something that was produced far more rapidly.
That may be Pat's inference, but it wasn't mine. David Bishop once admitted that when he was editor, he was sometimes forced to publish strips that he knew to be sub-par because "you can't run five blank pages". I think that's understandable. No comic that produces that much content year-in, year-out is going to be on top form all the time.
I agree, but it doesn't necessarily follow that a longer gestation will guarantee higher quality. Time doesn't always improve things.
QuoteNo comic that produces that much content year-in, year-out is going to be on top form all the time.
2000AD has maintained a pretty steady level of high quality for two decades.
Quote from: Richard on 29 April, 2022, 10:23:56 PM
2000AD has maintained a pretty steady level of high quality for two decades.
And has been going for four-and-a-half ;) But there has been debate elsewhere on this forum as to why Skip Tracer keeps being recommissioned, to take but one example. People talk about the creator droids having compromising information on Tharg. My suspicion is that it's nothing more nefarious than that they get their work in on deadline, and don't require much editorial supervision.
Or perhaps... Tharg just likes it? A lot of what happens in any publication is driven by the editor. It's probably a combination of factors. But, frankly, even though I'm not a fan of Skip Tracer, I wouldn't even label that as "fast food" thinking or corner-cutting.
he just had to get a snide dig in didn't he...i am not supporting this cause quite frankly anyone who is into nfts does not get my time or money
i don't understand if mr mills is claiming that he "cut corners" back in the day - or that he is the one who didn't ...
Quote from: The Mind of Wolfie Smith on 30 April, 2022, 09:14:36 PM
i don't understand if mr mills is claiming that he "cut corners" back in the day - or that he is the one who didn't ...
I think I can hazard a guess.