Hi. Your friendly admin here. I've edited Tjm86's message to start this thread off with a warning. This thread will have major spoilers for Judge Dredd. If you do not want to know before you read your comic, don't continue with this thread.
Robinson's cover is a thing of beauty. Total chaos and a cracking use of colour to focus attention on what Dredd is about to do. Teague definitely knows his stuff!
(https://media.forbiddenplanet.com/products/77/a0/b8645885c7ca4cf7f1ef0109aa3db15589e7.jpg)
Oh, Thrills of the Future announces the next series of Dreadnoughts over in the Meg! Happy days.
But on to the prog ...
Judge Dredd: A Better World part 8
Okay, before getting in to this one I think it is fair to say that it deserves a spoiler warning. A rather substantial event that should not be covered in detail until everyone has had a chance to read it for themselves. So this is going to be a bit opaque in places.
Williams and Wyatt have upped the tension significantly over the last few weeks and now it explodes. Flint is given the script he seems to revel in and it looks like he had a field day with this. From those contrasting early scenes from an innocent child's eyes that are crushed Tianamen Square style to that shocking double page spread that serves as a freeze-frame for that moment, hammering home the impact, then Dredd's reaction and those final scenes ... Flint is the perfect man to represent chaos, to facilitate the flow of the narrative while still leaving the reader struggling with the whiplash of events.
In many respects there was an inevitability to events in this episode. It is a convention of Dredd that idealism ends up brutally suppressed by the inherent tensions in MC1. Whether it is the Judges, criminals or external forces, the outcome is always the same. The question is always where will the blow come from.
There is also a sense of timeliness in this story. Not that we are quite at the point depicted this week but the growing tensions in our country as populists inflame marginalised groups and jump on bandwagons is a very real issue right now. The fears about how the mob might act at any moment are pushing politicians and the police in uncomfortable directions.
Definitely. highlight this week.
Indigo Prime Black Monday Part One
Kek-W and Lee Carter deliver a far more action packed episode. It certainly has that disjointed, surreal feel to it in terms of script and artwork. Arguably Carter is one of the best suited of the current crop of artists for this strip and has been for a long time. I can't think of many that can capture that Burroughs-esque sensibility whilst making things look so believable.
So we have double crossing, betrayal and an impending torture scene with that ultimate question: Duke or Then There Were Three? Anyone else get the feeling Ken-W is not a Genesis fan?
What is impressive though is that after such a brutal Dredd, this episode still satisfies.
Full Tilt Boogie Book Two Part Five
De Campi, Oxana and De La Cruz have a real challenge living up to the standards of the first two strips then. To be fair, they do a sterling job. Ocana's colour palette suits the mood of the narrative; dark, moody and almost oppressive. The handful of revelations this week actually serve more to raise further questions than provide answers. It is ironic that are heroine is moving deeper and deeper into mysterious realms since that is precisely the direction of events this week.
FTB has arguably turned into one of the major successes of Regened. It wears its manga-esque sensibilities lightly whilst fitting neatly in that long history of Tooth strips that push readers' expectations. De Campi has created a fascinating universe, populated with intriguing creatures and characters. Not sure where things are going right now but it is becoming far more compelling as we progress.
The Fall of Deadworld Retribution Part Nine
In some respects then it was inevitable that this was going to struggle then. It is ironic that Ken-W has produced one of the weaker strips this week given what he delivered in IP. Kendall's artwork is as gloriously disturbing as ever. Ultimately though it is hard to engage with the confusion of the direction right now. Where that chaos works admirably in IP, it does less so here.
It was always going to be a challenge to weave the tale of events that led to the lifeless husk Dredd and Anderson encountered all those years ago. Now that we are bogged down in an alternate version of the Apocalypse War mixed in with Necropolis. Comments others have made about how things seem to have gotten away from Kek-W are not wholly unreasonable. It may work after a re-read but as things stand at the moment it is struggling to hold its own against the competition this week.
Thistlebone The Dule Tree Part Eight
This is particularly so when you consider what the prog is rounded out with. Eglington and Davis continue to weave their Hammer tribute tale in their own inimical style. Davis' artwork renders the horror spectacularly, conveying such disturbing events with his usual panache. What is fascinating is how he can combine cartoonish imagery with such perfectly formed figures and scenery so effectively.
As always this tale burns slowly. Eglington allows events to linger, leaving a palpable sense of dread at what is going to happen next. Then the pace steps up multiple gears towards the end before delivering the cliff-hanger.
This series is rapidly growing in stature. The first few tales were impressive enough but this one is shaping up into one to rival Cradlegrave as one of the most effective horror tales in the prog.
I think it is fair to say that as slowly as the year has started, this week marks a serious step up in quality. There is a fascinating balance of hard-core action, drug-induced mayhem, mystery and horror. Creative teams are delivering the goods in style and even the weakest is still effective enough to leave readers pondering their judgement.
As we've said so often, the prog has its waves. The lowest still leaves the competition in the dust but when it starts to pick up we're left in no doubt as to the quality of its output. I'd make a strong case for this week marking a palpable step change and if it is any indication of where things are heading this year I'd say that we are in for some serious treats.
Tjm86: I hope you don't mind, but given the nature of this Prog, I've added a bigger spoiler warning here than usual. broodblik: thanks for the prog image, which I've integrated into Tjm86's post.
So far, I've only read Dredd and, well, fuck. This is still one of the best and most powerful Dredds I've read in a long while. It's Wagner-worthy. But this such a downer in many ways. More later. And if people want to discuss Dredd and the ramifications, you're welcome to. This is a spoilers thread. I've placed an explicit warning on the lead post. If people amble in and see what happened before they read, that's on them. (And, honestly, I think there's a lot to discuss here.)
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 24 February, 2024, 07:47:55 PMTjm86: I hope you don't mind, but given the nature of this Prog, I've added a bigger spoiler warning here than usual. broodblik: thanks for the prog image, which I've integrated into Tjm86's post.
Not at all. I agree completely. I deliberately avoided saying too much because I didn't want to spoil the impact. I think I had pretty much the same reaction as you. It packs a massive punch.
As for getting into a serious discussion about that episode, I would argue that it needs to wait until the physical prog is out and there has been a fair amount of time to process / reflect.
I haven't read Tjm86's review thanks to Indigo Prime's spoiler alert but I'm now desperate to read the prog! Aaargh!
It will be worth the wait, I promise you.
I will never be able to be a vulture I do not have the patience to wait. So Wednesday morning cannot come fast enough
Which is the how the prog should be every week
This Prog was a bit of a shock to the system on a lazy Saturday morning and a great discussion of it from Tjm so not a lot to add.
Indigo Prime - pretty bonkers episode really. Definitely does feel disjointed and surreal in a good way. One thing I really like about it is how Depp is an actor in the strip and his films are films, but Christian-Bale Bateman isn't and he is a real person. Fits the nature of the strip perfectly. Weird GnR cameo too.
Full Tilt - really good. An episode that sets up new questions rather than delivering really. I feel like this strip is really growing and opening up into something really interesting.
Deadworld - better than last week, although I find it absolutely maddening how this strip jumps from one perspective to another so much.
Thistlebone - crossed a bit of a line for me this week tbh, I get it but not an image I wanted in my Prog. Weird how I can enjoy strips about guys being eaten by giant ants or killed in all sorts of nasty ways but this was a bit sickening.
Other than that, as perfect / horrible as ever.
Dredd... yeah, let's talk about this in a bit. Shocker. Magnificent. Brutal.
OK. I'm going to leave my Dredd comments until Wednesday. It's still masterclass storytelling, but my thoughts on what happened are very mixed, for a range of reasons. Also, a Rigellian hotshot to whoever in Royal Mail knackered by Prog by folding it firmly in half. Bah.
Elsewhere, then:
Indigo Prime was always weird, but John Smith mostly managed to keep it merely baffling, whereas this first episode is borderline impenetrable. It looks pretty good, but I dunno. I'm not feeling it.
Full Tilt is the second-best thing in the Prog for me right now. But it blazes through pages like nobody's business. I'm a little concerned it'll zip past and we'll then wait years for another book. Still, I'm very happy we have it.
Deadworld nudges ahead of last week's episode by having a bit more horror and a bit less Ridiculous Judges, even if half of it is an exposition dump and 'De'Ath' isn't convincing. I do also wish the De'Ath thing had never happened. It's so contrived. It would have just been much better when that popped into a writer's head (and I don't remember whose) if Sidney's surname had just literally been Death, like a calling...
Thistlebone continues to be horrible, in the best way. Although we again have a Prog of whiplash-like tonal shifts. (I'm fine with that. I like my anthologies varied.)
Dredd > Full Tilt Boogie > Thistlebone > Deadworld > Indigo Prime
First and formost why the HELL is the Prog so dark this week. Indigo Prime, Full Tilt, Deadworld or cast in too much shadow for my old eyes...
... okay that's not first and formost is it, that's DREDD but it seems etiquette is to hang back so I'll respect that for now except to say wow. Kinda comin' but wow the execution was amazing. I'll be back when the conversation starts.
Indigo Prime was really good and is moving into very interesting places already. For me it didn't feel especially baffling.
Full Tilt Bogie is slowly weaving its tale. I think this one will feel better when read as one the pacing isn't quite there for the five page chunks.
Deadworld errr this one is baffling me now.
Thistlebone I mean what other strip in comic history centres around hanging a dead badger by the neck from a tree and is still so good. Brilliant.
First time writing here, but I've been reading since '86 on and off. This is certainly a more exciting time than the 90's.
First Dredd
I'm not going to discuss until next week but this episode is a masterclass in the use of panels to control pacing.
Fall of Deadworld
I've read the whole thing up to date recently so it's all making sense to me. This means that I'm enjoying it more than most on here, it seems. I'm struck after the catchup that it's actually a much smaller story than I thought when reading weekly. Essentially we go from Jess meeting Fairfax, to the resistance base, to the Apocalypse War, with a brief side story to introduce Eastwood. As read in one go it's really pacey.
Full Tilt Boogie
Another one where I differ from the majority. To me the art is fine but a but simplistic and brown. This would be fine but I'm finding the story completely unengaging. I missed the Regened issue and the first series so maybe if I track those down then it'll connect more.
Indigo Prime
Again, I've read most of this recently in the Ultimate Collection and remain pleased but mystified by most of the back story.
Having said that I'm really enjoying the start to this run. I think it's because it's the first time I get all of the references without doing a ton of research.
Thistlebone
Magnificent. That is all. My 16 year old son has remained resolute that 2000ad is not his thing since I tried to introduce it to him years ago. This has him opening the prog before I get to it every week. Its the best of a very strong lineup imo.
Can't wait for next week.
amazing prog this week especially dredd but i am gonna refrain from talking about that just yet
I'm only reading 3/5 of the prog at the moment because two of the strips are not to my taste, but the remaining ones more than make up for the loss. As for Dredd, all I can say is, "Wow."
Quote from: Rogue Trooper on 07 February, 2024, 04:35:46 PMMajor Domo is ... what? He doesn't even have a strong visual design. Man in coat.
This was what distracted the storytelling for me in this episode - I had no idea who the non-descript guy in the cell was supposed to be. Especially since he'd lost his coat. It was clear we were supposed to know who it was, but it left me scratching my head. It finally came to me a while after reading. (I realize this might just mean that I'm getting slow and addled, but there you go.)
Given the events in the story, this just became probably my least favorite Dredd story ever.
Ah, finally Wednesday morning.
I'll just download my prog and see what all the fuss is about...
Wow. One for the ages.
That was Major Domo? Only just realised from reading comments above. Initially I just thought it was some random that had been let out for some unspecified purpose, as we couldn't see what was in the case. It was only at the end of the episode that I realised he was the shooter, which I guess made the big event even more of a shock to me as I didn't see it coming.
As much as I enjoy an unexpected double-page spread like this, I'm not convinced that Maitland is really such a huge character in Judge Dredd to warrant the massive reaction this seems to be evoking in some people (although I'm glad they are enjoying it).
I assume it's good for discussion now.
I think if anything it's more how this was crafted that's given it such a lot of impact. I think a lot of us posting here suspected this would happen once the story launched but I was still taken aback.
The opening page with the childs point of view ups tha pathos, and then immediately preceding pages, with all those tight little frames, really ramp up the tension and desperation and then you turn to that double page spread, displayed completely without dialogue or sound effect despite the chaos depoicted there, and it's very powerful. It was very emotive for me, anyway.
In terms of ramifications, I feel this could go either way in terms of what Justice Dept do next. I think it's a terrible shame to lose this character but it's pretty on-point for Dredd's world.
I thought she'd probably cop it at the end of the story, but not so unexpectedly. I'm guessing Domo goes free, Glenn wriggles out of it somehow, Hernandez gets taken down by Dredd, and maybe one or two sectors continue to run the experiment, which gets quietly forgotten over time.
She might not even be dead. The way it is drawn the bullet is grazing the left hand side of her head. I'm assumimg it been drawn as a side on view from the opposite side to be deliberately ambiguous.
I hope not, that would be such a cop-out!
Quoteand then you turn to that double page spread, displayed completely without dialogue or sound effect despite the chaos depoicted there, and it's very powerful.
I agree with that.
Quote from: Magnetica on 28 February, 2024, 12:43:49 PMShe might not even be dead. The way it is drawn the bullet is grazing the left hand side of her head. I'm assumimg it been drawn as a side on view from the opposite side to be deliberately ambiguous.
Yep. That's what I thought.
Quote from: Richard on 28 February, 2024, 12:49:11 PMI hope not, that would be such a cop-out!
But less predictable, and if she dies
and everything resets back to "normal", that would arguably be a far greater cop-out.
I mean, she's been shot through the forehead by a sniper. If she rocks up and everything is OK next week, then that would be a surprise and deeply weird. And given that there's only one more episode to wrap this up, my guess is that relatively little will be wrapped up. The story feels more like the first chapter of the next arc of the Williams (and perhaps Wyatt) Dreddverse, presumably with Hernandez as the big bad.
One question and two observations from me:
Assuming all this does come to pass, will Dredd regret his actions? He's been oddly ineffectual in this tale, and despite being a supporter of Maitland – an accounts judge, remember – didn't seem that bothered about making sure she was safe, when he was very aware about those conspiring against her. Dredd sometimes grumbles he lacks friends and allies. Well, this is why.
Secondly, while there is undoubtedly impact from this story, I do think it's a great pity to wipe out a very rare prominent female character (and POC) in a strip that is still very, very male. The creative team will have to be very careful to not have this drive Dredd's 'revenge', or we're getting close to fridging territory. But more broadly, I do wish there was simply more balance in this world set over a century in the future. Remove Maitland and Beeny from the strip and there'd be almost no women and certainly none of note. That still feels odd to me. If nothing else, it feels dated in that manner Wagner used to talk about, in not having women hurt in Dredd strips.
Finally, wear your drokking helmets, judges! That may not have helped Maitland, but good grief.
Pah. Dredd took a sniper shot straight through the head and he was better by the end of the following episode. No stamina, these modern judges.
(https://i.imgur.com/dDZSEV3.jpeg)
:lol:
To be fair, his brain is coated in Lead Character Armour. Whereas Maitland may now have a case of Your Arc Is Over Syndrome.
On the third page of Dredd, what "Drokking thing came alive!" that is "supposed to be inactive". To me it looks like the filing box in the bottom right corner of the panel, but I realise that isn't the case. Is it the something to be with the cube of shards in the background? And is that a thing I've forgotten is a thing?
Very much enjoyed the prog, I'm just confused by this one bit.
Presumably whatever almost took out Giant earlier in the series.
Quote from: Richard on 28 February, 2024, 11:46:55 AMAs much as I enjoy an unexpected double-page spread like this, I'm not convinced that Maitland is really such a huge character in Judge Dredd to warrant the massive reaction this seems to be evoking in some people (although I'm glad they are enjoying it).
I completely agree with you and personally don't believe she warrants Main Character status. Regardless, I'm looking forward, not only to next week, but also the next thrilling chapter of this arc.
I dunno. What is a major character? Dredd these days is more like several universes running in parallel. But there surely becomes a point where a character is prominent and influential to the degree that they matter. I can't imagine too many would begrudge Giant that status, say. Or Nixon. Or even Janus, for that matter.
Also, purely subjectively, I liked this character. She was in many ways a breath of fresh air, in all kinds of ways. Wiping her out makes Dredd's world a little bit duller, and judging by quite a few frames in the strip, primarily populated by intolerant men who care far more about power than justice and people's wellbeing. Which is perhaps the point and a nasty analogy for today's reality.
You can imagine something similar today, in various areas. UBI has been tested dozens of times now, for example. You just know governments are waiting for the one time it goes wrong to tear it down and hurl it into the sea. Same here. Her project ran effectively for an entire year. But one fuck-up that my MC1 standards isn't exactly massive (and that is clearly the result of antagonists) and – boom – it's all gone. (Probably. I guess we'll know for sure next week.)
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 28 February, 2024, 01:40:46 PMI mean, she's been shot through the forehead by a sniper.
She's certainly been shot in the head.
Quote from: JimmyNailz on 28 February, 2024, 03:52:17 PMOn the third page of Dredd, what "Drokking thing came alive!" that is "supposed to be inactive". To me it looks like the filing box in the bottom right corner of the panel, but I realise that isn't the case. Is it the something to be with the cube of shards in the background? And is that a thing I've forgotten is a thing?
Yeah, that's almost certainly one of those snuffbots from the auction scene. Giant mentioned there was another one and I was sure the guy Dredd shot down was going to be controlled by one of them, rather than the real Major Domo.
I liked Maitland too and I'm gutted.
Main character status?
Cal was in ten stories. Maitland fifteen.
Of course, it's subjective.
Quote from: M.I.K. on 28 February, 2024, 04:40:55 PMQuote from: IndigoPrime on 28 February, 2024, 01:40:46 PMI mean, she's been shot through the forehead by a sniper.
She's certainly been shot in the head.
We can clearly see the exit sound at the back of her head. She's dead.
*exit wound
(Although I imagine it also made a sound. A squelchy one, probably.)
Perrier meant more to me than the irritating bean counter.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 28 February, 2024, 04:28:47 PMI dunno. What is a major character? Dredd these days is more like several universes running in parallel. But there surely becomes a point where a character is prominent and influential to the degree that they matter. I can't imagine too many would begrudge Giant that status, say. Or Nixon. Or even Janus, for that matter.
Also, purely subjectively, I liked this character. She was in many ways a breath of fresh air, in all kinds of ways. Wiping her out makes Dredd's world a little bit duller, and judging by quite a few frames in the strip, primarily populated by intolerant men who care far more about power than justice and people's wellbeing. Which is perhaps the point and a nasty analogy for today's reality.
You can imagine something similar today, in various areas. UBI has been tested dozens of times now, for example. You just know governments are waiting for the one time it goes wrong to tear it down and hurl it into the sea. Same here. Her project ran effectively for an entire year. But one fuck-up that my MC1 standards isn't exactly massive (and that is clearly the result of antagonists) and – boom – it's all gone. (Probably. I guess we'll know for sure next week.)
Quote from: Rogue Trooper on 28 February, 2024, 05:15:31 PMMain character status?
Cal was in ten stories. Maitland fifteen.
Of course, it's subjective.
I dunno, someone who made a long-term impact on either the title character, location and/or a story/character arc, whilst still alive...?
That double page spread is of course presented on two separate pages in the digital prog (at least, that's how my CBR file reader's done it). Upon seeing just the left half, my immediate thought was that Maitland, after approaching him on the previous page, had been shot by Dredd.
Anyway. Running out into a full-scale firefight, screaming for the participants to stop? Not sure about that.
Quote from: norton canes on 28 February, 2024, 05:46:12 PMThat double page spread is of course presented on two separate pages in the digital prog (at least, that's how my CBR file reader's done it).
I use CDisplayEx and it has a setting where can view it in Double Page mode, so you can see it in its fully glory.
Given how strategic she was, it felt a bit weird for her to not do calculations such as:
- Should I run out of this building into a screaming mob, and;
- Should I first put on my helmet, so someone doesn't shoot me through the forehead
But, to be fair, she was probably pretty stressed at that point and we all do stupid things.
As for impact, sure, Cal had loads because he upended the very nature of the city. But I'm not sure this needs to be a pissing contest. Some folks here couldn't give two hoots that the accountant is dead. I'm personally sad, because she was a character I really liked and who was a bit different and because she provided some balance and diversity to a strip that is so often Judge Dredd And The Many Mostly White Men of Mega-City One.
Bah. (It's also quite dispiriting to wonder if the worst-cast scenario of sorts is rocking up next week, in terms of the strip ending on a downer. Maitland: dead. Maitland's ideas: dead. Glenn: not dead and possibly even getting away with his shit. Hernandez: I dunno – maybe he kicks the Chief Judge into a pile of deranged Hondo City robots, claims the title for himself, and then thumbs his nose at Dredd, who's demoted to traffic duty in Sector 304.)
QuoteI do think it's a great pity to wipe out a very rare prominent female character (and POC) ... Remove Maitland and Beeny from the strip and there'd be almost no women and certainly none of note.
We used to have Judge Sanchez, whatever happened to her?
We're assuming that Dredd is still alive. (Which is a fair assumption.)
I remember Rob Williams once saying something like: "Don't get too attached to my characters in Dredd" and you can see why. I was gutted about Judge Sam and still am, I am.
Henry Flint mentioned in the Thrill Cast that there was a head in hands, moment crying out "Noooo!" and there it was.
It makes it somewhat hard to invest in a story and the characters, if one has this pervading sense of doom over them and it appears we are just waiting for 'that' moment. Why do the good guys always die? Or do we just feel it more when they do? Is that just life in MC1?
Apart from ol' Dreddy of course... although you never know with Rob around...
Ffs. For the third time this week, I've written a long post, pressed 'post' and come back to find it's disappeared. Could be my new phone.
Anyway, as has been mentioned upthread, a cranial exit wound in Dreddworld doesn't necessarily mean death.
I've only read Dredd so far this issue, and I found it very powerful and absolutely heartbreaking- not so much about Maitland but about her dream, violently crushed underfoot like so many MC1 visions of a better future.
Since Al Ewing left, I've struggled to be invested in a (largely) post-Wagner Dredd. I didn't give a flying feck what happened in that Horsemen of the Apocalypse one, for example, and barely remember how it played out. But this one has been breathtaking- the end of most episodes have had me excited for the next in a way I haven't been in ages, even if I knew it would most likely be an America-style tragedy unfolding.
I hope she's not dead and I don't think that would be any more of a cop out than everything going back to the status quo at the end of the story.
Dredd himself has cheated death plenty of times.
I just think the idea of Dredd taking on Hernandez to avenge her death isn't as interesting as Maitland taking him on herself.
I also found the guy breaking out of the cubes confusing. Didnt realise it was major Domo until reading this thread.
And Maitland running out into a fullscale riot shouting "Hey guys, please stop" seemed out of character for her or any judge really.
The end is played quite well - my first assumption was that Dredd's not getting help from Control because there's effectively a coup happening, and they're deliberately leaving him to die in the riot.
When I played it over, it could just be confusion from Control, and the big knock to his helmet may be the thing that's cut off his comms.
On balance, I think it's supposed to be the first thing.
---
I'm pretty much in IP's mind (sorry, IP) regarding everything else.
I've not been a fan of the the entire Reine Rouge arc, mind you - so I'm kind of coming into this bitter. There's just too many toy-shop, Millar-esque things going on for me to be able to willingly suspend my disbelief. Regicide played Maitland as gung-ho, enormous-gun-toting action hero (when before she'd been considered, and more of a planner), Dredd got teleported across the world but nobody cared, Atlantis was a magic space in which you could both see everywhere but also be in cramped tunnels at the same time, Orlok got turned into a clone-joke and every single minor villain who hadn't died (even brainless beasts from a zoo) all got tooled up and joined the same (stupid, doomed) gang in Hagger They Fall - which featured an anthropomorphic gumshoe cat, ffs. Why would the Wally Squad infiltrate something so hard that everyone in the room was Wally Squad? But then this is like asking Mark Millar why lava doesn't hurt much.
I think I'm just pissed off that the survivors are a Trumpian Kingpin knock-off and a man-in-a-coat-who-lost-his-coat, but the interesting character got offed to make Dredd mad. Salty.
QuoteAnyway, as has been mentioned upthread, a cranial exit wound in Dreddworld doesn't necessarily mean death.
Not in 1978, sure. But today, that would be pretty silly.
All a matter of perspective, int'it?
Quote from: Rogue Trooper on 28 February, 2024, 07:07:44 PMThe end is played quite well - my first assumption was that Dredd's not getting help from Control because there's effectively a coup happening, and they're deliberately leaving him to die in the riot.
When I played it over, it could just be confusion from Control, and the big knock to his helmet may be the thing that's cut off his comms.
On balance, I think it's supposed to be the first thing.
I tussled with this and pretty much came to the same conclusion. After the way the Judges discussed how the handle the riot in an earlier part its not unreasonable to believe this might be deliberate BUT we'll find out next Prog I guess.
As for Maitland the impact of this was pretty devestating and so I'd be pretty disappointed if she wasn't dead, but that said i got over Hershey easy enough. As it was the story seemed to be building to this so in one way it wasn't too much of a surprise. Except the execution was sublime and the page turn made it so powerful.
I'm not sure how else this story could go and to leave Maitland on the board would put the status quo at too much risk and this is a very good way to drive the story on. Still we'll see if there's more twists to come.
Maitland wasn't stupid, so I'm hoping she'll have some post-death contingency plan to torpedo Hernandez etc rather than this be an excuse for Dredd to rage up and go on the rampage.
The bigger tragedy seems to be her plan, which was working and making things better, is going to die with her. It's bleak stuff, and although this outcome seemed predictable when it started, it was a hard read when it happened.
Can't disagree with all the comments about Major Domo and his arc being a bit pants and he needs to go. His absolute blandness of appearance is surely the point though as he needs to be unremarkable to do what he does.
On the Domo topic, it certainly looks like Hernandez let him out which seems ludicrously stupid. Surely this will just get traced back to him straight away? Could he not have hired a different assassin?
One thing that's worth bearing in mind: you can have things happen through inaction. So we may see Dredd furious with himself (and taking it out on others) that he didn't do more to help Maitland when he knew full well she was a target. And we may also see the current CJ shown up to have just allowed 304 to be ruined, because it threatened his rule. (Vs Hernandez, who has been more directly involved in making it fail.)
As for what's next, I do like Boots's angle: Maitland assisting Dredd from beyond the grave would certainly be a lot better than Dredd whacking people with his daystick in a fury about something he himself could have potentially stopped from happening.
It's a pity though. Had Maitland and her scheme survived, it could have created some really interesting ongoing tension in the strip. But it's probably too big and disruptive and idea to survive, and a status quo of some kind always bubbles back up in Dredd, no matter what's happened previously.
I thought it was a bit odd how much power Glenn has.I feel like in Dredd strips of old a TV presenter would be instantly shut down and thrown in the cubes for inciting a riot.
I've been away from the prog for a long time though and just started reading at part three of this story so maybe I'm missing something.
I wonder if the Domo thing is misdirection in both story terms and for readers as well. We'll see next week but I'm no convinced Domo actually has anything to do with the bullet shot... we'll see.
Next weeks story has a lot of ground to cover... or not and we'll be left with questions as we move onto what's next.
Quote from: Vector14 on 29 February, 2024, 11:38:19 AMI thought it was a bit odd how much power Glenn has.I feel like in Dredd strips of old a TV presenter would be instantly shut down and thrown in the cubes for inciting a riot.
He's pro-Justice Dept and anti-reform, isn't he? The judges will leave him alone for precisely as long as he's useful to them.
I also think that Hernandez let Domo out and left him the sniper rifle to do what he was hired for in the first place to get rid of Maitland. I think next week episode might be more straight forward and Dredd over time take down the Hernandez faction.
Quote from: norton canes on 28 February, 2024, 05:46:12 PMThat double page spread is of course presented on two separate pages in the digital prog (at least, that's how my CBR file reader's done it). Upon seeing just the left half, my immediate thought was that Maitland, after approaching him on the previous page, had been shot by Dredd.
Anyway. Running out into a full-scale firefight, screaming for the participants to stop? Not sure about that.
If you're using the app and rotate the ipad it'll show the full spread. (but smaller, thereby reducing the impact, but that's just a limitation of physics than anything intrinsically wrong in the prog. I checked out the spread in tescos, since I'm a digital reader and man it's a cracker)
Yeah, I need to see it in print!
I have a big screen attached to my PC - so the electric (sic) version looked great on my PDF viewer. (It's got a button for displaying the front cover on its own so that the double-page spreads are displayed correctly.)
Shout out to the sign: "WE WANT LIES". Very now.
---
What about Indigo Prime, though? I'm not sure what to think of the metatextual call back to the entire Tyranny Rex storyline. It's worth bearing in mind that the framing for Soft Bodies (one of the more extreme depictions of the character) suggested that the entire story was a pumped-up fictional version of events. Trying to pin down Tyranny on that basis would be like hunting for the stash from Fargo.
Maitland means much more to this Squaxx than Cal ever did :'(
As for Dredd not supporting her as much as we'd have liked, he considered her 'a good Judge' and would probably be happy to leave her to deal with stuff. Even with a price on her head, I doubt he'd worry too much. Occupational hazard for a Judge.
I Reckon Hernandez has covered his back pretty well too. The mech-box-thing coming to life and causing chaos will probably be blamed for Domo getting free. And as for who pulled the trigger... I've a feeling Domo will be blamed and placed at the scene, but it wasn't him.
It has depressed me though, and not just because we've lost Maitland, but because it's so very on the nose for the state of the current world.
I remember being optimistic for the future back in the 90's. There's none of that now.
It's becoming very clear that things will probably never get better, and Mega-City One is clearly no different.
(Shark) Bah.
Mm. It's very much along the lines of fearing the worst and then getting it, rather than there being any sliver of optimism. I can't imagine anything that could happen next week that would make things 'better' in that sense. Dredd rocking up, growling and punching Hernandez in the face isn't going to cut it. Maitland, in the end, is just another example of a brief shining light in Mega-City One that was mercilessly snuffed out because the people in charge continue to delude themselves that they're doing it for the people, when they just don't want to relinquish any control.
Again, it'll be interesting to see if this will – or even can – have any long-term impact on Judge Dredd (the strip and the character) as a whole. How long will Dredd himself continue to dodder along, accepting the need for some change, and arguing that the few allies need to make that change from within, when they are constantly bumped off by ambitious judges who seek power, not least when he refuses to take responsibility in any meaningful sense?
It's a salutary lesson for Judge Beeny, that's for sure.
Quote from: Richard on 29 February, 2024, 05:02:42 PMIt's a salutary lesson for Judge Beeny, that's for sure.
Good point - I'd forgotten about Beeny. I suspect John Wagner had a vaguely similar arc in mind for her character before he semi-retired.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 29 February, 2024, 04:17:57 PMMm. It's very much along the lines of fearing the worst and then getting it, rather than there being any sliver of optimism. I can't imagine anything that could happen next week that would make things 'better' in that sense. Dredd rocking up, growling and punching Hernandez in the face isn't going to cut it. Maitland, in the end, is just another example of a brief shining light in Mega-City One that was mercilessly snuffed out because the people in charge continue to delude themselves that they're doing it for the people, when they just don't want to relinquish any control.
Again, it'll be interesting to see if this will – or even can – have any long-term impact on Judge Dredd (the strip and the character) as a whole. How long will Dredd himself continue to dodder along, accepting the need for some change, and arguing that the few allies need to make that change from within, when they are constantly bumped off by ambitious judges who seek power, not least when he refuses to take responsibility in any meaningful sense?
Sorry for the double post but I've just remembered the Fargo issue too - Dredd's known for decades now that Fargo didn't believe in the system himself. I know it's been mentioned since but I'm not sure it's really been addressed properly.
I suppose, realistically, things can't change too much, otherwise there's no Dredd strip. 35 years ago Dredd's age was slowing him down, making him doubt the system and causing him back pains, but here we are with our favourite geriatric in tight leathers still tearing round the streets on his motorbike fighting young people, and still questioning that same system.
Okay.
It's conceivable that Maitland had a plan when she rattled Hernandez's cage. It's conceivable that she put a robot double in place to seemingly take her out of the picture. After all, she and Dredd were talking before she confronted Hernandez. Neither of them are stupid. Both of them can anticipate and plan.
God, I hope so.
Regards,
Robin
And yeah, some of us do consider Maitland a major character.
A major character or a major supporting character...?
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 29 February, 2024, 07:26:43 PM35 years ago Dredd's age was slowing him down, making him doubt the system and causing him back pains, but here we are with our favourite geriatric in tight leathers still tearing round the streets on his motorbike
I think this is where I'm seeing my vested interest wain somewhat as we all advance in age. Sure, of course people will want to see Dredd go on and on and on into his 80's, 90's and beyond.
I'm not sure I do without losing some credibility down the back of the sofa along the way.
Wagner had me with his doubts and inner monologue about the system, we got to know Dredd a bit with his narrative. As someone else mentioned, Dredd seems to be doddering about a bit these days.
What ever happened to Rico I wonder?
Isn't he already in his 90s? Can't be too far away anyway.
Mid-eighties biologically, I think, (not counting any rejuve treatments).
85 biologically (2146 minus 2061).
Born in 2066 at the artificially-advanced biological age of five.
Thanks.
Unless the author's going to pull a deus ex machina, which would be lazy, MC1 will get much worse. Once you let riots run out of control, the genie doesn't go back into the bottle, and the judges have been chronically undermanned for years. A political system that's been slowly failing will fail faster and, sadly, a way to fix it has just been killed.
I suppose that depends on Tharg and whether or not Dredd is now like a Marvel strip where big events happen and are sometimes referenced afterwards but where everything effectively resets even after major trauma, or whether it's still a strip with the capacity to evolve, in ways that are more permanent.
Tonally, it always shifted because of John Wagner, but he's clearly no longer the driving force behind the strip. But there's also no obvious successor, unless that's Tharg himself as editor. Instead, we have several parallel realities of sorts, which don't overlap all that much, even if – through some skilful writing and editing – they don't contradict all that often.
Honestly, Mega City One logic has always been a house of cards. 800 million in a city of the size it used to be, with the density we saw in most frames, was nonsensical. And today there are similar issues, given that Chaos cut the population back so severely. Even though the numbers have been subtly ticking upwards in the Nerve Centre box, we're still at 200 million. Again, given the density, most of Mega City One should be empty, and that in itself would cause massive problems regarding crime and security.
So probably with this latest story, it'll just be a very good yarn, but the following week we'll return to business as usual, and the next time we'll be reminded of Maitland, Mr Sniper Dude, Hernandez, Hernandez's spectacular moustache and Knock-Off Trump will be when Williams (and perhaps Wyatt) next write a Dredd series.
I wonder if we're already ramping up for an epic 50th anniversary story?
Yeah this is the biggest question. I know some of us on here predicted this story would end in tragedy when it started because it would put too much of a dent in the status quo.
I've been reading Dredd for well over half my life and I'm comfortable with, and even eager for, the concept of major shifts in the status quo, but realistically is Dredd now too big of an IP to mess with it like that? I suspect so. It seems a cert that although the arc finishes next week the implications will linger, but for good or bad I hope this does trigger a bit of a shift in things across the whole of Dredd and not just Williams stuff.
Unrelated but I hadn't considered that Major Domo wasn't the sniper before people raised it here, but I think that's a great idea that could add more to the tale.
Quote from: norton canes on 01 March, 2024, 11:12:59 AMI wonder if we're already ramping up for an epic 50th anniversary story?
By Wagner?
That would be good.
Dredd gets piles & goes on an adventutre to buy some Preparation H and a nose hair trimmer
Young Dredd has an accident with a teleporter/cloning machine combo during a freak time storm and multiple copies of him scatter throughout time allowing him to be whatever age you fancy indefinitely. :)
Every 10 years however many are alive at the time get together for a shindig and a catchup and the youngest agrees to take over when the oldest dies. The ones in between get a lifetime off.
I know a lot of you guys wanted the Maitland experiment to work but that would have killed the thing that makes MC1 so interesting: the madness, stupidity the ultra violence, the psychos , the simpletons. What type of stories would we have if all sectors where happy and peaceful - picking flowers, making tea or just how to hula-hoop stories.
There were potentially other avenues, in that it could have continued as-is rather than spread, causing some great tension. The issue with reverting quite so severely to the status quo is it leaves Dredd himself totally isolated. He has repeatedly recognised the need for change. He has Fargo's words ringing in his ears. He's constantly supported Beeny. So where does that go in light of this story? Probably nowhere. But that makes Dredd a walking contradiction – a hypocrite, really. At the very best, he's going to need a pair of extra tight boots while immersing himself in constant peril and danger, to distract from his own inaction.
Also: say Hernandez becomes the big bad. Inevitably, he'll be beaten because big bads always are. So we get a new Chief Judge, presumably backed by Dredd. But Dredd himself obviously won't step up. And then what? He walks away, while everything slowly repeats in slightly different ways. It's like he has no self-awareness sometimes.
I'm incorrect, as seen in authoritarian regimes, in that you can put the genie back in the bottle if you beat enough people with daysticks. That creates huge resentment, usually leading to cycles of more riots and beatings. The status quo can be restored, just uglier.
I reckon there's another story in this. Maitland had lieutenants and they saw the evidence, first hand, her idea worked. They're demoted and scattered to nothing jobs but can see MC1 creaking under the strain. Meanwhile, Dredd investigates how an assassin simply walked out of prison. This leads to why and what Dredd really hates: politics. Dredd is a believer in the daystick but really hates corrupt judges, so has to ally with said lieutenants against Hernandez. Hernandez can't demote or publicly slander Dredd 'cos he's Dredd. So, it's time for even more murder and intrigue at the highest level.
That angle was never from a rooftop tho.
Maitland certainly had supporters, although I'm not sure how many people were working under her (nor how many really wanted to). The tricky bit is figuring out where this entire strand ends up, and what part Beeny would then play.
Dredd has always considered her the future (or at least 'a' future), but clearly in the Williams/Wyatt Dredd universe, she has no future. People like Hernandez want the hard rule of law. Throughout the story, we saw Judges letting shit happen to get their way. Logan comes across as complicit or – at best – unwilling or unable to push back against those elements and so does not. Surely at some point, Beeny is either removed from the board as well, due to being a reformer, or has to play an endless game of keeping her head down until she is disillusioned with the system to the point she wants no further part in it?
There had of course been hints that she could be Chief Judge. But in this version of the Dredd universe, that seems about as likely as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez as US president, or Caroline Lucas being UK PM.
Quote from: BPP on 01 March, 2024, 01:08:41 PMThat angle was never from a rooftop tho.
All things considered, I'm glad I'm not a good judge of realistic angles of sniper fire from rooftops.
Quote from: broodblik on 01 March, 2024, 12:05:36 PMI know a lot of you guys wanted the Maitland experiment to work but that would have killed the thing that makes MC1 so interesting: the madness, stupidity the ultra violence, the psychos , the simpletons. What type of stories would we have if all sectors where happy and peaceful - picking flowers, making tea or just how to hula-hoop stories.
I wondered about a middle ground where the experiment had limited success. Or - if you really wanted to lean into the madness of the city angle - the entire NW Hab Zone seceding from the rest of the city. Now I'm on that path - you could have Beeny as CJ of the NW Hab Zone. Dredd stays there, and the main city goes down the ultra-authoritarian path it was heading for when TC tried the takeover a few years ago.
Quote from: Funt Amenable to Change on 01 March, 2024, 03:24:54 PMQuote from: broodblik on 01 March, 2024, 12:05:36 PMI know a lot of you guys wanted the Maitland experiment to work but that would have killed the thing that makes MC1 so interesting: the madness, stupidity the ultra violence, the psychos , the simpletons. What type of stories would we have if all sectors where happy and peaceful - picking flowers, making tea or just how to hula-hoop stories.
I wondered about a middle ground where the experiment had limited success. Or - if you really wanted to lean into the madness of the city angle - the entire NW Hab Zone seceding from the rest of the city. Now I'm on that path - you could have Beeny as CJ of the NW Hab Zone. Dredd stays there, and the main city goes down the ultra-authoritarian path it was heading for when TC tried the takeover a few years ago.
Then the NW Hab zone can't handle all the regular citizens who want you want to defect to their utopia. Maitland follows the numbers and their system only works perfectly with the optimal amount of citizens. They have a tide of regular mega city 1 "refugees" they can't handle, echoing the real world economic west.
They end up erecting walls, caging kids and shooting illegal immigrants in order to maintain their perfect utopia AND BECOME THE THINGS THEY FOUGHT AGAINST! :D
Quote from: BPP on 01 March, 2024, 01:08:41 PMThat angle was never from a rooftop tho.
I can't quite figure out Maitland's position here. Given that we see the (incredibly fast moving) bullet's trajectory, she must already be falling backwards when the bullet hits her. I guess it's artistic licence, showing the shot and the resulting fall in one frame.
Jovus, that double page.
Started reading Dredd with the Mega Collection and later prog 2073 so for me Maitland's always been there and I would consider her a major supporting character. Her death felt just as impactful as Hershey's (both times) or if a character like Beeny got killed off. I'll be disappointed if this is some kind of fake-out though