...Oh great joy, here we go again for another 13 weeks of Dr Who, as last year, please post your views comments and brick-bats here...
...the Sisters of Plentitude wish you long life, meeeooooww!!!...
Never mind the program... I've been waiting for Uncle Umpty telling us all he didnt watch it!
Guh... not sure that I could put up with that for another 13 weeks... ;-)
Anyway, Charlie Brooker's preview suggests this opening episode may be like last year's Rose - a bit messy and incoherent but full of promise - and that it shouldn't be taken as representative of the quality of the new series. Brooker also has a preview tape of next week's episode, Tooth & Claw, which he compares to the second ep of the first series in terms of fulfilling the promise of the opening show.
Dammit! I'll be at work! Anyone know if they're repeating it? BBC3 perhaps?
http://www.whoisdoctorwho.co.uk/
heh heh heh...
yeah both it and the confidential are showing on sunday
Yup, Brooker was right - an unfocused mess of an episode. There were some good moments in there, but Davies seemed to be trying to force three different episodes into one & it didn't succeed. Some nice effects work in there, some good performances (though I cringed through the Doctor-Cassandra performance from Tennant) and some interesting elements that could have been worked into a more satisfying whole.
Still, next week looks promising & I'm hopeful that this is just a bit of a misfire at the beginning of a good new series.
It seemed to have been done the world of good being freed from all the exposition, just crashing straight in there with the story - but still a bit sci-fi lite, innit?
Ah well, after last series I know what to expect when I watch a Russell T Davies episode now, so I'm no longer too put out. Just hope the quality is better on the non-RTD episodes.
Pretty good - plenty of simultanious posts so no apologies for any duplications...
New Earth (Nu surely) look great complete with Mega City style city blocks. Those robot scout bugs were a total lift from Minority report.
What's the chances of going 5 billion plus years and you meet all your old props once again!
Nice ending although I thought those winged dude would appear as past and future Cassandras were in the same time and touching! Consciousness only so we'll maybe let them off.
Overall a good start, Rose looking very busty, decent Matrix style sets and cracking Cat makeup. Resolution was a bit straightforward, but straight into the number one slot, well at least untill Bullseye starts on Challenge on Monday 10pm.
I liked it. The Doctor - Cassandra performance from Tennant made me smile, I thought it was good. Next weeks looks darker and Tennant said on Radio 1 that it was a frightener. Kids behind the couch time then ?
It was lightweight but fun. Sure, it was a bit confused, but Dr Who always has been ;)
Next week's looks f***in' excellent :)
i didn't watch it either
I'm not sure what to make of that episode.For every good idea there was a wrong step.Still I think it worked just,though the plague clones need hug resolution was a tad daft.
The stuff I liked most was:Rose/Cassandra,the great cat make-up,some fun lines such as "the flesh is free",and the effects all looked smart.
Only things that really bugged me were the fact that for a new earth filled with humanity's varied offspring most of them looked rather,well,human,if you know what I'm getting at.
There was a bit of overacting,nothing to bad.
Also I hope we have not seen the last of Cassandra.
Next weeks episode looks like a cracker.
I enjoyed that: a good first episode. Have to agree with Lord Running Clam, though: "For every good idea there was a wrong step".
As usual, the science/fiction didn't add up, but it was good entertainment.
And I thought the ending with the two Cassandras was very moving, and the best bit.
Hm. I'm hoping we have seen the last of Cassandra - she's not that interesting a character, and I think that she served well to bridge the first and second series, but there's no need to bring her back again.
Also didn't think much of the two Cassandra ending - the sudden compassion toward Chip-Cassandra from Past-Cassandra didn't quite convince, and I feel that ending the episode with Past-Cassandra swishing off after their conversation, then having Chip-Cassandra pass away would have been more satisfying.
I'm still feeling that there were too many subplots in there for the running time - Cassandra, the Sisters' flesh farm, the Face of Boe, the petrifying politician... 45 minutes was never going to be enough to do justice to them all.
I reckon the ending would've been just as moving if Past-Cassandra had just gone swishing off after their conversation. It was the conversation between Past and Future selves that was most moving, not the compassion that the Past version showed the Future version.
It was all a bit of a shambles story wise, but looked great and was enjoyable enough. Tennant was great, look forward to seeing some calm bits though.
Also, I'm guessing RTD has read a few Alan Moore comics as I've seen various things lifted from his stuff, Halo Jones moments in the first one, Constantine Bo in this one. Could be my imagination, but I've had that dejavu a few times now. Also, wasn't Moore the first one to mention Time War in his Dr Who strips?
Regardless, I don't see these as flaws. But as far as the general writing goes, I'm also looking forward to the non RTD stories, sorry!
and look out for the Iron Legion references in episode 3?
Good, enjoyable, light-weight fun imho. Just right for tea-time family entertainment. The kids, especially the 3 year old, loved it.
Plotwise a bit of a mess but looked good, had some great (and some not so great) dialogue, and was mostly well performed, especially from DT & BP.
Thought the cat-nuns were great (if a little underused). The zombie scenes I enjoyed (a couple of nods to Romero??). Most of the fx were very well done, and the whole 45 mins just flew by. Can't grumble, just didn't blow me away. A solid 6 out of 10 for me.
Alan!
so its a winner then?
expecting my copy to arrive by wednesday.
if i paid license fees i would say the BBC are spending them well recently.
Dr who, life on mars,SCI FI on the beeb. wonderful .
fun but as many others said not the best really looking foward to a werewolf in (victorian) scotland though
The Sarah Jane Smith and K9 stuff on the trailer gave me goosebumps.
Yeah, kinda enjoyed it probably 'cos I knew it was written by Russ and wasn't expecting much.
Bits i did'nt like, by DumbLad (age 31 and 3 kwortas):
hhat bizzy insidentl musik they always use in the prolllog when hey're tryna make fings urjent.
Aliens wot look like animals.
doctor Who's racist 'Go play wiv a balla string' indeedy.
fings wot almost worked:
MrTennant. i fink he is be brilliant if only the produkshun teem had'nt make him speek like Mikal Cain. I am wanting a Cyberman will knock him on his gorblimeehead and he started talking like a scottish Proper.
DoctorWh's outrage. So contrive a times as be trite.
hTe endnig. Would of been byootifl had it dunsoafter mr.Chip says his bit. i know MR>CHip is to die, seein it makes me fink its girlie sentimentlpink.
Wot i liked most:
I am likng getting xxcited when dancy peepl dance and htat voice sez "aND Now its time for Doctro Who!!!!!!!!!!!
i liked it. messy, cheesy as hell in places & slightly confusing, but isn't that half the point?
also, david tennant, *le sigh* the three 20 year old ladys in my sitting room were so glad that that snog we've been seeing in the ads were just due to flat faces machinations.
Heh. Tennant's reaction immediately after that snog was very Kenneth Connor. C'whor.
Had a little think, and I think in a strange way... This episode worked. Aside from the dodgy resolution to the flesh sub-plot (what is it with this Who and zombies, anyway?!) I thought the other subplots worked quite well together. I mean, who else could send messages across time and space to the psychic paper than the face of Bou? What would the hospital have been without a sinister side that materialised with the Flesh? The petrified man was a really nice aside as well, his assistant was a cow though...
Perhaps splitting the Cassandra and New Earth plots into two different episodes would have worked... But then this episode wouldn't have been anywhere near as fun!
Overall, I quite enjoyed it and it's really good to have it back on the telly! Can't wait for next week, huzzah for Victorian England!
Victorian Scotland, rather. ;)
did any one notice the cats growling was the same sample as the fiends from the original Quake?
Interesting story - completely messed up resolution though. Pass it on? Do me a favour. Far too convenient.
Billie has once again surprised me with her acting. She was great as Cassandra. Tennant was pretty poor to be honest. I like him, but can't help feeling that he's dicking about and the sudden turns to 'Doctor Snarly' don't help.
I quite liked the Duke's assistant. She had some good lines.
"did any one notice the cats growling was the same sample as the fiends from the original Quake?"
You bastard, Tweak! I'm going to have to watch that again, now!
I mean, who else could send messages across time and space to the psychic paper than the face of Bou?
Ohh! I'm going to tell her you said that!
One of the Sunday papers went as far as saying the T in Russell T Davies stood for Tosser. A bit harsh I think, it was a first episode and had other stuff to do as well as tell the story.
But we'll see how the rest of the series goes. I'm rewatching series one, and enjoying the aliens of london two-parter.
I await it with interest, especially the news that Rose is now 'busty'! Has she cleaned up her mockney accent yet?
Aliens stood up surprisingly well on recent reviewing. I'd be shocked if anything ever beats The Empty Child for sheer Whoey goodness but Aliens and Boom Town were a lot of fun.
I've been watching the first series with my eldest niece and nephew and on Wednesday we watched Dalek through to Empty Child and the thing that struck me most was that whilst they could follow the plots of most The Long Game didn't make any sense to them at all. I suspect that this episode will fall into the same catagory of entertaining to watch but baffling.
I find the Slitheen highly annoying, but I think storywise it's rather good. All the stuff with the code words lighting up the alert for the doctor were really good.
I think if kids are finding some of the stories confusing, then they need a bit of work.
But, hey, beats working on my underground city. David Essex likes to do all the thinking, but does the bugger ever pick a shovel up? No.
when he was in the lift shouting "pass it on" i honest thought he was shouting "party on" ...
party on would have been a lot funnier and less cheesy.
As a qualified physician (ahem...) I can certify that yep, that is indeed how it works. At my hospital, rather than treat all our patients, instead we prescribe a course of antibiotics for one patient and ask them to shake hands with all the others in their ward. That usually does the trick, and cuts down on our drugs bill no end too!
Had low expectations due to Brooker but I was mostly entertained... though some of the writing was well slack: "I don't want to die!" next second "Oh it will be all write, I'll die after all". And I hope they don't make too much use of the magic plot-solving psychic paper (having one magic plot-solving device - the sonic screwdriver - can be overlooked but two is a bit much. Still the line 'Oh my god, I'm a chav!' was class.
I prefered "Now that is enigmatic. That is text-book enigmatic"
Funny as her reaction was, would Cassandra actually know what a chav is? And how likely is it that Rose would think of herself in such a derogatory way?
It pretty much sums up Russell's approach to the eponymous Doc. Glossy, superficial nonsense. Everything he reputedly hates about '80s Who.
Cassandra said whatever the year 5bill word for Chav is but the Tardis translated it for Roses conciousness that was still squashed inside her head and we heard it that way too.
If the meds were I.V. how come they worked on contact?
Hey! Let's play the Matrix Databank game!
>> If the meds were I.V. how come they worked on contact?
The farmed humans all had broken skin that allowed the plasma to pass into their bloodstreams quickly.
Ooooh, nice one.
Lots of fun!
Rose (my Rose; not the Doctor's Rose) hardly cried at all during it.
Which is a good sign!
- Trout
Overnight ratings in - approx. 8 million watched, with this likely to increase once final figures are in in a week or so.
well, i seem to have watched this episode with a lot less cynisism that some people. enjoyed it for the most part, a fun, no brainer to get the series of to a start. the 'talking out of your arse' line made me laugh out loud. rose as cassandra was highly amusing. though didn't like the fact that everyone lived in the end. people are suppose to die horribly in doctor who.
btw, surely it was obvious that cassandra's change in personallity came about because she went into the diseaser half-human (or whatever they're called) for a moment, and what she saw horrified her and gave her a different outlook on things.
how bloody brilliant does next week's ep look. it'll be nice to get a REAL history ep again. that dickens ep last year was fab.
This was superb. Sub/middle/wraparound plot may confuse annoying people in the pub who go on about the same idea when it has already been viewed and granted dismissal, yet still do not get the hint, but for me everything locked together with my attention span.
Great script.Which was well endorsed along with the special FX. Infact they set the script up!. I could have watched that all day. Tbh nothing compares to the job that gave me a thrilling afternoon today, on the box this easter weekend.
I love Tennants Doctor. I still don't see why he is so attractive but his Doctor skills are worthy of MY admiration.Brilliant.
You know what really appealed apart from Zoe Wannamaker?
The fact that at the root of all the so called nonsense,there was an undeniable faith in the scifi content to create an intriguing story.
FN
The moral unmaked itself in textbook integrity too.
Pretty shoddy, IMO. Tennant was great - as was (shock) Rose - but the script was so full of stupid arsebobbins I don't even know where to begin with all the little things that made me and my viewing Cadre groan.
To pick a random few:
5 Billion Years in the future and people are still watching sentimental old 8mm cine reels? Where did she get that from anyway, given that she was a fugitive with only a brain and a scampering freak?
It was quite lucky that Cassandra happened to have a little scampering spidery Minority Report thing out on the hillside just as the doc showed up...
Why did the diabolically bad zombie-disease clone guys not die of their infections? And, before you say, "the disease carrier is always the last to go" is NOT an explanation.
How precisely did the doctor's cocktail of cures work again? Umm... by giving each of the zombies the power to CURE by TOUCH? Um, um...
There were at least three scenes filmed, I kid ye not, using the plain undecorated no-set-required interior wall of the bloody studio. Fibreglass behind chicken wire and gantry stairs. 5 billion years in the future. Uh-huh...
So... the cat-women were already on the planet when all the humans showed-up? Right? Isn't that a bit of a coincidence? Claws and miawing and whiskers and everything...?
Etc etc. I know, I know, suspension of disbelief, but that storyline was just so cockingly abysmal it throws all the other little nigglages into stark relief.
And I simply don't understand what the special effects department were playing at. They can handle funky little spidery bots and flying cars, but can they make a hideous plague-infection look convincing? Or a cat-nun falling down a completely pointless airshaft? Can they cock.
Still, I'm pleased by the fact that most of the reasons I hated it were entirely due to the script (or the demands placed on the sfx guys BY the script), rather than the actors or the relative Fun Levels or whatnot, so I'm a lot more optimistic about the non RTD episodes to come.
I'm already wondering if there'll be another clever-clever "Bad Wolf" concept unifying all the stories, and - if so - whether it'll actually deliver on the promise this time. Didn't spot anything, other than the Head of Bo's "next time we meet" schtick... Anyone?
So, Si, you spotted it was bollocks. Well done! :-)
I don't care. I still thought it was fun.
- Trout
'I don't care. I still thought it was fun.'
Isn't that the point? We just got the series over here, so maybe I don't get it, but I'm not sure if you're supposed to think that hard about it.
"I don't care. I still thought it was fun."
Mm. So's sex, but if you're stopping every five minutes to think "hang on... why the hell did *that* happen?", then something ain't right.
But I take your point. I think the minutiae need to reflect the quality of the big picture for me, that's all. The script was pretty dire, but if everything else had been superb I think I would've forgiven it and concentrated on the "fun". As it was... Blech.
Anyway.
Wait until you're my age, then you'll just be pleased to get some.
-pj
Some possible Bad Wolf type things spotted on another board...
The plague extras mention 'The Machine'
The Moon as a motif (the sign of the hospital), next week is werewolves.
The Face of Boe is from the Silver Devastation.
All those I think have Cybermen connotations...
- Steve
My five year old was running around the morning with his toy sonic screwdriver, wearing my leather coat. He IS the Doctor when he does this.
This is the target audience of the show, not the 30 something fanboy. I think if everyone could watch the show through the eyes of someone this age, they'd realise that the magic is still there in the show. It's just not in the eyes of the jaded fanboy.
What bugged me was why didnt Cass just jump into her own younger self and live forever in a great big time-loop-thingumy-bob? Thats what I'd have done.
Erm,anyway thought it was fun if a bit stupid. and next weeks looks great!
I find it disturbing that a five year-old can wear your coat.
How big is he. or how tiny are you?
I thought it pretty much sucked too. Wanted to like it but, like Si says, so many things keep getting in the way.
RTD should get somebody in to do the science bits of his stories (and not somebody from down the pub as it seems in this one). He seems to want to rush headlong from one "emotional" scene to the next and doesn't seem to care how he gets there whether it be dodgy science, incredible leaps in logic or complete character reversals.
The Cassandra character was an annoyance in the first place and brining her back for more pantomime antics was a mistake, in my head.
I'm actually not terrifically convinced by this new Doctor either. I'm waiting for a consistent bit of character to come through.
And both Ecclestone and Tennant come over as massive egotists "There is no higher authority".
I can't remember much about Doctor Who but I can never remember him coming out with this sort of smug bolleaux.
(At this point, a thosand Who-ers will point out all the different times that the Doctor has said "I AM God". But can I point out that
a) I did say "I can't remember much about Doctor Who" and
b) unless it was one of the first four Doctors, it doesn't count.
Adding to the nitpicks: How come a mental grafting device was needed for Cassandra to posess Rose the first time but after that she just floated about at will?
But next Victorian Scotland Werewolf Ninja episode does look interesting.
I noticed the camera none-subtle lingering on the cat that was looking after The Face as she was led away... I'm sure we'll be seing her again.
The major problem with Doctor Who, and one it will need to get over eventually, is that it isn't Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I suspect if Sarah Michelle Geller had been desperate enough she would have been RTD's perfect choice for Rose, even with a Dick Van Dyke accent.
For all it's faults, I enjoy watching the show, and will watch it every week regardless. As has been said - as long as 'the kids' like it, I can live without it being my Doctor Who. Which is perhaps how I should think of 2000AD :p
It's struck me that if you put New Who up against Firefly... overall I'd go for Firefly. Which I find a bit sad, because really it should be the best sf series evah. (The backlash by bitter old geeks starts here!)
I find it disturbing that a five year-old can wear your coat.
How big is he. or how tiny are you?
Heh! I didn't say that it fit him terribly well, just that he wore it.
there is a huge tendency in RTDs stuff to write the doctor from the viewpoint of him you get as a viewer - so he is always describing himself and what he stands for or is, as if in the real world (something RTD often spouts he is keen on) anyone woud car. too many, "i am he doctor and i..." speeches. thats what you get if you read too many comics kiddies!
it was all bit "empty child" lite, trying to emulate that stories emotional core in RTDs usual rushed and illogical way. That said, watching the confidential, and seeing McCoy that i havent seen in near twenty years reminded me why this is so much better than it could have been.
the show could be great, if Russell just let others do the scripting and plotting, and he did the overall mood and dialogue.
I mean, it doesnt take a genius to sort out a few of the problems - the lift thing and "pass it on" could have been avoided if the Doctor had used the sprinkler system to hit the whole hospital. Of course, that doesn't explain why the drugs would (instantly!) cure patients suffering from diseases they are presumably still working on cures for... otherwise, whats the point of having them infected with diseases they can already cure?
But as i say, frustrating and fun in equal measure.
The bbc3 repeat had optional commentary which my fave part of was this little nugget
David tennants impression of zoe wannamaker was at one point snidely refurred to as a snagglepuss impression by tennant himself
Wheadon's stuff really grates on me, but Firefly for all it's wheadonisms is the better show I'd agree. Although if I had to choose, I'd choose Doctor Who, because... it's Doctor Who, even though it's influenced by Wheadon.
And though the special effects in Who are good, but not as good as Firefly, you'd expect us to be able to have better scripts.
The only non Doctor Who show I've seen by RTD is Second Coming, where Jesus Christ sacrifices himself on some poisoned spag bol. The whole show builds to a climax and you realise he has nothing to say (except what the doctor, sorry - Jesus, just comes out and tells you what the two hours of TV have been about) and tghe show cops out at the end. Presumably all of his shows can't have been like this or he wouldn't be where he is?
I reckon with the moons and wolves, we're going to get to the end and RTD goes 'double bluff, it's bad wolf AGAIN! Weren't execting that now were you!?"
Anyway, I'm moaning for the sake of it, I'm never that fussed at the end of the show. The show where I'd be less forgiving is Torchwood, it's for adults and I think my expectations should be high for such a show, but we've had a lot of BBC ventures into this territory and I can't help but feel the 15 year embargo on SF has left us all a bit clueless.
Listened to a interview with RTD the other day and he came over as a bit of an arrogant dick to be honest... bleating on that Dr Who won't win any BAFTAS because the powers that be are against it...
Still fingers crossed for the next one... The new tarisode (god I so hate that word) wets the anticipation (plus the long long trailer for the rest of the series - like Sarah Jane and Rose having a 'I've seen more monsters that you competition'). Obligatory grump: too much trailering/spoilerage kind of ruins the episodes a bit.
Of course he's an arrogant dick - he works in television! ;p
RTD's scripts do seem to have this air of someone having lots of very exciting ideas for stuff that would look great on telly, and bunging in any old plot device to string them together, rather than having the discipline to edit out those really cool ideas that don't actually serve the tale. Given this, and his tendency to ladle on the sentiment, may I suggest that this type of script henceforth be referred to as Egg McGuffin?
Yes, retardisodes and the trailer which seems be longer than the series - both could give me an episode of grumpy old men all to myself, mind you, I couldn't not watch em :p
I'm not very worried about the series, I suspect it's going to follow the same path as the first. Frst episode a bit pants, second episode better, third a cracker and then we're more or less on target.
this new new who sounds very good; cat people, nuns, Rose, the tardis, a doctor who looks like he's twelve years old.....I can't wait!
but I'll have to wait anyway, because I'm in Australia. dang.
New-Earth = Earth with (gasp!) hover cars!
Shyea! I suppose in 5 billion years time there'll be robots that can walk up stairs too!
Unlikely!
-hex
Never worry Quirkafleeg.
I did indeed watch it.
Very disapointing.
Tennent was good but everything else was poor.
Change the writer, get rid of Rose, change the programme format. Get back to multi parter stories.
The old Jon Pertwee episodes bbc3 showed the other week really showed up this effort.
Well, things can only improve.
6/10
The old Jon Pertwee episodes bbc3 showed the other week really showed up this effort.
I saw a couple of them, if we're talking about the ones with the appalling acting, laughable dialogue, endless running around shouting to no good effect, inconsistent characterisation, rampant and reactionary sexism, blatant rip-offs of other and better sci-fi writers and a load deus ex machina devices?
Exactly!!
They just don't make 'em like that anymore.
I thought it was OK. I don't really think much to Cassandra as a villain. It seems that RTD is really trying to get his creations to stick as part of Dr Who lore. It seems that the recurring character to episode ratio is pretty high with RTD's characters (Slitheen, Face of Boe, Cassandra, the prime minister woman). I can see why he wanted to have Rose's family in the first series as something for kids to relate to but do we really need to see more of Cassandra in place of creating some more new characters? They could have taken out the Cassandra plot completely and just focussed on the evil cat nurses as villains - to my mind this would have made for a more interesting episode.
"I don't really think much to Cassandra as a villain. It seems that RTD is really trying to get his creations to stick as part of Dr Who lore."
Let's face it - no pun intended...Cassandra is really a fleeting cosmetic surgery gag, not really a character with any presence or menace (I mean, she's stuck on a frame), and not really funny the second time.
ADE
Yep. I agree. It wouldn't surprise me if 99% of RTD's motivation for having Cassandra return was to have that 'talking out of your arse' line.