2000 AD Online Forum

Another Saturday Prog, so its now outside to sit in the sun, drink a mug of tea, smoke a couple of fags and enjoy that weekend Thrill Power.

Link: Prog 1585

A great Saturday, a mug of tea, a couple of fags the sound of my pond in the background and a saturday prog in hand.

Cover Nice design but lack lustre image. So an ok cover but is it down to the artist or Pye-01

Dredd Great art and decent story make this the highlight of the Prog and another Class Of '79 reference to remember

Savage Not really my cup of tea but its the art that keeps me coming back to this or else I'm afraid it'd be another story to skip obver

Dead Eyes Looking forward to this ending so I can go back and read it in one chiunk

Ten Seconders Not sure whether its the story or art that just isn't thrilling me but another for a one off read when its all over

Dead Signal Really liking this tale from All & PJ and after Dredd is the only other must read in the present line up.

The strap pretty much sums up my feeling about 2000 AD at the moment. After a number of months of utterly sublime output, this feels like a real blip.

Cover: Dull. Some bloke falling wouldn't make me want to pick up the Prog.

Dredd: Great stuff, and the clear highlight of the Prog. Decent art and an amusing and very Dredd-like story from Rennie.

Savage: I've still no idea what the hell's going on. I liked the previous Savage books, but this is leaving me utterly cold.

Dead Eyes: Reminds me of Crisis (art) crossed with the kind of stuff going on in 2000 AD at that time. Still, it's Smith, so there's every chance (like Leatherjack) it'll read better in a single sitting. I'm not keen on the murky art though.

Ten Seconders: Meh. Switching artists every five minutes probably doesn't help, but this feels hollow and empty.

Dead Signal: The artwork again reminds me of the 'bad' period of 2000 AD (Wireheads, etc.), but it's OK and easy to follow. The story is pretty good, although it smacks of Life on Mars.

Overall: 2/5 from me. Here's looking forward to the next jump-on Prog.

Cover is OK but nothing on this classic :



Pretty good letters free Prog with Dredd and Savage leading the way with the other three offering various degrees of confusion. I went though 'Dead Eyes' and into 'The 10 seconders' without realising the strip had changed - pity I sussed too as it was staring to make sense!

Dredd is a lot of fun and I like the overt suggestion that the assassin lady pulled her pistol out of somewhere personal.

I've stopped reading Dead Eyes. It just isn't worth the effort.

Dead Signal has gone all Sam Tyler, but I'm expecting another twist. Life on Mars was a bit too mainstream to blatantly copy, so there's still some good reading to be had here. Liked the full page panels too. Nicely done.

10 Seconders is good, but very disjointed. I think the front cover is ace, so I'm not sure what you lot are complaining about.

Dredd is really good and funny. Rennie's best in a while.

Hey, they based the cover on what any sane reader's reaction to the strip would be!

Front cover- not bad, but I agree a bit lack lustre.


Dredd- great continuation.

"Dredd is a lot of fun and I like the overt suggestion that the assassin lady pulled her pistol out of somewhere personal."

Thank you. I was thinking... "Wait, didn't Dredd search them?" (Actually it was random searches so he wouldn't have caught everyone.) Then that though occurred to me... and I'm glad it wasn't just my dirty mind.

I didn't expect her being the hit-man(girl in her case) though. Good one. Not sure what that serial killer guy was quite on about "Remember me from class... etc.) I assume it's just his psychosis. Dredd's comeback was cool.

Interesting, I thought the creature was a son, nice twist. Thought it was some kind of mutant too, but all that fire seems rather demonic doesn't it?

Savage: Meh. Ok.

Dead Eyes: I'm actually following this ok. I like the twist that the 'lights' are not evil aliens as we first thought... and I like that they didn't go down the neanderthal=brute route. It really is ok, they need to give the art some clarity though (albeit it is good.)

10 Seconders- liking this too, although I agree it's somewhat disjointed. I can't remember why the guy is falling, but I'm sure I just forgot what happened in the previous episode.  I'm also a bit uncertain what the vampire was referring to when speaking to Root. Definitely warrants a reread.

Dead Signal: Great stuff! Notice the change in art between coma guy and Guile scenes? (Not Guile but I'm sure you know who I m mean...) Definitely Life On Mars spin.

I'd love it if the twist was that the coma stuff wasn't the real world... Also reminds me of an episode of Stargate (not that I'm particularly into that show, but this was an interesting episode) where T'yuk, (probably mis-spelt) wakes up as a fireman. There was an episode of Smallville like that too... seems a staple of sci-fi, so I hope they do something new with it.

Back cover. Same bird from last week if I remember correctly. ;)

From the other thread:

Huzzah! Saturday prog!

Dead Signal is a highlight for me. What a mindfuck. I can't predict what's going to happen next, and that's always a major recommendation.

I enjoyed the rest of the prog, including the cover. The artist on Ten Seconders is a better choice than the last one.

- Trout

It's all good.

The only strip I've now given up on is Dead Eyes, which is a dead loss as far as I'm concerned. I was trying to hang in there, but we now seem to be on the brink of that inevitable moment in a John Smith strip where some big deus-ex-machina god-type thing appears at the end and kills all the baddies - see Revere, LeatherJack or Firekind for exactly the same thing.

That makes me sound like a Smith basher, which I'm not - I just wish he wouldn't resort to the same old ending quite so often.

Justice! Blimey - that was the first American series I ever collected. I think there was one good story about a hold up in a fast-food diner, and then it went nuts and turned into something completely different and crap after about a dozen issues. I missed the wonderful mullet of his earlier incarnation.

M@

nothing wrong with a little deus ex machina

this post was brought to you by "the one tooth reader who loves john smiths work!" club

::"Life on Mars was a bit too mainstream to blatantly copy"

Yes, because Life on Mars is the first thing ever to feature world-shifting, perception-questioning, time-traveling or coma-fantasy plot points.

Uhm...

Don't get me wrong - I'm hating Dead Signal, mainly because it makes me feel like I'm back in 90s 2000AD land, but I don't think it's ripping off Life on Mars.  Reminds me of Kola Kommandos, for some reason.

nothing wrong with a little deus ex machina

this post was brought to you by "the one tooth reader who loves john smiths work!" club

I'm not sure it would really qualify as Deus ex machina anyway since the lights (whatever they're called) that the Neanderthals are using to control Sapien society was something there from the start of the story. Sure they're being used in a less subtle way but it amounts to the same thing: control.

If a mammoth dashed out of the otherworld into the henge and squashed the baddies flat... now that would be deus ex machina.

I first came across that term in the last books in Stephen King's Dark Tower cycle, but since then I've seen it used again, and again on the internet. Trouble is it's often used as a term for something unexpected, which isn't quite what it means (although Deus ex machinas are by their nature unexpected.)

For fuck's sake - it hasn't finished yet!  You see the ending in your crystal ball then?

Quite a stupid and lazy assumption there, no?

That reply to Dark "the Dick" Jimbo, natch!

Yes, because Life on Mars is the first thing ever to feature world-shifting, perception-questioning, time-traveling or coma-fantasy plot points.

Uhm...

Fair enough, but it was the most recent (especially in the mainstream) and does have a similar vibe at the moment. Plus I wasn't the only one that made the connection.

But I loved Life on Mars and I'm enjoying Dead Signal.

Stupid, lazy and a dick for hoping for a better ending than the one he's expecting?

Harsh.

It's funny cause it's not me!

Um. Well. Didn't expect that, and, quite frankly, don't think I deserved it.

I did try to point out that I wasn't making sweeping assumptions - 'we seem to be' rather than something like 'Oh god, fucking John Smith, here we go', because, well, it did honestly seem like it based on this part's ending.

Still jumping the gun a bit, admittedly, but at the end of the day that's the nature of trying to review successive episodes of a weekly serialized story; it's always going to involve a certain amount of guesswork and there's always going to be a far greater amount of in-depth analysis than each individual part warrants. You'd think you, of all people, would know how it works, given you write for the comic in question?

And hey, guess what? I can't take the series as a whole, because as you said, it hasn't finished yet. All I can do is make best guesses as to where it's going based on the parts already published. If I really had a bloody crystal ball I wouldn't have to, would I?
These prog review threads would be just a little bit redundant if we weren't allowed to comment on stories mid-flow, after all...

I even tried to make it clear that I'm not one of those guys who hates all John Smith work out of hand, it was just that I didn't like the turn this was taking - because I hate posters who mindlessly slag off something that, at the end of the day, the creators have put a lot of work into. If I'd known you were going to resort to name-calling I wouldn't bloody have bothered.

Dick.

++and, quite frankly, don't think I deserved it.++

Seconded. Dark J even pre-empted all this with a 'I'm not a Smith-basher' and makes a good point about previous endings on three named series.  

Anyway...

Cover: Reminds me of Jock's work on The Losers.

Nerve Centre: Red Seas Trailer looks god, sorry good and Damage report has me wondering...


JD: Great stuff careering alone nice, what kind of electro-mutie is that blue one?

Savage: Enjoying Mrs Mills laddies touch on this one, the manipulation/spin of the attack is how I imagine the Volgs would keep the Yanks out of the war and having them sing a John Lennon song would fit in with current post-Diana thinking. On the art though is Steakknife supposed to look like Bill's twin?

Dead Eyes: picking up but still has that Crisis feel to it, not a bad thing in its self, but the art is still too muddy for these old eyes of mine.

Ten Seconders: enjoying this a lot more after reading a catch up on another thread here.

Dead Signal: Nice to see some panel busting /full page images can't see where this is going, can't be a simple LoM re-tread from AL so it must be going somewhere good right?

Over all a fine Prog on my account: 7/10
 

Don't pay any attention to the amateur, online critics, would be my advice.

For any given story, you can always find detractors and fans, often in equal measure. It's very rare that you'll find a story that everyone agrees on, either way.

Well, apart from Chronos Carnival.

Thanks for the edumacation, Mardredd - I always thought that Deus ex machina meant "the ghost in the machine", but you prompted me to look it up on Wikipedia (font of all probably knowledge) to find that it's actually "a god on a machine".

And, of course, the meaning, as you stated, although it commonly gets misused all over the place.

[crankatta crankatta crankatta]
A god: "I'll save you!"
[fraZZZZZammm]

m. Well. Didn't expect that, and, quite frankly, don't think I deserved it.

I did try to point out that I wasn't making sweeping assumptions - 'we seem to be' rather than something like 'Oh god, fucking John Smith, here we go', because, well, it did honestly seem like it based on this part's ending.

Still jumping the gun a bit, admittedly, but at the end of the day that's the nature of trying to review successive episodes of a weekly serialized story; it's always going to involve a certain amount of guesswork and there's always going to be a far greater amount of in-depth analysis than each individual part warrants. You'd think you, of all people, would know how it works, given you write for the comic in question?

And hey, guess what? I can't take the series as a whole, because as you said, it hasn't finished yet. All I can do is make best guesses as to where it's going based on the parts already published. If I really had a bloody crystal ball I wouldn't have to, would I?
These prog review threads would be just a little bit redundant if we weren't allowed to comment on stories mid-flow, after all...

I even tried to make it clear that I'm not one of those guys who hates all John Smith work out of hand, it was just that I didn't like the turn this was taking - because I hate posters who mindlessly slag off something that, at the end of the day, the creators have put a lot of work into. If I'd known you were going to resort to name-calling I wouldn't bloody have bothered.

Dick.



Baby!

You said: "That makes me sound like a Smith basher, which I'm not - I just wish he wouldn't resort to the same old ending quite so often."

There.  In your own words!  Now eat 'em!
(Coz you don't know it's gonna have "the same old ending", do you?)

Well as he pointed out, there is form in that department! He also didn't say that it would end the same, he said it was heading in that direction.

While I can understand you wanting to defend your work, which some people really enjoy, I'm not sure if you're actually being successful. To be honest, you're coming over a little John Byrne.

Thanks Andy, that's pretty much what I was going to say (and thanks also Huff and Eyebrows.) And I think you'll find, John, that I also said:

All I can do is make best guesses as to where it's going based on the parts already published.

I've always quite enjoyed your stories, but you've been coming across here as a bit of a twat. You could have just come on and said 'If that's what you think's going to happen, Jimbo, I suggest you wait and see. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised...'

'Fair enough,' I'd have said, 'I stand corrected.'

Why the abuse I don't quite know.

Don't be sensitive Jimbo, you know you love it!

It would be ironic if a bigger, better John Smith rode in and saw off the petty potty-mouthed one at the last moment!

Frankly if I was a creator (and we all pray that one day it comes to pass) I'd enjoy nothing more that a bunch of fans picking nits at my published opus.

Unless they said all the endings were the same then all bets are off! I'm not really qualified to comment (gasp!) on the endings debate as I rarely make it to the end of John's masterworks. That's no critisism on you John (ducks) but when thinks get too far 'out there' I tend to lose interest and get into something more grounded in reality instead.

>He also didn't say that it would end the same, he said it was heading in that direction

As far as I understand it, a serialized story can't appear to "head" towards a deus ex machina ending. Deus ex machina has to be something dragged into a story totally unexpectedly, ie. no groundwork laid for it whatsoever, to force a desired ending: hence "god from a machine" because actors playing 'god' were (apparently) winched down from above the stage to tie up Greek tragedies. It doesn't just mean anything that employs gods or supernatural forces though. It's better illustarted by the Simpsons 'Lord of the Flies' pastiche where right at the end a smug voice over says "And then the children were all rescued by oh... let's say... Moe."

If, in the last episode of Dead Eyes, Indigo Prime decide to interfere that will be deus ex machina.

I don't think Revere really counts since the whole strip was about him going though a kind of psychic proving ground to attain this kind of higher state of control. Firekind, maybe.

It doesn't just mean anything that employs gods or supernatural forces though.

Yeah, it admittedly wasn't quite the phrase I was groping for originally. I just meant dues ex machina in the sense of a story event that doesn't particularly need or attempt any explanation but neverthless miraculosly solves everything that's going on. I'm not quite sure what you would call that, but I think everyone knew what I meant. Not that there's anything wrong with it, mind.

::"you're coming over a little John Byrne"

Heaven forfend!

I just meant deus ex machina in the sense of a story event that doesn't particularly need or attempt any explanation but nevertheless miraculously solves everything that's going on

But that is deus ex machina. The thing is, Dead Eyes had all along been setting up this kind of secret magic earth-power stuff so it is natural and story-organic to now expect some kind of Raiders/Akira-type conflagration out of the henge that ushers in (probably) some kind of transcendent new world order. Unless I'm wrong, of course, and the soldier guy has actually been dead all along, or is in a VR prison.

But that is deus ex machina.

My head hurts!!! :-)

Link: Ok, look

Baby!

You said: "That makes me sound like a Smith basher, which I'm not - I just wish he wouldn't resort to the same old ending quite so often."

There. In your own words! Now eat 'em!
(Coz you don't know it's gonna have "the same old ending", do you?)

I think you'll find, if you check again, that you've taken that quote out of context.

when things get too far 'out there' I tend to lose interest and get into something more grounded in reality instead

Um, why do you read 2000ad then? (Insert smiley wink thing if this seems brusque)

Bruskeness noted and deflected by my teflon coat of not being offended at anythingness. Except cheap shots at my art - at least I tried!

I started  reading 2000ad way back when, when an 'out there' story was a Walter the Wobot one pager. Nowadays with a maturing readership more of the stories are of a 'challenging' nature and take a lot more concentration to comprehend.

Sometimes when I do comprehend them I later realise that I did no such thing and had completely missed the point. I don't mind these stories but they are not my favourites and not the kind that drew me to the comic in the first place.

I find that if a story needs a book of annotations as least as long as its own length and requires an extensive knowledge of olde worlde folklore it's not going to be worth the effort.

P.S. I'm not thick and got an 'A' for my Higher English and indeed won the school English prize. The course books were however not on altered realites or even VR prisons.

Fair enough. For I what it's worth I only got into 2000ad about two years ago (Prog 1487) - I liked the artwork on Lobster Random. (I'd been toying with the idea of buying into it for a few weeks).

King Kong was out in the cinema so I was into dinosaurs again, and I was reading a book called 'Freaks' about 'beastmen' and conjoined twins and stuff, and lo and behold that Lobster Random installment had a guy with a Tyrannosaurus Rex for a conjoined twin, so it felt kind of like fate.

Before that I used to read Fortean Times a lot (then stopping for long periods because they never seem to 'find' anything) and was into (but not very well versed in) anime. I saw Akira aged 11, and ever since wanted everything to more or less be like that. For some reason that year I just started thinking about how I liked "2000ad stuff" in terms of clothes and films and whatever. Shaun of the Dead and Hardware probably had something to do with it as well.

I only got a B for A-level English Lit (didn't really bother), and dropped out of a Media Studies/Drama combined degree at Northampton and later a 'Performance Writing' degree at Dartington. So I'm not in a position to make out that anyone is 'thick'. (Smiling thing)

If you like Hardware, you should check out the old 2000AD story that it blatantly ripped off - Shok! - which you can read in full via the link.

Link: Shok!

Thanks, I've already seen it. Done a lot of catching up thanks to Case Files, Extreme Editions and graphic novels - even got some Crisis issues from eBay and some Time Twisters, and TPBs of New Statesmen and True Faith.

One of my mates used to run a comics shop - long before I knew him - and told me what he thought was good. Actually he told me that most of 2000ad was shit and I shouldn't bother with it, but I just ignored him.

New Statesmen was ace. They should bring that back.

I always thought deus ex machina meant "God in a box" and referred to something with no dramatic purpose other than to save the hero. In retrospect, teh ex obviously means "out of" or "from."

Tharg's Top Tips:  Instead of putting all the effort into creating comic strips which draw admiration and respect from your audience, try calling them dicks, or moan on about how they don't fully appreciate your genius.  It requires less effort, but with any luck, your critics will soon shut the fuck up and let you get on with being fucking amazing.  Zarjaz!

Haha!  If only that were true!

Well what a storm in a tea cup THIS is - serves me right for putting my head above the parapet on this fucking forum...

By the way, Dark Jimbo - is "dick" worse than "twat"?  Will have to check out the BBC swear-word guidelines on that one!

The thing is - and it's entirely about semantics, I know - that I still feel my interpretation of D.J.'s "offending" post remains the same.  Re-read it.  He's given up on reading it (snidey aside: I'll bet he reads it NOW!  So who wins that one?!?) because it's a "dead loss" with an "inevitable" ending, compared to blah-blah-blah...

So far, so speculation.

But then:  "I just wish he wouldn't resort to the same old ending quite so often."  Fait accompli.  As if you KNOW that THAT is how it IS going to end up...

Don't you see the logical non sequiteur in that?  Or is it just me (obviously yes, to your virt-mates on here!)?  You're conflating your opinion - all fair enough, otherwise I could spend all my time on here trying to justify myself to naysayers (which would be even more pathetic than I sound right now) - with a blank statement of fact.  As if that's how this story IS going to end.

Now, really thinking about this and re-reading Jimbo's post, yeah, you could interpret it from both points of view, but since I'm me and he's he (she's she?), guess which POV I took when I read that post?  Jimbo's tarred this story with the same brush as previous ones - and already made his mind up.  Like I say, he may or may not be right.  It's just an attitude that really bugs me and - obviously! - pisses me off.  Presume and assume, fair enough; I do it myself all the time.  (Not just comics but "Heroes", "BSG", "Lost", "Dexter" - shit, "Coronation Street" when the inlaw's around!) And it's great fun!  But to state something as fact before you know it to be so is incredibly galling and, erm, unscientific, and, ah, err, illogical?

Anyway - I'm getting increasingly pissed on an aeromalleate alcohol fluid which, combined with certain narco-cannibanic vapours, is rendering my attention on this spatio-temporal event as worryingly juvenile and/or over-sensitive, so a cheery technoburble to all of yez!

>Burp!<

Just puzzle on this poser:

Who criticises the critics?

Eh?  Eh?

>+++Now should I click on that bloody "Post Message" button or not?+++<

Forget it John, it's MessageboardTown.

Well, you could as the writer take offence against Jimbos comments, and you could certainly read it that Jimbo has pre-judged the ending (albeit based on his own past experience as explained in that initial post).  Not really thought crime of the century though is it - as he says, he's someone who enjoys your writing, but doesn't like one aspect he's seen repeated in previous stories, and sees signs of being repeated here.  

Calling someone a dick for that seems more than an over reaction - name calling will get you nowhere, young man.

Yeah, it's messageboard Town, where people put their opinions, ill informed or not - Writers can come along and play Sheriff if they like, but wouldn't it be better to let the strip do the talking in a few weeks time, or at least make your point without the vitriol?  

Yes Art, it's people with opinions you don't want to hear.  The difference between messageboard town and the other readers (the silent majority), is that you don't know what they think, so you can have all the fantasies you want about how people regard your work.

If writers an artists want to changes someone's mind, it's going to have to be through their work.  By creating better comics or comics that appeal more to the audience, and with an audience of 30000, you're going to have to accept you won't please all of them all of the time.

Sadly Art, all this Messageboard Town stuff is sour grapes, and too many people working on 2000AD indulge in it.

And sorry John, that's just not my argument, but good luck with it.  Hope you don't have a hangover this morning, and look forward to see your next strip.  

Title of thread: "Falling From Grace".

Somebody call Alanis.

Obtuse, or just really thick?  Let the audience decide!

This has turned out a lot more interesting than the usual review thread.

But that's how we do things here in Messageboard Town...

Wow. Just picked up on this thread and Jimbo has certainly  hit a nerve here, it really makes me wonder how many creators read this forum and don't comment on 'attacks' on their work?

Personally I'm still sitting on the fence when it comes to Dead Eyes. I've always found John's work difficult to take in all in one sitting, and it's better to re-read all in one go after the series has finished, only then do you pick up on the subtle nuances, nudges and delivery. I've had a few issues with this story, especially the peadophile comment at the beginning but otherwise I've enjoyed the story telling and the art especially.

I don't think it was very nice of you John to attack Jimbo in the way that you did. He did not refer to you personally, but made a reference to your work and expectations based on previous projects you have worked on. In return you attacked him personally which is below the belt. For someone who has a lot of respect from the people, including myself, on this board you've not done yourself any favours by your posts here. I just think it's sad the way that you responded. A writer of your cailber, experience and creativity (one I might add who always stretches the boundaries when it comes to writing for 2000AD) should be able to respond in a constructive, understanding and intelligent way. Instead we have a rambling diatribe that makes me want to believe you are not who you say you are.

Alrighty then....getting back to the prog...

I havent been enjoying it for afew weeks now, namely because I havent been 'digging' Savage, Dead Eyes and Ten Seconders, and that was annoying me. So I dug out the last few weeks worth of progs last night and read through all 3 of these stories from parts 1 to the most recent issue - and what a difference it makes to all 3 stories when read in a lump like this. Its unfortunate that all 3 of them suffer from the weekly installment syndrome, and unfortunate that all 3 are running at the same time, as it means reading the prog requires enormous work and concentration, and obviously constant referring back to previous issues. For example, in Dead Eyes, I didnt know who the hell that Kellet character was when he appeared at the Chthonia site, but upon the re-read I noticed he was the guy in the beginning who stumbled across Redman after the car bomb. Ah! Similarly in Savage, I didnt realise that Steak Knife was the same guy who they actually nearly caught in that B&B in the beginning - because so many weeks had passed. And Ten Seconders benefited enormously from Dark Jimbos synopsis a few weeks ago and the few eps I read on Clickwheel- reading that again I now knew who the Scientist was, who Harris was and why he was in that condition, what the disc was all about, who the glowy flying girl with the Scientist is, etc, etc, etc.
After the hour or two spent on this catch up last night I now find that all 3 strips are actually quite good and Im looking forward to the next prog a lot more than I was before (Dredd and Dead Signal Ive been enjoying all along as they are easier to follow and stick with).
I still think the art on Dead Eyes was a serious misstep though.  Im not sure if its Lee Carters original work or the way its been reproduced, but it is just far too dead and murky and works to put people off reading it rather than dragging them in. Dont get me wrong, the detail is incredible and hes a fantastic artist, but the great work and detail has been damaged by the colours being so murky and dark. Maybe its the reproduction and printing though, as the same can be said of Clint Langleys (brilliant) work on ABC Warriors - that can be far too dark at times as well.

Anyway.
Its all good again now.

"Just puzzle on this poser:

Who criticises the critics?

Eh? Eh? "

If its in letter form that'll be Buttonman.

Right, one last response and then I'm going to step away from this thread for good because it's getting noone anywhere, least of all me or John.

-I've been trying to like the strip, but don't, one reason being the way I see it heading.

-Obviously I don't know what's actually going to happen, so I was making a best guess; which, really, is what these threads are about - rambling, ill-informed fan opinion and speculation.

-You could have just come on and politely corrected me and I'd have happily taken back what I said. Even after your first post I'd have thought perhaps I was being a bit harsh and apoligised, but then you went and posted the needless 'dick' remark.

-I think I'm going to pretend you're just some nut on the internet using John Smith as an alias, or reading your future stories is going to leave a bad taste in my mouth after all this.

-The funniest thing is that my remark should have been picked up for criticism when it's one of the milder reviews Dead Eyes has recieved!

Link: To take one at random...

That's pretty tame, actually.  Try this:

Dead Eyes
Ep. 1: Iraq, squaddies, banter, explosions, toxic gas, secret agents, drugs. Wow!
Ep. 2: Blether, hystrionics, blether, lights. Eh?
Ep. 3: Basil in a car, Basil on a phone, Basil at a cashpoint.  Oh look - some paint drying!
Ep. 4: Basil buying a car and chatting. Did that grass just grow a bit?
Ep. 5: Basil goes for a pint. Maybe I should cut my toenails.
Ep. 6: Basil goes camping.  Fuck me - a caveman!  That's exciting.  Yes, I'll join Scientology!
Ep. 7: Basil goes underground with Stig. Some dialogue from X-Files reject scripts is thrown in.
Ep. 8: Basil goes further underground with Stig.  At least there's some shagging.
Ep. 9: Orgy of death!  Rattatattarattatat!  Fuck me!  Wow!
Ep. 10: The world God will awaken and destroy the government / evil hu-mans.  Basil and his chum will survive and get to shag randy neandertha-babes for the rest of eternity.  Obviously.

Now now boys! Stop this at once!!

Remember- it's only fucking comics after all!

"It's only University Challenge, Rik!"

Achtung!

Enjoying Dredd - I didn't realise the orange jaggy cloud was actually the shape of the monster - I thought it was artistic license.  

The mutant gang don't seem particularly Dredd like though - like they've wandered in from some slightly madder SF story (little computer circuit looking things, monkeys in space suits).

But great stuff none the less.


I liked the way DEAD SIGNAL used the full page panels to show reality (or is it?).  Still enjoying this.


As for the other stories, they have lost me of late so maybe I'll do the old reread in one go trick.    

But hang on, isn't this a weekly anthology comic? Shouldn't the story be structured in such a way that I can easily remember what has gone before without having to cross reference back?


As for the other stuff on the thread, you canignore everything below (or above for that matter) if you want:

It's hard being a creator and being critiqued (and this is different from being attacked) but these are, after all, only opinions and we are entitled to not only have them but to air them on a public forum designed for, I dunno, discussing comics.  

If you are writing the stuff you want to write, then whatever people opine shouldn't matter to you.

And I speak from the position of being a "creator" who has been both critiqued and, actually physically attacked (but then, the audience did want the strippers to come back on stage.)

Not a lot of fans of Polanski or Nicholson here, I take it.

Or Robert Towne, apparently.

Ah, forget him, he's...

::"Not a lot of fans of Polanski or Nicholson here, I take it."

You need a plaster for the nose of your icon.

Heh.I like Dead Eyes. Its not the best thing in the prog(Dredd), but its certainly not the worst ( Dead Signal and Ten seconders are both really really weak,the former saved somewhat by some niiice artwork, IMO). Each to his own, eh?

You know what? This week's was the best single issue since '...Regrets' ended. Largely because Savage is going somewhere and Dead Eyes finally started to get interesing, even if the dialogue isn't very natural/good.

'Psilocybin/sex ritual'. How very eighties! Is there much diarrhoea and paranoia to go with that, or are Neanderthals fortunately immune to unwanted side effects of magic mushrooms?

"aeromalleate alcohol fluid which, narco-cannabinic vapours, spatio-temporal event"

Cor! I feel privileged at this rare glimpse of the creative process unfolding almost in real time.

Who criticises the critics?

Er... 2000ad artists and writers usually, often in the pages of the Megazine.

So, Prog 1585... Better than Prog 1584, possibly. Judge Dredd gets better the higher the body count. Pretty soon there'll be no-one left for Dredd to arrest, which is comedy enough.

Savage was good because there wasn't an excess of crap and nonsensical verbiage in it. I don't know who these Australians are that Savage is having a dig at. Is puking tequila a popular Australian passtime? I liked the bit where the airship exploded, but I don't know if that's a good thing or not. If it doesn't crash onto the steps of St. Paul's I can't see the problem.

Dead Eyes gets better, even though I still don't understand why anyone would want to machine gun Neanderthals when there's potentially a lot more to gain by building bridges. Where it succeeds for me is the mood it creates and the sympathy I feel, as a reader, toward the Neanderthals. I'm starting to feel quite connected to them emotionally if not intellectually. I don't want to see unarmed pacificists gunned down when they have been established as sympathetic characters. That's guaranteed to tug at the heart strings.

You can gun them down plenty if they've been established as whingeing New Agers and spoilt rich kids, natch.

Ten Seconders - Lestat chats to Swamp Thing. I've no idea why. At least it's an easier read than Dead Signal.

I haven't read Dead Signal yet. My train ride was nearing its end and I didn't feel I had enough effort left in my weary body to turn the pages. Perhaps a big dose of ritalin might help me to get through it in one sitting.

Weird connections dept: got my copy today and it turns out that on Saturday I was actually sitting in the torture chair Savage is using. Apparently (although I didn't spot it until now) his pub is the Cross Kings, where Poptimism meets monthly for dance and DJ activity and where you can hear many of the songs that Tempest quotes while killing people. Presumably in Another Britain, Another 2008 the night is called VOLGIMISM and Savage does not allow it on his manor so we must get together in The Dog And Collaborator in Soho.

Ten Seconders - Lestat chats to Swamp Thing. I've no idea why. At least it's an easier read than Dead Signal.

I noticed that the face of Root was very similar, if not identical, to that of Arachne. You know that whole lipless skull thing with the prominent teeth.

I liked the design of Arachne, but it would have been nice for a bit more variance in design when Root was concerned. A bit less toothy and more crinkly, bark-like maybe (not to the extent of being an Ent though.. the powerful humanoid look is fine.)

Now they have introduced these vampire character, I hope they give some explanation as to how they came about. I.e. are they hybrid type creatures like 'the disciples' from the first arc?  Are they actual vampires in the mystical sense, or mutants of some kind akin to Durham Red?  Have they been experimenting on themselves, or are they just a bunch of freaky humans who took to paling their skin and drinking blood?

Hmm, the world of anthology comics.

I'd by lying if I said Dead Eyes was my favourite John Smith strip, or that it doesn't include many familiar John Smith tropes and tells, but I'm really enjoying it - I like

Italicsoff?

Jimbo: need or attempt any explanation but neverthless miraculosly solves everything that's going on. I'm not quite sure what you would call that:
My old man refers to it as 'With one mighty bound he was free'
with is how the Saturday morning heroes escaped the previous week's cliffhanger apparently. Course it could be argued that what you describe is a classic twist in the tale/tail.

 

"I liked the bit where the airship exploded, but I don't know if that's a good thing or not. If it doesn't crash onto the steps of St. Paul's I can't see the problem."

Well, as I think General Scarface said t'other week, the dirty Volgs had made something like 200 Londoners effectively 'responsibile' for the blimp (in order to discourage terrorist attacks), so in the case of its destruction, they'd be executed on the spot.

"I still don't understand why anyone would want to machine gun Neanderthals when there's potentially a lot more to gain by building bridges."

Well, if I understand correctly, the soldier ordering the machine gunning was actually still rather bitter over his previous encounter with said Neanderthal wallahs, and was out for personal revenge, therefore ignoring the direct orders of his political masters (whose immediate aims, beyond the whole energy issue, seem to be somewhat obtuse at this stage).

"The Dog And Collaborator in Soho"

S'on Greek Street, isn't it? Just the other side of the road from The Slaughtered Nun?

"the dirty Volgs had made something like 200 Londoners effectively 'responsibile' for the blimp so in the case of its destruction, they'd be executed on the spot."

And the Americans are cool with that? Flippin' 'eck. And I thought we and they were mates. Suddenly you know who your friends are when the chips are down, eh?

"Well, if I understand correctly, the soldier ordering the machine gunning was actually still rather bitter over his previous encounter with said Neanderthal wallahs."

Au contraire! On page 1, Sergeant Kellet is stunned and 'away with the fairies'. The Kill-team's orders therefore come straight from The Rookery, i.e. Lord Wynter, whichever one he is: 'full shoot-'em-up mode'. Sergeant Kellet is, at that point, still down.

"the dirty Volgs had made something like 200 Londoners effectively 'responsibile' for the blimp so in the case of its destruction, they'd be executed on the spot."

Weren't they actually stationed on the blimp as a human shield?

Just to add fuel to the fire, the last series of Stickleback had a Deus ex machina ending to the max and you all creamed over that.

I have to force myself to read the prog at the moment.

Highlights were Dredd, cracking art & script.

The page of Dead Signal with the guy in the wheelchair. If I didnt know who drew this I would have guessed Steve Parkhouse. Lovely stuff.

All the rest, Meh.

"Weren't they actually stationed on the blimp as a human shield?"

Cripes! I missed that. I think maybe 2000ad strips demand too much commitment from their readers these days. When I first started picking it up almost 30 years ago, you were very much there in the moment; but now nothing much makes sense unless you a) remember what happened last time and b) care what happened last time.

"you all creamed over that"

What all of us? Have you personally checked?

Whether you like "Dead Eyes" or not, nothing will get over the fact that a scene showing a load of neanderthals humping one another is plain horrid.

Urgh. As, indeed, they may say.

M@

"I have to force myself to read the prog at the moment. "

I know what you mean, but I can't even be bothered to do that! Dredd and Dead Signal and that's it.

It's not even that Savage, Dead Eyes and Ten Seconders are particularly bad, as far as I can tell, I just don't fucking care to the point where it's worth my time reading them.

Cheers

Jim

I tend to read it all even if I don't like the stories. I just don't feel like I'm getting my money's worth otherwise.

That being said, I don't dislike any of the stories in the current run, although I don't like the prog as much as the previous set of stories we had (I.e. with Stickleback and Kingdom.)

That's the nature of anthologies though init?

Pardon me while I state the obvious...

I really like Dead Eyes!

I really like Dead Eyes!

Dammit! Now why didn't I think to say that?

;-)

"Weren't they actually stationed on the blimp as a human shield?"

Cripes! I missed that.



That's because I appear to have made it up. Sorree.

Dear diary, I'm worried about Jim he's right off his comics


Mrs Dale

Only got the prog today, so I'm just going to say that this week's episode of Ten Seconders was really bad, and I was driven to a murderous rage within one panel. Worst story of the year, and possibly the decade.

Gotta say, I'm still enjoying Savage. Slight dip in quality, but still holding my interest. Dead signal is good too, with more great art from PJ.

The rest of the prog though... meh.

Just got around to reading this (online through Click Wheel)

Overall opinion is I'm still digging the lineup, not as much as the beginning of the year but its still fairly strong.

Breaking it down..

JUDGE DREDD: I'm liking this, though it probably didn't need to run 4+ parts.

SAVAGE: I enjoy Savage as a rule. But this story has been a bit of a mess, I think it will read better in one sitting. But after the last series, its taken a dip in writing quality. The art is cracking however.

Dead Eyes: John Smith mindfuckery AHOY. Its a little hard to really get into though. The art is pretty amazing IMO. Some of the best in painted comic art I've come across.

The Ten Seconders: Now this series is just utterly and completely a mess. I liked American Dream quite a bit, it had a strong narrative and told a good story. But this series, between the mud art and sloppy layout I just don't know what the hell is going on any more, beyond "Brit boys lost in Crazy Super-Hero post-apoc America. Also there are Vampires for some reason". The art has improved a great deal with Ben Oliver, but its too little, too late. Good God, 9 episodes in and I can't even recall the names of ALL the important characters.

Dead Signal: Now this, this is pretty much balls-to-the-wall awesome sauce. This is the kind of thing I read 2000AD for. I smell a modern classic in the making here. I wonder if it'll have an open ending for follow ups or if it will be self contained. Kingdom needs a buddy series, ala Sin-Dex/Dante, and this one looks like its got legs.

Anyway, the Red Seas "Thrill of the Future" has got me all a twitter too.

::"a load of neanderthals humping one another is plain horrid"

Prude?

Just unfocus a bit and you don't have to look at their faces. Works for me. *huuurnnngh*!

(could do with more dogs though, I reckon)

Woof woof!

(Pardon me, I was watching an episode of Blackadder with Lord Flasheart recently.)