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Author Topic: Daredevil fans in the house?  (Read 27562 times)

Colin YNWA

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Re: Daredevil fans in the house?
« Reply #120 on: 21 March, 2016, 04:08:26 PM »
Alas to my knowledge very little is out in trade. There is the 'Lone Stranger' collection which weirdly straddles this section of the run (as I see it) reprinting 265 - 273. So if that's correct (its as listed on Amazon I don't own it) it includes the last of the Inferno cross-over and then the leaving New York and Brandy / The Farm / Shotgun stuff but will leave some pretty major threads dangling without the Ultron tidy up.

It would also seem the Epic Collection will fill the gaps but that's gonna take years . They have done a Typhiod Mary collection which covers 253 - 270, but heavens knows when they'll get back to more Nocenti stuff as they seem to come out every 6 months or so and cover the entire original series. Since DD has so many gaps in this reprinted history (pretty much everything aside the Miller stuff) they have a lot to get through!

Yeah 277 is a beaut. For me though it doesn't top 266, Beer with the Devil, which of all this run - which I was finding pretty mind blowing as a mid to late teenager - was the issue that really made me stand up and realise quite what an 'American'* comic could be!

I didn't see Animal Man, this runs contemporary, as a 'real' American comic as it was by Grant Morrison and in my head then 2000ad in the wrong format!

Colin YNWA

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Re: Daredevil fans in the house?
« Reply #121 on: 21 March, 2016, 09:44:49 PM »
Well I've read Daredevil in Hell tonight (issues 278 - 282) and its as good as I remember, it really is something utterly different*, you could never say refreshing, but maybe invigourating is a better word. It feels such a natural progression for the run to date and has so many echos of whats gone before. Now Blackheart is trapped trying to impotently escape the influence if his father, or so it seems. Daredevil has to revisit the runs early theme of the violence in his life that so frightened Karen and was, at first justified. Everyone tries to find who they are and what defines them as people.

The glory here is how Nocenti and co twist these echos to make them fresh. The son defies his father, having observed humankind to trap them in Mephisto's idea of evil he learns and grows from them and becomes a changed evil Nocenti has observed. Mephisto is in fact impotent to resist this and while he still slumbers large and immovible the new will forever torment him. Daredevil of course finds that his real strenght doesn't come from his fists but the hope he represents. All our characters discover that the endless climb to perfection isn't human, or indeed inhuman, rather they must accept and embrace their own flaws and still do what's right... or the best they can. Or discover that they can't find themselves, or understand their perfection in the light of others, but rather have to search for it themselves.

Its all wonderful, wonderful stuff and each time I return to it I get something else. Just brilliant. I love the way Nocenti ensures there's a price to pay and ashs to ashs holds true but she sends a cosmic angel into the eternal battle to ensure that balance is maintained and the devil (the other one not the Dare one) pays his due.

Its been suggested that Daredevil has of course been in Hell since the Inferno storyline and that could certainly be said to hold on a full re-read. I however prefer the more literal reading, that while he was in a hell of his own making prior to this he had to be cast to a deeper hell to escape his own 9 levels. Either way the journey is just exquisite in its torture.

Alas with this we lose John Romita Jr after what is surely the greatest work he will ever do. BUT Al Williamson remains and Lee Weeks joins for Nocenti's final arc... so all is good in the world of Matt Murduck... well except of course the world of Matt Murdock is at its best when he's in...

*Well it would be in any other run by Marvel or DC, here its right at home.

Greg M.

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Re: Daredevil fans in the house?
« Reply #122 on: 23 March, 2016, 03:37:45 PM »
One of my favourite bits of Daredevil in Hell is the use of the Silver Surfer. When you're well-immersed in comics lore, you forget how ridiculous the shiny man on the space-plank seems to others, but his guest appearance in this arc is one of his very best. You really get a sense of him as less a person, more a kind of cosmic force, and his clash with Mephisto gives you a sense of what it might be like to be a hapless mortal caught betwixt warring titans. I love the way Romita Jr draws him, with the power cosmic flowing free.

Colin YNWA

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Re: Daredevil fans in the house?
« Reply #123 on: 27 March, 2016, 08:12:23 AM »
So the Daredevils been to hell and John Romita Jr has gone, what could be left, surely things can't continue to the standard they've maintained this far.Well in wrapping up her run, joined largely by Lee Weeks, Nocenti sends Matt back to New York at last and frankly almost saves the best for last. After a quite wonderful fill in 283  (let down a little by the art), which tackles America's identity rather than the characters, we get an absolutely fantastic final arc in issues 284 - 290.

The events of Nocenti's epic run really hit home, having put Matt through so much, on returning him to his home she completely pulls him part, the toll of the turmur he's been through finally completely stripping him of who he is and Daredevil literally loses his mind and memories. Luckly for us the reader, if not Matt and New York, Bullseye is on hand to pick up the pieces and take over the role of Daredevil as Matt Murdock explores his past to try to determine who he is and what that means. Behind all this the Kingpin of course plots and continues this endless hunt for our heroes final downfall, again taking aim at the man's soul rather than the body.

As with previous stories in this glorious run Nocenti returns to fimilar themes. In switching roles both Bullseye and Daredevil explore what it is that makes them who they are, identity is central to this arc, as it is almost all that has gone before. Matt Murduck (using the identity of Jack Murdock) hunts unwittingly through his past, while Bullseye realises that being Daredevil, even to tarnish his image is a damned sight more complex that it appears. She (Nocenti) also explores the complexity of good and evil, making clear that few people are simply good or evil, but that angels have horns and devils have wings. It all ends in a typically, but beautifully realised showdown. Its glorious stuff, particularly the episodes drawn by Lee Weeks.

So all that is left is a supreme summary of her time with Daredevil in issue 291, and not only one of Daredevils best runs, in fact probably its best (well wait until I reread Mark Waid's run!) but one of mainstream comics best ever concludes. Nocenti's run is an absolute truimph as its so unashamedly a traditional suoerhero comic, but uses that platform to explore complex ideas and themes in a way rarely (if ever) done up to that point, and not often, if ever, bettered since. She's shows a real courage in stretching both Daredevil and mainstream superhero comics to their absolute limit, throwing ideas with conviction and imagination but always, always remembering what she's doing. Its a writer showing either masterful confidence, or a carefree attitude, probably both, either way its an absolute success. Nocenti has a little luck in that for almost the entire time on the comic she's joined by brilliant artists, Al Willimason's sublime inks creating a uniformity for the last 40 issues or so.

If you've not read this run and think Frank Miller defines Daredevil, read this and think again and marvel at the way Ann Nocenti uses some of the most powerful storytelling to truly explore Matt Murduck's identity, that of the city he loves, the psychology of heroes and villians and the people they affect and those that watch and those that manipulate. Ann Nocenti really does define Daredevil, taking over from one of the most heralded runs in any comic (Frank Miller's Born Again) she showed she was the writer without fear.

Colin YNWA

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Re: Daredevil fans in the house?
« Reply #124 on: 29 October, 2017, 07:41:30 AM »
Its been a while since I pester you lot with my Daredevil fetish but I'm just starting a re-read of Ed Brubaker's, largely with Michael Lark, first time since these first came out I think?

Anyway we start were Bendis left us with Matt locked up for the crime of being Daredevil and the folks in prison lining up to work over (in various ways) the man who put most of them there. Brubaker of coures looks like the perfect DD writer and he shows why here. Okay you can't look too closely at the plot, I mean would this happen, would they really do that... mind since this is a Marvel Superhero comic even if it is DD that should be a given... but its truly gripping stuff. Expertly timed, thrilling ploted (see above if a bit silly) and compelling.

Michael Larks gritty art perfect for the grim tone the tales tells and overall this is a good a start to this run as I remember it being. Of course its not Nocenti good (see below) but its certainly as good as the Bendis stuff.

Colin YNWA

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Re: Daredevil fans in the house?
« Reply #125 on: 13 November, 2017, 09:12:40 PM »
So the second half of Brubaker's epic first storyline with DD out of prison and chasing down the person behind his continuing woes leads to a wonderfully engaging labyrithine tale of foes and woes which all boils down to putting fear into the man without... any of that ... fear that is.

Its good stuff, even if it doesn't quite hold up to the prison stuff. Its still very good. That however is not why I'm here. Rather I'm here to talk about the aftermath of that story held in the trade 'Cruel and Unusual' a fine story indeed. The story of Matt Murduck a man destroyed and beyond hope pulled back trying to save an evil man behold hope on death row and for once innocnet. Okay so the crme caper doesn't quite hold up to close scrutiny. It does hold together though 'cos it bowls you through and bowls over with some great characters and some nice distraction so you don't look too close.

Its cracking stuff with Brubaker joined by his old lacky Rucka (and Michael Lark) and I really enjoyed this one. If for no other reason that they seemed to break the DD trope of driving him further and further down a path of self destruction after the death / betrayl / losing a loved one. I mean its not like he's handling things well BUT for now at least this hope against the hopeless. This tale of Matt Murdock saving someone beyond hope, even if he can't save other's, even if it is Brubaker and Rucka by the numbers is really refreshing and actually possibly the highlight of this run.

Colin YNWA

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Re: Daredevil fans in the house?
« Reply #126 on: 16 August, 2018, 09:48:13 PM »
Once again I've been ignoring the woes of Matt Murdock BUT finally got around to a long time coming re-re-re-re-re-read of Frank Miller and Klaus Janson's run (well up to the end of the Angel Dust arc at least).

Anyway I thought I'd been pretty down on that run in this thread on a number of occasions and the last couple of times I've read it I don't think its held up too well and hasn't aged as well as the Nocenti run a few years later. Well that still holds but this time, reading my digital copies for the first time, I actually think it hold up better than I remember.

Firstly its still visually as stunning as ever and Miller greatly enhanched by Janson's perfect noir inks does some stunning, simply stunning work. Its visually inventive and the storytelling is second to none. The Eisner influences are many fold and clear, but if you are going to wear your influences so clearly on your sleeves you could choice a lot wore.

Storywise it is more creaky and while its still nicely plotted, dramatic and exciting it suffers from having so much influence on works that have been able to build on what its done, but learning and able to aim at an older more developed audience. It can feel hocky at time... but a good kinda hocky.

So yes I'm very pleased I've read this again. Will be picking up the bits I'm missing and over all hold up better this time than it has on recent re-reads.

Colin YNWA

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Re: Daredevil fans in the house?
« Reply #127 on: 12 July, 2019, 09:16:45 PM »
Okay so re-read the whole Mark Waid run, with a host of wonderful artists, most notably Chros Samnee and I'm ready to make the call. Its a tough call but its gotta be made, so ... well ya know nerds and lists so here you go...

... ready...

Nocenti >Waid.

Now these are two mighty titans and the Waid run is just brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.Probably my favourite mainstream (DC / Marvel) is probably (possibly) my favourite of the 21st Century - certainly given the Wally West Flash run doesn't really count for that being mainly a late 80s 90s title. Anyway Waid immerses himself in Matt and in a number of really tight, well plotted archs really, quite breathtakingly keeps the tension going. Its series of tales just relentlessly build excitment, release, builds excitment release, builds excitment - release. The longer stories that run across these mini-masterpieces for the same. The run as a whole does the same.

Its just the best paper turner ever. While managing to be whipsmart and a wonderful character piece at the same time.

Just glorious.

So why does Nocenti top it. If only just. Similar Waid's run so so solidly in the superhero genre and world. Its a supreme example of the form. Nocenti stretches things a little more. Nocenti is bolder and just shakes your expectations. Waid meets your expectations perfectly time and again its not got the chaotic innovation and fearlessnes of Nocenti's masterpiece.

TordelBack

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Re: Daredevil fans in the house?
« Reply #128 on: 13 July, 2019, 10:00:04 AM »
I've only dipped in and out of Daredevil over the decades (Miller, Brubaker, Waid mainly), having come to him late through an X-Factor / Apocalypse crossover in some Marvel UK weekly, but Colin your deep ruminations on this thread make me want to take on a read of the whole thing. Keep it up!

Greg M.

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Re: Daredevil fans in the house?
« Reply #129 on: 13 July, 2019, 10:06:28 AM »
I'll need to re-read the Waid run, to see if it's still as impressive and exciting as I found it at the time. At present, it's looking like Waid's last great work - he's had a lot of misfires since then, with the best of his post-Daredevil writing being merely 'ok'.

Colin YNWA

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Re: Daredevil fans in the house?
« Reply #130 on: 13 July, 2019, 02:30:35 PM »
I've not read much Waid after this run - for no reason other than I'm not reading much superhero stuff at all and he's not done a title I'm interesting in since this - well was tempted by his Black Widow but for whatever reason just haven't got to it. Anyway he's done some superb stuff prior to this - his track record is hard to match - but for all that this is indeed his magnum opus.

So on another point I've decided on my all time top DD runs (by writer largely though a number of artist have played a significent part to each of these runs) list and its:

Nocenti > Waid >>> Bendis > Brubaker > Miller + Janson* >>>> everything else

*[Normalfontsize] I'm excluding 'Born Again' here as its possibly the best DD story ever but at only 7 issues I don't think it counts as a 'run' and brilliant as it is I don't want to add it to this big run as it'd muddy the waters. [/Normalfontsize]

Colin YNWA

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Re: Daredevil fans in the house?
« Reply #131 on: 14 April, 2021, 09:06:03 PM »
So had the first volume of Daredevil - Back in Black by Charles Soule and Ron Garney - hmmm. As this thread will testify I'm a big DD fan. Even now when I'm largely off the superheroics (sure I'll bounce back into them, I've done it before) whenever I read good DD I'm straight back in there and there's a lot of good DD out there. And that might be the problem this team face.

I mean its not bad. Its trying to shake things up, Daredevil is back in his black costume - from a period I must admit I've never bothered with and from the little I've read I have no desire to. Matt is back in the box a secret. DD has a side kick whose all cool and mysterious and there's a new villain... with... errr.... 10 fingers on each hand... cos... ten fingers I guess. Apparently it means he can have more triggers on his gun.... which makes it... more trigger... oh and he's stolen from the Hand and the Hand won't stand for that. And we know the Hand mean trouble as DD and Matt has smacked their ass more time than you can shake a Stick at (see what I did there).... and well its all cool and gritty and so Daredevil... its just I don't really care.

None of the things that are done seem to be done for any reason other than to try to do something new with Matt and DD. There's nothing to care about here and nothing to grab me and make me want to read more. Nothing new. Is that 'cos I've so much DD. Is this cos I'm jaded on superheroes in general. Is it cos none of the elements specifically resonate with me. Or is it cos it decidely average modern comics with nothing really to say and so pretty weak writing at times. A boss who doesn't think Matt will work - until he blames him for having a key witness broken out of jail - he's a DA now see - which he had absolutely no control over AND then the boss reverses what he said before saying he expected great things from Matt. Is it the lame pointless villain who offers nothing. Is it the fact that there is no sense of why all these changes exist in Matt's life other than to try to do something different?

Its all a bit lumpy unnecessary and I can't see myself trying any more - though I'm sure a Comixology sale will make a lair out of me there at some point. Is the Chip Zdarsky stuff any good? I hear good rumblings?

SmallBlueThing(Reborn)

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Re: Daredevil fans in the house?
« Reply #132 on: 14 April, 2021, 11:06:34 PM »
Like you Colin, I seem always to come back to DD and get sucked in. I probably have OCDDD, as I find myself with a shortbox full of DD runs that have been started, then abandoned, and a whole shelf of the trades when I find the back issues have gone out of my price range.

The Soule series was at the time a let-down after the glories of the Waid/ Samnee years, and i admit to being in the position only now to slowly filling in the later issues (i think I'm about ten off the set)- but the Zdarskey run... oh my word. It's sheer bliss. Without a doubt the best book Marvel are putting out at the moment (with the cautionary word that I'm only now catching up on Slott's FF, and that it may come down to a fist fight between the two).

I have little experience of Zdarskey elsewhere- other than his Peter Parker series, which was okay, and his Spidey: Life Story six-parter, which was unquestionably the best Spidey since the first 'Superior'. So his take on DD is, for me, all the more astonishing.

He even managed to make the corporate-mandated 'King In Black' tie-in issues at least readable, even if they had the air of a grumpily executed "just get this crap done so we can move on with the story I'm actually telling".

Be warned though, that many of the early issues of Zdarskey's series are now commanding stupid prices even in second and third printings- if I hadn't committed to filling in the gaps (four away I think), i would have gone for the trades... but you know how it is.

SBT

Colin YNWA

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Re: Daredevil fans in the house?
« Reply #133 on: 15 April, 2021, 07:21:25 AM »
Oh that's interesting - I'll check that out at some point. I know the prices went ballistic when Elektra became DD but fortunately for whatever reason I'm happy to get Daredevil in trades and even Digital these days - I've been eyeing up Daredevil by Frank Miller box set - it pricey but there's some stuff there I've not got anymore or have old editions of and it does look like a lovely presentation and to have all this stuff in a consistant format is very. very tempting. Well except for my precious Nocenti run which I treasure - I I do that this will be like the fourth format I've own many of these comics in!

ANYWAY all that to say cool - next time there's a digital sale I'll pick up the Zdarskey run and give it a try.

CalHab

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Re: Daredevil fans in the house?
« Reply #134 on: 15 April, 2021, 07:59:23 AM »
Its all a bit lumpy unnecessary and I can't see myself trying any more - though I'm sure a Comixology sale will make a lair out of me there at some point. Is the Chip Zdarsky stuff any good? I hear good rumblings?

He's got a good handle on the character. Well worth picking up.