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Wesley Crusher?

Started by McGurk76, 19 January, 2021, 07:52:40 AM

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McGurk76

Quote from: broodblik on 19 January, 2021, 11:32:50 AM
The dislike of the character is almost the same as Joffrey from GoT. The hate for Joffrey  grew so big that the actor Jack Gleeson semi-retired for acting. I hate this from the modern internet, these guys are actors doing a job playing a character. I think that Will Wheaton would have suffered the same fate if TNG was released today.
An interesting comparison. Although Joffrey is supposed to be a total bastard. Gleeson, if anything, played him too well. In contrast, we're supposed to like Wesley Crusher. And it seems most people didn't.
Personally, I'm not sure its entirely an internet thing. Some people always seem to have had trouble recognising the difference between characters and the actors who play them. Wesley's stint on ST largely predates the internet.

Link Prime

This has to be a nerd honey trap to see how long it will take before someone types "Shut up, Wesley".

Link Prime

Quote from: McGurk76 on 19 January, 2021, 07:52:40 AM
I was watching Star Trek the other day.
What was the deal with Wesley Crusher exactly?
I seem to remember he was very unpopular with the ST fan base for some reason? Why was that? He was an okay actor wasn't he? Was he forced off the show in the end?

Shut up, Wesley. 

;)

TordelBack

Quote from: McGurk76 on 19 January, 2021, 11:47:55 AMWesley's stint on ST largely predates the internet.

Pre-web, not pre-internet: the first Usenet reference to Wesley dates to 1987. And definitely not for Wil Wheaton himself, he was an active BB'er from way back. The dickery started almost instantly. 

For myself the first thing I ever did on the internet was sign up for the Strek-L Listserv in 1989 which was a hive of activity, when Next Gen hadn't even aired in Ireland and we had to rent it a year behind and two episodes at a time on VHS. 

Funt Solo

I slavishly watched Next Gen, but it was incredibly leaden in it's delivery of worthiness. I hate the term "woke", but it was just so feckin' woke. The Waltons in space. And Wesley was John Boy.

Worf's son Alexander was scripted in a better way because, first and foremost, he was a child, as opposed to a super-heroic, overly precocious teenager.

But he wasn't as annoying as Counselor Troi.

And I'm talking about characters, not actors.

++ A-Z ++  coma ++

Definitely Not Mister Pops

#20
The Next Generation's first 2 series were definitely the weakest.

Wesley Crusher featured heavily in the first two series.

There's some sort of relationship going on between those two facts that puts people off Wesley. The writers hadn't yet figured out how to make a Star Trek TV revival work in the '80s and Wesley got the shitty end of that stick. Tasha Yar was only in the first season and she seems to have got away without any ill will. Maybe it's the added child factor, because as poorly rounded as female characters (bar Pulaski, who was really just McCoy with tits), the child characters were even worse. They were usually quite wide-eyed and overly naĆ­ve, but at the same time I remember a ~9 year kid being chastised for not doing his calculus homework in one episode. A society that makes primary school kids do calculus is not utopian.

Thankfully these issues were hammered out by the time Jake Sisco and Nog showed up. Jake and Nog were way more sympathetic and relatable. I haven't encountered any DS9 fans who didn't like those two. I certainly never heard about them getting any hate.
You may quote me on that.

TordelBack

#21
Nog is obviously the standout child character of the whole franchise, just remarkable how someone could go from uncouth and annoying to noble and nuanced so gradually and plausibly. However it definitely helped that the much-missed Aron Eisenberg was into his 20s when the show started.

Just as remarkable is Cirroc Lofton's very human Jake, who had such a believable and positive relationship with his father that I very consciously modelled my own attempts at parenting on Sisko.

Definitely a huge step forward from how Wesley was treated as a character, although in defence of TNG it needed to exist in the way it did in order for the superior DS9 to have something to play against.

Tiplodocus

Quote from: TordelBack on 19 January, 2021, 05:59:11 PM
I very consciously modelled my own attempts at parenting on Sisko.


"Look kids, Daddy is going to commit some war crimes. But do as I say, not as I do, OK?"
Be excellent to each other. And party on!

TordelBack


von Boom

Since there were families aboard the Enterprise in TNG I always had it in mind that Wesley bullied the younger kids on the ship when there were no adults within earshot but when they would try to fight back in some way he'd just use Picard as his trump card to win. He was just a snotty git to me.

Dandontdare

#25
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 19 January, 2021, 06:14:20 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 19 January, 2021, 05:59:11 PM
I very consciously modelled my own attempts at parenting on Sisko.
"Look kids, Daddy is going to commit some war crimes. But do as I say, not as I do, OK?"
"...but it's okay because I'm God's Chosen One, and you're not!"

Quote from: von Boom on 19 January, 2021, 07:22:46 PM
Since there were families aboard the Enterprise in TNG I always had it in mind that Wesley bullied the younger kids on the ship when there were no adults within earshot but when they would try to fight back in some way he'd just use Picard as his trump card to win. He was just a snotty git to me.

Nah - he's the kid who got bullied by the younger kids so had to spend lunchtime with the dinnerladies.

From what I've seen of WW since (mainly based on Big Bang Theory and related press), he does seem to be a genuinely relaxed and funny guy willing to laugh at himself.

Some of the recurrent Wesley memes are quite funny though:
https://imgur.com/gallery/eLtxvC3
https://imgur.com/gallery/Y2d7b4T
https://imgur.com/gallery/u0h20

Funt Solo

I enjoyed his Tabletop series, but it seems like that's in the past now.
++ A-Z ++  coma ++

wedgeski

I didn't quite buy Nog's transformation into Starfleet paragon, but boy was his PTSD storyline good.

pictsy

Quote from: von Boom on 19 January, 2021, 07:22:46 PM
He was just a snotty git to me.

I agree.  I think the writers caught onto this as well.  The episode Holo Pursuits gives a good perception of what Wesley's character is.  And yes, he's totally a bully.  He started the Broccoli nickname for Barclay.

The early Seasons he was insufferable.  For reasons given here.  He shouldn't have been bridge crew, he shouldn't have been a Dues Ex Machina and his presence as some super genius messiah (don't forget that nugget that was introduced early on) undermined the rest of the program.  Nevertheless, those early Seasons are problematic and ropey as fuck.  Wesley was just the worst written character most of the time.

Later Seasons do Wesley much better.  He's got some damn good episodes and I really liked him dropping out of Star Fleet and giving Picard the middle finger (which Picard deserves).  He just had too much baggage.  He was made a super human in the first season and it just didn't work.

The Legendary Shark


It always seemed to me that some executive in a pre-production meeting said, "Yes, yes, yes - but how do we get kids to watch it?"

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