.
Despite visits from
three Amazon associates in white vans, two of them wielding parcels the size of unusually lengthy books, my walk home from work was unencumbered by 1000 pages of psychogeography, ill advised rape scenes, and ranting against Northampton Town Council.
Undaunted, I thought I'd pave the way for this thread of exhaustive literary analysis - which I expect to receive as many as
three (brief) replies - with the first Moore interview I've read in ages that lets him speak affably and entertainingly on the vast range of topics he knows more about than almost everyone else, rather than bear baiting him to have a go at superhero comics and their readers.
Works on a tabloid level too. There's a hilarious dialogue with a tramp about Dave Gibbons/DC, and Dominic Wells identifies the 'girlfriend' Moore and his first wife shared - whose familiar
surname was a revelation to me at least:
Quote"I continually monitor the possibility that I might be going mad."
Moore and I are holed up in an Italian restaurant in Northampton to discuss the culmination of a lifetime's work, research and philosophy. "Bigger than the Bible and I hope more socially useful", is how Moore describes his sprawling magnum opus, Jerusalem, with his customarily deadpan humour.
Moore hasn't lost the astonishing verbal felicity with which his every sentence emerges fully formed, sub-clauses and all. It's as though he were writing rather than speaking; or as though he already knows how each sentence will end before he embarks upon it.
In 1994, Moore experienced an "absolute, crystalline understanding" during a magical ritual. Since then, Moore has believed, as Einstein supposedly did, that time is a solid in which our lives are embedded; it is only our perception of it which makes it appear linear.
"The thing is," says Moore, "we don't have free will, or at least that's what I believe, and I think most physicists tend to think that as well, that this is a predetermined universe. That's got to pretty much kill religion because there aren't any religions that aren't based on some kind of moral imperative. They've all got sin, karma or something a bit like that.
In a predetermined universe how can you talk about sin? How can you talk about virtue?"
"We're talking here about heaven and hell, we're talking about them as being simultaneous and present, that all the worst moments of your life forever, that's hell; all the best moments of your life forever, that's paradise.
So, this is where we are. We're in hell, we're in paradise; both together, forever. I'm saying that everywhere is Jerusalem. That in an Einsteinian block universe, where all time is presumably simultaneous, then everywhere is the eternal heavenly city."
This is why, as in Alan Moore's first novel, Voice of the Fire, almost all the action in Jerusalem takes place within a small geographical area of Northampton, but ranging across different historical eras, each centring on different protagonists who end up interconnecting in surprising ways.
It's part social history of Northampton, part thinly fictionalised history of Moore's own family, part philosophical treatise, part rip-roaring adventure in which a gang of kids maraud through the afterlife in a central section Moore describes as like "a savage, hallucinating Enid Blyton".
As if that wasn't hard enough to pull off, Moore adapts his writing style to the inner voice of whoever is the chapter's focus.
One is written as a play, in the style of Waiting for Godot, and throws together the spirits of Thomas Becket, Samuel Beckett, John Clare and John Bunyan – all of whom have some connection with Northampton – as they observe and comment on a husband and wife wrestling with a terrible family secret ...
Another chapter, described from the point of view of James Joyce's mad daughter Lucia who was institutionalised for 30 years in a Northampton mental hospital, is written in a mangled, pun-filled gibber-English as a homage to Joyce's Finnegans Wake. It was so laborious to compose that Moore took a year's break after finishing it.
If this makes Jerusalem sound like hard going, it isn't. It's gripping, full of stylistic fireworks, frequently laugh-out-loud funny, sometimes terrifying, occasionally frustrating. Could it have been shorter? Of course. But it's the digressions and bizarre connections that make the book, the nuggets of pure gold that Moore has sifted from the silt of local history through prodigious research and banked in his near-photographic memory.
"Nearly everything is historical fact," says Moore, before deadpanning: "I'd take all the angels and demons with a pinch of salt. A lot of it is actually 100 per cent materially true, but I think all of it is emotionally true.
We are not just our bricks and mortar, we are not just our flesh and blood, we are not just our material components. Everything in our world has got an imaginary component. As individuals, we're always telling people the legend of us. The same goes for our houses, our streets, our towns, our country – there is a huge imaginary component to human life and if in the interests of scientific realism you ignore that, you are not describing reality.
"But science cannot measure the bit that isn't material. Science is a brilliant tool for analysing our material universe, but science cannot talk about what is inside the human mind: it's beyond the realm of proof, it's beyond the realm of science. So I say they should be left to art and magic, which are pretty much the same thing."
One of the most moving aspects of the book is how Moore exhumes the oral working-class history of Northampton, resurrecting and giving voice to those who had none when they lived, such as a homeless teen who died of exposure, whom Moore makes a key character, or "Black Charley", who emigrated to Northampton from America.
"These are the things that need to be preserved. Because they are wonderful. And yet, who cares?
"These things must have happened in every little deprived area, all across the world. But we're not interested in deprived areas, it's got to be the history of Church and State and Monarchy – that's the only history that counts, apparently. I would say that's the only history that's simplistic to keep track of" ...
... "So, yeah," he deadpans. "I am still worshipped as a God by the primitive and superstitious people of Milton Keynes."
https://londonhollywood.wordpress.com/2016/09/22/if-you-read-only-one-alan-moore-jerusalem-interview-make-it-this-one/
Please someone change the name of this thread quick!
Good spot PJ. I read it as Alan :lol:
I do hope that was accidental...
Little doubt it's an intended pun based on Moore's exhaustive probing of his subjects.
Without wanting to be Godpletoned
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2230663/moore.jpg)
If I can be a tiny bit censorious, further rummaging about in the specifics of Moore's earlier relationships might be a bit impolite on the forum of a company who publishes work from a child of that marriage. Leave the gossip to the rest of the internet.
Great interview though! And like Frank, Raymond of Toulouse and possibly Mitchell Royce, I am now champing at the bit to get into Jerusalem. Just one more cash infusion and the small matter of finishing a Peter Hamilton doorstop (a waffer theen meent in comparison) and I'm there.
Peter Hamilton doorstop
I would derive infinitely more pleasure reading the washing instruction tag on Alan Moore's unwashed leather lion cloth than sit through one of Mr Hamiltons winding discourses. Z :(
Quote from: TordelBack on 27 September, 2016, 09:05:15 AM
Just one more cash infusion and the small matter of finishing a Peter Hamilton doorstop (a waffer theen meent in comparison) and I'm there.
We've got a few of those in our flat :-)
Interesting. When it comes to bulging novels by jovial, bearded Englishmen I still haven't been able to clear the hurdle of Moorcock's Jerusalem Commands.
It seems unlikely that I will ever get around to reading this. Too much of the advance publicity has focused on the length and I already thought Voice of the Fire was too long and overwritten. What sounds pleasantly discursive when intoned in the author's richly avuncular voice seems bloated on the page.
Gets a guardedly positive review from The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/15/jerusalem-by-alan-moore-review), but I can't help but focus on comments like this:
Quote from: TFAJerusalem contains a great many inventive and instructive cosmologies. Let me offer my humbler own. Most cultures describe an aboriginal chaos, and into this plenitude intervenes a figure – call it God, Demiurge, Artificer, Urizen – who gives it form, distinction, coherence, elegance and even meaning. An equally good synonym might be Editor.
Quote from: I, Cosh on 27 September, 2016, 01:13:44 PM
I already thought Voice of the Fire was too long and overwritten
Not sure about the first part but the second is fair comment. The editor gag is funny.
Turns out my parcel was delivered to the post office instead of my work. The old lady at the counter tried to hand it to me through that wee metal tray they have underneath the glass screen, but gave up and had to come out the side door to pass it on by hand.
She asked if it was a pair of shoes.I've been watching a lot of COMMANDO FORCES's unboxing videos, so I know how the next bit should go:
The packaging is a disappointment; just plain, beige cardboard. Given the cost, you would have thought they would have made a bit more effort for the fans.
The piece itself is impressive; 1/6 scale and it has a good, weighty feel to it. Just a pity you have to buy your own batteries, which I thought was ripping off the loyal fans who have kept them going all these years.
One nice touch is that the printed cover can actually be removed to reveal a second, variant cover underneath, which I thought was clever. Each page is individually numbered, which can only increase the value of the item.
I had to laugh, because someone clearly messed up. Despite being advertised as containing just 1174 pages, a factory error meant mine shipped with an extra few pages at the front and back, containing bonus material that gives a few bits and bobs about the printer and people the author is related to.
HM Treasury will be furious when they find out they undercharged me on import duty per page! I was so delighted I celebrated by buying another three copies to get signed at conventions. They will give me many hours of pleasure as they sit untouched, still in their original packing, gathering dust in my cellar
I think there's no import duty on books ;)
Quote from: COMMANDO FORCES on 27 September, 2016, 02:49:37 PM
I think there's no import duty on books ;)
Ha! Thanks for taking my mickey taking in good part, John. It's only fitting now that you should take my mickey, as I'm sure all the Irish lads here will agree.
I'm going to dive in after the news. I can see why Link Prime was intimidated; the space between lines is about half that of
Voice Of The Fire. The
1000 pages hype was misleading - if this was typeset like
Voice Of The Fire, the page count would be closer to
2000 ...
Oh Sauchie, sure you're the cute hoor. Z
Quote from: Frank on 27 September, 2016, 05:58:58 PM
Ha! Thanks for taking my mickey taking in good part, John. It's only fitting now that you should take my mickey, as I'm sure all the Irish lads here will agree.
What
exactly are you two shleeveens up to?
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 27 September, 2016, 10:41:19 PM
Quote from: Frank on 27 September, 2016, 05:58:58 PM
Ha! Thanks for taking my mickey taking in good part, John. It's only fitting now that you should take my mickey, as I'm sure all the Irish lads here will agree.
What exactly are you two shleeveens up to?
"Can you imagine it Father: looking up at your husband, and him standing over you with his lad in his hand, wanting you to degrade yourself?".
That.
Flippin' eck, the prologue is awfa' dense for such a monster tome, but it lightens up considerably for the first chapter proper, which was a bit if a relief.
Started tiday, and so far I'm finding it very enjoyable, touching on all the Moore tropes I look for, and one of those books where I can't wait for my next opportunity to read. SPOILERS for PROLOGUE ONLY:
Two things however distracted me a bit in the prologue: the provision of a rather lovely map had me constantly flicking back and forth as I tried to follow the two main journeys and historical digressions, which broke the flow of a pretty gripping opening; and Alma Warren herself, a widely celebrated Northampton working-class artist and heavyset mad-eyed hashish-consuming intellectual picking apart the mystic visions of her storied home through her art (very slight anagram: Alan Mawrre). I think I'd prefer a more explicit authorial insertion to such a thinly-veiled one.
Other than that, onwards!
Quote from: TordelBack on 02 October, 2016, 09:49:08 PM
the prologue is awfa' dense for such a monster tome
It's like one of those signs they put at the front of roller coaster queues that say
YOU HAVE TO BE THIS> TALL TO TAKE THIS RIDE. If you can put up with that level of tedium, you're fine for the rest of the book.
The prologue is the book in microcosm: every maddening passage where the reader is treated to two pages describing Northampton street lighting in
exhausting detail is pierced by occasional shafts of brilliant prose, where eyes are
currants pressed deep into the heaped blood pudding of a face, tower blocks are upended piss perfumed stacks, and skid marks of molten anaconda laminate snake across pavements.
The Cosh was bang on the money with his guess that a good editor could have filleted this down to half the size with a few strokes of red pen. I kid you not, there's an entire chapter where all that happens is [spoiler]Charlie Chaplin[/spoiler] leans against a wall.
Pleased to say I didn't find the prologue remotely tedious - quite the reverse. Just very dense. I'll wait til I'm a bit further on to comment on the need for an editor.
Quote from: TordelBack on 02 October, 2016, 10:48:06 PM
I didn't find the prologue remotely tedious
I'm using hyperbole out of fear of appearing dull when criticising someone much more intelligent and entertaining than me for being occasionally dull. Like I say, there's plenty of
Jerusalem I'm enjoying a lot, there's just a lot else in there too.
In the prologue alone, there are enough hints of the architecture and ambition behind the whole thing to draw the reader in and (along with the local female artist central character) make me think this might be the continuation of
Big Numbers* in another medium Moore has hinted at.
* or at least its ideas
Mmmm, Big Numbers was what the prologue reminded me of too.
Quote from: TordelBack on 02 October, 2016, 09:49:08 PM
Flippin' eck, the prologue is awfa' dense for such a monster tome, but it lightens up considerably for the first chapter proper, which was a bit if a relief.
Started tiday, and so far I'm finding it very enjoyable, touching on all the Moore tropes I look for, and one of those books where I can't wait for my next opportunity to read. SPOILERS for PROLOGUE ONLY:
Two things however distracted me a bit in the prologue: the provision of a rather lovely map had me constantly flicking back and forth as I tried to follow the two main journeys and historical digressions, which broke the flow of a pretty gripping opening; and Alma Warren herself, a widely celebrated Northampton working-class artist and heavyset mad-eyed hashish-consuming intellectual picking apart the mystic visions of her storied home through her art (very slight anagram: Alan Mawrre). I think I'd prefer a more explicit authorial insertion to such a thinly-veiled one.
Other than that, onwards!
Just kicked this off myself. And yeah, about halfway through the prologue I felt maybe I'd bitten off more than I could chew but I have to say, so far I love it. It's so dense and it requires a rigid concentration I'm not sure I'm always equipped with, but it's so beautifully written that every time I think it's overdone (and let's face it - it is), he phrases something so wonderfully I can't stop. Should be done in 2027.
Knowing Moore's penchant for waffling and promoting his own knowledge over telling a story these days, nothing would make me pick up this monstrously large book.
Is it as good as DR & Quinch Go to Hollywood?
Quote from: Tony Angelino on 29 March, 2017, 08:47:46 PM
Is it as good as DR & Quinch Go to Hollywood?
Now I would buy it if it was
Only £2.99 for 60 hours of Jerusalem audiobook for the lazy (me) on Audible!
http://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Fiction/Jerusalem-Audiobook/B01L2PH9AU/ref=a_hp_c2_dd_p?ie=UTF8&pf_rd_r=0QXDRKWDGFN2EEKHQX2G&pf_rd_m=A2YHV2RYTDNFG3&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=5000&pf_rd_p=1303953287&pf_rd_s=center-2
Quote from: CrazyFoxMachine on 26 April, 2017, 12:53:27 AM
Only £2.99 for 60 hours of Jerusalem audiobook for the lazy (me) on Audible!
http://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Fiction/Jerusalem-Audiobook/B01L2PH9AU/ref=a_hp_c2_dd_p?ie=UTF8&pf_rd_r=0QXDRKWDGFN2EEKHQX2G&pf_rd_m=A2YHV2RYTDNFG3&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=5000&pf_rd_p=1303953287&pf_rd_s=center-2
20-25 hours???
The entire audiobook is 60 hours long.
I like listening to audiobooks on my generic mp3 device but most of them will be around the 11-12 hour mark. Even with some of those I get a bit bored and have to come back to them in a week.
I might wait for the abridged version.
I'm now intrigued to hear how ... certain chapters ... sound. If the not-inconsiderable time commitment of the dead tree version puts you off, you should definitely give the audio book a whirl: it's an experience as much as a book.
Quote from: TordelBack on 26 April, 2017, 10:25:59 PM
I'm now intrigued to hear how ... certain chapters ... sound. If the not-inconsiderable time commitment of the dead tree version puts you off, you should definitely give the audio book a whirl: it's an experience as much as a book.
If'n the Magus ain't readin' it, I ain't a-lissenin' ...