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Every year for about 5 years now I've been promising I'll make Lawless someday. Think it was about 2 years ago I promised myself I'd make it, if I wasn't able to do so sooner, to the 10th anniversary convention.

Initially I wrote it off, as the weekend in question is when I was supposed to be doing a van run to help my sister move into her temporary summer digs in Manchester before she starts Uni in September.
Turns out that's been delayed until the following weekend, so might sneak in a cheeky Saturday only trip.
See folks there!

oh that's fantastic news. Its been too long since we caught up Zac.

I'm much the same I've been meaning to get to Lawless for years now but for one reason or another never quite got to it. Having finally taken the plunge I'm now super excited. Hope this inspires me to get back to Thought Bubble as well after far too long. That's for after however...

[#84 - Part 3]

#84 - Part 3

Where to find it

Unfortunately due to licensing issues around the rights to the movies these comics grew from this series has never been reprinted, unlike almost all of his other work. I'm not sure if this is likely to be sorted anytime soon if it hasn't by this point.

For this reason they aren't available digitally either it would seem.

Fortunately even though they have never been reprinted they are still available in the aftermarket and not at silly prices. Be patient however as folks will list these for far more than they would normally sell for. I picked up a full set for about £20 a few years ago. They have gone up a bit since, particularly issue 8 the first appearance of Machine Man. Even so if you wait you'll get a full set south of £40.

The original Treasury adaptation will go for that and more. Hence I've never picked it up, much as I'd love to. It is out there but be prepared to shell out for it if you do decide to buy it.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page

Wired has a decent article about the comics and their relationship to Kubrick.

Peerless Power of Comics has a great page about the movie adaptation with some glorious images from the comic to blow your mind.

Most of the talk on the internet is about the movie adaptation. But good ol' Cartoonist Kayfabe has a great video that covers both that and then moves onto the ongoing series. Jim Rugg also thinks its one of Kirby's best works.

Norton of New York 2040 a.d. from issues 5 and 6 is put under the spotlight by Ryan C.'s Four Color Apocalypse. While Mars will send no more cheekily reproduces the whole of issue 1 for you to check out.

Finally Steve does comics has a look at my favourite issue 7. So there's stuff out there to explore if you nosey around.

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list.

[#84 - Part 2]

#84 - Part 2


Copyright - complicated!

We're not done yet though. King has another of his skills to show off. Having all but done with the trappings of the movie he uses the series to create yet another character in the already bursting pantheon of superheroes he's created. Whether this was a decision driven by Kirby, or an attempt to boost sales by bringing  in a more superheroic element to the series I don't know. Whatever it was it was a success.

Mister Machine, who would become Machine Man debuted in issue 8. He had some very tentative connections to the previous ideas in the comic. He's an android created as part of a programme which when abandoned required the destruction of those androids for fear they may have destructive traits. Mister Machine is spared as he had been taken home by his creator for some more specific development. On hearing the request to detonate the minibombs that had been placed into the robots as a safety measure the creator of Mister Machine, designated X-51, removed the bombs and sends him on his way into the world.

Mister Machine is captured but then encounters the monolith - allowing him to escape. The implication being the monolith pushes an 'developmental leap forward' for this machine in the same way it does with humans and their predecessors. Machine Man as he will soon be called is then off again onto adventures across the Marvel universe.

While not one of Kirby's most celebrated characters I have a real soft spot for Machine Man and love the inventive way he's used. Hunted across the Marvel comics world he allows Kirby to play with similar ideas to those he did with Silver Surfer. His 9 issue run on the Machine Man series that spun out of 2001 which came to an end with issue 10 are great fun and I did consider including them here. I choose not to in the end as they lacked quite the same creative engine of the 2001 issues and feel like 'just' typical Kirby superheroes.


Copyright - complicated!

And it is that which makes 2001, A Space Odyssey standout for me amongst Kirby's many great works. It's why it's my favourite. By being unshackled from a superhero mythos it has some much fun and allows Kirby's creative brilliance to run into all sorts of amazing places. In doing that it provides a perfect summary of what makes Kirby's work so compelling. At first he shows how even tied to a set of rules created by developing someone else's stories, he is able to do so with a vigour and drive that pushes those stories into incredibly interesting places.

Then in a very short period of time it demonstrates that you can't contain such a massive imagination and he pushes against the preconceived ideas he's working within to push them to their natural limits and stretching them out to one of their potential limits. He does this without breaking those boundaries. Rather maximising the potential within them, all be it within the confines of a mainstream comic industry then aimed at a young audience. There's a bravery of taking those potential and perceived limitations of the intended audience (perceived by others, Kirby knew no such limits) and pushing the stories to the places he does.

Finally he takes what's left of that and 'reverts to type'. That type being a creator able to utilise a mainstream superhero universe to create yet more characters and concepts. He does that with the skill and creativity others of that 'type' could barely dream of achieving.

He does all that in just 10 magnificent issues.


Copyright - complicated!

A few years ago at the height of my passion for Kirby there would have been numerous titles from the 70s by Jack Kirby in any list of this sort I created. For a while his 70s output was right up there at the very top of my favourite comics. Over the last few years that absolute adoration has lessened. In part I think because Kirby is at his best as you are first exposed to the brilliance of his unbridled imagination and creative power. For me his work doesn't hold up as well as others to repeated reading. It's that visceral reaction to his raw creativity that blows you away on first exposure. That experience just can't be replicated on subsequent reads.

It's for that reason I think there are only a couple of his series on this list and this one is the highest. I still really admire and enjoy his other 70s and some of his 80s work. I just can't quite capture that initial magic again. That said, in these 10 issues I still see his unrivalled imagination that even his other more lauded works can't quite manage. 

[#84 - Part 1]

#84 - Part 1



Number 84 - 2001, A Space Odyssey

Keywords: Jack Kirby, Imagination, Summation of a genius, nothing like the movie

Creators:
Writer - Jack Kirby
Art - Jack Kirby and Mike Royer
Colours - George Roussos

Publisher: Marvel Comics

No. issues: 10
Date of Publication: 1976 - 1977

Last read: 2024

Jack Kirby is widely regarded as the King. That is the King of mainstream comics. If you want a nice simple (well simple might not be the word) summation of why that is and why his genius and imagination is so admired then look no further than the 10 issues of


Copyright - Marvel Comics (I assume I imagine the movie tie in bit makes this a little complicated and I couldn't be bothered to dig into that!

Across these 10 issues you get so much. The series span out of a treasury edition adaptation of Stanley Kubrick's seminal 1968 adaption of Arthur C Clark's novel. I've never owned that, as much as I've looked for it at a decent price and so I'm not considering it here. I do however add a link to an article about it below as it's meant to be excellent so wanted to add some mention. It would appear that the simple reason that the adaptation came out 8 years after the film is simply Marvel didn't think to purchase the rights. In much the same way their original Planet of the Apes comics came out much later than the first film. By the mid 70s adapting and then expanding upon suitable films just seemed to be something they were interested in.

At the point Marvel purchased those rights Kirby was just returning to the company after a 6 year creatively brilliant, commercially unsuccessful period with DC. When the talk around the Bullpen turned to who would be best placed to take up 2001 the almost universal choice was Jack Kirby. Everyone knew that he could take such an imaginative story and expand upon it. The only person who was unsure seemed to be Kirby himself, who was reluctant to take on someone else's ideas, he had so many of his own after all. But ever the trooper, he took the assignment when asked. Ever the creative genius he quickly threw off the shackles of any limitations he might have seen.


Copyright - complicated!

The movie adaptation was immediately followed by an ongoing series, the trajectory of which is absolutely fascinating and explains why this is my favourite comic series by 'The King'. It also exposes how he quickly got over any doubts he had about being limited with anyone else's story ideas.

The first two issues take the key surface elements of the movie and spin them through a Kirby lens to get them reimagined into a concept that is simply fantastic. We establish a character in a specific circumstance and point in human development. They encounter the Monolith, take a leap forward in human development. Project forward to the future and a space age environment and introduce a character who seems firmly rooted in the second half of the film. Place them in danger, have them escape to a calm realm of mystery and intrigue where they age and be reborn as the starchild. Rince, wash repeat. Well others might have, Kirby did for just two stand alone issues.

For issues 3 and 4 he did actually stick to the same template, however you can already feel him getting restless. He expands the idea from done in ones to two issues. The links to the movie remain the same so the difference is he adds more to the elements he creates.

By issues 5 and 6 he pushes further away from that initial premise as he introduces 'Norton of New York 2040AD' a time when Kirby imagines rather than read comics you live them in theme parks designed to allow you to live your four coloured fantasies. He continues to tie the ideas exploding onto the page back to those two core ideas from 2001, the monolith and the Star Child, but the bonds are weakening and these issues feel more and more like the magnificence of Kirby's creative power running loose.


Copyright - complicated!

Issue 7 feels like a swansung to the ideas tied to the movie. But what a swansung it is. Kirby takes the idea of the Star child, the New Seed and just runs with it. He almost gives us a lifecycle for these cosmic beings. From its creation to its interstellar journey through the stars. That journey realised as only Kirby could with broad pop art sweeps that in the hands of anyone else would feel loose and clumsy. Might become difficult to assimilate and untangle. With Kirby seemingly innate ability to communicate even the most esoteric concepts - how is Kirby crackle so intuitively understood??? - it all reads perfectly and makes as much sense as an intergalactic baby, seemingly without any restrictions on its scale - travelling the stars to seed new life possibly could.

He routes these mindbending ideas with a human story as the Star Child witnesses a terrible human conflict. He takes the essence of victims of that concept to a barren world to use that to seed new life there. I would apologise for spoilers for this comic but really in this instance its not destination its witnessing the journey that is everything here. When you describe the events of the comic it sounds like it should be absolute nonsense. Especially when you consider all this is told with Kirby's traditional hyperbolic dialogue. Yet somehow all that is presented just feels like the perfect vehicle for Kirby's art and his staggering ability to use that to explode high concept ideas onto the comic page.

It's very possible this single comic is my favourite of the many I have read by Kirby. It encapsulates his ability to take the ideas of others and elevate them to something entirely new, and inconceivable to a lesser mind. To then translate that to a tale that is easy to understand and that invites you to marvel at his dynamic, creative genius.

I'm quite looking forward to having a couple of days off... I mean recovery time...

I hope to bump into you all. I've slightly madly got a T-shirt made with my avatar so I'll be wandering around looking like a deranged perfume advert. So I'll be easy to avoid, at least. Anyway I'm a proper Southerner, tall slim glasses-wearing nerdy type, middle of age. Look forward to meeting some fellow boarders.

Cool Beans. I'll defo look out for you.

 I'm proper northern (well from Merseyside and Sheffield so the south of proper northern) and look like a typical Sheffield Gammon (while promising I'm not a gammon and have much more liberal views!). Bald, middle aged and probably a little red of face by the time I arrive (though pasty and gray I'd imagine on Sunday if Saturday evening is as much fun as other cons I've attended!). Overweight of course too - but this is were the Sheffield comes in - but an inability to avoid middleclass outdoor excerise so infecting the middleclass parts of Sheffield mean there's hints I'm trying to do something about it... trying...

Great to hear you are going - is it both days?
Just look for a mad Scotsman and his sidekick (wife) and say Hi.

Yep got a very early train on Saturday morning which will get me there for the start and my train back is early afternoon on Sunday so will get to most things Sunday and can play out Saturday night , if folks aren't at this gala thinkie.

Looking forward to meeting you with any luck Trooper McFad.

Well finished this one on my run this morning and another fine episode it is too. Interesting to hear Simon say he just wants to crack on and get done. Super excited to hear thoughts as we now head towards the end.

To celebrate I finally took the plunge and made all my bookings to come see you both at Lawless... I mean I might have done that for unrelated just finally want to get to Lawless at last reasons but hey let's not spoil the fun.

Looking forward to seeing the live podcast - I'm very curious who the guest is...

I had a go at a booking hotel this weekend and now I'm just playing chicken with the hotel prices so think I am.

Hooray!

Well that's super kind. Since I've just booked ticket, hotel and train its looks like I'm defo, defo in.

Let's see how happy you are when I actually see you - would be lovely to arrange a meet up but I'll also see if I can dig out my forum avatar badge that served me so well at the 40th.

Really looking forward to this now and meeting as many of you as possible.

My fav alternative superhero comic (and the only one needed - if making that call) is known, it's Savage Dragon by Erik Larsen! He's done it all and then some.

Ohhhh interesting. I got something like the first 6 archieve editions which is about the first 150 issues in a Humble Bundle a few years ago and its getting pretty close to the top of the pile. Kinda really intrigued by this one.

I'll champion Martin Edens THE O-MEN until the day I die as the unsung cape capers masterwork.

Oh make sure you're around in a few weeks...

[Dredd]

Hmmmm...

Well let's get too it shall we. Dredd, good in some ways, annoying in others. Why was this 8 pages? Rob Williams seems to get these extended endings a lot and this one just felt so indulgent and just wasn't justified for needed. The story ends as so many have done before BUT in this instance that's disappointing ... or is it... we don't know yet... I hope. So to be of any value this needs to open something else. If Moon is just gone and the point is "Death's coming... won't be long now." that's weak. If Moon's fate has some ramifications for Dredd and Williams' Dredd tales and take on the character then fine. It not this is just annoying as it stands.

This tale was enjoyable enough fun on one level but offered little new except that key specific of the ending which leaves a lot of questions... or not... and if its the latter its just poor... hmmm what a strange ending.

Everything else is top draw mind.

Aquila - nice turn of events.

Indigo Prime great stuff, and now want to re-read to piece a few bits together. I think I have a reading that works for me, we'll see but this was great.

Brink - genius as ever.

Proteus Vex - yes but she's the fun kinda mass murder. What a character what a story!

So great Prog except a decent Dredd that's left me with more questions than answers... I hope...

Oh oh oh. Keep forgetting to say for alternative superhero takes the best two are from the house of Tharg (well ish) in Zenith and New Statesmen from Crisis which is next door to Tharg's Thrill-house so we'll take it as ours hey.

No doubt you've read them Doomlord666 but they need to be mentioned in any conversation of this type.

[The Tiger]

The Tiger

2015 film about the hunt for the last tiger in Korea in 1910s when Korea was under Japanese rule. The tiger is very much a mythical beast in this and the one mistake this film makes is moving away the barely seen flashes of tigerinessin the trees and bushes, we see in the opening hour which are just superb into full blown CGI tiger monster we see bashing numerous folks around in the second half.

It moves the tiger away from mythical mountain lord preparing to ascend to godhood that is so central to this piece and its themes of the old ways moving on and the cost of this. I see why they do it as it humanises the tiger as a character which is also important but I'm sure this could have been done without going full hulk tiger mode.

That aside an exquisite film with some fantastic central performances, wonderful cinematography and which pack quite the emotional punch. So moving and so well done.

Its on Amazon prime and well worth a go if you have a sub there.

Following a previous review I've nearly finished reading Elektra Assassin for the very first time. I did see it on shelves near the time it came out but I think I was put off buying it by the art which looked a bit pretentious. Let's face it, it is a bit pretentious, but it's also ruddy good - love it!

Nice! Glad you enjoyed it.

Kill or Be Killed has been on my list for so long now, believe it was billed to me at TB years ago as 'Satanic Panic Button Man' and yeah, looks dope.

Ha! That's an interesting take on it. Read it and make your mind up Zac.

It's Lonely at the Centre of the Earth by Zoe Thorogood

Wonderful book. I hope everyone her owns a copy.

That's another one I fully intent to check out at some point DAMN SO MANTY DAMAGED GOOD COMICS OUT THERE...

Anyway if anyone else has recommendations for comics or graphic novels like KOBK or ones that have a different take on the superhero story I'd be interested

Black Hammer is perhaps an obvious one, and pretty great. Ordinary, if you've not read it in the Meg, flips superheroes on its head quite nicely, and is currently two quid if Forbidden Planet for the hardcover.

Hmmm Black Hammer. Is it making the list Colin? I didn't make it past the first series because of the way it went a bit up its own arsehole. The journey up to that point was pretty good. I was wondering about picking it up again as there has been quite a bit more, and it generally reviews well. I need a write-up, Colin!

Yeah Black Hammer really is the obvious go to for recommendations of alternative takes on Superheroes. In many ways its the only superhero comic you need as it covers so much ground.

Its defo on the list but will need some thought as I'm still trying to process 'The End' and work out if I liked it or not. Its place was determined before it started (or as it just started). I might read The End again to see if it worked ahead of my write up.