Again thanks for Colin for the wonderful tourney he is running but I am quite intrigued whom people would go for.
Halo Jones vs The Out
So please cast your vote your opinion and whatever you think of these two wonderful strips.
My vote goes to The Out
The Out
Ohhh that's an interesting question - and one I'd always kinda hoped would come up - there's a few like that - so these little side shows could be immense fun...
... having said that I'm going to have to think about this...
Halo for me. It's a very special strip and was way ahead of its time. The Out is great of course but isn't quite as original, inventive and moving as Big Al's epic sci fi tragedy.
At this moment in time I'd still have to plump for Halo however if the Out saga continues with a couple more books of high consistency if not better then Halo will take a back seat.
I really am enjoying The Out, but just taking the first book, it's The Ballad of Halo Jones. Cyd might be realistic, but she's not sympathetic. The two-hander of forgetting where Earth is and why she left beggars belief in a way that a Zenade or a Different Drummer doesn't. Halo just feels more real.
They're both incredibly good. Being forced to choose is odd. But Halo.
The Out is fucking brilliant.
But it's Halo Jones, not just for Moore's script in books 2 & 3 but because it's Ian Gibson at his very very best. Even it's ending and legacy of longing are brilliant constructs... the greatest what if... in 2000ad history.
My first encounter with Halo Jones was the second prog I read. My younger self hated the story, no action and it felt a lot like why I would care for people going to a shopping mall. By book 3 I was hooked maybe of the outlandish war-theme or starting to understand the treats from book 1 and 2 being expose in book 3. I still see Halo Jones as a more sex symbol where Cyd is a deeper character hiding behind her trauma with a face of almost no care in the world. I was hooked with the Out since book 1 episode 1. So yes, for that early hook I have to say The Out.
If Halo Jones had been finished, snd finished to the same standard as the three books we have, it would likely be difficult to refer to it as anything else but British comics' most shining achievement.
However, it wasn't finished and we have to judge it as either a thing of itself, or as the first act in a story missing two-thirds.
The Out has only just begun, and at any moment we might find that what we assume is its trajectory is not at all what Abnett and Harrison have in store. The potential is limitless, and Abnett has, to my mind, already proven himself to be a far better comics storyteller than even Moore was in his prime.
Because of this, I vote The Out. Because however good it is at the moment, after two books, it's likely going to get even better over the coming years.
SBT
Yeah I think at the end of the day The Out gets this for its potential. Halo Jones is wonderful no doubt, but then so is The Out. Halo Jones is done and as complete as we'll ever know. For all of Neil Gaiman's tears to the rest of us its beautifully drawn frustration of what might have been. Its potential snuffed out.
The Out has so many places left to go. Has already been so many places. Its also bolder in its story structure and I delight in the way it distracts us from its deeply painful driving force for Cyd, just as she does to herself. Its just brilliant and its potential still knows no bounds.
i'm glad that halo jones ended so perfectly where it did.
(just like, in my universe, swamp thing finished forever with issue 64, return of the good gumbo, in 1987).
i love the out. but many of us wouldn't even be reading it and thinking about it in the ways we do if there hadn't been a halo jones.
I don't think it's right to vote on the basis of "potential." I'm basing my vote on the work actually published to date. I can always change my mind if there's more of The Out in future.
The Out is very good, and maybe it will get even better. It's my favourite new strip to arrive in the last few years. But I still think that Halo Jones is, for now, better. I can't tell how much of my opinion is objective assessment and how much is emotional; I first read Halo at a young age when probably everything I read had more impact, and Halo Jones was undoubtedly the first time I encountered tragedy in a comic. So it would take a lot to induce me to vote it into second place out of two candidates.
I don't agree with the notion that Halo Jones is incomplete just because Alan Moore had planned to write nine books and only wrote three of them; the ending of the third book feels like a proper ending to me, and the three books feel like a complete trilogy, not just the first third of something bigger and unfinished.
So for me it's Halo Jones.
This is a really difficult one to call as The Out has places to go but Halo reached a premature end. As I've asked elsewhere, will we ever see a planned outline of the rest of Halo's story?
Because Book 3 is among my favourite Ian Gibson work ever, Halo Jones.
Halo Jones. I have to say, although there is a lot of hype surrounding Halo Jones, it still exceeded my expectations when reading it for the first time a few years ago. A perfect match of art and script.
I look forward to reading The Out in a TPB all together at once at some point in the future...then voting again!
I agree with what Richard says.
I'm going Halo on the same basis.
But it's a testimony to The Out that we are even having this conversation. But for me it's not even Dan Abnett's best strip. I prefer Brink and Feral & Foe.
Quote from: Magnetica on 04 February, 2022, 09:12:19 AM
But it's a testimony to The Out that we are even having this conversation. But for me it's not even Dan Abnett's best strip. I prefer Brink and Feral & Foe.
There's a good idea for another of these 'Sideshow Votes' (love that title by the way!) - whats everyone's favourite current Dabnett series?
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 04 February, 2022, 10:32:58 AM
Quote from: Magnetica on 04 February, 2022, 09:12:19 AM
But it's a testimony to The Out that we are even having this conversation. But for me it's not even Dan Abnett's best strip. I prefer Brink and Feral & Foe.
There's a good idea for another of these 'Sideshow Votes' (love that title by the way!) - whats everyone's favourite current Dabnett series?
I will run with that as soon as we are tired of worshipping AM and DA
Quote from: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 03 February, 2022, 04:33:35 PM
The potential is limitless, and Abnett has, to my mind, already proven himself to be a far better comics storyteller than even Moore was in his prime.
SBT
Now there's a bold statement. Can't say I agree, but Dabnett is a fine writer.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 04 February, 2022, 10:45:18 AM
Quote from: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 03 February, 2022, 04:33:35 PM
The potential is limitless, and Abnett has, to my mind, already proven himself to be a far better comics storyteller than even Moore was in his prime.
SBT
Now there's a bold statement. Can't say I agree, but Dabnett is a fine writer.
It is bold but you know what I'd be tempted to agree. Alan Moore 'suffers' from being defining. So much of what he did was so good that it helps define what folks think of as good as its difficult to get a clear view. I think comic writing has moved on and folks have learnt as developed from Moore and in a few cases have surpassed him.
Now specifically when it comes to storytelling I thing Dabnett has learnt to craft a story better than Alan Moore. Alan Moore is all about the layering, the weaving themes and ideas through story. When it comes to telling a smart, incisive story, satisfying I would dare to suggest Dabentt is better (I may regret this in the morning and I've not put loads of thought into this!).
Alan Moore is The Beatles, we should celebrate and adore him. We should love and return to his work time and again. We shouldn't however put him in such a pedistal as to think no one can better him, or evenn has bettered him, all be if by learning from what he did. I mean folks can come to that conclusion, that no on has, the danger is going in with that assumption.
One of the reasons early (2000ad, Warrior, Marvel UK) Moore is so good is that you still get a sense of him finding his own tropes. Even though his major works for each of those early publishers include many of the things people complain about in later Moore, there's just less of a sense of him doing him.
There's probably much the same argument to be made about Pat Mills, or any band where you get a sense that they almost become their own tribute act.
PS: As a collection only reader, The Out sounds fascinating. Any idea if there are plans for a collection?
Its due ... snigger... OUT ... ahem sorry... in October according to Amazon*
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Dan-Abnett/dp/1786186969/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1KQOBQISY8MN9&keywords=the+out+dan+abnett&qid=1643974062&s=books&sprefix=the+out+dan+a%2Cstripbooks%2C66&sr=1-1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Dan-Abnett/dp/1786186969/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1KQOBQISY8MN9&keywords=the+out+dan+abnett&qid=1643974062&s=books&sprefix=the+out+dan+a%2Cstripbooks%2C66&sr=1-1)
*Other more ethically acceptable book sellers are available.
A hard choice, hard as any in the Tourney proper.
Harrions's art in The Out is more sophisticated, with a LOT more going on in the background, but I've a real soft spot for Ian Gibson's work, and especially in Book 3 he really does tickle the emotions in a special way, he brings a lot of weight.
On balance, based on what has been told so far, I'm going with Halo Jones as marginally 'better'. As Funt said, the character(s) are a touch more sympathetic, the sitaution just a little more accesible and, frankyl, some of the basic storytelling is just easier to follow in Halo Jones and I value that a lot. Some of the big ideas in the Out, though, are giving me more to chew on, and that's no small thing, to out-imagination Alan Moore...
Halo Jones
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 04 February, 2022, 11:28:51 AM
Its due ... snigger... OUT ... ahem sorry... in October according to Amazon*
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Dan-Abnett/dp/1786186969/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1KQOBQISY8MN9&keywords=the+out+dan+abnett&qid=1643974062&s=books&sprefix=the+out+dan+a%2Cstripbooks%2C66&sr=1-1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Dan-Abnett/dp/1786186969/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1KQOBQISY8MN9&keywords=the+out+dan+abnett&qid=1643974062&s=books&sprefix=the+out+dan+a%2Cstripbooks%2C66&sr=1-1)
*Other more ethically acceptable book sellers are available.
Ta much!
I can't vote against Halo, I just can't. Despite how much I'm enjoying Dabnett's work, Halo is *the* intrinsic through-line in my comics journey.
Halo Jones
Quote from: The Mind of Wolfie Smith on 03 February, 2022, 09:09:04 PM
i'm glad that halo jones ended so perfectly where it did.
(just like, in my universe, swamp thing finished forever with issue 64, return of the good gumbo, in 1987).
i love the out. but many of us wouldn't even be reading it and thinking about it in the ways we do if there hadn't been a halo jones.
Good point. While I'd have loved to (and still would like to) read further adventures of Halo Jones, I think the ending we got, even if it wasn't intended to be an ending at the time, worked very well.
At the moment, I'll vote The Ballad of Halo Jones. I like the Out a lot though. I don't think there really needs to be a favourite, as they're different enough.
The Out for me. It's been the most surprising, unpredictable thrill in a long time. It can, and does go anywhere. It's grown in scope and scale every week.
Only Book 3 of Halo was a true classic for me (Gibson's art was never better) but it felt like things were just getting started, and the real story hadn't yet started.
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 04 February, 2022, 10:53:41 AM
Alan Moore is The Beatles ...
Now this is potentially the best analogy going. Considering that the Beatles were a skiffle band that made it big, morphed a couple of times before imploding ...
Moore produced a handful of Tooth strips [Jones, Quinch, Future Shocks] before scooching off to DC. Granted V for Vendetta straddles those periods. Even so, his output this side of the Atlantic is not overwhelming. Again, we come back to Colin's analogy ...
Quote from: Tjm86 on 06 February, 2022, 12:53:59 AM
Moore produced a handful of Tooth strips [Jones, Quinch, Future Shocks] before scooching off to DC.
And a significant chunk of memorable Time Twisters, and Skizz.
Some very interesting points and views. Although the classic is garnering most of the votes the classic in the making surely has our respect and love. The most common view is just give it time it has the protentional too be enough grater than you know who.
Now let's call it a day by Tuesday morning but to be honest at this stage I cannot see the one in the making surpassing the one already there.
PS – For me personally Halo Jones is still AM's greatest work yes even better than Watchmen.
At the end this was one was quite straightforward with the winner gathering the bulk of the vote. As I already stated most was the opinion that the soon, we will have another classic thrill just give it time and let's see what direction our creative team takes it.
Voting closed the winner:
Halo Jones
It was always going to be. Give it 3 years and let's run it again!