Prog 2043 - Signs of the Times

[Jacqusie]

Great cover by Lynch and as the banner title is unreadable, it's a good time to ditch it.

I did wonder however, why does Dredd keep a big red dildo on his handle bars? 

[Frank]

The comic doesn't have a future if it doesn't attract new readers. Where do you think they're going to come from?

I didn't say the comic isn't or shouldn't try to attract new readers. I said ten year olds stopped buying comics thirty years ago. *

Readership of 2000ad has fallen precipitously for the last thirty years**. It only exists today at the indulgence of a sincere and enthusiastic individual, who seems dedicated to maximising the potential audience through expansion into other territories and media.

None of these areas of expansion - the R rated 2012 film, IDW Dredd, Rebellion's US mini-series, the Rogue Trooper game, the proposed TV show - seem targeted towards juvenile audiences. You could conclude that Tharg just hates kids, or you could surmise that he knows to whom 2000ad IPs appeal.***


* If anyone wishes to argue that ten year olds would buy an adventure comic if only someone published such a title, I have no more factual basis for refuting that assertion than there is evidence to support that assertion.

** 100,000 in 1990, 50,000 in 1995, 25,000 in 2000, 15,000 in 2013: http://tinyurl.com/yd49dr6n

*** Although the latest Thrillcast suggests the Scream/Misty Hallowe'en special hopes to attract younger readers as well as nostalgic adults.

[TordelBack]

I'd presume that the EVIL POWERS THAT BE can easily dodge/fake or buy out the relevant parties?

Arrange to have no autopsy/mortician just so that Blake gets to have J*mm* S*v*ll* burnt alive?  Why would they bother? It's not like he was following orders, what's the motivation for them? Just kill him.   

I have no doubt it could be done, but in a story about assassins and cover-ups, where we've had to endure seeing a Saville proxy in the prog, might it not be nice to address this sort of thing rather than just chuck out a throwaway setup for some nasty wish-fulfilment vengeance? 

But frankly nothing that appears is going to please me about this strip other than 'THE END'. 

[Jim_Campbell]

* If anyone wishes to argue that ten year olds would buy an adventure comic if only someone published such a title, I have no more factual basis for refuting that assertion than there is evidence to support that assertion.

WH Smith took 10,000 copies of the first issue of STRIP when it re-launched for the high street with Volume 2. I don't have numbers for subs, dedicated comic stores, and smaller high street distributors, but I'd be surprised if the total print run wasn't around the 15K mark… and that was a title with no advertising budget and no brand recognition.

Everyone involved knew what needed to happen from there: the comic needed to come out with metronomic regularity, and everyone went the extra mile to make sure that happened. Everyone except the publisher.

Seven issues were delivered on time, on spec, thanks to a lot of people doing a lot of extra work for little or no money. We believed it would work… but sadly, we'll never know, thanks to the towering incompetence of one man (assisted by the more mundane incompetence of another, supposedly drafted in to help with the first).

If I had a million quid, I'd give it a go myself. :-/

[Woolly]

The comic doesn't have a future if it doesn't attract new readers. Where do you think they're going to come from?

As Frank says, new readers are the important bit. That doesn't necessarily mean 2000AD has to aim itself at 12 year olds again.
I'd argue that there are more adults who used to read comics than there are kids who are open to reading comics these days.
Potentially a bigger audience if that market can be tapped into?

That said, I appreciate that if no kids are reading comics, the chances of said kids reading comics as adults is... limited.

Not really sure what my point is, now I think about it... 

[Woolly]

Great cover by Lynch and as the banner title is unreadable, it's a good time to ditch it.

Must say, I've grown to love the banner. I vote to keep it!

[Frank]

I'd argue that there are more adults who used to read comics than there are kids who are open to reading comics these days

100,000 of whom used to read the Galaxy's Greatest every week.*

That said, I appreciate that if no kids are reading comics, the chances of said kids reading comics as adults is... limited

I'm not sure one comic can transform the fortunes of a medium**. Kids didn't suddenly stop buying comics in 1991 because they were crap - John Wagner makes the point that readership has been in an irreversible decline ever since he joined the industry, in the late sixties. ***

You don't need new customers entering the market to increase market share, though.

The latest Rajar figures show Radio Four has increased its audience by around half a million, but Da Yoot haven't started listening to John Humphrys on the school bus. Middle aged listeners, radicalised by Facebook and Brexit, have swapped Chris Evans and GMTV for Today.


* ... and the 100,000 who were reading when The Horned God took its bow weren't the same 100,000 who read the debut of the Angel gang.

** The same downward trend hit US comic companies over the same interval, and continues today. Early issues of rebooted titles still sell well, but the average Marvel or DC comic reaches a similar proportion of the US population as 2000ad does in the UK. And that's with $300 million adverts for their products hitting screens every six months.

*** The reasons for said decline are numerous, but telly, home video, and then games seem the most likely thieves of pocket money and time.

[JUDGE BURNS]

Right guys.....is there anyone else in the cal-hab district ( Ayrshire division ) having mega problems with the deliveries of the weekly prog and the monthly meg?

I am sick to the back teeth of the local posties delivering my subscription progs 4, 5 or even 6 days late every week now !!!

Its now Friday and I am still awaiting prog 2043.  tomorrow I should have the magazine and prog 2044 but I doubt it.  As I work all day I am very rarely home when the postie arrives , which can be from 12 noon to 4 pm, so I am told.

So does anyone else have issues with the Royal Mail ???   I would be interested to know  Cheers  rant over.

Judge Burns  going back on patrol >>>>

I share your pain.

I am also in Ayrshire - mentioned before on other Prog threads.  I'd say I get 1 out of every 4 Progs on the Saturday, if I'm lucky, and it's slowly but surely worsening.

I got in touch with the ever helpful new(ish) sub-bot Oliver on Wednesday (nothing riles more than not having a sub Prog even by the newsstand release day!) and he sent me my Prog 2043 on Thursday, 1st class so it arrived yesterday - still no sign of the original item though?!

He says the Progs are sent out Thursday/Friday before release but they do not have any control beyond that point.  My point is that the Prog used to arrive 99% of the time on the Saturday and more importantly it was something TO LOOK FORWARD TO.

I got in touch with Royal Mail earlier in the year and they said it is for the sender to bring up any delivery issues, but then the Prog is sent 2nd class, so it is only their "aim" to deliver in 2 to 3 working days (do they even count Saturday as a "working" day?  It would certainly be interesting to see the delivery targets and actual records of the Kilmarnock office, never mind our local one!).

I mean, just what are they doing with them?  My regular postie is on holiday this week so I just put this one down to the random postie shoving it through the wrong door, but yours too?  Hmmm.

My sub runs out with the new Meg and Prog 2048 and I'm afraid that's it for subbing for me after a great many years.  I'd rather just get it from WH Smiths on the Wednesday (where I'm sure it will be 99% of the time) so that I can once again have something TO LOOK FORWARD TO!

...instead of perpetual disappointment...  I know it may seem silly, or pedantic, but this last year subbing with the crappy postal service has sullied my enjoyment of the Prog slightly.

UPDATE on late deliveries,  finally tracked down my regular postie ( very reliable this one ) he says any Ayrshire post come via the KILMARNOCK depot, which receives it from the Glasgow depot, So the Ayrshire delays seem to be coming from Kilmarnock. I am awaiting a response from their chief postie for a reply. will update when I hear of anything.

[sheridan]

* The question of whether 2000ad should try and defy the exodus of small people from print has bedevilled the reigns of at least 5 Thargs. By the time Fading Of The Light saw print, the vast majority of readers held driving licences; by the time Diggle-Tharg decided to concentrate on shoring up the base, most readers had mortgages. I thought the matter was settled.

Missed this earlier as the font was too small to read on the computer I was on at the time - I've been reading 2000AD since I was eighth and at no time have held a driving licence or a mortgage.  Just saying...

[user2000]

Right guys.....is there anyone else in the cal-hab district ( Ayrshire division ) having mega problems with the deliveries of the weekly prog and the monthly meg?

I am sick to the back teeth of the local posties delivering my subscription progs 4, 5 or even 6 days late every week now !!!

Its now Friday and I am still awaiting prog 2043.  tomorrow I should have the magazine and prog 2044 but I doubt it.  As I work all day I am very rarely home when the postie arrives , which can be from 12 noon to 4 pm, so I am told.

So does anyone else have issues with the Royal Mail ???   I would be interested to know  Cheers  rant over.

Judge Burns  going back on patrol >>>>

I share your pain.

I am also in Ayrshire - mentioned before on other Prog threads.  I'd say I get 1 out of every 4 Progs on the Saturday, if I'm lucky, and it's slowly but surely worsening.

I got in touch with the ever helpful new(ish) sub-bot Oliver on Wednesday (nothing riles more than not having a sub Prog even by the newsstand release day!) and he sent me my Prog 2043 on Thursday, 1st class so it arrived yesterday - still no sign of the original item though?!

He says the Progs are sent out Thursday/Friday before release but they do not have any control beyond that point.  My point is that the Prog used to arrive 99% of the time on the Saturday and more importantly it was something TO LOOK FORWARD TO.

I got in touch with Royal Mail earlier in the year and they said it is for the sender to bring up any delivery issues, but then the Prog is sent 2nd class, so it is only their "aim" to deliver in 2 to 3 working days (do they even count Saturday as a "working" day?  It would certainly be interesting to see the delivery targets and actual records of the Kilmarnock office, never mind our local one!).

I mean, just what are they doing with them?  My regular postie is on holiday this week so I just put this one down to the random postie shoving it through the wrong door, but yours too?  Hmmm.

My sub runs out with the new Meg and Prog 2048 and I'm afraid that's it for subbing for me after a great many years.  I'd rather just get it from WH Smiths on the Wednesday (where I'm sure it will be 99% of the time) so that I can once again have something TO LOOK FORWARD TO!

...instead of perpetual disappointment...  I know it may seem silly, or pedantic, but this last year subbing with the crappy postal service has sullied my enjoyment of the Prog slightly.

UPDATE on late deliveries,  finally tracked down my regular postie ( very reliable this one ) he says any Ayrshire post come via the KILMARNOCK depot, which receives it from the Glasgow depot, So the Ayrshire delays seem to be coming from Kilmarnock. I am awaiting a response from their chief postie for a reply. will update when I hear of anything.

Yup, I had also heard that there are major probs being brushed under the carpet at Kilmarnock.  This has been going on for quite some time as well.

Didn't get last week prog til THURSDAY this week, so a day after I could have been enjoying it from WHS - the week before I got the prog and the meg on the Saturday.

No sign of Prog 2046 today of course.

I'm done with subbing anyway after all these years, 2 progs to go then I can look forward to getting my fix every Wednesday and not at some random time whenever the Royal Mail decide.

[Tiplodocus]

The other thing, I suppose, is that YOUNGER readers does not necessarily mean 8 to 12 years old.

A new reader could be twenty years younger than the current average readership age and still be a 16 to 20 year old who would (should) have no problem with adult tone, violence,nudity or sex. 

(But I can't recall if Tharg was specifically calling out for young children to start reading or just people younger than us old cart-horses).

[Frank]

The other thing, I suppose, is that YOUNGER readers does not necessarily mean 8 to 12 years old.

A new reader could be twenty years younger than the current average readership age and still be a 16 to 20 year old who would (should) have no problem with adult tone, violence,nudity or sex. 

(But I can't recall if Tharg was specifically calling out for young children to start reading or just people younger than us old cart-horses).

It was more a rhetorical flourish, in the course of a wider call to 'push the prog into the hands of your friends, your relations, your children, your children's children, and your children's children's ... well, you get the idea' (2041).