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Author Topic: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?  (Read 25452 times)

sintec

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #135 on: 09 October, 2020, 05:27:11 PM »
A female creator I was following suddenly started saying it wasn't cool to send her rape threats or say that you hope the breast cancer kills her.  She literally tweets about nothing else now except her far left political agenda and it just came out of nowhere.

I mean it's not cool to do either of those things. I imagine that by speaking out she's hoping to raise awareness that this toxic bullshit is still normal for many women working in creative industries and that that is not ok and she's fed up with quietly putting up with it. What to you "came out of nowhere" may well be a reaction to something that's been ongoing for her throughout her career.

I don't think holding the opinion that sending rape threats and death threats is not OK is a far left agenda. That's just expecting people to treat each other with a basic level of respect and decency.

repoman

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #136 on: 09 October, 2020, 05:56:16 PM »
You’re so wrong that I don’t know where to start. Are you trolling?



I believe fully in equality and fairness and I've never knowingly oppressed a person because of their gender, race or sexuality because that would be insane and twatty but I also think that certain art forms (music, film, comedy, comics) shouldn't have to pander to SJW values because instead of being a nice lefty thing, it feels more like a puritanical thing.

And as for my iphone comment, yes sure it's not a hard and fast rule and I'm making a generalisation but there is definitely a sense that if you're young and you want to be outraged, then picking a subject to be outraged about is pretty easy these days even if you aren't directly affected by it.  It just feels all a bit Mary Whitehouse to me.  That was my point.

But here's the thing, no matter how you phrase it (and I've tried to be moderate and considered), if you take a stance that isn't fully on SJW Twitter compatible, you get weird responses like the above.  I mean this post is probably pissing one of you off now, not that that is my intention.

So, in answer to the topic subject line.  No, we're not.  I guess.   

Funt Solo

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #137 on: 09 October, 2020, 05:59:52 PM »
A female creator I was following suddenly started saying it wasn't cool to send her rape threats or say that you hope the breast cancer kills her.  She literally tweets about nothing else now except her far left political agenda and it just came out of nowhere.

I mean it's not cool to do either of those things. I imagine that by speaking out she's hoping to raise awareness that this toxic bullshit is still normal for many women working in creative industries and that that is not ok and she's fed up with quietly putting up with it. What to you "came out of nowhere" may well be a reaction to something that's been ongoing for her throughout her career.

I don't think holding the opinion that sending rape threats and death threats is not OK is a far left agenda. That's just expecting people to treat each other with a basic level of respect and decency.

I feel like I've reached a milestone in my forum-life in realizing that Professor Bear was doing some satire there. (Usually it's me that doesn't catch on.)
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Funt Solo

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #138 on: 09 October, 2020, 06:08:46 PM »
You’re so wrong that I don’t know where to start. Are you trolling?
So, in answer to the topic subject line.  No, we're not.  I guess.

I think you absolutely are - it's just that it felt a bit troll-like, that's all. Like, you keep using the blanket term SJW, which is pejorative. It's a text stick with which to beat people.

The idea that if you support BLM you have to be black, or maybe be white but under a certain income bracket is, frankly, a fucking weird stance to take. And your continued supposition that anyone who supports BLM (that's white and over a certain income bracket) is the equivalent of a puritanical OAP from decades ago is also weird. It doesn't make any sense.

What the fuck has Mary Whitehouse got to do with folk complaining about violent and oppressive racism? (That's rhetorical, of course, because there's no link.)
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sintec

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #139 on: 09 October, 2020, 07:18:27 PM »
I feel like I've reached a milestone in my forum-life in realizing that Professor Bear was doing some satire there. (Usually it's me that doesn't catch on.)

Entirely possible my sarcasm/satire filter is broken.

radiator

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #140 on: 09 October, 2020, 07:30:13 PM »
You’re so wrong that I don’t know where to start. Are you trolling?



I believe fully in equality and fairness and I've never knowingly oppressed a person because of their gender, race or sexuality because that would be insane and twatty but I also think that certain art forms (music, film, comedy, comics) shouldn't have to pander to SJW values because instead of being a nice lefty thing, it feels more like a puritanical thing.

Pandering and puritanical in what way?

Do you mean representation? Like people getting bent out of shape that the new Star Wars movies are a bit more diverse in terms of cast and put a woman front and center?

Something worth remembering is that while it's political to promote diversity, doing the opposite - not going out of your way to be inclusive and have representation - is every bit as political and 'pandering' an act.
« Last Edit: 09 October, 2020, 07:32:20 PM by radiator »

Modern Panther

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #141 on: 09 October, 2020, 07:32:33 PM »
What are the "SJW values" that artists have to pander to, beyond not being hateful to minority groups and women?

Even being hateful, although out of fashion, is so welcomed by a vocal minority of consumers that there's definite money to be made in the field.
 Swathes of bigots make a fortune by telling their audiences "I'm not allowed to say this...the Woke will come after me.".

IndigoPrime

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #142 on: 09 October, 2020, 07:53:45 PM »
Still amazes me that there are people who think "you have an iPhone therefore you cannot be poor or a member of an oppressed group" is a thing that should be said out loud.
The same kind of idiots who have a go at people on benefits having the sheer audacity to own a “flatscreen TV”, as if 1) you can actually get CRTs for non-silly money these days, and 2) anyone with little shouldn’t have any entertainment at all. I mean, come on.

certain art forms (music, film, comedy, comics) shouldn't have to pander to SJW values because instead of being a nice lefty thing, it feels more like a puritanical thing
It’s a good job that this literally doesn’t happen then.

repoman

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #143 on: 09 October, 2020, 10:27:48 PM »
Quote
It’s a good job that this literally doesn’t happen then.

Great! 

I guess there isn't a conversation to be had.  It's all fine then. :)

repoman

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #144 on: 09 October, 2020, 11:41:36 PM »
Ah sorry.  That was snippy.

This is too emotive a topic.  It is difficult because a discussion can't really be had, it's too polarising.

Mister Pops

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #145 on: 09 October, 2020, 11:51:57 PM »
...  It is difficult because a discussion can't really be had...

I think the ten pages and premise of this thread say otherwise.
« Last Edit: 09 October, 2020, 11:53:59 PM by Mister Pops »
You may quote me on that.

sintec

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #146 on: 09 October, 2020, 11:57:32 PM »
certain art forms (music, film, comedy, comics) shouldn't have to pander to SJW values because instead of being a nice lefty thing, it feels more like a puritanical thing.

I think this is actually the result of these artforms being commodified by huge corporate multi-nationals. The kind of organisations that subject everything to focus groups and are trying to second guess what'll make them the most $s. Imo that's more the result of changes in how we consume media and the consolidation of the companies providing it than it is a concerted campaign by Social Justice Warriors. There's plenty of exciting, controversial art/film/music/comedy out there still but you have to actively hunt it down. The days of the big pop culture spectacle are waning.

But here's the thing, no matter how you phrase it (and I've tried to be moderate and considered), if you take a stance that isn't fully on SJW Twitter compatible, you get weird responses like the above.   

Twitter does seem to be the home of the perpetually offended - from both sides of almost any argument. I find it best to just avoid that shit show entirely by paying it as little attention as possible. From my perspective it seems to be populated by a small but very vocal miniority of society who just like to shout at each other.

On the flip side I have been frustrated by some discussions in a lockdown film group I've been part of. Films picks from the 70s & 80s have resulted in some push back from those offended by the language/morals of the era. There's a bit of me that wants to point out that it's not like we're forcing Roy Chubby Brown or Jim Davidson on them. If The Breakfast Club upsets them then there's huge swathes of my music/book/art/comic collection that it's probably best they go nowhere near. But it's not like they're taking any of that media away from me, I'm still free to enjoy that art and much of it is more available than ever if you seek it out.

Mister Pops

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #147 on: 10 October, 2020, 12:05:01 AM »
certain art forms (music, film, comedy, comics) shouldn't have to pander to SJW values because instead of being a nice lefty thing, it feels more like a puritanical thing
It’s a good job that this literally doesn’t happen then.

But it does. SJW is a translation of 中國共產黨, yes?
You may quote me on that.

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #148 on: 10 October, 2020, 12:26:53 AM »
Who decided social justice was a bad thing anyway?  Genuinely curious.  Is social INjustice considered something worth preserving?
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JamesC

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #149 on: 10 October, 2020, 07:30:13 AM »
A female creator I was following suddenly started saying it wasn't cool to send her rape threats or say that you hope the breast cancer kills her. 

As for Jim Davidson, I'm not sure he has ever been anything other than "outdated, s**** and as such largely ignored" ... Granted he's had a big following amongst certain sections of the army but considering that the intellectual calibre of those sections is slightly smaller than that of their weaponry that really isn't saying much.

It might be worth noting that Jim Davidson won New Faces - the Britain's Got Talent of its day - with an act about his black mate, 'Chalky'. He was absolutely 100% mainstream in the late 70s/early 80s. Even in the 90s he was presenting Big Break and The Generation Game as one of the BBCs highest paid stars. This translated to bums-on-seats at his annual season-long residency at the theatre in Great Yarmouth. His live show was famously racist and sexist (and he had a reputation for being very 'hands on' with the dancers, and as being a surly drunk in the bar after the show). You couldn't help but feel that the BBC (and by extension, the establishment) was endorsing him.