Prog 2381: A grizzly fate

[Funt Solo]

I'm not sure that's how the creators see things though.

I'd be fascinated to hear what the writer was aiming for.

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I have wondered if Moon has to die in order for Logan and Dredd's relationship now to become even more frayed.

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Regarding plot armor - it's difficult to have any enjoyment in any story, I suspect, if one is focused too strongly on that aspect of things. And it applies to most tales.  Folk used to complain about Alpha flashbacks on the basis that there was no threat to the character - but most SD stories one would assume that Johnny had plot armor. Well, right up until they killed him, anyway.

I suppose my point is that I have to believe that Dredd is killable in order to have buy-in for the dramatic tension of any given story. (But the same is true of Tyranny Rex, even though a bunch of her just died, or Feral & Foe, or Gene the Hackman, or Sin-Dex, even though one of them appears to be sort of dead etc.)

[IndigoPrime]

I think it's more that the comic's been saying Dredd is old for a very long time now. Bit of a recurring theme. So for me that lacks impact. What did have impact: Dredd vs Shako. I was happily caught up in the action. As for Moon having to die to push the narrative of male protagonists... I really hope not.

[Funt Solo]

It is a recurring theme, yes. Ever since tight boots, right? And, I know, fridging be bad. (I sometimes wonder about catching myself on, though, when another black side character dies and I face palm. Like, are black side characters *not* allowed to die? Anyway - different debate.)

[IndigoPrime]

I don't think any judge should be safe, nor any type of character. I know Wagner has in the past said he wasn't keen on women coming to harm in his strips. That wouldn't really make any sense today. But killing off women to drive the narrative of men is not good. (Not that I'm saying that's what's happened here, note.)

Tight boots was when the doubts crept in. And certainly by the period before Necropolis there had been plenty of references to Dredd getting on a bit. So 35 years later, he must be super creaky.

[JudgeJudi]

They moved away from Dredd is too old for a while because really where can it go? Repetitive stories about being too old or be gets a new clone body.

Overall I was not impressed with the story as the set-up suggested more than what we got and maybe it leads into something else but if it doesn't it's not great.

[Richard]

I have wondered if Moon has to die in order for Logan and Dredd's relationship now to become even more frayed.

I don't want to read another storyline about Dredd having a difficult relationship with another chief judge, we had that already with McGruder and Hershey.

[Funt Solo]

And Cal, and how!

[IndigoPrime]

I don't want to read another storyline about Dredd having a difficult relationship with another chief judge, we had that already with McGruder and Hershey.

Indeed, and there comes a time where he really does have to shit of get off the pot.

[Trooper McFad]

On the Dredd story and I'm just spit balling here:

Dredd in a cold inhospitable environment (see MC1)
The thing that owns this environment is the biggest baddest beast/bear (see Dredd)
Once the Bear has your scent there's no getting away (see Dredd)
Someone he has respect for dies- or is she!(see Hershey or anyone from Dredds past)
Finally Dredd face's down the bear/Dredd with the final speech bubbles "Death's coming Arcto's/Dredd" and "it won't be long now"!!!!
Now it is just spit balling but if this is a hint at a larger arc in the future to say end tooth's 50th and the final demise of Dredd and usher in a new era that would be something.

Or do I have too much time on my hands and talking utter pish 😂😂😂

[IndigoPrime]

Unless 2000 AD itself is ending (and the Meg too), there's no way in hell the comic kills off its key IP.

[broodblik]

Unless 2000 AD itself is ending (and the Meg too), there's no way in hell the comic kills off its key IP.

But that is why you have the meg, why not create an alternative path story where Dredd does get killed off

[IndigoPrime]

I mean, as an Elseworlds in the Meg, maybe. But if Dredd is killed off in 2000 AD, why would you continue the strip? And at that point, you've lost the anchor for your comic. That doesn't tend to benefit anthology comics, on the whole. (Even The Phoenix suffers from this – my kid is not thrilled when there's no Bunny vs Monkey, even though that comic doesn't have a defined 'main' strip.)

So a what-if could work. But even then, what's it going to tell us? That MC1 would be screwed without Dredd, even though he's ultimately largely responsible for the city being in bits? You couldn't really get away with 'oh, and things are better now', or that erodes the entire history of a 45+ year strip. Beyond the shock and a bit of news, I just can't see the value in this. And 2000 AD – on the whole – has been against resurrections*, and so would be unlikely to do a Marvel/DC and a month later go 'Dredd got better now'.

* And, yes, I know Dredd got shot through the head, etc. But it's not like the comic has properly killed Dredd off entirely and then later on said 'he's fine'. The few times the comic has done that with major or even supporting characters, it's not exactly gone down well.

[Barrington Boots]

I don't want to read another storyline about Dredd having a difficult relationship with another chief judge, we had that already with McGruder and Hershey.

Definitely this.
Dredd's plot armour is, imo, indisputable. That's fine - you could say the same about Batman. I think the issue is partly that 2000ad has tried to be more 'consequences-matter' in its storytelling instead of endlessly recycling Mean Machine and so on (see Judge Death for an example where this does happen, and not for the better). But its very difficult to do that when you have a character like Dredd who really encapsulates the comic to the wider world.

The other half of the issue I suspect is that the bulk of us here on the forum are older readers, so very invested, and we've kind of seen it all before - so we're anxious for tales that do shift the status quo, but realistically that won't happen to any major degree: chief judges may change, supporting characters will die, but things won't really move along. Chaos Day was the best chance for that. It's the same reason Dredd aged up to a certain point and then stopped.

It must be really difficult, as a writer, to balance stuff like this.

[nxylas]

Unless 2000 AD itself is ending (and the Meg too), there's no way in hell the comic kills off its key IP.

They can always reboot. They killed off Superman, and James Bond. Dredd is the outlier in not having had a continuity reset in nearly 50 years.

[norton canes]

I can see them maybe killing Dredd off for the 50th (it would certainly be a suitable epic selling point) and replacing him with a(nother) clone, who to all intents and purposes would continue to be Dredd (but would have to learn the ropes all over again).

The Dredd story reminded me a little of the Steven Spielberg movie Duel - a thrilling chase with, as I recall (it's a long time since I've seen it), a somewhat anticlimactic ending

Very much so, great spot. And do we actually know where the protagonist in Duel is going? It's enough for the movie that he's just 'on a journey' but I think 'R&TWT&C' needed a little more context, especially given the prologue. Did it benefit from not having a simple panel at the start saying something like 'En route to a routine check on MC1's northern border facilities, Dredd's flight hits trouble..'? I love a dislocated narrative as much as the next cit but if that's what Rend and Tear... (sorry, I'm done with the acronym) was aiming for then the prologue at the Academy was a bit incongruous. Perhaps the Williams droid was asked to add that because starting the story proper in a 'jumping on' prog would have presented new readers with a leap to far? It also struck me that perhaps Tharg managed to secure the services of R. M. Guéra at short notice, and Rob Williams had to cook up a story post-haste?

And how does Dredd now get back home? All will become clear, I'm sure.

Oh and everything else this week was brilliant.