The Political Thread

[The Legendary Shark]

No - the "I promise to pay the bearer..." is not a throwback phrase left over from the past; it is a current and relevant legal phrase.

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Who is the bearer? You are (or the person holding the note). Who is the "I"? The Governor of the Bank of England (not the Prime Minister, the Chancellor or even the Queen - just a non-elected bank manager).

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And it doesn't mention "Sterling" anywhere on my bank notes, only a certain number of pounds. It doesn't even tell me what I am promised pounds of (pounds of silver? Pounds of gold? Pounds of apples?). So the official money of the UK might be called pounds sterling but I bet you haven't got any.

[Richmond Clements]

OK, a UK £10 is real money.

Stating something as fact does not make it so.

[Proudhuff]

OK, a UK £10 is real money.

Stating something as fact does not make it so.

It does on the internet.

[Recrewt]

No - the "I promise to pay the bearer..." is not a throwback phrase left over from the past; it is a current and relevant legal phrase.

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Who is the bearer? You are (or the person holding the note). Who is the "I"? The Governor of the Bank of England (not the Prime Minister, the Chancellor or even the Queen - just a non-elected bank manager).

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And it doesn't mention "Sterling" anywhere on my bank notes, only a certain number of pounds. It doesn't even tell me what I am promised pounds of (pounds of silver? Pounds of gold? Pounds of apples?). So the official money of the UK might be called pounds sterling but I bet you haven't got any.

You are correct about the promise to pay the bearer but if you were to take that £10 note to the bank of england then they would pay you another £10.  They no longer convert it into gold. 

Pound sterling, commonly known simply as the pound is the official currency of the UK.  Yes, I do have some - I have a five pound note in my pocket right now.

OK, a UK £10 is real money.

Stating something as fact does not make it so.

True,  but I suggested earlier that Sharky have a look at the definition of money in the dictionary. 

From the Oxford English dictionary, definition of money:
"A current medium of exchange in the form of coins and banknotes; coins and banknotes collectively".

[Spikes]

Wish I'd bought some bitcoins as when they first came out though:  http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/oct/29/bitcoin-forgotten-currency-norway-oslo-home

...but it's not always good news with Bitcoins: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/27/hard-drive-bitcoin-landfill-site

Ah yes, caught this on the Jeremy Vine show today. Unlucky!

But this thread has become just the best over the last few days, or so - keep posting chaps 

[The Legendary Shark]

Okay, Recrewt, have it your way. If those 16 words you found in the OED adequately explains the entire complexity of this subject to you then you're a better man than me.

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Just don't go scratching your head when the economy starts collapsing because there's not enough 'money' in it.

[Recrewt]

Now Mr Shark, I do hope that nothing I have said has offended you.  To me, this is just like two blokes talking stuff over a pint in the pub.

[The Legendary Shark]

Not at all, Sir - this is a very difficult subject to grasp and even more difficult to explain. It took me almost a year to wrap my head around it at first and I'm aware that I'm not always the best person to explain it, what with my rabid ranting and raving and all.

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I'm not offended at all - just maybe a little frustrated with myself for struggling to make my points clearly enough.

[JamesC]

Question:

Should the Nigella Lawson / Saatchi story be on the BBC six o'clock news?

I'm in two minds about it. There's obviously public interest in it but it isn't in the public interest (if that makes sense). It doesn't seem to be a landmark, legislation changing legal case and there are no politicians or publicly accountable figures involved.
I guess I'm veering toward a viewpoint that the story shouldn't be included but part of me thinks that it would be so conspicuous in its absence that it seems silly not to report it.

[Tiplodocus]

Moose!

[The Legendary Shark]

So, we've done oil, extinctions, climate change and money - what next?

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How about the dangers of GM foods?


www.businessinsider.com/monsantos-roundup-and-resistant-corn-found-to-be-toxic-2012-9

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The link is to a French study (which, to be fair, has been criticised for using a breed of rat which is prone to cancer and for statistical errors) that fed rats Roundup and GM maize for two years - which is 15 months longer than the studies GM companies do.

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As far as I understand it, although genetic engineering sounds all very scientific and precise it is actually a rather hit-and-miss affair employing a 'gene gun'. Basically, the genes to be introduced to an existing organism are loaded into a kind of tiny blunderbuss and then fired at target DNA with the hopes that a) the genetic material survives the process and that b) the new genes end up in the correct part of the target DNA.

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Another criticism is the emotively titled 'killer gene' which companies like Monsanto put into the seeds they sell to prevent the crops grown from those seeds producing fertile seeds of their own on maturation. Quite apart from the horrendous economic impacts of such disgusting business practice ( www.globalresearch.ca/the-seeds-of-suicide-how-monsanto-destroys-farming ), what if these terminator genes 'get out'? Nature's been shuffling genes around for billions of years and we still don't know precisely how that happens.

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The following is a silly question but illustrates one of the concerns I have over GM crops very well: What if this terminator gene got into bees?

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[TordelBack]

I guess I'm veering toward a viewpoint that the story shouldn't be included but part of me thinks that it would be so conspicuous in its absence that it seems silly not to report it.

I'm afraid that's my thought too.  Saatchi is an odious fuck who should be in jail anyway, and Lawson is too gorgeous for words, but I still don't want to read about their private lives as exposed in court, or see why anyone should.  But the story is story in itself, so it'd be ridiculous for TV news to ignore it.

[Professor Bear]

The following is a silly question but illustrates one of the concerns I have over GM crops very well: What if this terminator gene got into bees?

Monsanto bought up the company in charge of investigating Monsanto's environmental impact on bee populations (no bullshit - look it up), so what would happen is this: we wouldn't know about it, and Monsanto would sue nature itself for stealing Monsanto's property.  I'm going by their past form, of course, where they've adopted a response to contaminating the environment with modified crops that is basically akin to someone wandering around a farm with a gun until it goes off and shoots someone in the farm next door, so that person complains about being shot so Monsanto sue that person for slandering them and then demand their bullet back.


Me, I think Monsanto are great.  Someone in charge of that company woke up one day and decided they didn't want to be a boring old capitalist any more, they wanted to be Cobra Commander, so now they come up with these crazy plans that are basically plots a 1980s cartoon supervillain would come up with.  There is literally no downside to Monsanto: either a multinational taskforce of heroes will be formed to defeat them, or the cockroaches (or the ants) get their turn.  Either way it's all gravy.

[The Legendary Shark]

Haven't seen the BBC today and RT hasn't mentioned Nigella. RT's been on about earthquakes in Texas caused by fraccing, a terrorist attack on the Russian embassy in Damascus, the fifth day of pro-EU trade protests in the Ukraine, the Thai prime minister surviving a vote of no confidence, the increase of child labour throughout Europe (including Russia, Bulgaria and the UK), the world's first working computer 3d printed gun and why it's been banned in Philadelphia, Putin condemning drone strikes, Cameron and a few other European leaders complaining about freedom of migration and the possibility of growing crops on the Moon - but of Nigella, not a word.

[Ancient Otter]

So, we've done oil, extinctions, climate change and money - what next?
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How about the dangers of GM foods?

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Ignoring the health concerns itself; ownership,copyright and food security is a huge issue with these. You know the Americans wrote a law into the Iraqi constitiution stating they cannot save seeds they bought (GMO or otherwise) and must buy new seeds each year?