The Political Thread

[Professor Bear]

it's not three decades of futile bloodshed, but I suppose it's a start.

[The Legendary Shark]

It doesn't matter if it's a vote, a peaceful protest or a riot - they are all simply methods of begging "authority" for the rights one is born with. They still reinforce the false idea that those "above us" get to decide what our rights are and when we can exercise them.
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The best example of this nonsense I can think of is US Prohibition laws. One day authority regarded alcohol as morally and legally acceptable and the next it decided that alcohol was morally and legally unacceptable. This change led to violence and murder as the "authorities" attempted to impose its new morality on everyone. Then, the next day, "authority" decided that alcohol was morally and legally acceptable again and the bloodshed ended. Prohibition is also a fine example of how legislation can be ignored to death for even the most "law abiding" of people understood that nobody has the right to prevent another from enjoying the odd scoop or three.
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Governments use rioting too, in a sense, but they employ targeted mini-riots and call them "enforcement".
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When it comes to violence I think a good rule of thumb is that it's only ever right to engage in violence in defence of yourself or another. Initiating violence for any other reason, and by anybody - no matter what costume they happen to be wearing - is wrong.

[Jimmy Baker's Assistant]

No-one is disputing that the Troubles were a totes bummer, though the enduring second-class status of various ethnic nationalist groups the world over might just as easily suggest that had things never progressed past the peaceful protest stage, there wouldn't have been any impetus to change things in Northern Ireland any more than for Native American or Australians.

I would strongly dispute the implication that the terrorist actions of both nationalists and loyalists contributed positively to the current political situation in Northern Ireland.

It's fantastic that both sides gave up violence and came together over the Good Friday agreement, but the Troubles were no blueprint for creating a cross-community utopia.

[Professor Bear]

both sides gave up violence and came together

ahahaha

I know further up the thread I advocated giving violent murder a go as a political philosophy, but that should not be taken as an endorsement of the Troubles, which I experienced first-hand and were a bit of a downer.
My observation is that we have... whatever it is we have right now because of how things played out, and some in similar situations tried a different tack and they didn't end up with the same thing as we did, so it can be equally claimed either way that the Troubles helped or hindered progress based on other examples of ethnic nationalist conflicts.

There's probably a soft-rock song that explains it better than I do, possibly in terms of a winding road whose destination is always fixed.

[ZenArcade]

The problem with riots is they tend generally involve a lot of hard rock(s). Z 

[Hawkmumbler]

The problem with riots is they tend generally involve a lot of hard rock(s). Z 

You'd be amazed how many of those rocks are thrown by police plants.

[ZenArcade]

Of that I don't know Hhawk...but as stated earlier by others: riot gives the 'powers that be' the perfect opportunity to demonize legitimate protest and as an intended by product, to increase their already well stocked arsenal of legislation and the means to enforce it. Z

[Hawkmumbler]

Well, the police would just say they will investigate themselves dur to such opperations, but they will only find themselves inocent.

[Jim_Campbell]

You'd be amazed how many of those rocks are thrown by police plants.

[Hawkmumbler]

"Mr Willson, how can you justify pulling a fire arm out on an unarmed child?"

'Shrugs shoulders' "I am Groot?"

[Professor Bear]

Well, the police would just say they will investigate themselves dur to such opperations, but they will only find themselves inocent.

"Oh my God!  That policeman just shot a child - someone call the police!"

[Ancient Otter]

Dead Kennedys had a good song about rioting - Riot

[The Legendary Shark]

And yet the telly seems to be full of piffle celebrating World Riot One and the rioter supreme of World Riot Two, Winnie, is one of our national heroes. Go figure.

[Dandontdare]

well, one bit of news has cheered me up - Andrew Mitchell has just lost his "plebgate" libel action and it's likely to cost him about £2m.

[The Legendary Shark]

It probably won't cost him anywhere near that much. Rich people sell "shares" in their legal defence. Investors chip in to pay the legal bills in the hopes of getting a percentage of the winnings, just like trading on the stock market.
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Doesn't this country just make you so proud?