The Political Thread

[vzzbux]

I am not poo pooing any questions raised.
Any event that has happened  raises questions which cannot directly be answered unless someone comes forward and says this is what we did and here is the direct evidence.

I just cannot believe that the US government was behind the 9/11 attack. That they would inflict the misery caused.
Am I not entitled to that opinion?

And yes I was joking about the Alien conspiracy unlike a lot of nut jobs, I just googled alien conspiracy 9/11.




V

[The Legendary Shark]

Did I say anything about the US Government being behind it? Imagining that the whole government, its people, processes and machinery were responsible for 9/11 is as outlandish as blaming aliens, Elvis or the Loch Ness Monster.

Also, questions cannot be answered unless they are asked. I don't blame you for this Vzzbux, far from it - but ask yourself how often you hear these questions explored in any serious way on the mainstream media. We've all been brought up to trust the tube (see the fantastic 1976 film Network - even more apt today than it was then).

And I don't place myself above all this - I'm as brainwashed by telly as the next person. It's just that I'm beginning to see through some of it and I know that others are, too. We could have such a great world, such great societies, if enough of us just started to wake up and actively reject the bullshit. Let's get the likes of Bush, Blair and Rumsfeld into an open court and investigate them properly. If they truly had nothing to do with this, I'd be the first to apologise to them. But if they were involved, at any level, I'd be the first to call for their lifetime incarceration.

[House of Usher]

Did I say anything about the US Government being behind it? Imagining that the whole government, its people, processes and machinery were responsible for 9/11 is as outlandish as blaming aliens, Elvis or the Loch Ness Monster.

Unless I am very much mistaken, that was precisely vzzbux's point.

This is precisely the kind of uneducated and offensive waffle that hampers real investigations, trivializes the disaster and truly shits on all the lives lost both on and as a result of 9/11.

What vzzbux said was no more offensive than claims that the American military/industrial complex did the attack itself and faked up terrorist involvement, which was the target of his sarcastic critique. He didn't waffle. He was concise and to the point.

[House of Usher]

Here are some of the questions surrounding 9/11 that I think have yet to be answered adequately:

Why was there thermite in the wtc rubble? http://www.911hardfacts.com/report_08.htm#sc

Testing residue from the beam and dust with an Electron Microprobe, Dr. Jones found compounds wholly consistent with thermite reactions - abundant Iron, Zinc, Sulfur, Manganese, Fluorine, and, perhaps most suspiciously, Barium, a highly toxic substance found in military grade explosives, not in building material, airplanes, or office supplies.

Iron, zinc, sulphur, manganese and fluorine are common elements used for all sorts of things, and iron, zinc and sulphur are even present in a lot of foods. Barium is used in rat poison. Barium-nickel alloy is used in car ignitions. Barium is also used in vacuum tubes, such as cathode ray television tubes, to round up stray gases, including oxygen, and in rubber manufacture, and coating electrodes of fluorescent lamps. It's also used as a radiocontrast agent for intestinal x-rays.

Jones' interests also extend to archaeometry, solar energy,[2][3] and, like many professors at BYU, archaeology and the Book of Mormon.[4] For example, he has sought radiocarbon dating evidence of the existence of pre-Columbian horses in the Americas,[5] and has interpreted archaeological evidence from the ancient Mayans as supporting his faith's belief that Jesus Christ visited America.[6]

[Richmond Clements]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842

[The Legendary Shark]

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/reply_to_popular_mechanics.htm

[Richmond Clements]

Sorry Shark, but this 9/1 conspiracy shit is just that- shit.

On balance, I'd rather take the word of popular mechanics on the melting point and the stresses on metal framed building than of some fucking internet nut.
These fucking people are an insult to every single fucking person who died in those buildings that day. Like it or not- there is an explanation that fits, it's just not the one that nutters who need to see something bigger, to have some big bogey man controlling their lives, like to see.

I've really tried to stay out of this debate, but this stuff is just so plain insulting to both the dead and to the intelligence of anyone with the ability to read a technical manual.

[The Legendary Shark]

Who's the internet nut of whom you speak?

I understand how frightening this subject is. The idea that the authorities are not telling the truth about such a horrific event is truly unthinkable - so, why think it?

[Eric Plumrose]

Shark, I would hazard a guess and say no amount of debunking will ever be enough for the Truth Movement, at least not the majority of. The same way most people of faith will always believe, no matter what that pesky thing called Science throws their way.

My question, then, is this: What exactly would it take? For you to actually consider the likelihood that there is and was no conspiracy?

[mogzilla]

go on then, who did 7/7? cia ,tony blair, al quaeda or elvis? i suppose the ira were made up too so someone could profit in government? the whole conspiracy thing is bollocks except the moon landings i'm sure i read somewhere the crew wold have been killed by the van allen(?) radiation belt???

[The Legendary Shark]

An open, free, public and international inquiry with the legal powers to force witnesses to appear, documents to be produced and evidence thoroughly investigated by independent experts. Not really a lot to ask, is it, given the lives that have been lost on the day and as a consequence?

[The Legendary Shark]

go on then, who did 7/7?

These guys, apparently:



(Image taken from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/uk/05/london_blasts/investigation/html/introduction.stm  and blown up (if you'll pardon the pun) by myself). Note the amazing ability of the middle/rear "bomber" to walk in front of a guard rail without actually walking in front of a guard rail.

[House of Usher]

Note the amazing ability of the middle/rear "bomber" to walk in front of a guard rail without actually walking in front of a guard rail.

?

[Richmond Clements]

Note the amazing ability of the middle/rear "bomber" to walk in front of a guard rail without actually walking in front of a guard rail.

Apart from the fact that he's not, of course. He clearly has his hands in his pockets.
Unless you're suggesting that this video was somehow and for some reason created using SFX?

[The Legendary Shark]

So far as I know, there is no cctv footage from 7/7 showing the bombers together at Luton. I may be wrong (7/7 isn't something I've really looked into in any great depth), but I seem to recall that only the above single frame was ever released from the day and location in question. There is moving cctv footage of the bombers at Luton, I think, but this comes from about a month before the attacks.