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Completely Self-absorbed Top 100 Comic Runs You Need to Read

Started by Colin YNWA, 29 October, 2023, 03:36:51 PM

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Colin YNWA

Quote from: Tjm86 on 05 April, 2024, 08:07:20 AMOne thing I've noticed since the pandemic is that graphic novel prices have risen quite a bit on the 2nd hand market.  Used to be that they were cheap as chips and easy to track down.  Now though, you see crazy prices being asked.

Some of this is the print runs towards the end of series.  That's not always the case though.  I do wonder how much of this is algorithms slowly pushing prices higher and higher.

From what I've seen trade paperpacks can often be pretty easy and cheap. I'm selling at a mart this weekend (Sheffield come buy my stuff - normally not listed here as the stuff I talk about here is the stuff I'm keeping damnit!) and you'll get all sorts of offers on trades. There are of course exceptions. Its the bigger hardcover, deluxe and omnibus type things that seem to go wild in price.

In part I think (and this is utter speculation) this is to do to how good they look on shelves. If you watch YouTube videos from comics folks they so often seem to be surrounded by shelves full of lovely hardcovers and omnibuses and it makes them seem so desirable... me I find them to bulky to read comfortably. I wonder if that's a factor. Why have long box after long box of floppies if you can have lovely neat looking collections on your shelves.

IndigoPrime

The omni thing always baffles me. I do prefer hardbacks myself, but the ideal size for me is a deluxe edition. So you get oversized art, but the book is still manageable. Omnis and library editions tend to be unwieldy, and so I go for those under special circumstances: Hellboy for the art; Usagi Yojimbo because those DH editions are just too gorgeous not to; a few Marvel omnis because the series in question weren't compiled any other way.

But, yes, some editions do skyrocket in price the second they're OOP. Try getting hold of a deluxe edition of Brubaker's The Fade Out right now, for example...

Barrington Boots

I have some huge deluxe Hellboy editions and they're absolutely glorious - massive pages for the art, look awesome on the shelf - but to read them you do need to either sit down at a big, clear table or potentially stand at a medieval style pulpit as they're far too unwieldy for reading on the sofa or in bed.

I'd no real knowledge of Liberty Meadows and my main Frank Cho exposure is cheesecakey Marvel covers, so this was an interesting read, thanks Colin - I assumed it was something that might have run in Heavy Metal rather than newspapers. That Calvin & Hobbes strip is delightful.
You're a dark horse, Boots.

Colin YNWA

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 05 April, 2024, 10:25:50 AMUsagi Yojimbo because those DH editions are just too gorgeous not to; a few Marvel omnis because the series in question weren't compiled any other way.

I've got the first four Usagi Yojimbo Sagas in paperback charging up my 'To Read' spreadsheet. I'm eying them nervously having just read the 'Complete Eightball' in a similar, but slightly smaller (I think) format and that was a little uncomfortable to read.

There's a bit of me wondering whether I need to just bite the bullet and start collecting the floppies (well from the start of the Dark Horse stuff - as any earlier is going to get expensive!) given how much I love what I've read to date...

...sigh... once again too damned many great comics...

Colin YNWA

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 05 April, 2024, 10:33:39 AMI have some huge deluxe Hellboy editions and they're absolutely glorious - massive pages for the art, look awesome on the shelf - but to read them you do need to either sit down at a big, clear table or potentially stand at a medieval style pulpit as they're far too unwieldy for reading on the sofa or in bed.

Anything that can't be read slumped on the couch is doing something wrong! Though the idea of a medival pulpit in the living room has a certain appeal!

Also I think I'm the only person in the world who didn't get on with Hellboy. I watch a YouTube video with various YouTubes selecting their fav Dark Horse titles (it was from their 35th Ann. year) and almost everyone either picked Hellboy OR said they hadn't cos they knew everyone else would!

AND only 'For the Love of Comics' picked Concrete. So full of wrong!

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 05 April, 2024, 10:33:39 AMI'd no real knowledge of Liberty Meadows and my main Frank Cho exposure is cheesecakey Marvel covers, so this was an interesting read, thanks Colin - I assumed it was something that might have run in Heavy Metal rather than newspapers. That Calvin & Hobbes strip is delightful.

Seriously try the free online daily strips - if you don't like it no harm. But if you enjoy them as much as I did...

Colin YNWA



I'll slip this one in before I go on me holidays. I might post next week. I might not. It'll depend on how the adventure away takes me!

Run down of top 100 - 133 -120

Run down of Top 100: 119 - 110

Run down of Top 100: 109 - 101

100 - Contract with God

99 - Elektra Assassin

98 - Plastic Man by Kyle Baker

97 - Mega Robo Bros

96 - Brass Sun

95 - Watchmen

94  - Madman

93 - Fourth World Saga

92 - Rasl

91 - Liberty Meadows (Part 1 at least this one had to be broken into 5 parts (and not cos I went on longer than normal before you say anything!)

Not on the List - From Hell

IndigoPrime

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 05 April, 2024, 02:01:10 PMThere's a bit of me wondering whether I need to just bite the bullet and start collecting the floppies (well from the start of the Dark Horse stuff - as any earlier is going to get expensive!) given how much I love what I've read to date...
Or you could buy my box of Usagi Yojimbo trades, which I still haven't got around to selling, and that are a complete run through to before the switch to IDW! :D

Looking at the terrifying pile of boxes in my office, I really need to start offloading
books again. I haven't sell anything for over a year now. Oops.

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 05 April, 2024, 02:06:02 PMAnything that can't be read slumped on the couch is doing something wrong!
For me, the Library Editions are just about OK. I've read those while lying on one of our sofas and kind of balancing the book on my legs/knees. It's not the best, but it's fine.

QuoteAlso I think I'm the only person in the world who didn't get on with Hellboy.
Hellboy is an odd one for me. I was utterly smitten with it in the early days. The artwork is gorgeous. And I loved its fairytale logic. That run in the Library Editions is one of my favourite of any comics I've read. But. Then I got sucked into BPRD, which started well and ended horribly. Beyond that, the universe expanded to a ludicrous degree.

It was impossible to keep up. Moreover, the focus was gone. Without Mignola's guiding hand, what you get is a little too random for me. Sometimes, it's fantastic. Other times... not so much. So while I used to immediately grab anything remotely Hellboy related, now I'm much more cautious. And the BPRD hardcovers are one more read away from going on the 'for sale' pile, even though I know if I did I'd never be able to buy them again in the future. (Those editions are hen's teeth rare.)

PsychoGoatee

Cool write up, I've been meaning to try Liberty Meadows sometime. In general I've just gotten back into reading newspaper comic strips after decades, trying some 80s Bloom County etc.

Blue Cactus

Just wanted to chip in and say Rasl is indeed really good, and the black and white version is gorgeous to look at.

Illyana


Tjm86

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 05 April, 2024, 08:26:18 AMFrom what I've seen trade paperpacks can often be pretty easy and cheap. I'm selling at a mart this weekend (Sheffield come buy my stuff - normally not listed here as the stuff I talk about here is the stuff I'm keeping damnit!) and you'll get all sorts of offers on trades. There are of course exceptions. Its the bigger hardcover, deluxe and omnibus type things that seem to go wild in price.

Bit of a slog from here in South Wales (having done it several times to visit my sister who lives in Loxley), otherwise I would ...

I think it does depend on what you're looking for, you're right.  Marvel Omnibuses tend to have odd runs / reprint patterns so they can be a bit crazy.  So Secret Wars 2 or Hickman's Avengers stuff can be bleeding daft in prices.  Others have gone through multiple reprints so are relatively sane.

Maybe my problem is that I'm looking for relatively (okay, possibly insanely) obscure stuff like IDW's reprints of the Star Trek Gold Key and TV21 strips or Titan's third Flash Gordon book.  Sort of stuff that didn't have a massive print run in the first place and has now dropped off the radar.  I've nearly completely Boom Studio's Do Android Dreams in hardback and that has been a challenge too.

What I find with conventions now is that they are so tied up with film / manga that they're not really worth the effort any more (especially when you've been collecting for a few decades and have insanely eclectic tastes).

AlexF

Have not read Liberty Meadows but anyone who loves Calvin & Hobbes as much as that can't be all bad!
On the cheesecake art thing, I definitely recall being actively put off by Cho's Marvel covers. Feels like a dare, sometimes, like 'you like sexy women, right? How about having them right on display on the cover of an action comic?. FEEL SHAME!'
-and for some reason, Cho's work always seems a bit more 'totally male fantasy' than e.g. Amanda Connor (queen of the Power Girl boob window) or indeed the much-admired Hernandez Brothers, who love busty and powerful women and are not shy of dabbling in actual porn comics. I wonder if they might appear in a future entry on the list...
-that said, I can stomach Cho's women far more than J Scott campbell, who seems to relish the back-breaking pose and weird pixie face style of superhero art.

Colin YNWA

Quote from: Tjm86 on 06 April, 2024, 04:45:06 PMMaybe my problem is that I'm looking for relatively (okay, possibly insanely) obscure stuff like IDW's reprints of the Star Trek Gold Key and TV21 strips or Titan's third Flash Gordon book.  Sort of stuff that didn't have a massive print run in the first place and has now dropped off the radar.  I've nearly completely Boom Studio's Do Android Dreams in hardback and that has been a challenge too.

Oh christ yeah that sort of stuff can be a mare to find once its gone. All helps generate the FOMO... the exact type of thing that meant based on comments here and a quick bit of research I've just won ALL 8 volumes of Goodnight Punpun in one go rather than try it out first!

Quote from: AlexF on 08 April, 2024, 12:43:59 PM-that said, I can stomach Cho's women far more than J Scott campbell, who seems to relish the back-breaking pose and weird pixie face style of superhero art.

Oh ain't that the truth. There's a number of artists who seem to do countless covers in that style and I really don't get on with it at all.

Its also interesting that I'm a lot less put off by Adam Hughes stuff than Cho's and I'm never quite sure why that is. I find Hughes work nearer Amanda Connor and while it can get a little sigh worthy it never quite puts me off as much as Cho's. There's something more... teenage giggles about Cho's work for me. Art huh so stupidly objective!

Quote from: Illyana on 06 April, 2024, 12:54:03 AMDuuuuuude. Beautiful writing!

Errr thank you, that's a lovely thing to say but I quite sure I don't deserve it. I don't even begin to think my writing as anything other than me sneezing things out of my brain in as painless way as possible. Given some of your bits I've read - I've read your Carrie Fisher piece don't forget! - you know how to write!

Colin YNWA

#433
PART 1

Not on the list - Krazy Cat

So while we're talking about newspaper strips I think this is a good time to explain a little as to why one of the strip widely regarded as one of the greatest, if not THE greatest of all time doesn't make the list. Join me as I just don't get



And we learn why it is okay not to love, or even particularly like one of the best regarded comic strips of all time.

Krazy Kat, or occasionally known as Krazy and Ignatz is an American newspaper strip that ran from 1913 to 1944 - yep a massively impressive run. Produced by George Herriman the series details the adventure of Krazy Kat of the title and his love for Ignatz, a mouse who he loves. Alas all Ignatz seems to want to do is throw bricks at Krazy's head. In Between the two is Officer Pupp, who loves Krazy and tries to stop Ignatz brick throwing antics.

For over 30 years.

Okay, okay it's clear that there is more to this series. A LOT more! Beyond the simple concept and absurdist humour there are layers of meaning and themes. The nature of love, the shifting nature of self and environment, lessons in life in general. It is widely regarded as the first serious 'art' comic. It plays gleefully with its language and the comic form, really experimenting with what can be done with the page and how the comic form can explore so much more than its simple outer dressing would suggest.

But look I don't get on with it so while I don't normally link to external pages and thoughts on a series in these 'not in' entries I think in this instance it's important as I know I'm missing a whole lot about what makes this comic so great and so important. For a better overview of the strip there's great these videos out there if you fancy, for example

Matttt has a brilliant examination of both the strip, its ideas and themes and very significantly the sad history of its creator George Herriman.

There's plenty more out there if you search but these two give a real favour of how well regarded these comics are and the ideas it plays with.

And I just don't get it, and to be honest that's fine, it's absolutely fine. I mean it's on me, it's clearly nothing to do with the quality of the work. What I'd like to explore is though is why that is and why that doesn't make me a bad reader of comics.

I first read Krazy Kat maybe 20 years ago when I picked up a lovely Taschen Books collection of the stories from a book seller who came into the Library I worked at the time. I was just getting back into comics but even then I was vaguely aware of Krazy Kat and how well it was regarded, so I snapped up the book with glee and excitedly read it... and it bounced right off me.
I couldn't break into the old world language and pattern of dialogue. The art, while having a certain charm, was rudimentary and didn't appeal to me at that time - I was mainly reading mainstream superhero stuff as I broke back into comics. Unlike Liberty Meadows which I was heavy into on that return to comics, its ideas were front and centre, they weren't straightforward. Its references are oblique and lost  to 2004(ish) Mr YNWA in the mists of time. I just wasn't ready for it.

Even though I got nothing from it I determined to keep it. After all, even then I knew I should like it, I'd heard of it even back in the day before my wilderness years. I'd keep it and return to it. Which I did maybe 10 years later. I was trimming down my collection... or realistically getting rid of old stuff to allow space for new stuff after moving house. I'd been back into comics for 10 years. My reading was starting to shift again so surely this time I was ready for it.

Nope.

Nope.

Once again it bounced off me. Maybe for the same reasons, it certainly felt like the same reasons. I could now see more in the art. It was undoubtedly foundational for sure, but in being foundational I could see works that had built on those foundations and built better. The language and themes still felt so of a bygone age... well cos it was from a bygone again so no real surprise there I guess. Again I wanted to like it, possibly even more so I thought my reading had developed so this time surely... but nope my reaction was much the same.

This time I decided I didn't have to be a slave to my desire to like it. If I didn't like it, I didn't like it, was trimming down and so it had to go and go and it did - very readily I should note folks who got on with it fought long and hard over it on an ebay auction site... they new better than me!

Or did they. It really doesn't matter that I don't like it. I come to reading with my needs and my expectations and however much smarter, more comic 'literate' folks love this stuff doesn't mean I should or I'm any less of a reader for not liking it. It didn't meet my needs. On my second read I do wonder if that in part was shaped by my initial reaction. That first impressions count and my hadn't been positive and maybe that was lodged in my mind. I'm not sure as I've returned to numerous comics over the years, as I've changed as a person and so reader, and liked stuff more, or often less. So I think I can re-read things with an open mind and reevaluate. I just think that I'm immune to the charms, wit and insight of Krazy Kat.

In part I think that might be as it does feel so routed in its time. It feels odd and inaccessible to me. I get this with a lot of classic fiction. I don't get on with Charles Dicken, Bronte, well pretty much any prose literature before the 21st century (Mark Twain being a notable exception, there are less examples as well). Sometimes the style of a period, the thought process that went into things, the insights that feel so universal to others, or at least the way they are expressed, just don't work for an individual reader. That is the situation with Krazy Kat and me.

It's not the ideas and themes I don't get per say, that others do see and relish, it's the execution that doesn't allow me to see those themes and ideas clearly in the work. There will be exceptions we will get to much later in this list where the things I look for aren't obscured for me by the passage of time. 

Colin YNWA

PART 2

I had a similar, but different experience with E.C. Segar's Popeye. I loved it when I first read it in the giant volumes Fantagraphics put out a few years ago. But after burning bright I realised I was running out of steam and quickly got bored. I quickly exhausted the things I could get from it. With Krazy Kat I didn't even get that far. This leads me to another thought that makes me tempted to give it another go.

In one a video I watched in the series Jim Rugg mentions that we can make the mistake of reading these old strips, once presented as snippets daily, in great gulps now as they are collected in large lovely volumes we want to read in one go. That's not how these comics were designed to be read. The slow pace of the one strip a day is built into the design and repetition of the ideas (as I see them). Instead Rugg suggests even in these bumper volumes we should ration ourselves, read a page or two a day. Allow that to sit and settle in our minds before charging ahead. Read them slower, as intended and that might enrich the experience.

That idea appeals to me. I think I should maybe give it another go. Try again, after all there's clearly a heck of a lot here to be loved. Then again maybe I should try to force it. It's okay not to get on with comics other, many others, see as a classic. If it doesn't present ideas, even if you might like these ideas - or the idea of those ideas... I'm stretching this aren't I, even if you might like the themes others see in it if it's not presented in a way that allows you as a reader to easily get to, or in a way that challenges you to get to them in a way that's enjoyable. That's fine, that's okay. We can't and shouldn't all like the same things and sometimes however much you might want to love a series its best just to shrug, except it's not for you and move on. There's far too many great comics out to burn too much energy liking something just because you feel you should, or folks you respect do. They aren't you, aren't seeking the same things , don't have the same reference points or experience to bring to their reading so there is no reason to expect to like the same stuff.

To do otherwise is just smacking yourself on the back of your head with a brick!