The Political Thread

[von Boom]

Nope, I see absolutely no parallels between the strangely-hued, monasyllabic monster which is fuelled by rage and destroys everything in its path, and the Hulk.

[Funt Solo]

[IAMTHESYSTEM]

You can't have a king in America, and that's what the Trumpster is still trying to achieve, so his demise is something to feel satisfaction over. I doubt Trump will go quietly or if he does, it will be in the dead of night by the White House's backdoor, which would be a fitting enough judgement on his term of office.

[IndigoPrime]

I'm not finding much satisfaction in the GOP trying to engineer a coup in plain sight and people in the US hand-waving it away. We have prominent GOP people very strongly hinting that, hey, the electors should just reinstall Trump. And even if they don't succeed in that, they will have painted the incoming administration as illegitimate and normalised the notion that only votes for the GOP are valid. This is straight-up authoritarianism. The USA is on the brink right now, even though Biden won.

[Jim_Campbell]

I'm not finding much satisfaction in the GOP trying to engineer a coup in plain sight and people in the US hand-waving it away. We have prominent GOP people very strongly hinting that, hey, the electors should just reinstall Trump. And even if they don't succeed in that, they will have painted the incoming administration as illegitimate and normalised the notion that only votes for the GOP are valid. This is straight-up authoritarianism. The USA is on the brink right now, even though Biden won.

There is literally no legal path for Trump to retain power. Biden's margins are too wide to be overturned by recounts. The electors can't be instructed to overturn the vote in their states — there is a legal means for this, but it has to be legislated for prior to the election, and no challenge on the basis of voter fraud will succeed because there is literally no evidence for it.

Republicans privately accept that Trump is going to have to go, and the simple operation of US law means that Trump automatically ceases to be president on Jan 20th regardless of what he says or does. The thing is, the Republican senators and congressmen won't speak out because they've shackled their traditional support to Trump and they're all terrified that he will destroy their voter base in their own states by tweeting against them. Spineless? Yes. Supine? Yes. But that leads us on to...

...the only pathway for Trump to retain power is a literal coup. He's alienated the CIA, the FBI, and all the military top brass. Even the military rank and file didn't vote for him in the sort of numbers they normally break for Republicans. I can't see these fawning cowards in the GOP developing the spine for an actual coup.

At the end of the day, if Trump refuses to leave the White House, Biden can requisition Mar A Lago by executive order and run the government from there if he wants to.

Which is not to say that this is not all incredibly dangerous — Trump is radicalising his base even further and I don't think that the 30-odd% of the US that will support him no matter what will ever come back. It's time to put a stop to this "how can the Democrats reach out to Trump supporters" shit that's filling editorials in the US and here, because the short answer is: "You can't. Focus on the people you can reach."

[TordelBack]

You can't have a king in America...

That's what they said to Octavian, right before 500 years of the Republic came crashing down at Actium.

But I agree, for all its oddities, Americans are almost depressingly proud of their democracy, and I honestly don't believe more than a tiny fraction will put up with this nonsense. It's just a tactic of using up the last of Trump I  to build up resentment for 2  and 4 years time, with no regard for the collateral damage.

[Rately]

I'm not finding much satisfaction in the GOP trying to engineer a coup in plain sight and people in the US hand-waving it away. We have prominent GOP people very strongly hinting that, hey, the electors should just reinstall Trump. And even if they don't succeed in that, they will have painted the incoming administration as illegitimate and normalised the notion that only votes for the GOP are valid. This is straight-up authoritarianism. The USA is on the brink right now, even though Biden won.

There is literally no legal path for Trump to retain power. Biden's margins are too wide to be overturned by recounts. The electors can't be instructed to overturn the vote in their states — there is a legal means for this, but it has to be legislated for prior to the election, and no challenge on the basis of voter fraud will succeed because there is literally no evidence for it.

Republicans privately accept that Trump is going to have to go, and the simple operation of US law means that Trump automatically ceases to be president on Jan 20th regardless of what he says or does. The thing is, the Republican senators and congressmen won't speak out because they've shackled their traditional support to Trump and they're all terrified that he will destroy their voter base in their own states by tweeting against them. Spineless? Yes. Supine? Yes. But that leads us on to...

...the only pathway for Trump to retain power is a literal coup. He's alienated the CIA, the FBI, and all the military top brass. Even the military rank and file didn't vote for him in the sort of numbers they normally break for Republicans. I can't see these fawning cowards in the GOP developing the spine for an actual coup.

At the end of the day, if Trump refuses to leave the White House, Biden can requisition Mar A Lago by executive order and run the government from there if he wants to.

Which is not to say that this is not all incredibly dangerous — Trump is radicalising his base even further and I don't think that the 30-odd% of the US that will support him no matter what will ever come back. It's time to put a stop to this "how can the Democrats reach out to Trump supporters" shit that's filling editorials in the US and here, because the short answer is: "You can't. Focus on the people you can reach."

This thing of reaching across the floor... they don't deserve it. They don't deserve any decency or respect, and i'm reading that the Republican Party is willing to string Trump along till the Senate run-offs in January, Then run him out. It's just a ruse to hold Trumps base.

They have no idea what damage they are doing to themselves, their  Party and their Country.

Mind you, the thought of Trump having to be forcibly evicted come January 20th isn't beyond the realms of possibility, wouldn't be surprised if he has a Reality show up and running by then.

[IndigoPrime]

There is literally no legal path for Trump to retain power.

This is true. But even Snopes states the following: "That said, the law is only relevant to the extent that is it enforceable. If Republican-dominated legislatures were determined to find excuses for ignoring their states' election results, a Republican-controlled Senate were willing to facilitate the scheme, and a conservative judiciary were compliant in upholding the results, then such a plot might indeed succeed."

I'm not suggesting this is likely — and it's good to see that the Pa state senate majority leader said the legislature will follow the law. But also we long ago blazed past political norms in the USA.

Which is not to say that this is not all incredibly dangerous — Trump is radicalising his base even further

Hence my best-case scenario: Trump's base — which I'd say is higher than 30% of the voter pool — is being instructed to only believe votes are legitimate if they are for him. The GOP is playing with fire here. (Also, there's the nightmare scenario that will linger of Trump continuing to do rallies, Biden having to give way to Harris, and then 2024 being Trump vs Harris. Or Trump Family Member vs Harris, because when you're an authoritarian, you have to keep it in the family.)

Americans are almost depressingly proud of their democracy, and I honestly don't believe more than a tiny fraction will put up with this nonsense.

All the norms are gone. Chunks of the country have been radicalised. People aren't educated about what the norms even are — and don't care. (We have similar problems in the UK. I shudder to think what's going to happen at our next GE in 2024.)

They have no idea what damage they are doing to themselves, their  Party and their Country.

I doubt they care about the damage to the country. As for the GOP, it'll be fine, just like the Tories are fine in the UK. We've for years been hearing about how the days of hard conservatives are numbered, and it's repeatedly come back to bite us.

Until the systems change, things never will. In the UK, that would actually be really fucking easy, but it'd need Labour to get its head out of its arse re PR and make good with never winning a majority again. Although you'd think Labour would rather like very regularly being the biggest party in coalition vs perennially being the biggest losers on the opposition benches. (And this isn't a left or right of Labour thing: Blair tossed out the Jenkins report, and Corbyn was against PR for the Commons, but of course wanted it for the Lords where that would potentially benefit Labour and eradicate crossbenchers and Lib Dems. Starmer's at least made positive noises here, but we'll need something much firmer come 2024.)

[sheridan]

You can't have a king in America...

That's what they said to Octavian, right before 500 years of the Republic came crashing down at Actium.

But I agree, for all its oddities, Americans are almost depressingly proud of their democracy

I never get why they're proud to not have a monarchy, to be proud of democracy but always seem to support hereditary rulership - out of 230,000,000 people eligible to be president how come the son of a previous president was the one voted in?  And that's not mentioning the Kennedy family.

[TordelBack]

All the norms are gone. Chunks of the country have been radicalised. People aren't educated about what the norms even are — and don't care.

No question of it, but we're still talking about a minority, and a statistically less powerful minority at that. Enough to cause chaos, but not enough to undo the commitment of a majority of Americans to their Constitution and its institutions. They love that shit almost as much as the others hate it. That's right now,  mind - I make no predictions for what happens over the next four years. The ability of robber barons to leverage hate and ignorance should never be underestimated.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Re. the last two posts: He even named his youngest son Barron. Grooming by nominative determinism.

[von Boom]

Re. the last two posts: He even named his youngest son Barron. Grooming by nominative determinism.

His middle name wouldn't be Harkonnen by any chance?

[JayzusB.Christ]

Re. the last two posts: He even named his youngest son Barron. Grooming by nominative determinism.

His middle name wouldn't be Harkonnen by any chance?

I thought that sounded familiar, but I'm afraid I had to look it up! I was more thinking Von Blubba.

It honestly must be tough being a Trump son.  Love does not seem to be unconditional in that family, except if you're a hot (or 'voluptuous') daughter.

Funny how the Christian right can block out straight-out declarations of incestuous attraction, and twenty accusations of sexual assault, in their love for the great leader.

[Funt Solo]

Funny how the Christian right can block out straight-out declarations of incestuous attraction, and twenty accusations of sexual assault, in their love for the great leader.

Their agenda seems to be the sexual / reproductive enslavement of women, by men, so it's not too surprising. Remember that Pence can't be alone with any woman except his wife - which indicates clearly that he sees women as chattel. Just like the "good" book says.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Funny how the Christian right can block out straight-out declarations of incestuous attraction, and twenty accusations of sexual assault, in their love for the great leader.

Their agenda seems to be the sexual / reproductive enslavement of women, by men, so it's not too surprising. Remember that Pence can't be alone with any woman except his wife - which indicates clearly that he sees women as chattel. Just like the "good" book says.

Wow, I had no idea.  No wonder their administration love Saudi Arabia so much.