The Political Thread

[The Legendary Shark]

If the judge can not be searched but everyone else can, that seems to prove a double standard. Just because a human being is given a foolish wig and a costume to wear, that in no way makes that person any different - no better or no worse - than anyone else.

And you don't have to be Death Fist to do damage without a pen knife. With a shoe in each hand, I could have brained two people at once. I could have garroted one with my shoelace, strangled one with my tie, hanged one with my belt, suffocated one with my shirt, gassed one with my socks or infected one with my skiddies. I could have punched someone in the nose, blinded someone with a stiff finger, cracked someone's temple with my elbow, burst gonads with my knee, dislocated joints with my foot, cracked ribs with my heel, ruined expensive dental work with my forehead, chewed ears off with my teeth and so on and on.

The fact of the matter is that, if I'd been so inclined I indeed could have done more damage without my little Swiss army knife. In fact, using that as a weapon would probably have been a positive impediment - first I'd have to select the correct blade, fumbling about trying to find an undamaged fingernail to tease it out with, which would give everyone else time to react or scarper. Then, if I did dry to stab someone with it, chances are I'd just slice my own fingers as the blade tried to collapse back into place. I suppose I could have used some of the smaller tools sticking out from between my fingers as a kind of knuckleduster but, again, I'd still have to tease said tool out. Then I'd have to scramble over several lumps of hefty furniture to get at anybody without slipping and cutting my own fingers off.

Thinking back, the police officer who testified attended court in full uniform - complete with stab-vest and utility belt. My recollection may be wrong here as I had not thought of this before, but I don't think he'd been disarmed at all - even though he was, in theory at least, every bit as accused as I was.

Heh - I don't have a PM, so May can do what she wants. If she wants to go around claiming rights and privileges the rest of us don't have, then that's her business. If I did that I'd end up in a mental institution - if she does it, she'll end up on the Honours List. You can't fool me, TheBlaze, it's double standards all the way up! :-D

[Banners]

Would be pretty cool to have a leader called "Eagle" though...

[Hawkmumbler]

"Foolish wig and robes" and 20 years or up education, career work and experience. They aren't going to be the ones taking weapons in, Sharky.

Oh, and May can do what she wants, huh? Thanks a fucking lot Sharky, that makes the bisexual man who now has a raving homophobe as a PM feel very secure!

[IAMTHESYSTEM]

Perhaps both main parties will split into separate ones. More division rather than Unity. The Gods of Chaos rule I tell thee!

[The Legendary Shark]

JBC - I think the police are being put in an impossible situation.

On the one hand, they're expected to act as constables, whose duties are to uphold the common law and to protect the persons, rights and properties of everyone on their patch. On the other hand, they're expected to act as officers, whose duties are to raise revenue for the state and to enforce legislative law. This leads to a fundamentally schizophrenic institution. For example, the officer can chase you down, imprison and fine you for "failing to stop" if you have a light out on your car whilst a constable must help you in the event that you are chased, kidnapped and robbed. Legislative law and natural law are, in the main, incompatible, and asking one person to do both jobs is a recipe for disaster.

Give any person, no matter how pure their original intentions, the right and power to demand compliance with their demands and sooner or later that person is going to overstep the mark. It is unavoidable. You'd do it. I'd do it. Many police, especially in the US, have resigned because the job was turning them into monsters.

We know this is true. One only has to remember the Harvard Prison Experiment, the Millgram experiments and the rise of German Fascism in the 1920's and 30's to understand how power corrupts perfectly ordinary people, replacing their own personal morality with top-down legislative imperatives.

When all is said and done, a police officer/constable is just a human being in a costume. It's not even a magic costume. We treat them as being above us because we've been taught to do so, they treat themselves as being above us because they've been taught to do so. Neither one is true. We are equals.

Hawkmumbler - education, career and experience has nothing to do with it. The judge is a human being, as likely to act irrationally, rationally, mercifully, unmercifully, wisely or unwisely as any other human being. Just assuming that they wouldn't do a thing based solely on their position is a double standard and the appeal to authority fallacy.

And don't worry about what May thinks. Me, and a very many people like me (who do not necessarily share my political views), will fight to the last breath to protect your rights as a human being. I don't care what your sexual preferences are, that's as entirely irrelevant as skin colour, religion, political views or gender, you deserve the same rights and freedoms as everyone else. Just remember that by voting, for anyone, you are condoning a system which allows for homophobes, maniacs, thieves, liars, piggy fiddlers and general scumbags rising to positions of power over other people.

[ZenArcade]

Well to be fair Hawk, she's probably not a raving homophobe (there's no percentage in that for her 'currently') She is however a fairly cold fish with some pretty draconian views, but I suppose the biggest problem is she is just a frontend for the interests who essentially run this country, and sadly in her brutal clamber to the top of the manure pile, she probably owes them a lot of favours. Favours which they won't be shy about calling in.
The nation now has a remain PM who irrespective of what she said yesterday, will be pretty busy resiling herself from a brexit. You will have a single market with right to free movement in all but name, but without the rights and the benefits of real membership of the EU. But what the fuck, britain has 'taken back control'. Z

[Theblazeuk]

Obviously the Judge could be searched too.... No one is exempt from that in those situations. They just might not, whereas they will search every defendant. For blindingly obvious reasons that have nothing to do with the individual. Sophistry Sharky!

And you don't have to be Death Fist to do damage without a pen knife. With a shoe in each hand, I could have brained two people at once. I could have garroted one with my shoelace, strangled one with my tie, hanged one with my belt, suffocated one with my shirt, gassed one with my socks or infected one with my skiddies. I could have punched someone in the nose, blinded someone with a stiff finger, cracked someone's temple with my elbow, burst gonads with my knee, dislocated joints with my foot, cracked ribs with my heel, ruined expensive dental work with my forehead, chewed ears off with my teeth and so on and on.

Sounds like Death Fist to me.

[The Legendary Shark]

Blaze, you said, "A high court judge can't take a knife into the courtroom. He can of course not be searched but that's a different matter." Then you said, "Obviously the Judge could be searched too..."

As a Libertarian, I am entirely comfortable with and in favour of any property owner being within their rights to disallow any person or thing they don't like onto their property. This means only that I, or anyone else, has the right to request a search of any third party wishing to enter that property. I've been turned away from nightclubs because of my Swiss army knife and I have no problem with that. But that right is only to request compliance with a search. If the person requested refuses to be searched, that's fine - it simply means they don't get into the property. It's mandatory and arbitrary searches and confiscations that I believe are wrong. Treat me like an equal, ask to search me and everyone else, regardless of position, rank, class, colour, sex, race, religion or whatever (for the "obvious" reasons you mention) and in all likelihood I'll be happy to comply. Try to force me and you can piss off. Yes, this might seem like a minor, even trivial, position but it is the basis of proper freedom.  It's not so much why these things are done but how they are done.

As to fighting, I really don't know much about it as it's something I have very little experience with - nor do I want any - so I'd be content to leave such analyses to our resident commando!

[IndigoPrime]

Perhaps both main parties will split into separate ones. More division rather than Unity. The Gods of Chaos rule I tell thee!

If we had a grown-up electoral system, they could do so safely and then rejoin in coalition. Right now, Labour voters arguing for a split or Con/Lab suggestions of a 'new centre party' are insane. The SDP never got anywhere. The Lib Dems barely made a dent, despite getting a decent chunk of the votes. If we had AMS or even STV, all these problems would go away; but then Labour's hubris in Blair's term put paid to that.

[Theblazeuk]

Yeah, we are in dire need of some change to 1 non transferable vote and FPTP. Wish people had paid attention during that particular referendum (and if the usual idiots hadn't whined about it not being the 'right reform' when the alternative is always 'no reform')

And Shark... Oh give over  Lets not be pedantic over synonyms. If I had an edit function I meant "A high court judge may not be searched" because he's statistically incredibly unlikely to carry a weapon into court. However he could be searched and would have no right to refuse to be searched if requested. You know the difference so let's not pretend you're not getting it for the sake of more circular sophistry.  They do search everyone else automatically, regardless of position, rank, class, colour, sex, race or religion*. Every single defendant. It's an attempt to provide security without prejudice to those qualities. Which can only be done so arbitrarily.

[Old Tankie]

I voted to leave the EU and am quite happy to have Mrs May as the new Prime Minister.  We have a parliamentary democracy and Mrs May was elected to Parliament, so, in my view, no need for a General Election.

[Hawkmumbler]

I voted to leave the EU and am quite happy to have Mrs May as the new Prime Minister.  We have a parliamentary democracy and Mrs May was elected to Parliament, so, in my view, no need for a General Election.

I'll be thinking of you whilst I swollow my cyanide capsules to "cure" myself, namely how i'd like to strangle every leave voter with their own intestines.

Full offence, but if you think this pathetic display is hoe democracy should work you need to shut the heck up.

[NapalmKev]

I voted to leave the EU and am quite happy to have Mrs May as the new Prime Minister.  We have a parliamentary democracy and Mrs May was elected to Parliament, so, in my view, no need for a General Election.

Theresa May was elected by her constituents, not the majority of the Voting population. She was also in favour of remaining in Europe, which happens to be the opposite of what you believe.

Cheers

[Old Tankie]

Hawkmumbler - I do not wish to offend you in any way and, to be honest, I don't really understand your post.  We obviously have different political views, such is life.

[Hawkmumbler]

Hawkmumbler - I do not wish to offend you in any way and, to be honest, I don't really understand your post.  We obviously have different political views, such is life.

Then allow me to enlighten you! Theresa "Superbitch" May believes, amongst other equally repulsive things, that Lesbion, Gay and Bisexual folk should be treated chemicaly and with electro shock therapy to "cure" them.

Your happy with this kins of bigot in power?