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Author Topic: Without Dredd, 2000AD is nothing...  (Read 4459 times)

ThryllSeekyr

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Re: Without Dredd, 2000AD is nothi...
« Reply #15 on: 08 January, 2007, 06:38:51 PM »
From the perspective of person who's only discovered 2000AD in the mid eighties. I will presume that Judge Dredd is the centre-piece. Rogue Trooper, Nemesis the Warlock, Slaine and Johhny Aplha would then all be standing next in line. Then there is Halo Jones, Dr &  Quinch, Space Truckkers, Robo-Hunter. Then there were the newer characters.

A person who's seen 2000AD from the beginning might place Dan Dare, Star-lord, Harry High Twenty,  Stainless Steel Rat and  The Mean Team in the same heirachy that I have placed the others I mentioned above.

That is the way I remember them, anyway. Though,  I should really be saying the same thing about Tharg, who really is 2000AD.

As far as the the quality of the Judge Dredd strips. I think they were very simple at first as I had been reading the Judge Dredd case files number one and from there they do gradually get better. They sort of mature, though the more recent Dredds are bit too serious. More lacking in that droll humour that I had always associated with the character when I started reading 2000AD.

I first Dredd I ever read was 'The haunting of Sector House Nine'. So, personally, I think it was this style of Dredd strip that was the most definitive and the best.

I can't really pinpoint any particular prog that I really liked that had a sucky Dredd story in it. As there are a few progs out there that I liked that didn't even feature Dredd.




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Re: Without Dredd, 2000AD is nothi...
« Reply #16 on: 08 January, 2007, 07:15:43 PM »
Recently 2000 AD has been pretty damn solid and looking at the current issue (1518) I'd certianly buy it without Dredd being in it.
if I went 'round saying I was an Emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!

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I, Cosh

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Re: Without Dredd, 2000AD is nothi...
« Reply #17 on: 08 January, 2007, 07:22:30 PM »
Obviously I like Dredd, but if a particular story is below par it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the rest in the slightest, just as the inevitable next instalment of Lobster Random wont affect my enjoyment of the other four stories.

I could easily envisage a long, high-quality run without Dredd, although I can't see it ever happening. If you'd said "without Dredd, 2000AD would be nothing" then I'd agree as, without an iconic character like Dredd, it'd long since have folded.

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TordelBack

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Re: Without Dredd, 2000AD is nothi...
« Reply #18 on: 08 January, 2007, 07:25:22 PM »
It's the disappointment level that does it.

A really poor Dredd story leaves me feeling sour towards the whole Prog, in the way that a sucky episode of Sin Dex or a boring Future Shock never could.  I expect more from Dredd.  However, there have been times where Slaine (my one-time favourite) has had the same effect - notably bits of Time Killer and nearly all the Time Warrior claptrap. I got over it, but only by lowering my expectations and eventually stopping caring. Ditto Nemesis, Rogue and ABC Warriors.

I have read 2000AD when there was nothing in it I enjoyed but Dredd, and not uncoincidentally my two or three 'wilderness' periods of the 90's all began while Ennis or Millar were writing Dredd.  I can't see myself stopping caring about Dredd the way i have about Slaine, Rogue and Anderson, so if he goes, or plummets in quality, I doubt I'd stay on board.  Scary thought.


JOE SOAP

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Re: Without Dredd, 2000AD is nothi...
« Reply #19 on: 08 January, 2007, 07:33:12 PM »
What if Wagner quit writing Dredd & Strontium Dog?, would we buy tooth knowing there'd be no more Wagner stories?

TordelBack

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Re: Without Dredd, 2000AD is nothi...
« Reply #20 on: 08 January, 2007, 08:05:04 PM »
would we buy tooth knowing there'd be no more Wagner stories?

Possibly.  While Wagner is without question the untouchably definitive Dredd scripter, I suspect that some  of my reservations about other authors' work is the idea that what happens isn't 'real' Dredd. Happening in real years, the relevance of each story to Dredd's history is an important element.  That's why throwaway drivel like Judgement Day and Inferno annoy me so much.  

If (when?) Wagner really did stop writing Dredd for good, and the big man passed entirely to a new regular guy (Rennie being the obvious choice, although I'd love to see Dabnett try out too), it'd be possible to have more interest in where the story was going. I certainly had no problems with Strontium Dog when Grant was flying solo (although I know many others did).

I'd be more comfortable still if Joe himslef was somehow replaced with one of the younger lads at that point, and things took off fresh.  Of course, only time would tell - it could become the rudderless disaster that post-Moore Swamp Thing has been.  But I wouldn't pre-judge it as an automatic disaster.


Bart Oliver

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Re: Without Dredd, 2000AD is nothi...
« Reply #21 on: 08 January, 2007, 08:09:11 PM »

Stuggling to place a ++ crap Dredd Cover, crap Dredd story ++ but if I may be so bold-
prog 350's Dredd is a little more filler than thriller, with the rest of the line up being rock solid
classics.



IMHumbleO Dredd's universe has such a breadth and depth to it that, to my mind, handled
by the right creatives the title has come to mean more than just Joe and that the sum of the other parts
are equal to Dredd's presence.

Link: 350

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Re: Without Dredd, 2000AD is nothi...
« Reply #22 on: 08 January, 2007, 08:14:39 PM »
I loved the Last Invader!

There must be tonnes more unadulterated crap Dredd in the 90's when it was being held together by Jamie Hewlitts artwork...


I'll get me coat.

More like it, Logan. Still seeing a lot of John and Gerry in the list.

W. R. Logan

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Re: Without Dredd, 2000AD is nothi...
« Reply #23 on: 08 January, 2007, 08:22:36 PM »
If you try and go for a crap Dredd cover and story you end up with a few possibilities but then there's always a slaine, ace trucking garpetbaggers, mean team etc that is even worse. Go for a crap 90's Dredd and there's even worse in the Prog.

The search continues

W. R. Logan

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Re: Without Dredd, 2000AD is nothi...
« Reply #24 on: 08 January, 2007, 08:37:12 PM »
you could pick one of the worst Dredd stories of all time and one hat even the writer dislikes but you come up with a really dire Prog savedby a second Dredd strip:

2000AD PROG 958
COVER DATE: 22nd September, 1995
Price: £1.00 Earth money
Cover: Sláine by Clint Langley

Awakening of Angels
Script: John Wagner
Artist: Carlos Ezquerra

Sláine
Lord of Misrule
Script: Pat Mills
Artist: Clint Langley

Vector 13
Case Eight: Echo Location
Script: Dan Abnett
Artist: Nigel Dobbyn

Journal of Luke Kirby
Old Straight Track
Script: Alan McKenzie
Artist: Steve Parkhouse

Maniac 6
Script: Mark Millar
Artist: Steve Yeowell

Judge Dredd
Bad Frendz
Script: John Wagner
Artist: Carlos Ezquerra

Link: Prog 958


W. R. Logan

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Re: Without Dredd, 2000AD is nothi...
« Reply #25 on: 08 January, 2007, 08:47:48 PM »
>although I'd love to see Dabnett try out too

well its been a while but his previous Dredd's werent great, it doesnt help that a couple of the artists didnt help either.

Dan Abnett's Dredd's

Rad Blood
Progs 895 to 896
Artist: Ron Smith

Part Exchange
Prog 903
Artist: John Burns

C-H-A-M-P!
Prog 967
Artist: Anthony Williams

Carlsborg Expert

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Re: Without Dredd, 2000AD is nothi...
« Reply #26 on: 08 January, 2007, 08:55:51 PM »
2000AD meeting it's 1000th prog marker like a rebelious teenager.

I'd say that was a level cross section being 1995.Backed with an awful crossbreeding with Dan Abnett. I bet the Ron Smith one is the naz.

Huey2

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Re: Without Dredd, 2000AD is nothi...
« Reply #27 on: 08 January, 2007, 09:24:26 PM »
Hey!

I liked Little Spuggy's Christmas. Fine art and a fine story.

- Huey

TordelBack

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Re: Without Dredd, 2000AD is nothi...
« Reply #28 on: 08 January, 2007, 09:36:01 PM »
well its been a while but his previous Dredd's werent great

Don't think I've read any of those obvious classics.  I come at this suggestion as a very recent convert to the cult of He of the Fruitful Keyboard.  Until recently I hated latter Durham Red (still do) and all things Sin Dex.  But recently, Atavar, the VCs, later SinDex and now Kingdom have seen me really warm to the easy wit of his writing.  The man has always had ready access to an endless stream of ideas and so-godawful-they're-good puns, but recently he seems to have got the knack of making me interested in his characters and plots, even the most apparently superficial ones.  I'd suppose like to see what he could do with a Dredd of his own.  

Other possible contenders like R. Morrison, Spurious, J. Smith and Edginton bring too much of their own very distinct tone to Dredd - and while I enjoy their other work greatly, this usually means it's overwritten with either a grossly unlikeable or ludicrously sensitive Dredd wandering around.  Having read A. Moore's one-and-only Dredd srcipt, I see he had the same problem.  

Ennis has had his gore'n'slapstick-filled shot and by his own admission failed, although he did almost redeem himself with the fun Monkey on my Back.  Millar and G. Morrison owe us all a huge apology.  Grant palpably hates Dredd and despite his huge contribution over the years has lost the plot.  And Grud defend us from the Second Coming of Mills, tho' no denying the power of his early work on the character.

Then we come to Grennie, who has by now pretty much nailed Dredd's voice and world, but seems to spend too much time foregrounding the Family Dredd cast (now with L'il Kazan!), giving the whole thing a  Superman vibe - the Man of Steel is invulnerable and unchanging, so let's play instead with Jimmy, Lois, Perry and Luthor.  I suspect this is because Dredd and MC-1 aren't his to run with while Wagner remains Top Dog, and he's probably hit on a very clever alternative approach.  My niggling worry is that it's because he has nothing new to say about Dredd or MC-1.  I do find this paranoid thought hard to believe, given recent I-Can't-Believe-It's_Not-Wagner efforts.

Of all the above, the only untested horse in the stable is Abnett (ignoring those few early triumphs), and I'd like to see what he could do if he directed his huge energies in that direction.

TordelBack

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Re: Without Dredd, 2000AD is nothi...
« Reply #29 on: 08 January, 2007, 09:36:44 PM »
Oh dear God the tags, close the tags.