The Political Thread

[Jim_Campbell]

Re the 'myth' about permanent Tory rule if Scotland were to gain independence.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-labour-doesnt-need-scotland/

I'm sorry, Colin, but that link is a little bizarre and does some odd things with stats to bend the facts to its narrative. Crucially, it blithely ignores the slow but steady extinction of the Conservatives as a parliamentary force north of the border over the period it examines.

Plus: who gives a damn whether it would affected Eden's Tory majority if the Scots had gained independence in 1955? This is the most astonishingly obtuse diversionary tactic. If anyone is claiming that an argument against Scottish independence is that historically Labour would have formed fewer governments since WWII then the Wings Over Scotland link is a handy rebuttal. However, that would be a very bizarre argument and anyone making it is an idiot.

The argument is that now Scottish independence effectively removes 58 opposition seats from Westminster and would give the Tories a parliamentary majority without recourse to those pesky Liberal Democrats. Keep in mind that it was only sabotage by the LibDems that stopped the Tories from re-drawing the constituency boundaries to bias the electoral system still further in their favour.

Now, I freely concede that a Tory majority in Westminster for at least a generation is not of the slightest concern to an independent Scotland, and is certainly no reason for anyone in Scotland to vote 'No' to independence, but it's certainly a concern of stomach-churning proportions to those of us who will have to live with the consequences.

Cheers

Jim

[Old Tankie]

Hi Jim  Could you explain to me how the electoral system is biased towards the Tories?  If anything, it's the other way around.  In 2010 the Tories got over 2 million votes more than Labour but were unable to form a majority, while in 2005, Labour got less than 1 million votes more than the Tories and were able to form a government with a majority of over 60.

[Jim_Campbell]

Hi Jim  Could you explain to me how the electoral system is biased towards the Tories?

I meant 'still further' in relation to the way the political map would look if Scottish independence handed the Conservatives a 57 seat advantage, not from the current situation. My phrasing is unclear, for which I will apologise without reservation.

Cheers

Jim

[Old Tankie]

Thanks for clearing that up.

[The Legendary Shark]

Which of the mainstream political parties is against all these wars we're embroiled in? Which of them is against Q.E.? Which of them is against crony capitalism? Which one of them is for public money creation? Which one for the unions? Which one for personal freedom? For true electoral and democratic reform? Which one prepared to listen to reason or take its policies from what the general public needs? Which one for being truthful? Which one for allowing us to choose our own candidates?

They are all the same, which is why elections are like voting for your favourite disease.

No matter which way the Scottish referendum goes, nothing of any consequence will change.

[TordelBack]

Political parties are next on my list after nation states.

[Richmond Clements]

I will apologise without reservation.

This is the politics thread! On the internet! We'll have less of this sort of thing...

[JayzusB.Christ]

,... for which I will apologise without reservation.

Nazi.

[Tombo]

They are all the same, which is why elections are like voting for your favourite disease.

Or, to paraphrase Frankie Boyle, "It's a lot like betting on a Donkey Derby.  It doesn't matter what colour hat the donkey's wearing, whoever wins isn't relevant to the real world".  He was actually talking about football teams but the sentiments the same I guess.

Something struck me the other day (leaving a bruise, I shall be speaking to my solicitor).  I was mooching around Wikipedia and I read the article on some Labour MP who was first elected to the Commons in 1971 and had stayed there ever since.  I thought to myself "That woman has no idea at all about the real world, her entire life revolves around committees, meetings, and occasionally showing up to vote on what ever the party tells her to vote on".   

I had the idea that one way of controlling politicians would be to set a cap, say three times, on how many times they could stand for parliament, not get voted in mind but actually stand for election.  This would reduce the number of people who make a career out of showing up once a fortnight and claiming wages for a months work, force fresh blood into Parliament, and cut down on the number of "Standing-at-the back-looking-stupid" parties.  Just an idea of course, they'd never allow it.

[Frank]

I had the idea that one way of controlling politicians would be to set a cap, say three times, on how many times they could stand for parliament

The Ancient World beat you to it.

[Professor Bear]

I am now retiring the phrase "the Tories cannot sink any lower" from my personal lexicon.  http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/20/people-stripped-benefits-charged-decision

[ZenArcade]

Read the article earlier. If true, then utterly contemptable. What is it with these guys, do they think it makes them bigger men down in the club by beating up on the poor. 

[Colin MacNeil]

Re Mr Campbell's remarks.

Bizarre link?
"This is the most astonishingly obtuse diversionary tactic." You really don't like the thought of an independent Scotland, do you? "The Bain Principle" at work here?

I put up these links to show that Scottish votes do not matter at Westminster, never have and never will. As someone said, he who does not keep one eye on the past will be blind to the future in both eyes.

If you are worried about Tory rule, persuade your fellow citizens to vote for something else. Don't blame the Scots for England's choices.

I'm an artist so not great at written argument, but if you think the facts are wrong in that link, then type a comment on to it, challenge it. You'll soon get a response from those who are more able than I to argue the point. See how you get on, dare you.

Quote from: Old Tankie on 20 February, 2014, 01:11:35 PM
Hi Jim  Could you explain to me how the electoral system is biased towards the Tories?

I meant 'still further' in relation to the way the political map would look if Scottish independence handed the Conservatives a 57 seat advantage, not from the current situation. My phrasing is unclear, for which I will apologise without reservation.

Cheers

Jim

Mr Campbell just lied to you Old Tankie, Scottish votes mean nothing. (You read the links, yes?) The constituency boundary areas favour the Labour Party at the moment. As you said in your post.

"Hi Jim  Could you explain to me how the electoral system is biased towards the Tories?  If anything, it's the other way around.  In 2010 the Tories got over 2 million votes more than Labour but were unable to form a majority, while in 2005, Labour got less than 1 million votes more than the Tories and were able to form a government with a majority of over 60."


Anyhoo, hope that's stirred the hornets nest a wee bit.


Kindest regards from a soon to be independent Kingdom of Scotland to a soon to be independent Kingdom of England (&NI).


Cheers

Colin

[CrazyFoxMachine]

Kindest regards from a soon to be independent Kingdom of Scotland to a soon to be independent Kingdom of England (&NI).

Wales draws the short straw in your regards there Mr MacNeil!

Bydd Cymru'n rhydd!!!

[The Legendary Shark]

And now to kick off the Campaign for an Independent Lancashire! Ey-up the People!