What The Flux?

[MumboJimbo]

I’m a bit more bullish about RTD returning, and Bad Wolf taking over production from BBC in-house. As it should (hopefully) allow people to make those decisions, and allow RTD to take responsibility over where the series takes the doctor, and the 14th doctor’s character arc. Years and Years was very decent I think, although the sci-fi elements with the futuristic AR hacking were abysmal, which has a deep irony seeming as who was helming the show!

I think Chibnall has tried to turn the clock back in a sense, and go back to the Baker-era where “assistants” (as they were called then) weren’t meant to have deep backstories and were just conduits for the doctor’s soliloquies so he didn’t look like he was talking to himself. I’m not always RTD’s biggest fan, but I think he knew when he relaunched the show that a modern take on the doctor had to do a lot more than that.

[Leigh S]

I think New Whos problems are all of its own making, rather tha anyhting inherited from the Classic, outside of a general "they did stories that were rubbish in the 60s and 70s too" justification you can hear whirring in the background of any given modern "The Moon is an Egg" type story.

Mostly they stem from the leeway for poor plotting/resolution if it pushes character/emotional buttons that RTD had.  Sadly, Chibnall is entirely trying to be RTD I think, but without much clue (or ability) to know what RTD was sacrificing for what benefit.  Chibnall throws away the plot sense with a simialr abandon to RTD.  However, the sacrifices arent to aid character or spectacle or whatever RTD would utilise to keep the viewership engaged.  But it's entirely RTD who set the precedent with this "only m*ng m*ngs complain about plot" attitude.

Chibnall is attempting to cook the same pie, because he knows the list of RTDs successful ingredients, but has no clue about the recipe.

[IndigoPrime]

Yep—that about sums it up for me. RTD wrote nonsense but it was compelling and full of heart. (A pity, then, that it turns out the production under his watch was a shitshow and that his attitude towards Eccels was so abhorrent that there’s no chance getting him back for any more appearances on the telly.) Moffat dialled up the horror (good) and the intrigue (mixed) but threw character out of the windows (bad) and started panicking regarding the failure of the series with kids (WTF sonic sunglasses).

Chibnall has perfectly reasonable ideas. Some of his scripts and episodes have been really good. But his characterisation is dreadful, and, as Leigh said, his tendency to not care about logic doesn’t work so well when his version of the show rests on characters that are often so thin they’d disappear if they turned 90 degrees. That’s especially the case with the women. And that’s a big problem when two thirds of the leads in the current series are women.

This still makes me angry. This could and should have been a turning point and a proving ground. Instead, loads of idiots are now arguing that Doctor Who is woke central and that every figure incarnation should be a white man. It’s also a big, big waste of Whittaker, who is in many ways excellent, but who’s been let down horribly.

[Dandontdare]

Chibnall doesn’t appear remotely interested in giving his female characters any actual character at all.

It's not just his women, nobody sounds real. Davies and Moffat wrote many memorable supporting characters with distinct personalities and voices for their 45 minutes' existence. Chibnall's characters just don't behave or sound like real people. That scouse family really got on my tits, and Dan seems to be carved from the same block of wood as Ryan. Bradley Walsh may have been another chirpy regional-sterotype comic sidekick, but at least he could act.

Seems weird that people seem to be slagging off just about everyone who's run the show they've been following for 16 years.

[Leigh S]

I read elsewhere that in this book "A/The Writers Tale", RTD said something along the lines of "I have no problem sacking anyone who doesnt work as hard as I do".

Given how I believe RTD himself admits that he worked himself into some form of a breakdown/nervous exhaustion, it's not that difficult to see why Eccleston would have issues.

AS IP said, Chibnall has muddied the waters when it comes to a female Doctor, not because a female Doctor doesnt work, but becasue a Chibnall Doctor doesnt work

[Leigh S]

Chibnall doesn’t appear remotely interested in giving his female characters any actual character at all.

It's not just his women, nobody sounds real. Davies and Moffat wrote many memorable supporting characters with distinct personalities and voices for their 45 minutes' existence. Chibnall's characters just don't behave or sound like real people. That scouse family really got on my tits, and Dan seems to be carved from the same block of wood as Ryan. Bradley Walsh may have been another chirpy regional-sterotype comic sidekick, but at least he could act.

Seems weird that people seem to be slagging off just about everyone who's run the show they've been following for 16 years.

Its a show I was watching for a lot longer than 16 years though and thats the point isnt it?

I spent my childhood with Tom and learned to read with Hartnell, Troughton and Pertwee Target books.

I only ended up reading 2000AD due to Mills and Wagner writing those Doctor Who weekly stories.

I thought the Eccleston year was a great if qualified success.

Sadly, my belief that they would iron out the kinks fell on barren soil - I was a m^ng m*ng fo wanting the stories plots to have as much thought put into them as their emotional arcs.

It was no surprise that Moffatt working with RTD got us the best stories of that era, and when Moffatt first took over, we had another pretty great and promising series, followed by diminishing returns until we get to the Clara years where the stories appear to be Moffatt channelling a mid life crisis.  His final series was a good step up (ignoring his treatment of the First Doctor)....

Chibnall, well, Chibnall is just not of the calibre of either of those writers for all their individual faults.  All he can do is parrot stuff he sees in those eras, faults and all.

If I'd taken an "I will stop following this thing I love because it is going through an extended rough patch" then I wouldnt be on a 2000AD forum!

[Tiplodocus]

Bits of this are starting to make sense (though I'm not quite sure about the excellent and very watchable Jo Martin's Doctor leading an SAS squad) but that was quite a dull and jerky way of getting there.

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

I intend to binge watch this in a couple of weeks, when the missus is away with her sister for a few days* and I can have a bottle or two of wine and disengage the brain.

*I am not committing to getting out my PJs.

[Dandontdare]

After a decent second episode, Chibnall has gone back to throwing a dozen different plots at the screen at a breakneck pace to mask how poor it is. A disjointed and confusing episode

[IndigoPrime]

Mrs IP: “I don’t know what the fuck is going on.”

I got some strands of it, but I just don’t *care* what is going on. This is Chibnall at his worst, making Doctor Who impenetrable. Also, someone whose mission is love kills a being and calls them an idiot? Hrng.

[Proudhuff]

I've not a lot invested in this, but it does seem that everything is just getting thrown into the melting pot and then thrown against to wall to see what sticks... total overload but no substance. Great cast wasted running about and SHOUTING!

anyone for a jellybaby?

[IndigoPrime]

Given the individual components in the last episode, it was strange how it just all felt so boring. So flat and dull. I’m not sure what’s wrong: my own response to this, the scripting or the direction. The cast, at least, seems solid. But I’m just not invested in any of it. I couldn’t give two hoots what happens to the characters at this point, including the Doctor. And that’s not good.

With the two previous eras of this show, there were things I missed when the people stepped down. I’m struggling with this one beyond abstracts (“a Doctor who isn’t make”, “going a bit heavier on history and education”). There have been good episodes, but the one thing I think I’ll fundamentally miss is Segun Akinola, who’ll inevitably be turfed out when RTD rocks up and demands the theme be turned into a bombastic hellscape again (and the internal music ramped up so you can’t hear any of the dialogue). I hope not, though, because Akinola’s theme is one of the best from the show’s entire run.

[pauljholden]

Is it just me or is John Bishop appalling - not his character but his acting. It's sort of flat and utterly unconvincing, maybe he's capable of a good performance but they haven't got it from him yet, but just ugh...

[Leigh S]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noaMIy_FWsA&t=519s

[Colin YNWA]

Just watched Episode 2 and ... well... does it get any better?