Prog 1403 - Dogs at War

[philt]

the problem at the moment is that 2000ad  seems content with retreading old ground. it reminds me of those concerts that Madness do round Christmas - they play the old hits - the fans are happy. You won't get any surprises or nothing of the old spark that made the band tick instead you get a facsimile. Which is what 2000ad has become. I've said it before but it is worth repeating. The reason why Strontium Dog and the VC's and Rogue Trooper and Robo Hunter and Bill Savage were "killed off" is because they had run their course (and is at least three of the above long outstayed their welcome. So what happens? Do the editorial team say "get out their Wagner and Mills and Grant and create us the New Hyperheroes" no instead they allow them (and others) to reguritate the past over and over and over again. And that's what we have at the moment - a comic that while better than it was in the 90's has become stagnant. I mean is anyone here seriously going to tell me that the current run of the ABC Warriors / Strontium Dog  are a patch on the original? it's not even as good as the Bisley stuff and that is saying something. And worse there are stories that frankly wouldn't be out of place in the bad old day's of Miller and McKenzie et all - Valkeryies? Dead Man Walking? Synamon? Bison? Bec And Krawl? and no doubt a whole host of other 6 part stories that have appeared over the last 18 months that I  can't even recall.
Of course I'm in the minority here I don't buy into the "old school thrills" school of thought. I don't beleive 2000ad's future is served by strip mining it's past.  

[Bico]

I think 2000ad's main problem is that it caters too much to a core audience, without adequately developing stories with a grab-factor to pull in wavering/newbie readers.  I'm happy enough with Cabs inc, Stronty and ABC Warriors, but I do have to admit that the pacing needs to be upped a bit, and they need to introduce more story elements at a quicker pace than they do at the minute.
Look at the older stories, and how quickly they used up ideas, throwing away in one or two panels what most American writers would struggle to produce in the course of several months of a comic-book's run.  If I step away from my love of the book, I have to admit that 2000ad isn't pulling out all the stops on the current run.  I mean, come on, Action Man had a free water pistol on the cover - no wonder Andy Wildman works for them now.

[Bico]

Actually, all joking aside, if 2000ad gave away a free water pistol shaped like Dredd's lawgiver, I'd buy two issues.

Really.

[Dudley]

...probably because Mills would have written it straight.

Didn't you think it was written pretty straight anyway?

[petemaskreplica]

Dud, I think that the fact that this week's "card" schtick was preceeded by Dredd saying "Do you feel lucky?" last week is a fair indication that it's meant to be taken humourously.

philt, you make some very good points which are worth debating at length, but as I've had a few and it's late, I shan't attempt to do so now. But yes, I do think the curent Stront stories are on a  par with the older ones, Savage is great because it updates and subverts the old Invasion stories without pissing on them, ABC Warriors is admittedly plotless, but has more than enough passing detail to compensate... and of course you're right, 2K can't rely on strip-mining old stories for its future, which is why we've had the likes of Caballistics, Lobster Random, Snow/Tiger etc in the past year or two. And I think Synnamon has the potential to become a thoroughly decent ongoing series. So we're both in a minority one way or another :)

I really believe 2K right now is the strongest it's been since I started reading it in the early 80's, and I never hesitate to rant at ex-squaxx about this when I see them.

[Leigh S]

"Didn't you think it was written pretty straight anyway?"

To be honest, I thought it was blindingly obvious that Dredds speech was completely tongue in cheek - he's stalling for time by making up a cheesy routine based on an famous old skit ( IIRC there was a letter to 2000AD in it's early days about how a deck of cards reminded the squaxx of 2000AD - the joker was ro-jaws, the king was Dredd or whatever) - it's comedy gold I tells ya.
 The fact so many people have taken it as straight proves it's a damn sight more subtle than the "you WILL laugh" antics of strips like Sin Dex and B & K, and a thousand times funnier for it

[Dudley]

The fact so many people have taken it as straight proves it's a damn sight more subtle than the "you WILL laugh" antics of strips like Sin Dex and B & K

But people keep telling me it's funny and I keep having to respond: no it isn't, not really funny...  Dredd makes up crap over 3-4 pages?  Not funny crap either, unless you recognise an idea from a reader's letter 20 years ago?  And they say Bec & Kawl uses fanboy references like it's a bad thing!

[Dudley]

Ah, fergit it.  Just been informed it parodies something v famous from the First World War, which I'd never heard of.

[Leigh S]

Heh - now you know how we feel when we haven't read any Etrigan/sandman/hellboy comics, Duds! But it does perhaps show the danger in comedy that relies on the reader spotting the reference.

[Leigh S]

Forgot to say - the reason this works much better for me (other than getting the ref), is that it's actually integral to the plot rather than airlifted in to raise a smile; for me, that makes all the difference

[Leigh S]

During the North African Campaign, a bunch of soldier boys had been on a long hike. They arrived in a little town called Casino. The next morning being Sunday, several of the boys went to church. A sergeant commanded the boys in church.


After the Chaplain read the prayer, the text was taken up next. Those of the boys that had a prayer book took them out. One boy had only a deck of cards, and he spread them out. The sergeant saw the cards and said, "Soldier, put away those cards." After the service was over, the soldier was taken prisoner and brought before the Provost Marshal.


The Marshal said, "Sergeant, why have you brought this man here?"


"For playing cards in church, Sir," was the response.


The Marshal asked the soldier, "And what have you to say for yourself, son?"


"Much, Sir," replied the soldier.


The Marshal stated, "I hope so, for if not I will punish you more than any man was ever punished."


The soldier said, "Sir, I have been on the march for about six months. I have neither bible nor a prayer book, but I hope to satisfy you, sir, with the purity of my intentions." And with that, the boy started his story ...


"You see, sir, when I look at the Ace, it reminds me that there is but one God.
And the deuce reminds me that the bible is divided into two parts: the Old and the New Testaments.
When I see the trey, I think of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
And when I see the four, I think of the four evangelists who preached the Gospel: there was Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
And when I see the five, it reminds me of the five wise virgins who trimmed their lamps; there were ten of them: five were wise and were saved, five were foolish and were shut out.
When I see the six, it reminds me that in six days God made this heaven and earth.
And when I see the seven, it reminds me that on the seventh day, God rested from his great work.
And when I see the eight, I think of the eight righteous persons that God saved when he destroyed the earth: there was Noah, his wife, their sons and their wives.
And when I see the nine, I think of the lepers our saviour cleansed, and that nine of the ten didn't even thank him.
When I see the ten, I think of the ten commandments that God handed down to Moses on a tablet of stone.
When I see the King, it reminds me that there is but one King of Heaven, God Almighty.
And when I see the Queen, I think of the blessed Virgin Mary who is the Queen of Heaven.
And the Jack or Knave is the Devil.


When I count the number of spots in a deck of cards, I find 365, the number of days in a year.
There are 52 cards, the number of weeks in a year.
There are four suits, the number of weeks in a month.
There are twelve picture cards, the number of months in a year.
There are thirteen tricks, the number of weeks in a quarter.


So you see, Sir, my deck of cards serves me as a bible, an almanac and a prayer book."

[Wake]

I thought it was blindingly obvious that Dredds speech was completely tongue in cheek

Anybody who currently thinks that the speech was written straight will probably change their minds after reading prog 1404

Wake

[House of Usher]

My comments on this thread won't post.

[Tex Hex]

Listmania!

In order of greatness

1)Cabbinc. Not the best episode ever but the best in this prog.

2)Bec and Kawl. I realised I had read this episode and really liked it. Something rum's afoot. Previously it was just an excuse for stoopid jokes, now the stories are getting better all the time and the jokes are feeling less forced.

3)Dredd / Alpha. Both fun. Both inconsequential.

4)ABC warriors. The lack of any plot whatsoever means this is hanging by a thread at the bottom of my list. And where are the goddamn shadow warriors!? Were half way through book 2 of the shadow warriors and theyve yet to put up a fight! Meanwhile the Warriors wander about Mars encountering all kinds of "whacky" bullshit. Its like the Books of Invasion all over again!  Give me Kronicles of Khaos any day. Great art mind.

hex

[Tordelbach]

Blimey.  Finally read 1403 last night, after a few days scanning the spoilers above and worrying not a small bit about comments on  JD, ABC and SD, and I discovered that my fears were unfounded.  This was a great prog!  

JD was funny and different, the card schtick I remember an earlier parody of from some stand-up or other in the 70's (why do I want to say Max Boyce?), and the Cadets were cool. Nice to see Dredd struggling for a change.  Fun, people, fun!

B&K was great, hilarious and beautifully drawn.  This is my favourite run on a series I didn't originally care for, but have warmed to muchly.

ABC-W is completely insane rubbish at the moment - but very dense and not unlike the original Mars run at the same time.  And it looks fantastic - art to rival Kev O'Neill's psycho-biker images any day.  What more does anyone want?

Caballistics.  Well what can i say?  Do we have a phenomenon on our hands or what?  Better and better and better, every episode.  Fast moving, funny, cool.

SD:  Loved it.  Traditional SD story, "twist" was non-existant, punchline a groaner, but great art and good fun all round.

BBC thingie was sort of fun - I suppose ageing British institutions have to stick together, and the site it's advertising is great.
 
This was a strongly comedy-themed issue, and I laughed heartily.  Only major downer:  Wot, no Droid Life?