Does my Art look big in this?

[Jon]

Hmmm. This is interesting, I  hear this sort of opinion a lot. Is it true, or is this just some perception of what we think art education should be?

Just to put an alternative point of view across (I'm not trying to start a fight)...

I had similar experiences, I guess because a/ I already thought I was infinitely more talented than those who taught me and b/ I just wanted to draw comics and Judge Zippy 'n' stuff in art lessons, whereas they wanted me to study the play of light and the form of tomatoes, or at the very least glance at basic anatomy and perspective if I insisted on drawing comics, etc. To learn to look and be critical and analytical, basically. I didn't though. I was an arrogant bloody pain, to be quite honest.

Years later when I found myself "doing art" for a living I realised that they, of course, were right and were really only trying to develop my ability. I ended up having to revisit some of those first principles that I really should have acknowledged in the first place.

I suppose even art teachers have agendas and lesson plans they have to adhere to (I'm married to teacher now so I have a little more sympathy, perhaps). After all, it's not like you can just sit and draw triangles all day in a maths class cos that's the bit you like.

Now I'm not saying that you should attempt to take all that spontaneous creativity out of a child, or anyone who just wants to enjoy art for the pure joy of it. But looking back, when I was very young I had the opposite problem, and needed prompting and encouragement to do anything more than the bare minimum, and I only ever remember people encouraging me to try different things.

For those who want to do it professionally though there are rules just like everything else and one of the things I find regularly confounding as an art director in the games industry is the increasing number of young 'artists' who are highly proficient in using tools, but don't have the first idea about composition or basic colour theory, or seem to think that the sky itself was originated in Halo, etc.

I dunno, maybe I was just lucky. But I don't think so.

What sort of ages of art education did people find frustrating? And how so?

[M.I.K.]

When I was about 10 years old and at primary school, we used to get a one hour art lesson, once a week, from a qualified art teacher.

One week, he wanted us to draw 'a pebbly beach'. Someone asked if we could draw boats in the background, and he said we could put whatever we wanted into the picture as long as it was relevant and the main focus was on the pebbly beach. So, everyone started drawing their pictures of pebbles on a beach, including things like boats and lighthouses. Someone close to where I was sitting drew a mermaid on a rock.

I drew a shark's fin sticking out the water with an arrow pointing at it and the words "GUESS WHO?" written above it.

When the art teacher saw what I'd done, he went ballistic. He got very loud, looked like he was about to burst a blood vessel and started ranting about how it was a 'serious art lesson' and how dare I make a mockery of the task I'd been set. I didn't think I'd done anything wrong, if I had I'd probably have been terrified at his sudden outburst, but I just couldn't believe how angry he was getting over such a trivial thing and just stood there gawping at him in disbelief. As punishment for my apparent transgression, I was to miss the next week's lesson and would have to sit in the main classroom by myself, while the rest of my class went to the art room.

So, I told my parents about the mental art teacher banning me from art and why he'd done so. They didn't think it was justified either, complained to the school, and I'm guessing said teacher stormed off in a huff, because he didn't come back. From that point on we got another art teacher who was far less aggressive. The other bloke did apparently return to the school a few years later, but by that point, I was attending high school.

I've often wondered if he once knew someone who was eaten by shark.

[Jim_Campbell]

I'll be honest -- mostly, I wanted to learn to draw, and our art department spent most of its time whiffling on about how stuff made us feel. I already understood enough about art (my parents weren't artists, but the house was full of books on artists from the Renaissance through to Picasso) to understand that I needed to know how to draw before I could develop a style of my own.*

(Consequently, art as a subject was am exercise in frustration and I dropped it in favour of Technical Drawing, which resulted in my lifelong love of perspective...)

TBH, my previous post about school and career advisors was more intended to rail against the overwhelming culture that trammels you into the GCSE -> A-Level -> Degree -> Office Job path that they still seem to be peddling twenty-five years after I left school and got a degree that did me no good whatsoever in terms of employment...

It's bollocks. Find something you enjoy and that you're good at, and try your level best to get people to pay you for it.

Cheers

Jim

*Your artistic style... splendidly described by -- I think -- Neal Adams as: "Everything you get wrong."

[Jon]

*Your artistic style... splendidly described by -- I think -- Neal Adams as: "Everything you get wrong."

Superb! Reminds me of Boo Cook's explanation (though1 I'm doubtless paraphrasing as alcohol was involved); " If I could I'd portray space people doing space things totally photographically realistically, but I can't, so that's how I draw."

Obviously far more succinct.

[staticgirl]

Perhaps if any of my art tutors and teachers had been slightly interested in teaching me draughtsmanship I'd  not have minded so much that they thought the commercial arts I loved (including comics) were 'not real art'.  It was all about 'expressing yourself' and later about the sort of installations you see in art galleries now and which I think are complete piss taking crap.

I got cowed into doing the GCSE -> A-Level -> Degree -> Office Job thing and I'm too timid to do anything else. I'm also miserable.

If there are any young folk on this board who are thinking about their future options for god's sakes follow your heart if you can. If your tutors are just as bad just get a copy of one of Andrew Loomis's books and learn to draw from them instead. Also work on your self confidence and courage so you can take the setbacks and hold on to your goal.

On a lighter note - Phuz and Dunk _ excellent work there!  Phuz - as you can tell, your strip is very thought and emotion provoking plus a great style too. Dunk - that's a cool looking Anderson.

[CrazyFoxMachine]

Went to a night with "children's illustrators" in Bristol last night, a lot of them commercial successful and highly talented. They told me unreservedly that I'd made a huge mistake not doing an arts degree (I did archaeology) and that I should "go back to school" and learn all the "proper" methods before even thinking of adopting my own style or expressing myself artistically. feh.

I gave up art at GCSE because all I ever wanted to do was draw comics and at every turn all my teachers could say was "it's not art". I got D's in everything and I hated every second of it.

[Phuz]

On a lighter note - Phuz and Dunk _ excellent work there!  Phuz - as you can tell, your strip is very thought and emotion provoking plus a great style too.

Actually it wasn't my comic-strip, it's by the excellent Chris Harding (http://www.chrisharding.net)

[Danbo]

Went to a night with "children's illustrators" in Bristol last night, a lot of them commercial successful and highly talented. They told me unreservedly that I'd made a huge mistake not doing an arts degree (I did archaeology) and that I should "go back to school" and learn all the "proper" methods before even thinking of adopting my own style or expressing myself artistically. feh.

I gave up art at GCSE because all I ever wanted to do was draw comics and at every turn all my teachers could say was "it's not art". I got D's in everything and I hated every second of it.

Yup same here,it's 'journalism' apparently? That's what my Graphic design tutor told me.

[SMUDGE10]

I was an arrogant bloody pain, to be quite honest.

Yeh. Me too. I'm working on it!

What sort of ages of art education did people find frustrating? And how so?

Foundation level. Seemed all anyone wanted to teach me was how to be a pretentious. I just wanted to learn how to draw better. I stropped off in a huff and missed out on allot of good stuff I've had to go back and learn later.

I'll be honest -- mostly, I wanted to learn to draw, and our art department spent most of its time whiffling on about how stuff made us feel.

Kinda similar!


For anyone interested there is a cracking good Ted talk by Ken Robinson on How Schools Kill Creativity.

[Woolly]

A work in progress (as is everything i do! I never finish anything!)

[Greg M.]

Blimey, Woolly, that's jaw-dropping stuff. Sepia has never seemed so sinister! Menacingly beautiful work.

[Darren Stephens]

Superb woolly. Absolutely cracking! 

[antodonnell]

Very solid work Woolly, you've improved LOADS since I've last been around 

[Woolly]

Thanks gents, kind words.
I'll try and get a finished version up soon. 

[SuperSurfer]

Yeah, sterling work, Woolly.