A good prog this week - can't bring to mind what is missing from last weeks to make way for Slaine? I;d presumed we'd be waiting for the end of the 3riller
Dredd is well wrtten, but I'm really havinng to pretend a lot of the previous "evil SJS" tales had ever happened - I suppose that really isnt that great a hardship - Imagine this story taking place in a universe without those and it's a solid thriller, though Asher's use of applied violence on citizen is one thing,on SJS judges quite another! Wonder what he is up to with his big wrench - off to the Undercity if he has any sense!
Feral and Foe remains enjoyable, sometimes falling over the wwong side of meta for me (side-quests), but solid entertainent again
Slaine is glorious to look at and exciting stuff, but not really what Pat was promising - finished in a way no other writer will ever be able to take him on? Erm, if I hadnt read Pat's Twitter, I'd still be eagerly awaiting the obvious Book 2 of this, resolving all those dangling threads. Not that it isnt an "end" of sorts, but a "final" end? I like the idea that Slaine [spoiler] can't stop the British Empire, beause, we know that's true, but he can "drag it's name in the dirt" - Slaine as Internet Troll? [/spoiler] Hmmm
Cover by Leonardo Manco:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzAULLnW8AIJ_3S?format=jpg&name=large)
Cover and Logo:
(https://dyn.media.forbiddenplanet.com/P2G7wiasAYHJM6eXDC2VbofEEKU=/trim/fit-in/779x1024/filters:format(webp)/https://media.forbiddenplanet.com/products/43/91/ec59866227395c672ca5c37608a26b9d2b86.jpeg)
Billing this as the end of Slaine? TBH it reads a bit more like ... just packing it in and leaving it there. Feels a bit like the ending of Lost if i'm honest.
Sorry. :(
Is that Ukko I spy on the cover?
A bit of a pointless cameo if he didn't even make the story, which finished in a rather odd fashion I'd say. I'm guessing this wasn't the planned ending as has been debated on here. Perhaps he was originally meant to die, go on to the Goddess etc. and it was changed to this ''sort of' ending.
It would have been nice to get some of the old characters back to tie up plot lines including his son and of course Ukko narrating the tale. Instead Slaine just sort of appears from nowhere to some people and has no confidants, supplies, food, a residence or toilet roll of any sorts and jumps around a lot flying on dragons.
The whole delay and breaks in the story including the regened prog, has made it all a bit of an anticlimax to a saga and it's wonderful finale artwork, which have deserved much better. I know it's a bit churlish to say, but there is a slight dip in quality of the art from Manco this week, which don't get me wrong is still superb, but holding it up to the first episodes it has a different and more loose feel to it.
Dredd is great and I love Tom Foster's fantastic art, the SJS vs Dredd tale is always good Clint Eastwood - Wild Western stuff for me.
Slaine dies in the final part of The Horned God. Later episodes are Ukko writing fan fiction to pay the bills, keep the memory of his friend alive and - most importantly - in the hope of getting off with Nest.
Quote from: The Corinthian on 17 April, 2021, 12:30:40 PM
Slaine dies in the final part of The Horned God...
But he does
actually die at the start of Demon Killer (and then again at the end).
...according to Ukko.
Touche! :lol:
I wonder if that last page of Slaine was an addition that caused the delay. Kinda feels like it.
A mixed bag this week. The good: Dredd, Feral and Foe carry on as before, providing great entertainment.
There other two stories aren't bad as such, it's just nothing much happens.
And given they are final episodes, that's not great really.
The 3riller was eminently forgettable, and indeed I'll probably not give it another thought.
As for Slaine, it doesn't really end, so much as just stop. It all feels very sudden, as if Pat just decided one day to just not write anymore, rather than wrap anything up. And given his recent Twitter pronouncements, may be that is the case....who knows? It all seems rather a tame end for one of 2000AD's leading characters. But to be honest I stopped caring years ago....which is kinda the bigger shame.
And as for Pat leaving the story in a place where it can't be continued - I don't get that. It seems to me, the only thing stopping it continuing is the agreement with Pat not to. So let's just leave it there and move on.
Sorry mean to include Thistlebone in the good.
yeah that was an anti-climax wasn't it? rest of the progs fantastic though
Well I was going to make snarky comments about being saved from Thrillpower Overload when having a double header on my return from holiday by the end of Slaine, but on reflection... well I'll come to that.
Dredd - I'm bloody loving this.
Thistlebone - Remains horrible in the best possible way.
Slaine - personally I've been done with this strip for a long time BUT this is of course worthy of more comment. Firstly it was interesting to see Tharg reluctant to let go - just referencing this as the last of the 'latest Slaine adventure' - I doubt he nows any more than us at this stage but maybe he just knows the fickle ways of Uncle Pat. Either way at first I thought this was an utterly lukewarm ending as has been suggested a stop in a chapter with more to come but little more. The more I've reflected on it assuming this is it it could be a lot worse.
There have been a couple or three points through Slaine's history that would have made for more complete full stops but this one works really well on its own terms and in the terms of the strip. Rather than being a definitive end, or Slaine dieing. Or Ukko keeling over and we have a declaration that no more was written or whatever. We get a nice open ended and his legended continued sort of ending which given the timeless and mythical nature of the series really works. Particularly underlined by the dynastic nature of those last couple of pages. I actually think the ending is really fitting and works. Slaine essentially riding off into the sunset into who knows what adventures.
Don't get me wrong while this series has had technically astonishing art its bored, as has Slaine for the longest time to be honest. It maybe that lack of emotional investment that allows me to appreciate this more open ending. Either have to be brutal and say glad its over, though sorry for those who still love it.
3riller - Chorus and the Ring talk about a 3riller in reverse. Often 3rillers open with a great intriguing opening episode, only to then slide away as the tale progresses to not quite land that potential. Here 2 episodes and 3 1/2 page in and I was astonished by just how run of the mill this was. A bit like 'Killer' (if you remember that one) as if someone was trying to cram as many standard 2000ad elements into a story without ever having actually read 2000ad....
...BUT THEN that last page and 1/2 kind saved it and added an extra level that I really appreciated and I think curiously open the world up and I want to see more. Assuming we won't did the last 1 1/2 make the preceding 13 1/2 worth while. Well no, nice art aside, but its fascinating to see a story I've had no interest in land so well!
Like a gymnast whose fallen off the beam twice, during a pretty low tarriff routine BUT then pulls off an pretty fantastic dismount. I mean its not going to save them from a low score, but you'd like to see them try again in case they can do it better next time!
Feral and Foe - Charmingly dangerous still.
What a fascinating Prog - think if I didn't really enjoy it, its certainly engrossed me and made me think - about craft at least!
I enjoyed this Slaine story. The above criticism reminds me of when I came back to the prog and found lots of people here being very negative about Return To Ro-Busters which I thought was great. It seems like some people never get bored of saying 'I don't Like Pat Mills latest stuff as much as the early stuff'.
It's more the fact that this was sold to us as being a satisfying finale to Slaine's adventures, rather than the opening story of a longer saga with a hasty wrap-up tacked onto the end - that's where the dissatisfaction comes in, I think.
The Tharg of old would have just ended it halfway through then spent years promising everyone it would be back very soon.
It reminds me of the end of Inferno. After an ongoing story that had lasted months, editorial decided enough was enough and there was then a one episode wrap up. In this case, Pat has decided to not do any more, and we get a page and a half "wrap up" to a saga that's been running for 40 odd years. It's nothing to do with thinking Pat's earlier stuff was better (even though it was). It's just that it doesn't really bring anything to a conclusion. I think Colin described it well....it leaves the reader to imagine further adventures for themselves, if they so wish.
I'm just waiting for the adventure of Kai MacSlaine - boy Druid! :p
Pretty sure Slaine will be back, but I don't think anyone can begrudge him a nice long rest.
Quote from: The Corinthian on 18 April, 2021, 12:29:43 PM
The Tharg of old would have just ended it halfway through then spent years promising everyone it would be back very soon.
Ha, I think I would've preferred that, just leave us wondering what might've been rather than risking the inevitable disappointment. To be honest I half-expected the final episode would just keep getting pushed further and further back in the schedules until everyone had forgotten about it.
Since this prog features the "last" ever Slaine episode here is an article related to some of the Slaine covers over the years: https://comicscene.org/2021/04/17/slaine-cover-gallery-and-competition-as-character-ends-in-2000ad/ (https://comicscene.org/2021/04/17/slaine-cover-gallery-and-competition-as-character-ends-in-2000ad/)
Quote from: Jacqusie on 17 April, 2021, 12:26:36 PM
Is that Ukko I spy on the cover?
A bit of a pointless cameo if he didn't even make the story, which finished in a rather odd fashion I'd say. I'm guessing this wasn't the planned ending as has been debated on here. Perhaps he was originally meant to die, go on to the Goddess etc. and it was changed to this ''sort of' ending.
If Slaine was supposed to die there was no hint of that throughout the rest of the story, which to be honest has been dramatically rather weak. The villains seemed to pose no credible threat to Slaine at any point, rendering the outcome of any battle between them totally moot. He defeats them all one by one and then just buggers off.
I think if Slaine does return with a new creative team, and it seems more than likely that it will at some point, I'd hope it would be a reboot rather than a continuation. Drop all the baggage of the last thirty-odd years and have him go back to being a wandering outcast again.
A good prog.
Dredd – The plot now has direct us in a different direction. As the main question is what are our good folk at the SJS up too? Tom Foster's art is still a delight to behold and Niemand's script keeps us alert.
Thistlebone – The plot now starts to focus on one person past and present. The question remines for me how real is Thistlebone? hallucinations or entity?
Slaine – The question always is: how do you end a series that runs for almost 40 years? So here we are with potentially the last step in our cometh the hour cometh the axe man and last page gives us our answer, an open-ended ending. This leaves the door not closed but still slightly open for more possibilities in the future. As a whole this was not the greatest Slaine story and felt very much like a Book 1 and a start of a new arc. The stand-out of the series was the glorious art of Manco. He spends a lot of time on the finer details, and I would like to see his return to the prog. Here we go "So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish"
Chorus – I enjoyed this caper, and it does end with a nice surprise. The world that Peaty created is quite interesting and just maybe we can revisit it.
Feral & Foe – Our finds has reached to next point in their adventure and needs a side quest to finish the main quest. Great story with great art.
Adding to comments on the ending of Slaine: [spoiler]The second last page tells us that life is a never-ending cycle. As you cut of the head a new one appears. Evil will always be with us. Slaine will be there. He will now always win but he will be there he will be an annoyance a hinderance, he will thwart their plans.[/spoiler]
So Sláine was really [spoiler]all the troublemakers in the world, all along? Is he Caroline Lucas?[/spoiler]
I found this arc pretty weak. Sláine long ago ended up going very heavy on the talk and that continues. But he felt like a character in a videogame using a cheat mode. There was no sense of threat whatsoever. I wasn't too keen on Chorus either.
The rest of the Prog was great. Yes, the SJS are awful, but they mostly always have been. Why they are tolerated at all in Justice Dept, I've no idea. Thistlebone is creepy and horrible. Feral & Foe continues to be great fun.
Sláine is a big deal for me, my favourite 2000AD strip of all (I may have mentioned this before), and I thought this last episode was full-on excellent. There was never any requirement for Sláine to die at the end, and while I regret that this may well be The End there is nothing in this splendid outing that disappoints. Pat has clearly been writing within the structure of a longer 6 to 8 book storyline, with this as a 5th part that more properly develops the family themes of Psychopomp and Archon, and Sláine's personal integration of his warring/despairing aspects, while leaving the Brutania plot hanging, albeit with a sketch for how it would resolve. The swathe of new characters in Slough Gorm, Alban and Brutus' family, the lack of any resolution for Kai despite the obvious opening that Duban presents, the introduction of the Web of Weird itself, all points at a middle chapter rather than a finale.
BUT.
Given Pat's real-world reason for walking away, I would far rather see threads left hanging than quickly tied up - much better to leave Sláine fully in the midst of something, than cut him off (as I had feared this story might do).
The conclusion we do get is a good one - Sláine asserts the power of family and identity over destiny and conquest, he embraces the three strands of his origins and his personality: Roth the proud and boastful warrior distracted by sloth, self-pity and indulgence; Macha the precise and cunning warrior driven by passion and ambition; Duban, the iconoclast mystic drawing on something larger than himself. And he articulates the importance of resistance even though the battle can't be won.
It helps that Manco has delivered one of the most complete and breathtaking set of pages in the victory of a strip that is defined more than any other by its magnificently diverse art. Some quality lettering choices from Annie too.
So I'll take it. And I'll take any more that Pat chooses to give us.
Meanwhile, I may have griped about yet another internicine squabble in Dredd, but this is just a solid engaging story, backed by some truly outstanding character art from Foster. His Dredd is a true wonder, his Dutch angles and creation of 3D space exemplary, but brother do I hate his lawmasters! Don't get me wrong, they are a strong and deliberate design, but to me they look like a cross between a ride-on mower and a mini steamroller. Other than that clash with my tastes, it's just glorious stuff.
Thistlebone delights. In the first series the one-eyed fox ensnared me, switched my experience from observer to participant. Here it's the birdcage. The wicker birdcage. The oddly haphazard, misshapen wicker cage. Pure magic, run this strip every week for a year and I'll be happy.
Chorus and the Ring has a decent ending, Peaty certainly gives Collins lots of fun things to create on the page, and he does. Nice touch with chopping off the feet to separate the pontiff from his gravity boots/slippers. But would I like to see what happens next? Maybe.
Feral & Foe has settled nicely into its slightly different more-knowing tone, helped along by a great character in the Necromancer. Can't beat a good quest to give a story a clear hook, and some walking songs never hurt. Very enjoyable.
-sigh- "Victory" = "History".
Is there an actual reason we can't edit posts in the Review threads, even in a very limited window? It is QUITE annoying, so I'd like to imagine there's a strong justification somewhere.
I've had the prog since Saturday and it was such a pleasure to be able to read it in bed instead of between jobs at work on a Monday or Tuesday, so full marks to everything.
More objectively, good prog but not brilliant.
Dredd – The inclusion of the evil SJS has made this less interesting than I hoped when it started, but it feels churlish to moan about that: this is a really engaging story with really tremendous art. If there's a late twist or not, there's nothing but sympathy for Asher with everything stacked against him and right now you're rooting for him to survive, although his prospects look bleak as hell.
Thistlebone – With the hinted at backstory starting to unfold (and it's not what we thought happened on the camping trip) I'm glad Tordel also picked up on the birdcage as that's what jumped out at me this episode: surely it's a callback to the bird in the cage-built-in-a-badger and it's sinister and starkly out of place in the setting. Is it real and is something very sinister going on here, or is Seema nuts?
Slaine – Where to stand on this? I've not been invested in Slaine since Brutania Chronciles went off the rails following it's brilliant start, and I've felt the strip was long in decline. This series has overall done nothing for me: despite the art being absolutely incredible it's just not been interesting, with super Slaine seemingly bereft of much personality (apart from one very nicely done episode midway through) killing everything with no effort whatsoever. I didn't want the strip to end, just to be more engaging: here it just sort of finishes but I think this is a decent finish for it as if he'd died it would, quite frankly, have been rubbish. There's been so much buildup and some mild bad feeling over the whole affair and I'm mainly just glad it's done and hopefully it'll all be for the better. Truly Fantastic art though and I hope we see Manco again.
Chorus – Overall this I think was a decent little tale. As mentioned before I loved the designs and artwork but the story was slight and the characters likewise.
Feral & Foe – Can only echo what I said last week, this is brilliant but it's verging on being too self-referential to the genre for me, here with the reference to the side quest... in the first series for example the joke around the tank was very nicely done, with a couple of references to tanks dropped before the reveal that this was basically a WoW / videogame reference and it felt clever. Here the meta jokes are more obvious, more quickfire and it's starting to drift into pure parody: I liked it better when it was still full of comedy and violence, but with knowing winks at fantasy conventions instead. That aside it's still a great strip, funny and looks incredible and it's the first thing I read every week.
Great cover. Took me a moment to realize it's not ink but the contents of his nose that Ukko is dribbling into Slaine's face.
'A Penitent Man' rattles along absorbingly. Love the economic crispness of the Niemand droid's prose, and Foster's artwork shines again, particularly the SJS agent left in an undignified pose with their foot caught in a ceiling strap. And does Lester's design owe something to the Power Tower maintenance droids in Father Earth? Thistlebone is definitely starting to flourish and I find myself looking forward to the increasingly bizarre images Simon Davis has cooked up for the final panel. Feral & Foe was as enjoyable a read as ever, and though Chorus and the Ring didn't really have me hooked, I've read verse.
I think that's everything, isn't it?
Oh yeah, almost forgot Slaine, LOL! I wonder what revisions were made to this final episode in the end? Just the addition of the final page? It would be nice to find out one day. Interesting decision to give it an open ending, particularly given Tharg's pointed claim that it's only the end of the 'latest' instalment. Maybe the behind-the-scenes fracas will eventually simmer down and... hmm, perhaps not. Anyway I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Jock's sensational Star-Scan, which more than the delayed denouement actually made me feel a little sad that everyone's favourite warped warrior has graced the prog for the last time.
(possibly)
Quote from: norton canes on 22 April, 2021, 01:53:27 PM
Oh yeah, almost forgot Slaine, LOL! I wonder what revisions were made to this final episode in the end? Just the addition of the final page? It would be nice to find out one day.
In the winter of year 4561 during the reign of
His Righteous and Glorious Emperor Lord ID10T the IX the last and precious pages of the lost scriptures of the book of Dragontamer (title unknown) will be discovered in the cookie-jar of Chimpsky the Genius III son's second last best friend.
Maybe the next sketch competition should be 'Finish a current 2000 AD strip in one frame'...
Quote from: norton canes on 22 April, 2021, 03:39:29 PM
Maybe the next sketch competition should be 'Finish a current 2000 AD strip in one frame'...
That would certainly be fun - get an entry in and you never know you could decide it!
Speaking of one panel endings, is The Mean Team the worst ending we've ever had? It sticks out for being so hilariously sudden, then there's Meltdown Man's "It was all a dream"... I was personally quite disappointed by Dante having a bit of a non-ending but it's not in the same league as those two.
Yeah, Meltdown Man was 48 instalments of genius bookended by a trite set-up and resolution. The original run of Invasion concluded pretty abruptly too, didn't it? A standard episode that ended with the US forces arriving all of a sudden to oust the Volgans.
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 22 April, 2021, 04:04:45 PM
Speaking of one panel endings, is The Mean Team the worst ending we've ever had? It sticks out for being so hilariously sudden
Yes, totally agree. Especially galling as those seven pages of
Mean Team's first episode are a masterclass in storytelling: peerless world building; multiple character sketches; team hierarchy explained; Bad Jack's motivation hinted at; a full semi final that shows us rules of play then a phenomenal ("Now pick up the flag and let's hit the showers") cliff hanger.
Incredible.
Contrast that with the final frame of
Return of the Mean Team...I mean it's enough to make you weep.
So. Farewell then
Slaine.
After thirty-eight years.
You did not
think it too many.
Neither did Pat Mills.
Until just now,
obviously.
I suppose he could be persuaded to write some more, but it would be a big axe.
Quote from: norton canes on 22 April, 2021, 06:39:54 PM
I suppose he could be persuaded to write some more, but it would be a big axe.
REPORTED.
Quote from: norton canes on 22 April, 2021, 06:39:54 PM
I suppose he could be persuaded to write some more, but it would be a big axe.
He might need the money to feather his nest.
---
Blackhawk's also in the running for sudden endings - first he gets teleported off Earth at the end of his Starlord run, then he gets soul-sucked out of the space-arena setting, then he gets entirely forgotten for the Ursa & Zog mushroom forest adventure because they're more interesting and finally chucked into a black hole strapped to some kind of galactic dream catcher. Comic's on drugs, man.
Well I thought that last episode of Slaine (especially that final page!) was a good ending. It did feel like a few episodes squeezed into one, but considering how drawn out some recent Slaine has been, I kinda liked that too!
Really hope Tharg can find some more work for the Manco droid (Manc-0?), his work is an absolute delight!
The always magnificent Oglaf (https://www.oglaf.com/) spoils future episodes of Thistlebone.
[EDIT: I initially posted the image here, but then it occurred to me that despite the honoured place of genitalia in the art of Simon Davis it might fall under the Godpleton/Frank/Thin Ice Statute, so here's an NSFW link instead (https://media.oglaf.com/comic/forbidden_woods.jpg)]
Always best to be careful - I got kicked off the Weekend Gardening forum for posting this absolute smut:
(https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/1/3-extreme-close-up-of-a-colourful-flower-stamen-and-stigma-wael-alreweie.jpg)
Couldn't let the likely end of Sláine go without comment.
The strip was key in my exploring my own identity and provided so many great story moments and arcs. It rightly deserves its place among the greats of the comic. Right up to the end its had some of the best artists doing some of their best work. I can't claim to have always enjoyed Pat's more decompressed style in a weekly format but it generally holds together read in whole form.
I can't think of a satisfying way to finish the story, but Dragonslayer, as TB points out, entirely fits what it's been about. The 'open' ending was a fitting exit, leaving Sláine with a purpose to keep going even against the tide of history and we are spared his final (mortal) demise so he remains a legendary character.
Surely the worst ending was Dan Dare?
(Oh hang on, it's not... actually... ended)
Did Flesh ever end?
Quote from: Art on 27 April, 2021, 12:07:08 AM
Did Flesh ever end?
No, apparently Pat will write a "last" chapter
From Pat's twitter related to Flesh:
Q: Are you and Clint Langley going to be working on a final chapter for Flesh? It ended on a heck of a cliffhanger...
A: Too busy just now. I'd need to review it and see if it required some rethink for the finale, both in story and art terms. Off hand, I'd say it needed it. I won't just knock it out. It's too important & I think Flesh deserves to go out on a high note, like Leo's Slaine.
All Pat Mills series should now end like the unpublished post-censorship two page wrap up to 'Kids Rule OK':
"Well, Savage/Deadlock/Satanus, this looks like where we part company. Good luck with your social work."
Quote from: The Corinthian on 27 April, 2021, 07:51:10 AM
All Pat Mills series should now end like the unpublished post-censorship two page wrap up to 'Kids Rule OK':
"Well, Savage/Deadlock/Satanus, this looks like where we part company. Good luck with your social work."
:lol:
My Top 3 for Prog 2228 :)
1st - Dredd - Joe vs corruption in SJS by Niemand works for me
2nd - Thistlebone - continues the uneasy reveal of more details
3rd - Feral & Foe - 'in' jokes had me chuckling
Cover in B/W:
(https://2000ad.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Slaine-Cover-color-step-6-803x1024.jpg)
Extraordinary.
Here's hoping our Styrofoam chomping overlord has something new lined up for Manco.
I've been playing catch up with the prog of late. One per evening starting with the regened one 2-3 months ago. I have to say, my main takeaway is how good it is of late. Minor quibbles aside, the galaxy's greatest is in good hands.
...
Just to add to that, loving the Dredd recently. And I do agree, side quests are a total waste of time.
Hope Leo Manco comes back to the prog on another thrill. Plus, I think I need to buy Book 1 of Thistlebone now even though I have all the progs. Just gorgeous.
I am not sure if this is the right spot but I just want to share this wonderful B/W cover for the collected Dragontamer by Leonardo Manco:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMW8AwkXoAEP1kS?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
That's feckin lovely. Wasn't too impressed with the story itself but the artwork is amazing