The Great Dante Readthrough Podcast

[JayzusB.Christ]

Bless you

Was just desperately trying to find a podcast to listen to during a fairly boring painting job - You're a lifesaver!

So glad to be of service! Let us know what you think! We're...apprehensive about this one.

Will do! Just about to crank up my old podcast app and get stuck in.

[JohnW]

We're...apprehensive about this one.

I have to say, that acted as an enticement.
Also, although it sounds perverse to say so, it's fascinating to hear creators being critical of their own work (or in this case, work with which they're closely connected).

[JayzusB.Christ]

Well, I enjoyed the podcast a lot! Simon's undisguised hostility towards the story just made for a more interesting listen. 

Personally I warmed to Dante a bit during the war storyline - I'd always found him to be a smug little smart-alec who still managed to get more chicks than I did beforehand, and the war knocked a lot of the ego out of him and made him more human.

Although, as Simon points out, a lot of the plot makes no sense at all.

[Funt Solo]

I haven't read Dante in a long time (the stories in question here - 22 years ago), so it's difficult to know whether it would stand up to a sort of "a little bit of sugar" argument. Like, on one side, glorifying war is bad. On the other hand, maybe getting people in on the entertainment ticket allows one to speak to other issues.

But, like I say, it's a long time since I've read those episodes.

[Illyana]

Irregulars! Keep your wonderful thoughts and reactions coming. Let us know if you want us to credit you as something other than your Board handle. Also let us know if you'd prefer we not use your comments on the podcast when you post them, a simple "not for broadcast" will suffice. Not that our little show is oh so famous that your opinions will be front page news or anything, but want to be respectful.

[Colin YNWA]

Wow, what a brilliantly intense episode. Its fascinating - and a little heartbreaking to hear Simon so disappointed and detached from his creation, so can't imagine how that feels for Simon. He is so passionate about his creation, and so close to the vision of what he wants it to be, that its almost painful to hear him so disappointed. Makes for wonderful, if uncomfortable listening. Thanks so much for being so open and honest, I hope things get better as you read on.

The fact that he says (and I paraphrase here, so hope this comes across okay) 'Really its Robbie's creation and story to tell,' says so much about the challenge of the artist as co-creator. The fact that practically, schedule and desire for momentum needs to be maintained behind a story means the artist, whose work takes so much longer, has to relinquish control and say things like (and again apologise for the misquote) 'Its really Robbie's more than mine', is a real problem when something becomes work for hire. I wonder if, in some utopian world, where Dante could have been creator owned does Simon think he'd have fought harder to take the story, and more importantly characters, down routes he was more comfortable with?

Finally (sorry I am wittering on) one specific I'm intrigued by is the distaste Simon has for the heroic pose Dante has after his brutal and horrible fght with Jenna. For me it really works as clearly he's being horrific, we've just seen it in so many way, but Dante has always been about contradictions. The juxtaposition of his actions and the words we read that go with the image really works. He has been terrible, but within all that there is a hero in Dante, somewhere, we're not seeing it now, but its there underlining him, trying to get out. In the brutal circumstances and with the horrible decisions he's made he doesn't know how to find it, he's not even really looking for it, but its there somewhere and the contrast makes the whole thing much more powerful to me as a reader.

This may well speak to how we as readers (me as a reader) build our view and interruption of character based on what we see, what is presented and where we are at and what we impose. The creator has a much clear, closer personal view of what they wanted them to be and when they (the characters) deviate from that, its much harder to take?

[Funt Solo]

I went back and re-read one of the war bits - and they have the infantry charging in a massive Romanov Crest formation - which is wonderfully silly, really.

"Okay, lads - we're going to charge the enemy - but before we do, I need you all to form up in an intricate shape large enough to be seen from space! Yes, tactically, it's fucking insane - but the boys up on the Potemkin said it would look awesome."

[The Monarch]

its a show of power i doubt the romanovs give a fuck for how many of those soldiers get shot at by the enemy

[Barrington Boots]

This was a very engrossing episode - I felt a bit of trepidation going in reading some of the other comments, but a fascinating listen. Simon does sound very raw about the direction the story has taken but as Colin said above, very open and honest and really interesting to hear these views from one of the creators.

It's hard to disagree with most of what he says about comics that try to be both gritty and grim and also superheroic: they generally do suck and this is tonally all over the place. On the final couple of pages of this episode I always felt that this was the most 'evil' representation we ever see: he's slicing Jena up (he boots her in her wounded leg, a very typical 'baddie' move) and just standing there with this horrible sneer - I don't he looks heroic at all: he looks a lot like his Father.
What Simon says about the horror of this scene is true though: it's a horrific scene and this is Dante at his absolute worst and it could definitely have emphasised that this is evil Dante more. Although, the very next story it's back to japes in England...
This isn't my favourite bit of Dante because Dante himself is indeed awful here. For him to Romanov up, and to do so in such a wholehearted way at this point in the story doesn't really make any sense. I always kind of assumed he as trying to commit suicide by war, but by killing hundreds of people..? Not very cool. Elena aside I've also never been a fan of the irregulars either: they're an absolutely horrible bunch, especially the Groznys, so basically we've got evil Dante leading a bunch of murderous scumbags and I definitely feel Jena is more of the hero here.
The other bit I don't like is when it all goes a bit George and Lynne with Jena's top. I love Burns but that is well off. I definitely have a new appreciation for his Starfleet style robot now though, not sure if I ever really saw that before!
It's definitely made me read the story with a fresh pair of eyes, really enjoyed it.

Also great to hear someone described as a complete waz.

What is the recommended intense smokey whisky for the Podcast? Inquiring minds are interested.

[Colin YNWA]

Also great to hear someone described as a complete waz.

No, I scream NO! We can not endorse this, and I'm sorry to be brutal, lazy use of the word 'waz', it denied us the full beauty of the all the more glorious, complete 'Wazzock'.

[Illyana]

Irregulars! Thank you so much for your thoughts, keep them coming, we like including your opinions in our broadcast. Next ep is up!

http://simonfraser.net/tgdrpodcast/2022/11/10/ep-22-battleship-potemkin

[Illyana]

Hello Irregulars! Happy Friday Podcast day. We have a Dante Xmas Special story and a Dante hangs with a Vampire Slayer tale!

http://simonfraser.net/tgdrpodcast/2022/11/10/ep-23-one-last-beguiling

[Illyana]

Or, you know a Dante Xmas Special story and a Dante beds some enemy daughters tale! ::Face palm::

[JayzusB.Christ]

Looking forward to these - once again it's a long work day but your podcasts always brighten them up.

[Colin YNWA]

Just finished Episode 22 and its another belter. Nice to have Simon feeling a lot more positive and yeah there's a lot going on. Really do need to get back up to speed and up to date. I reckon weekend house work will catch me up!