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Rip-offs

Started by GordonR, 28 January, 2002, 05:55:20 PM

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GordonR

>>It's funny how you can get away with so much with books and films but music is incredibly tight. Maybe it's just easier to prove.<<

That's an interesting point.  Book and movie plots are basically insubstantial concepts that can't be nailed down to hard proveable facts, but music can be written down in notes, bars, chords etc and you can put two pieces of wrotten music together and visibly show that there's too many points of similarity between them to be coincidental.  I think that's how famous musical plagiarim lawsuits like those involving George Harrison's My Sweet Lord and the one for the Ghostbusters theme song were successfully proven.

GordonR

Oh yeah, and on the Dredd-Robocop thing...

They are suspiciously similar.  Stern, faceless, helmet-wearing unemotional law enforcement guardian of a horrible crime-ridden (near, in the case of Robocop) future city.  Much black humour and dark social satire.

That might all be coincidental, but the kind of smoking gun is the fact that the producers of Robocop were at one time involved in trying to get an earlier Dredd movie off the ground.  (The one that Arnold Schwazenegger had been approached to star in, I think.)  That version fell through, and then, lo and behold, they went off and made Robocop instead.

The making of the Dredd movie book has more info on this, including a story about one of the producers who stayed with the Dredd project confronting his sheeping-looking former business partner at the Robocop premiere.  

Hollywood also thought Dredd and Robocop were too similar.  The success of Robocop basically killed off any chance of a Dredd movie for the next few years after that, since it was felt that  - ironically - everyone would just think Dredd was a Robocop knock-off.

Mudcrab

I think I've said it before, but the dead giveaway for me is when (Robocop) says "Your move, creep".
NEGOTIATION'S OVER!

Mudcrab

I think you also have to consider inspiration. Plenty music has been influenced by styles from the past in a good way, as opposed to the blatantly ripped off. It's the same with books. Dozens of authors have taken on board the Tolkein 'universe' and used it in different ways to very good effect. The use of certain creatures in his fantasy work are all probably derived from old tales, legends and whatever anyway. I feel a drift towards Pat Mills here and the superb way he used Celtic mythology in Slaine. But I won't do that.

Oh dear, you could talk for hours on inspiration/plagiarism/standing on the shoulders of giants/art/money. The sky is most definitely grey!!
NEGOTIATION'S OVER!

Thread Zero

I reckon most films and movies only have a few storylines. Less than 10! Same as there are only a few notes in music.

It's all about rearranging the notes in a diffrent order.

With movies in the US, you have to register your work with an organization called the WGA and/or get it copyrighted before you try to sell it. This helps in case someone challenges you and claims you nicked their ideas, scripts etc. You have proof you wrote it at a certain time.

I don't know how it works with music.
But let's face it, who wants to nick Westlife's music?

scojo

paulvonscott

I have to say even with 'your move creep' it still sounds just as much like a dirty harry line to me.  It would be easier to say both movies were dirty harry in the future rather than connect them with each other.

I've read that bit about the Dredd/Robocop film history before.  You still can't convince me :)  That's not to say that people thwarted in making a Dredd film didn't decide to do their own thing, which I think is fair enough.

They are both cops in a futuristic city, two entirely different characters with helmets for entirely different reasons that don't look at all the same who have some of the same dirty harry-esque one liners, which are delivered differently.

The fact that robocop was succesful, spawned two cinema released sequels, some comic books and a tv series, should, perhaps have been seen by people as a reason to do a Dredd movie, rather than a reason NOT to do a movie.

As people obviously enjoyed a futuristic Dirty Harry movies, it doesn't really matter if people think it's ripped off or not, and if people wanted to get all legalistic about it, there's proof.  

There are always plenty of movies out at the same time that are similar.  Were there any robocop Dredd movie comparisons in the end when the Stallon effort came out?  I didn't hear any (though who knows there may have been a few) and it's not as if nobody remembers Robocop anymore.

I think it's all just a bit of sour grapes from the people who owned Dredd to complain about Robocop as they were ultimately unable to do a Dredd movie themselves, and of course when they did one eventually, it was pretty pants in most fans eyes.

Of course in a few years there will be as many Dredd films as robocop ones and while Robocop was a fun film with 2 duff sequals hopeful we'll have a duff film with two pretty good followups.

Where's Robocop now?  He's probably been recycled into a vending machine.

"Your coke, creep!"

Jim_Campbell

> That version fell through, and then, lo and
> behold, they went off and made Robocop
> instead.

I also remember reading an interview with Sam Hamm (first Tim Burton Batman movie screenwriter) who said, quite explicitly, when discussing the comics-to-film process that the Robocop writers had Dredd firmly in mind ...

Cheers

Jim
Stupidly Busy Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

paulvonscott

No doubt very true, it's a shame that the people who did robocop didn't do Dredd, at least it would have been fun.  Weller can talk properly as well!

How did that deal actually fall through?

You don't get many Robocop fans (I don't even know if it has a following in the same way as something like Dredd) pointing out similarities with Mechanismo I bet :)  Dredd, a series which has consistently taken (sometimes blatantly stolen) ideas from other works (both for parody or otherwise).  

*"They are suspiciously similar.  Stern, faceless, helmet-wearing unemotional law enforcement guardian of a horrible crime-ridden (near, in the case of Robocop) future city.  Much black humour and dark social satire."

How about...

"Policeman dressed in black, with the authority to kill in a futuristic city, carrying a weapon that shoots six types of bullet and criminals that change identity in The New You face/body changing parlour."  Logans Run (book)

Jim_Campbell

> "Policeman dressed in black, with the
> authority to kill in a futuristic city, carrying a
> weapon that shoots six types of bullet and
> criminals that change identity in The New
> You face/body changing parlour."
> Logans Run (book)

Not read it, but that _is_ a bit fishy, innit!

Cheers

Jim
Stupidly Busy Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

paulvonscott

There was some other stuff in there, but I have a bad memory.  As it's a very good book (and different) to the film I'd reccomend it to anyone.

You couldn't say Dredd was ripped of from it, but certain elements were 'borrowed' for Dredd.