Hi folks,
Normal fare at the beginning of any tourney. A thread to set things up, explain the format of the tourney, rules etc, etc - basically just a place I can link to in the votes with explanations about what the heck we are up to.
So I'm hoping (gulp little behind in set-up on this one so hoping I get this done on time, figure if I say I will, I'll have no choice!) to kick this one off Monday - let's see what the next few day bring and I might have to push things back a week... we'll see.
So hopefully to be included here:
Format of qualifying
What stories will be included in each 'territory/region' (this will be explained in format)
What isn't included
What will happen after qualifying - the final tournament - its all new, all shiny... well kinda
Rules(ish)
Stick with it - this one might get bumpy as I'm NOWHERE near as prepared as normal!
Great looking forward too this one !!!
👍🏻 Looking forward to this
I can foresee some difficult decisions ahead, depending on which stories get matched against each other...
Am def. gonna cram in some re-reading, especially of the more recent era.
I truly love 'The Kreeler Conspiracy' but it's a real oddball in the context of wider Strontium Dog - I venture it might not even count in a tourney such as this..?
Be interesting to see how this is organised. I wonder about the rounds, are we talking about 'era's? I can see some mileage there:
- Starlord era;
- Starlord to "Portrait of a Mutant"
- ... to Rage;
- ... to Final Solution; [actually quite a long stretch from Rage to FS ... tales like "Bitch", "Royal Affair" and "Rammy" had more of a comedic tinge to them than some of the other tales of this time so perhaps a break there?]
- Revival Era.
Spin off rounds with Strontium Dogs / Tales from the Doghouse / Middenface tales, Judgement Day, ...
Quote from: Tjm86 on 15 July, 2021, 09:20:12 AM
Be interesting to see how this is organised. I wonder about the rounds, are we talking about 'era's? I can see some mileage there:
Well let's answer that...whether its interesting or just baffling I'll let you decide...
Format - Part 1So see since we in England managed to fuck up the Euro's by being a violent hate filled mod I've decided this isn't formated in tribute to that and instead a mini World Cup, complete with 'region' based qualifying.
Rather than those regions being continents, or vaguely aligned geo-political groups. I've organised all Strontium Dog stories (gulp I hope) into groups based on story length, time and place of publication. There will be mini tourneys in each 'region' from which we will get 16 into the final tourney.
So the 'regions' are:
Epic = Stories (from the Prog) more than 10 episode's long (so 11 or more) - 10 entrants
Long = Stories (from the Prog) between 5 - 10 episodes long - 10 entrants
Short = Stories (fromm the Prog) between 1 - 4 episodes long - 9 entrants
Relaunch = Okay when I say from the Prog I mean classic era - up to Johnny's death, post relaunch stuff goes into a separate category ... this one...here - 9 entrants
Resurrection = Okay when I post relaunch I mean post relaunch to resurrection, the resurrection and beyond stuff I've put in here - 7 entrants...
maybe... I need help here[\i]...
Annuals and Specials = well it speaks for itself stuff from annuals and specials - 12 entrants
Starlord = The strips from Starlord - 7 entrants
So more to come on this BUT let's run a list to see if anyone can spot stuff I've missed!
Nah, that works too. By 'relaunch' are you talking about post Death of Wulf (Rage) through to Final Solution? Or do you mean from Prog 2000-ish until Life and Death?
The only thing that seems missing to me is Tales from the Doghouse / Strontium Dogs ...
Quote from: Tjm86 on 15 July, 2021, 02:44:02 PM
Nah, that works too. By 'relaunch' are you talking about post Death of Wulf (Rage) through to Final Solution? Or do you mean from Prog 2000-ish until Life and Death?
Kreeler Conspiracy through to Mork Whisperer, surely?
Sounds about right .... but don't call me Shirley.
:lol: I meant 'presumably!'
All good things come to those that wait... and so...
Entrants - Epic and Long
If anyone spot any errors please shout out quick so I can juggle me qualifying set up asap...
For Epic I get:
Journey into Hell 15
Portrait of a Mutant 19
The Moses Incident 11
Outlaw 23
Max Bubba 21
Rage 21
Bitch 25
The Stone Killers 13
The Final Solution 28
Judgement Day* 26
*Come at me... come at me...
For Long I get:
The Galaxy Killers 9
The Schicklgruber Grab 7
The Kid-Knee Caper 6
Big Bust of 49 9
Incident on Mayger Minor 7
The Royal Affair 5
The Killing 10
Slavers of Drule 10
The Rammy 10
The No-Go Job 8
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 15 July, 2021, 05:27:05 PM
Judgement Day* 26
It's twenty episodes including the six in the Meg, not 20 plus 6.
Looks good though from a purely "Epci feel" sense, to me the cut off would be Journey into Hell and above as Epic, with Moses Incident and Stone Killers both feeling more kinship with The Killing & The Slavers of Drule
Quote from: I, Cosh on 15 July, 2021, 05:42:10 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 15 July, 2021, 05:27:05 PM
Judgement Day* 26
It's twenty episodes including the six in the Meg, not 20 plus 6.
Arrrrhhh okay numbers boy.
Thanks for the correction.
Quote from: Leigh S on 15 July, 2021, 05:45:31 PM
Looks good though from a purely "Epci feel" sense, to me the cut off would be Journey into Hell and above as Epic, with Moses Incident and Stone Killers both feeling more kinship with The Killing & The Slavers of Drule
Yeah I do agree but I went with the Dredd Epic benchmark (controversial as that was!). It would make the qualifying neater as I'd have 8 (Epic) and 12 (Long) and I could make that work a bit better maybe. What do others think?
Inclined to agree with that, although Epic is such a loaded term its tempting to say that should of apply to 20+ parters and have another bracket from 10-20 and more work for you there Colin...
Your rules and we'll work to them, at the end of the day!
How good are those two lists though. I know my favourite, but almost every one a bona fide classic.
Yep, I agree - you could make a case for Moses, maybe, but Stone Killers doesn't really feel epic in any sense.
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 15 July, 2021, 06:04:38 PM
...and have another bracket from 10-20 and more work for you there Colin...
That makes a lot of sense but alas can naff off! Far to muchy effort for my ailin' noggin. I'll work with the shift as suggested though. I'll post the others as is and then get overall feedback before finalising the change (just in case other changes bump against this), but for now consider this carried...
Entrants Short and Relaunch
I get for Short:
Death's Head 4
Mutie's Luck 1
The Doc Quince Case 4
The Bad Boys Bust 4
The Gronk Affair 4
Smiley's World 2
Warzone! 3
A Sorry Case 4
Incident on Zeta 1
For Relaunch its:
Kreeler Conspiracy 13
Roadhouse 8
The Tax Dodge 9
The Headly Foot Job 4
Traitor to his Kind 10
Shaggy Dog Story 5
The Glum Affair 11
Blood Moon 13
The Mork Whisperer 10
IF we are including The Royal Affair at 24 pages as a long one, then surely Top Dogs is also "long" at 29 pages?
You could bump TRA into short, keeping you an even number of long and also giving you an even number of short....
(sorry to be a pedant, but me being a pedant is what Bolt would have wanted!) :)
For relaunch there is also the "The Sad Case", though thats a one off at 10 pages
Okay, so first round of the Tourney is a face-off to decide how we're going to break up the tourney?
Round 1: epic vs short
Round 2: epic vs era
Round 3: epic at 24 pages vs epic at 25 pages
Round 4: published during a full moon vs during a gibbous moon
Round 5: published during a Tory govt vs a Labour govt
Round 6: before the staples in the prog vs after the staples in the prog.
Quote from: Leigh S on 15 July, 2021, 07:26:18 PM
IF we are including The Royal Affair at 24 pages as a long one, then surely Top Dogs is also "long" at 29 pages?
You could bump TRA into short, keeping you an even number of long and also giving you an even number of short....
(sorry to be a pedant, but me being a pedant is what Bolt would have wanted!) :)
I kinda don't want all the qualifying group to be the same as the idea is to mix things up a bit.
Quote from: Tjm86 on 15 July, 2021, 07:43:07 PM
Okay, so first round of the Tourney is a face-off to decide how we're going to break up the tourney?
Round 1: epic vs short
Round 2: epic vs era
Round 3: epic at 24 pages vs epic at 25 pages
Round 4: published during a full moon vs during a gibbous moon
Round 5: published during a Tory govt vs a Labour govt
Round 6: before the staples in the prog vs after the staples in the prog.
Uhhhh good idea!
Entrants Annuals and Specials + Starlord
I get Annuals and Specials to...
Strontium Dog: Annual 1982
In the Doghouse (1983)
Incident at the Back o' Beyond
The Beast of Milton Keynes
Fever
Complaint
Incident at the End of the World
Top Dog
Assault on Trigol 3
The Town that Died of Shame
Incident at the Birth of the Universe
The Sad Case (Prog 2001)
Starlord I have...
Max Quirxx 2
Papa Por-ka 3
No Cure for Kansyr 2
Planet of the Dead 3
Two-Faced Terror 3
Demon Maker 3
The Brain 2
- In the Doghouse (2KA'83) is a feature rather than a story.
- What you have as "Strontium Dog: Annual 1982" I named [The Queux Quest].
I also have these on my list:
[Eye of Doom] - Starlord Summer Special
Funfair of Fear - Starlord Annual 1980
[Crazy Krulgor] - Starlord Annual 1981
[The Collector] - Starlord Annual 1982 [reprinted in FCBD6]
Quote from: Funt Solo on 15 July, 2021, 08:33:57 PM
- In the Doghouse (2KA'83) is a feature rather than a story.
- What you have as "Strontium Dog: Annual 1982" I named [The Queux Quest].
I also have these on my list:
[Eye of Doom] - Starlord Summer Special
Funfair of Fear - Starlord Annual 1980
[Crazy Krulgor] - Starlord Annual 1981
[The Collector] - Starlord Annual 1982 [reprinted in FCBD6]
Arh Funt I knew you'd do me proud.
So quick question to folks - should the Starlord annuals and special stories be in 'Annuals and Specials' OR Starlord - I'm leaning toward latter???
EDIT - Ignore that for reasons I won't bore you you with I'm keeping all the Starlord stuff together! So I've added these to the Starlord list.
What about Maeve the Many-Armed? And How the Gronk Got His Heartses?
Just kidding! :P
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 15 July, 2021, 07:57:27 PM
Uhhhh good idea!
I'm going out on a limb here but it feels a little like either:
a) you're humouring me
b) you're trying politely to say "eff off, you're having a giraffe"
c) this was something you'd already considered but didn't think anyone would take seriously
my vote is for b personally but feel free to let me down gently.
Given this is a tribute to the venerable Dave, shouldn't all Stront Zarjaz and Dogbreath Alpha outings be considered cannon for this enterprise?
Probably not, but seeing Colin's head explode would be worth the post!
Funny enough I've already had a lovely exchange in 'Messages' on this very subject. I'd love to but for all sorts of reasons it wasn't practical alas.
Sorry.
the starlord specials & annuals are very Starlord!
Need a little help here...
Resurrection and beyond
Finally For Resurrection and beyond I've kinda gone for:
The Life and Death of Johnny Alpha 1 11
The Life and Death of Johnny Alpha 2 9
The Life and Death of Johnny Alpha 3 10
The Life and Death of Johnny Alpha 4 10
The Stix Fix 10
Repo Men 11
The Son 9
Now here's where I'm in a quandary. I've split out Life and Death as it feels a bit too long and spralling and I think thematically it's really in two halves with the resurrection almost a necessity that morphs into a device by the end - but is that fair? If I'm honest I'd like to bundle Parts 1 and 2 together and 3 and 4 as that feels a more natural divide and it's one the trades use BUT is that any better?
Any ideas so I can work out how to run this one, by which I mean split up The Life and Death of Johnny Alpha???
Maybe all the resurrection stories together with the last few separate calling it something like "The Beyond and after" or "The Final Frontier"
Quote from: Tjm86 on 15 July, 2021, 07:43:07 PM
Okay, so first round of the Tourney is a face-off to decide how we're going to break up the tourney?
Round 1: epic vs short
Round 2: epic vs era
Round 3: epic at 24 pages vs epic at 25 pages
Round 4: published during a full moon vs during a gibbous moon
Clearly unworkable.
At which point does a gibbous moon become a full moon? A much more practical idea would be to pit those published under a waxing moon versus those against a waning moon. All Colin would have to do would be to look up the cover dates of the relevant progs, categorise them by 'date comes off of sale' and 'date goes on sale' (as what the actual cover date refers to has changed over the years)* Then quickly look up a calendar of moon phases for the past forty-three years and hey presto - we have a workable system. Simplicity itself.
* don't forget to consider what day of the week the prog is 'in orbit'.
Quote from: sheridan on 16 July, 2021, 08:40:27 AM
Quote from: Tjm86 on 15 July, 2021, 07:43:07 PM
Okay, so first round of the Tourney is a face-off to decide how we're going to break up the tourney?
Round 1: epic vs short
Round 2: epic vs era
Round 3: epic at 24 pages vs epic at 25 pages
Round 4: published during a full moon vs during a gibbous moon
Clearly unworkable.
At which point does a gibbous moon become a full moon? A much more practical idea would be to pit those published under a waxing moon versus those against a waning moon. All Colin would have to do would be to look up the cover dates of the relevant progs, categorise them by 'date comes off of sale' and 'date goes on sale' (as what the actual cover date refers to has changed over the years)* Then quickly look up a calendar of moon phases for the past forty-three years and hey presto - we have a workable system. Simplicity itself.
To be fair all I'd have to do is message Funt Solo - I bet he's done this already!
Any mileage in entering 'Life and Death' as just a single massive story? This is in line with the Final Solution, that was laso published in chunks originally...
But failing that I'd be in favour of splitting 'Life and Death' into two chunks, as per the trade collections.
Y'know, if you're asking.
Getting excited for all this! Lucky there's a sunny weekend coming up so I can hide indoors reading great comics.
How about we split these down into individual pages instead, rather than do it by story? I'm pretty sure you can organise that Colin and then in only 2,0000 weeks we'll know the best page of SD art of all time!
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 16 July, 2021, 11:27:36 AM
How about we split these down into individual pages instead, rather than do it by story? I'm pretty sure you can organise that Colin and then in only 2,0000 weeks we'll know the best page of SD art of all time!
Be bold. My vote is for individual panels.
(back on topic - I'd struggle to figure out which bits are which if Life and Death is being split in to four sections).
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 16 July, 2021, 11:27:36 AM
How about we split these down into individual pages instead, rather than do it by story? I'm pretty sure you can organise that Colin and then in only 2,0000 weeks we'll know the best page of SD art of all time!
You laugh but trust on my list....
Book I of LaDoJA definitely is distinct from the others, being all about Middenface, Precious and the hunt for Johnny's corpse. The Project is all industrial espionage-type stuff; Mutant Spring and Dogs of War are all about the Second Mutant War, and have a very different flavour to Middenface and Precious' galactic jaunts.
Brace yourself this one... well its not straight forward but that's half there fun...
There is a spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1F3W5KkY37ZcH39J93nq5hR5_RhPIvaOapv7sZ0EmvUQ/edit?usp=sharing) which makes things cleaer... or ... well... will when its finished!
Format Part 2
Okay so there are 7 qualifying 'regions' and 16 places in the final tourney proper - so how's that gonna work I hear you cry? Well remember this is working like World Cup qualifying, so it's not going to be straightforward and there will be weighting to it all. So just as more European and South American teams proportionally qualify so here. And yeah qualification is run slightly differently in the different regions and I've gone for a similar thing here. So the qualifying mini tourneys (with a quick adjustment for the change in the Epic and Long go like this.... and now a couple of others)
Lots of people will disagree with my distribution but I'm FIFA and yes I'm as corrupt and twisted as they are - so my rule is final and I'm financially committed to them!
Epic = 8 teams - 3 to qualify
Two groups of four, each Epic in a group playing the others. First of each group qualifies by right. The two second placed storys to go to a play-off for the final spot.
Long = 12 teams - 4 to qualify
3 groups of four, each story in the group playing all the others in that group. First in each group qualifies. All second place story enter a three way play off.
Short = 9 teams - 2 to qualify, 1 to plays-off
Three groups of three. The winners of each group and the best of the runners up go into a play-offs
Relaunch = 9 teams - 2 to qualify 1 to play-off
Three groups of three. The winners of each group and the best of the runners up go into a play-off.
Short and Relaunch Play-off.
The best runners up in each of Short and Relaunch group so into a head to head for a bonus place
Resurrection = ?? teams - 1 to qualify - 1 into play off
Keeping this one simple with just one straight vote (but I'll do an exciting point scoring system for this one). Second place into play-off
Annuals and Specials = 12 - 1 to qualify - 1 into play off
Keeping this one simple with just one straight vote (but I'll do an exciting point scoring system for this one). Second place into play-off
Starlord = 12 - 1 to qualify - 1 into play off
Keeping this one simple with just one straight vote (but I'll do an exciting point scoring system for this one). Second place into play-off.
Resurrection / Annuals and Specials / Starlord play-off
So the second placed story in each of the three 'regions' go to a three way round robin play off for the final spot.
Over complex - YES. But one of the things I love about World Cup qualifying is when you get a play-off between Iran and Australian to see who qualifies so I'm going for something like that!
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 16 July, 2021, 08:54:25 AM
To be fair all I'd have to do is message Funt Solo - I bet he's done this already!
You know I
was disappointed that the final part of Blood Moon was published during a waning crescent! It's as if Tharg isn't even paying any attention to the phases of the moon during a moon-themed story. Don't get me started on Age of the Wolf!
---
In other news, I wonder about the inclusion of Trial Run (FCBD8 - Regened), Acceptable Losses (2183 - Regened) and Once Upon a Time in der Vest (2212)?
I think the Life and Death saga should be split as published, with a brief summary for the voters.
Haha -mental.
Love it, and I'm sure Dave would too!
Just chuck all the story names into a digital hat and do a totally random draw. Some short stories are better than some epics anyway.
Winners go into another digital hat etc etc...
Quote from: Dog Deever on 17 July, 2021, 03:00:27 PM
Just chuck all the story names into a digital hat and do a totally random draw. Some short stories are better than some epics anyway.
Winners go into another digital hat etc etc...
What after spendign like 87 hours coming up with this nonsense! No way - crazy and over complex it may be but the basic format is set!
It will be very interesting though to see how story format plays out and how my assumptions hold.
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 17 July, 2021, 03:27:24 PM
What after spendign like 87 hours coming up with this nonsense! No way - crazy and over complex it may be but the basic format is set!
It will be very interesting though to see how story format plays out and how my assumptions hold.
Not sure which category it's going to be in, but I'll be voting for City of the Damned ;)
Rules
Okay so most of the votes will be a straight regular vote - BUT there will be a few variations and there's going to be GROUP TABLES - get ya wall charts ready!
Tables
In Epic, Long, Short and Relaunch there will be tables (of different sizes) and each story will have a straight vote (you, the voter, just pick your favourite and the one with most votes wins). There will be:
3 points for a win
1 point each for a draw
0 points if you lose
I will keep a running count of votes, as a decider if needed. Teams with the most points comes top. If there's a tie total votes scored will decide.
All in voting
Resurrection, Annuals and Specials, Starlord - each of these regions all tales are in a single vote. You, the voter, have 5 votes each to distribute how you want in that pool. So you can give all 5 votes to one story, 4 to one and 1 to another. Or one point to five stories. Any combination of whole numbers you like. It's up to you.
Stories are then ranked in order based on the number of votes they get. It's as simple as that.
Can't be arsed to write out more rules BUT will if folks have questions. Basically things always seem to run smoothly and I doubt any bugger reads them!
Sounds fun, bring it on!
Hey BBC - that's my gig...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/58153787 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/58153787)
I felt this was appropriate to post it here, some Johnny action by Patrick Goddard:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8_fqHiX0AU6L1q?format=jpg&name=large)
That's REALLY something. I'm not normally the biggest Goddard guy but that's spot on.
Yeah that is just brilliant. Patrick Goddard is such a talent.
Wow that's a real beauty broodblik!