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Sideshow Vote: Who are you?

Started by broodblik, 25 April, 2022, 04:19:17 AM

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broodblik

What is Dredd? That is our question here how you see the man that is the law:
-   Hero
-   Villian
-   Not black or white something off both
-   Duty driven irrespective the cost
When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.

Old age is the Lord's way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death's in case we didn't take the hint.

Colin YNWA

Its kinda the bottom two... I'll come back to you...

AlexF

Mainly the hero, but with frequent sense that he's not a good person, and very occasional stories that show he is, by virtue of the system he is part of, a total villain.

The Mind of Wolfie Smith

far right villain in sociopathic denial.

Dandontdare

#4
If we want to get technical, Wikipedia (I know) defines a hero as:
QuoteA hero (heroine in its feminine form) is a real person or a main fictional character who, in the face of danger, combats adversity through feats of ingenuity, courage, or strength...The original hero type of classical epics did such things for the sake of glory and honor. Post-classical and modern heroes, on the other hand, perform great deeds or selfless acts for the common good instead of the classical goal of wealth, pride, and fame.

That fits, if you consider the violent oppression of a police state to be in the common good, which Dredd most sincerely does. He's certainly not a tragic hero in the Aristotelian or Shakespearean sense (a great man doomed to a tragic end by a fatal flaw), nor is he an anti-hero (who may do good but for selfish or evil motives). Wiki did suggest the intriguing "anti-villain" or sympathetic villain:

QuoteThe sympathetic villain or anti-villain is one with the typical traits of a villainous character but differs in their motivations. Their intentions to cause chaos or commit evil actions is driven by an ambiguous motivation or is not driven by an intent to cause evil. Their intentions may coincide with the ideals of a greater good, or even a desire to make the world a better place, but their actions are inherently evil in nature. An anti-villain is the opposite of an anti-hero. While the anti-hero often fights on the side of good, but with questionable or selfish motives, the anti-villain plays a villain's game, but for a noble cause in a way that the audience or other characters can sympathize with. They may be more noble or heroic than an anti-hero, but the means to achieve their ends are often considered exploitative, immoral, unjust, or simply evil.

(Sadly, none of the suggested examples are much like Dredd - Daenerys Targaryen, Eren Yeager, Itachi Uchiha, Killmonger, Lelouch Vi Britannia, Magneto, Doctor Octopus, Sandman, Severus Snape, Thanos. (Again, I know), but they are all anti-villains contrasted against heroes, Dredd's the protagonist, an anti-villain against worse villains)

IMO, he is a hero within the parameters he was bred and programmed for. He is the ideal of how the Judge system was supposed to turn out but sadly 99% of the force are merely human, which is why MC1 isn't an oasis of peace and happiness. If every judge was as dutiful and dedicated as Dredd, maybe it would be, or maybe the entire philosophy is flawed as it misunderstands human nature.

So hell, I don't know. I do know that if some creep was holding a laz-knife to my throat, I'd rather see Dredd riding up than my elected representative.

Funt Solo

It depends on the story being told - as Dredd is not always the protagonist.

In The Apocalypse War, he's the hero. In Working Girl, he's an antagonist, and Mona Plankhurst is the hero. He also gets to play mentor roles, like in Carry the Nine - where Maitland is the protagonist.

By being fairly brutal, single-minded and monk-like (he doesn't seem to have personal desires), he's able to act in ways that seem heartless (as he applies impersonal and hurtful laws without remorse) or kind (in using those same laws to support underdogs), depending on the needs of the story.

++ A-Z ++  coma ++

Richard

Exactly. In a story about the Dark Judges, he's unequivocally a hero. In a story about democrats, he's very much the villain. There are degrees in between.

PsychoGoatee

#7
Quote from: Funt Solo on 25 April, 2022, 10:55:41 PM
It depends on the story being told - as Dredd is not always the protagonist.

In The Apocalypse War, he's the hero. In Working Girl, he's an antagonist, and Mona Plankhurst is the hero. He also gets to play mentor roles, like in Carry the Nine - where Maitland is the protagonist.

By being fairly brutal, single-minded and monk-like (he doesn't seem to have personal desires), he's able to act in ways that seem heartless (as he applies impersonal and hurtful laws without remorse) or kind (in using those same laws to support underdogs), depending on the needs of the story.

I haven't read Working Girl yet, I see it's by Kenneth Niemand. That reminds me, if Dredd is in a particularly negative light, I tend to take it with a grain of salt if not by Wagner. Kind of like how people pointed out Grant's Dredd was often used to kind of show that side in a not so subtle way, which didn't always fit with Wagner's take. It's so tough to pull off that subtlety, even for great writers.

If I need a label, for me antihero works. An atypical central character. Antihero articles tend to cite classic Eastwood on Leone movies as well as Dirty Harry. Influences on Dredd of course. Antiheroes often have a code, it's just different from ours.

For sure he fits different kinds of stories, and is in the antagonist role at times. I think it's tough to sum up what's so special about this character. He's larger than life, at times he's not very flashy, and the stories can be grim or darkly humorous. I love him, that's for sure. Part of the fun for me is not judging Dredd by our real world standards.

Maybe a funny comparison, but he's a bit like Godzilla. Another beloved character. Sometimes he may destroy a city, and sometimes he'll save the day. He's like a force of nature.

AlexF

My experience reading Dredd as a child was pretty much always to treat him as a hero, and then when those stories popped up where he was proper evil (The Man Who Knew too Much, Letter to a Democrat, Oz - to an extent) it made me sit up and take notice and struggle with my emotions in ways that I think are a huge part of the lasting joy of reading Dredd. I still tend to enjoy the Dredd-as-uncomplicated-hero stories more, but I remember and even admire more the stories where he/the Justice System shit on people.

Dandontdare

Quote from: Funt Solo on 25 April, 2022, 10:55:41 PM
It depends on the story being told - as Dredd is not always the protagonist.

In The Apocalypse War, he's the hero.

I'd say Apocalypse War Dredd is one of the more ambiguous examples - he kills his own chief judge who was not in control of his actions, he kills numerous citizens either as a mercy or for collaboration and then he wipes out half a billion innocent civilians. Not really textbook heroism

Magnetica

What is he?

He Britain's greatest comic character- as determined by the Eagle awards.

He's Britain's answer to Batman.

He's 2000AD's most recognisable character. One that even non comic readers have heard of.

He's part of a canvass that allows many different stories to be told.

Is he a hero or a villain? Or an anti-hero? Or anti-villain (which is a new one on me)? Ermmm...dunno. He is all of those at different times.

(My son was surprised when I told him "Judge Dredd isn't a hero".)

Proudhuff

He's a warning not an aspiration.
DDT did a job on me

The Legendary Shark

[move]~~~^~~~~~~~[/move]




Funt Solo

Quote from: Dandontdare on 26 April, 2022, 10:12:50 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 25 April, 2022, 10:55:41 PM
It depends on the story being told - as Dredd is not always the protagonist.

In The Apocalypse War, he's the hero.

I'd say Apocalypse War Dredd is one of the more ambiguous examples - he kills his own chief judge who was not in control of his actions, he kills numerous citizens either as a mercy or for collaboration and then he wipes out half a billion innocent civilians. Not really textbook heroism

I entirely take your point. The counterpoint is that a lot of people consider Winston Churchill a heroic figure in British history (despite things like fire-bombing Dresden), because his enemy was Hitler. And so, as long as Kazan had worse motivations than Dredd, we can allow Dredd to be a hero while he does all the terrible things you mention.

It's a bit like this, I suppose:

++ A-Z ++  coma ++

broodblik

Hero or villain your choice you have the weekend
When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.

Old age is the Lord's way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death's in case we didn't take the hint.