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Spoilers => Prog => Topic started by: McNulty on 27 February, 2021, 03:40:06 PM

Title: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: McNulty on 27 February, 2021, 03:40:06 PM
As soon as this week's prog was opened this morning I instantly saw the reference to a much earlier cover by a great master 2000AD artist. PJ Holden even managed to incorporate Ezuerra's trademark broken black lines into this homage and I for one greatly appreciated seeing this again.

The Dredd story in itself sets out another adventure for everyone's favourite Chimp do-gooder who vows to give justice to one of his fallen. Surely it must be only a matter of time before there is a Chimpsky/Heston crossover story!

Slaine: Continues apace with an amazing final panel or explosive art.

Thistlebone: I'll be honest, the horror stories in 2000AD aren't really why I buy it, but I understand that this is an anthology and some people like to be creeped out.

Proteus Vex: An exposition heavy episode

Durham Red: This episode fundamentally changes Durham Red as a character for me. Before she was a character driven by a bloodlust but confined herself to sating that urge on the guilty. When she was young she fed on her parents with their permission, then on the homeless but not enough to kill them. After which she was recruited into the S/D agency by a veteran Stront. But now I learn that even with the opportunities this life gave her to keep her bloodlust in check, she would still resort to drinking from the innocent and worse than that she would murder them while doing this. This new character and the one I knew before this at at odds. In this week's episode she justifies her actions and blames it on the thirst. Sorry but I'm calling BS on that. In all her interactions while she was a Stront I didn't see any evidence of this at all. Outside of giving Ronald Reagan a bite, I've never seen this thirst drive her to the extent  that a feral beastial side would take over and she would murder without hesitation. Going forward I am going to be veiwing this character very differently.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Batman's Superior Cousin on 27 February, 2021, 04:06:44 PM
Spoilers for Dredd there NcNulty
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: broodblik on 27 February, 2021, 05:08:45 PM
Cover by PJ Holden:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvEMAvcXEAMt-TU?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: broodblik on 27 February, 2021, 05:09:15 PM
Cover and Logo:

(https://dyn.media.forbiddenplanet.com/4F_Gy8b66gEvMB-1VPshFC2R12Q=/trim/fit-in/779x1024/filters:format(webp)/https://media.forbiddenplanet.com/products/44/ff/275f6670c054e79db912621b7c45a630b835.jpg)
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: BPP on 27 February, 2021, 06:17:27 PM
That's a cracking cover. PJs in,ing really suits the Ezquerra black slug too. Excellent.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Colin YNWA on 27 February, 2021, 09:00:39 PM
Saturday Progs are really becoming a thing again. We're 3 out of 4 I believe. And another doozy.

The returning stories slip comfortably back into place after the Regened break, which is a sign of their quality, in the main anyway.

Dredd - kick off a new story and while its a spoiler, we are in a spoiler thread so the [spoiler]return of Chimpsky[/spoiler] in the final panel doesn't need spoiler tags. The build up to the reveal is wonderfully handles. The problem. Well the biggest problem is a combination of the 'blams' placed on the side of both Bike Cannons and the colouring used for the Lawmasters lights made me think that Dredd was firing from his bike's fire arms, which confused me until a quick check made clear what had happened... see that's the size of the problems. Its a fantastic opener.

Slaine - How is this going to wrap up and be a satisfying end to the series in a week... well after another OH NO SLAINE FACES UNBEATABLE ODDS - oh no he's fine as he's a cool fighter - moment the bigger question is can I bring myself to care?

Thistlebone from the moment I caught the eyes of the fox on the left of the first establishing panel we're in. The strip has already established the tone and atmosphere of the first series. It just gets better from there. Very happy this is back with such a strong opener.

Proteus Vex - the mystery reveal and still the tension raises at the end. Just fantastic stuff.

Durham Red - wow this thrill somehow finds a way to be the best thing in a fantastic Prog. A wonderful character piece making clear who Warren Hardladder the 'boss' from last time is and why he wants Durham Red. I suspect its not what you expect but man its a fantastic piece. Only after that dioes animal thrill burst into action. Just an exceptional episode.

4 out 5 Prog BUT when the 4 are this good its at least as good as many a 5 out of 5 Progs.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Link Prime on 01 March, 2021, 12:41:41 PM
Quote from: BPP on 27 February, 2021, 06:17:27 PM
That's a cracking cover.

It really is.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: IndigoPrime on 01 March, 2021, 01:40:16 PM
A great cover, with those lovely chunky black edges that I miss so much. I just read the Ezquerra Hachette book last night and, well, *sniffle*. As for the story itself, top stuff, as expected.

Elsewhere, Proteus Vex continues to mildly baffle and Durham Red is suitably grim and interesting—even if I agree this feels now like a different take on the character from the one in the Strontium Dog stories. That said, there were plenty of times where she was vicious, and who's to say those stories weren't somewhat 'sanitised' so we could keep the sexy Smurfette Stront? (Red now seems terrifying, which is more interesting.) Thistlebone is in set-up territory, but I did like the first series and so am glad to see it return.

Sláine exists. My problem with it now is it's just quite boring to read. It looks pretty, but for something with so much action, it's kind of a trudge. And it never feels like Sláine himself is threatened in the slightest. It's going to be a weird swansong if this is it. (Arguably, the strip could have finished on a high after Horned God, or after the surprising high of Book of Invasions 3 or The Wanderer.

So this one for me is Durham Red > Dredd > Thistlebone > Proteus Vex > Sláine.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Barrington Boots on 01 March, 2021, 03:04:43 PM
Monday is the new Saturday where the prog is concerned now.

Dredd - Great opener. I'm shocked Cookies didn't get killed before now, hearing about his MO.

Slaine - Not a lot to say on this that I haven't on previous weeks: looks immense but it's a turgid read from an inexplicable attack on universities to oh hey it's the Gae Bolga popping up again. There were a couple of episodes in the middle of this story where things slowed down a bit that i really enjoyed but since then it's been a bit nothingy. A shame really.

Thistlebone - It's a setup episode but how good is that double page spread. The fox on the first page is what sets the tone though, staring right out at the reader. Glad this is back.

Proteus Vex - This strip is so dense, I've enjoyed it a lot. Another setup episode but unlike Thistlebone this is moving pieces into position for a big reveal... and surely that giant space weeble is going to kick off.

Durham Red - I'm with McNulty in that this seems like a big fundamental change in Red's character. I'd assumed, when we started with tales of her atrocities, that we were looking at some unreliable narrator / twist to come, but if she is flipping out on occasion and randomly killing innocents Elric-style then it's a big jump, not only from depiction in earlier tales but also character-wise as it changes her from sympathetic badass to amoral murdering badass. I suspect we're going for the tragic angle here but wouldn't someone prone to murderous rampages who was full of regret not do stuff like, say, get a job as a security guard on a big spaceship full of people?
It sits ill with me, but this strip has not been predictable so far so we'll see what happens.

Second the comments on the cover and the Ezquerra homage - really cool stuff.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Richard on 01 March, 2021, 03:19:54 PM
I quite like psycho Red tormented by the guilt of her involuntary murders.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: broodblik on 01 March, 2021, 05:59:14 PM
So far Worley's version of Red is my favourite interpretation of her.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Tomwe on 02 March, 2021, 11:26:00 AM
Anyone else have the Wallace And Gromit theme going through their heads during the Resyk scene :D
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Wilko10 on 02 March, 2021, 06:42:39 PM
Dredd -- An effective start to a promising series. It was nicely paced with a reliance on dialogue, building anticipation for the following entries. Dare I say I was thinking of Watchmen with its 'murder mystery' tones. Absolutely exquisite colors from Quinton Winter and, as always, Niemand is proving time and again why he is rightfully a recurring writer in this world.

Slaine -- More of the same, I guess. Amazing art that feels as if it's compensating for the story's shortcomings. Can't say this is something that floats my boat so I'm glad it's finishing soon.

Thistlebone -- I felt this was a tightly written introduction regardless of previous continuity. Simon Davis' art is effortlessly complex. I wouldn't say it's one that lasted long in my memory, but I appreciate its effective writing.

Proteus Vex -- Nah. More exposition for a change.

Durham Red -- A very satisfying change of pace. Seeing Warren Hardladder (perhaps a touch ridiculous there) and Durham Red render themselves vulnerable was incredibly restraint for what has been an enthralling action comic.

Prog Rating -- 3/5
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: broodblik on 03 March, 2021, 03:23:26 AM
A good solid prog after the regen prog. 

Dredd - A solid kick-off to the new story arc. I like the away the story unfolds revealing on the last panel our favourite new citizen [spoiler]Chimpsky[/spoiler].

Slaine – Not sure how this will all warp up in one episode. This feels to me more like it was designed to be multiple books rather than one series. Art as always is fantastic script wise it is okey but not really grabbing me.

Thistlebone – The first episode is more off a setup but still keeps you engaged to want more. The last few pages keep the intrigued on high alert.

Vex – Great story great art. Over the last few episodes more and more has been revealed about the Flesh Pilots and Carroll continues the world building.  I have read that he has started on the third series.

Red – The story is hurtling to its conclusion and what a great ride this was. Red tells us more about he drive and the layers in her armament. This is not the same Red that started those many progs ago but a completely different "beast".
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: The Corinthian on 03 March, 2021, 10:58:49 AM
I'm not sure that Johnny Alpha would have had time for this version of Red.

Also, is the mercenary chief related to the bloke in the final panel of Strange & Darke?
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: TordelBack on 03 March, 2021, 11:16:27 AM
Great cover homage, was I alone in hoping it would be a wraparound?  But never mind that, I'd love to own the opening page of Dredd, it's just a perfectly designed piece of comics art. PJ's Dredd on this story is a wonderfully honed personal version: the supporting structure for the eagle pad, the seams on the gloves, the fasteners on the underside of the elbow pads, the crag-lines on that prodigious chin, the signature collar-shields. Even the way Dredd stands makes him completely distinct from Coley on wide shots.

Storywise, I found the last page reveal a bit disappointing: not that I don't like the character, I very much do, but I was already mentally into something new with the Do-Gooder League of Former-America and there was a sense of "oh,  it's this guy again", and the realisation that this isn't going to be a Dredd-centric procedural. Of course it makes perfect sense that he's part of this fraternity, and there's a pleasing Watchmen Chapter 1 vibe to the whole thing. Did I mention that it's very pretty?

Sláine is - if possible - even more gorgeous this week, and again dense and self-referential, but I admit to a sinking feeling that what reads like it's building up new themes and developing antagonists is just going to end, allegedly forever, next week. There's going out on a high, and then there's just stopping.

Thistlebone splurges two pages on a single image, but what an image! Pleased to see this back, and building naturally on the first, flashbacks, fox and all. If it has a flaw for me as a series it's that the default protagonist, who's name I can't recall just five minutes since I've read it so I think of her as Stressful Phonecall, is completely flat: I know she's not in any way the point of this story, but hopefully this series can give her some identity at the same time.

Proteus Vex continues to develop characters and setting in interesting ways, perhaps losing sight of some of the earlier weirdness, but very definitely holding my attention. A definite hit from all concerned.

Durham Red. There are so many versions of Red that we once got a whole anthology mini-series from Abnett exploring just that. I think this one has succeeded in being pretty interesting, the idea of Red having a self-image as a monster that does marginally more good than harm is (I think) a new one.

Good prog, that.












Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: broodblik on 03 March, 2021, 12:07:57 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 03 March, 2021, 11:16:27 AM
Great cover homage, was I alone in hoping it would be a wraparound? 

No you are not. It is always a welcome sign to have a wraparound cover
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Bolt-01 on 03 March, 2021, 12:47:36 PM
Zarjaz has a wraparound EVERY issue!

(http://www.futurequake.co.uk/imagebucket/CoverWebbies/Cover-Z39-Web-S.jpg)
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 03 March, 2021, 04:03:41 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 03 March, 2021, 11:16:27 AM

Sláine is - if possible - even more gorgeous this week, and again dense and self-referential, but I admit to a sinking feeling that what reads like it's building up new themes and developing antagonists is just going to end, allegedly forever, next week. There's going out on a high, and then there's just stopping.

Are we absolutely sure that Slaine ends next week? I know Pat is done with 2000AD for now, but does that mean next week is the last, or just the end of Book One? Could he conceivably have meant he's written the whole of this saga and won't be doing any more after that?

SBT
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Max Headroom on 03 March, 2021, 08:27:32 PM
I hope that SmallBlueThing is right and there is more to this 'Web of Weird' saga. I know latter-day Slaine is not highly regarded on this forum, but I personally would like more.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: TordelBack on 03 March, 2021, 09:45:29 PM
I respect Pat's position and decision, but as a fan I still hope some form of agreement could be reached. Against my expectations, Brutannia and it's effective continuation in Dragontamer have shown me there's life in the old murder-hippie yet.

As much as anything, it would be a crime against comics not to let Manco have a longer tenure when he was clearly born to draw this strip.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: TordelBack on 03 March, 2021, 09:48:20 PM
If I ever find out who decided that  predictive text should change all my "its" to "it's" then eyes without life, sundered heads, these will indeed be pleasing words to me.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: broodblik on 04 March, 2021, 03:27:41 AM
Quote from: TordelBack on 03 March, 2021, 09:45:29 PM
As much as anything, it would be a crime against comics not to let Manco have a longer tenure when he was clearly born to draw this strip.

I would definitely like to see more Manco doing Slaine. The current arc feels very much like Brutannia in pacing where we had a 4 books which could have been done in 2. Brutannia reads much better collected than it read in its tenure in the prog. Would be nice of a gentlemen's agreement can be reached and Slaine and Savage closed off properly.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: broodblik on 04 March, 2021, 09:04:17 AM
More about PJ Holden's great cover homage to the great man himself Carlos:

https://2000ad.com/news/2000-ad-covers-uncovered-pj-holdens-carlos-cookie-cover-homage-for-2000-ad-prog-2221/ (https://2000ad.com/news/2000-ad-covers-uncovered-pj-holdens-carlos-cookie-cover-homage-for-2000-ad-prog-2221/)

(https://2000ad.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/ezquerra-dredd-2-Copy.jpg)
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Link Prime on 04 March, 2021, 09:25:08 AM
Quote from: broodblik on 04 March, 2021, 03:27:41 AM
Quote from: TordelBack on 03 March, 2021, 09:45:29 PM
As much as anything, it would be a crime against comics not to let Manco have a longer tenure when he was clearly born to draw this strip.

I would definitely like to see more Manco doing Slaine. The current arc feels very much like Brutannia in pacing where we had a 4 books which could have been done in 2. Brutannia reads much better collected than it read in its tenure in the prog. Would be nice of a gentlemen's agreement can be reached and Slaine and Savage closed off properly.

ABC Warriors too.

As for Manco - A decorated career as cover artist of the year is surely a potential destiny.
He's the first new omega level artist to grace the Prog in a long time.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: IndigoPrime on 04 March, 2021, 09:35:59 AM
Given that ABC Warriors has been ret-cons and recycling for years, god knows how it'd be closed off. Would they need to "get the gang back together" for the sixth time first? Savage: yes. A pity that won't conclude, although I imagine the long-term aim would be to have it link with a more mature take on Ro-Busters and that reality. Mills has also woven a far more complex web than initially, so it's hard to know how many books it'd need to reach a conclusion without that feeling faked and rushed. More than one, I imagine.

Sláine: I just can't bring myself to care anymore. Brutannia for me, bar book one, read badly in whatever format. It was a tedious slog. Sláine always used to have fun with its language, but it also used to have intrigue and excitement. For years now, it's almost been a parody of itself, albeit with beautiful art.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: IndigoPrime on 04 March, 2021, 09:39:16 AM
Quote from: broodblik on 04 March, 2021, 09:04:17 AMMore about PJ Holden's great cover homage to the great man himself Carlos:
Nice also to see Ezquerra Block over on the left and the neon sausage sign. Top work, PJ Holden!
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Link Prime on 04 March, 2021, 09:54:37 AM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 04 March, 2021, 09:35:59 AM
Given that ABC Warriors has been ret-cons and recycling for years, god knows how it'd be closed off.

It'd be a big job alright.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: broodblik on 04 March, 2021, 10:13:12 AM
Quote from: Link Prime on 04 March, 2021, 09:54:37 AM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 04 March, 2021, 09:35:59 AM
Given that ABC Warriors has been ret-cons and recycling for years, god knows how it'd be closed off.

It'd be a big job alright.

ABC Warriors I am not sure if I would care if its back or not, I would rather have more Defoe
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Barrington Boots on 04 March, 2021, 10:15:13 AM
Quote from: Link Prime on 04 March, 2021, 09:54:37 AM
It'd be a big job alright.

LEAVE IT TO MEK-QUAKE!
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: TordelBack on 04 March, 2021, 10:19:47 AM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 04 March, 2021, 09:35:59 AM
Would they need to "get the gang back together" for the sixth time first?

I think you're missing a decimal point there.

It's personal taste of course, but I thought all but perhaps the most recent run of 'current' ABC Warriors were great fun. 

And while I'm a Sláine obsessive, I had lost all hope during the post-Books of Invasion Langley years.  SBD's Brutannia was a breath of fresh air, and while as others have noted on this thread it ultimately seemed like one interminable dialogue-heavy fight scene in the progs, the gorgeous collected volumes give it brisk life as a coherent, exquisitely painted story that chronicles a key turn in Sláine's life. The bizarre Archon lettering choices hamstring it a bit, but for my money it's a great read.

Dragontamer delights me, because it's a seamless development from that run with completely different but equally extraordinary look. I'm not really one for hyper-realistic fully-filled art, the scratchier or more abstracted the better for me, but this is just superb: novel-design horrors abound, fleshy characters appear to twist through volumes of space on the page, the heaped bodies of fighters seem to intertwine like zoomorphic interlace, hard surfaces glitter and dark skies loom. It has all the weight that Angie Mills borrowed from Gal et al, the colourful solidity of Power and Staples, Fabry and Bellardinelli's attention to the details of the objects that fill this world, the physicality of combat of McMahon and Pugh, and some of the Frazetta sensibility that Bisley started out with, married to Manco's own feel for realistic light and form. The same feeling of the artisitic heritage of the strip drawing together pervades the script.  IT'S GREAT.

Phew.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: broodblik on 04 March, 2021, 10:31:13 AM
Manco for me is doing all the heavy lifting the script is riding an the wave of the stunning visuals. I am at this stage bamboozled that Slaine is not my favourite thing in the prog. I am a great fan of the stories and I want to like it and it is almost that I lost interest. Hopefully next week we are amazed by the awesome ending.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: IndigoPrime on 04 March, 2021, 10:48:56 AM
Quote from: broodblik on 04 March, 2021, 10:31:13 AMHopefully next week we are amazed by the awesome ending.
"End of book one."
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: The Corinthian on 04 March, 2021, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 04 March, 2021, 10:48:56 AM
"End of book one."
Book two begins with four episode recap of book one.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: The Corinthian on 04 March, 2021, 11:25:38 AM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 04 March, 2021, 09:35:59 AM
Given that ABC Warriors has been ret-cons and recycling for years, god knows how it'd be closed off.
I got the impression at one point that everything in this and Savage was barrelling towards a definitive conclusion revolving around Howard Quartz getting his comeuppance.

That was over four years ago.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: norton canes on 04 March, 2021, 11:38:58 AM
After completely failing to spot the 'Orinoco' joke on the last Niemand Dredd cover I feel like I'm already about to fall into the same trap again, but... is there some kind of pun hiding in "Baked and offed"?

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 27 February, 2021, 09:00:39 PM
Well the biggest problem is a combination of the 'blams' placed on the side of both Bike Cannons and the colouring used for the Lawmasters lights made me think that Dredd was firing from his bike's fire arms

Excellent observation skills there cadet, reckon there's more to this murder than a simple drive-by, but you better have some watertight evidence if you're implicating a senior judge.

Nice that the whole of the setup is contained in the first three pages of the story and for the last three practically nothing happens, but does so delightfully, giving PJ a chance to shine with his little cartoon bodies and hero costume designs.

If there's one problem with that utterly amazing double-page Thistlebone spread it's that it's not in the centre pages and I can't open the thing properly nice and flat. Still, it's something else, especially since I find the tangled roots of upended trees really creepy even when they're not cradling skeletons.

More painstakingly narrated melee in Slaine. To keep everyone happy, I wonder if Pat Mills could be persuaded to write a one-off five-pager that winds up the stories of every title character in his unfinished strips? Slaine, Defoe, Bill Savage and the ABC Warriors, all meeting up for a final blast of mayhem before disappearing into the dark fundament (so to speak).

Perfectly happy with the changes to Durham Red's character - I think it's the sort of thing you have to expect when a new writer takes ownership and wants to stamp their own mark. Or to flip the idea, I'd certainly be hugely surprised (and more than likely a little disappointed) if a character who first appeared 34 years ago was still being written exactly the same way. Anyway the acid test is, is the current way working? And for me the answer is a resounding 'yes'.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 04 March, 2021, 11:41:28 AM
The closest I got with "Baked and offed" was the obvious "Bake Off"/ biscuits/ tv show/ murdered tenuous linky.

SBT
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: TordelBack on 04 March, 2021, 11:53:19 AM
Quote from: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 04 March, 2021, 11:41:28 AM
The closest I got with "Baked and offed" was the obvious "Bake Off"/ biscuits/ tv show/ murdered tenuous linky.

My reading too. While I'm there, I might throw in my general dislike of the tagline font, since I seem to be otherwise overflowing with positivity and praise this morning.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: norton canes on 04 March, 2021, 12:42:14 PM
Quote from: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 04 March, 2021, 11:41:28 AM
The closest I got with "Baked and offed" was the obvious "Bake Off"/ biscuits/ tv show/ murdered tenuous linky

Oh yeah. That'll be it. Another blindingly obvious one flies right over my head... 
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: sintec on 04 March, 2021, 01:14:33 PM
It's great to get back to our 3 continuing tales back having skipped a week for the Regened. Proteus hints at some big reveals for the finale, it's great stuff and will be a must buy for me if/when we get a collected trade. Slaine continues to deliver jaw dropping art not sure I'm that engaged with the plot, not sure that entirely matters when the art is this good. And Durham Red continues to deliver twists and turns as we find out whos hunting Red and why.  It's all great stuff.

Of the two new stories it's Thistlebone I'm most excited about. Loved the first series and will be grabbing the collection next month when it hits the webstore. This episode is a strong start and I'm looking forwards to seeing where it goes, Simon's art is magnificent (as ever). The Dredd is an ok setup but for whatever reason it's just not exciting me. Maybe the next episode will change my mind. Think I'm a little burnt out on wacky citizens plots there seems to have been quite a lot fo that kind of thing recently.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Tiplodocus on 04 March, 2021, 10:55:15 PM
Quote from: Bolt-01 on 03 March, 2021, 12:47:36 PM
Zarjaz has a wraparound EVERY issue!

(http://www.futurequake.co.uk/imagebucket/CoverWebbies/Cover-Z39-Web-S.jpg)

Whoooooore!
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Mardroid on 05 March, 2021, 02:43:16 AM
Quote from: Richard on 01 March, 2021, 03:19:54 PM
I quite like psycho Red tormented by the guilt of her involuntary murders.

Me too. Rather than considering her as amoral, I'd say she is both more moral, and at the same time, more dangerous than she has been before.  With early Red, under Wagner, Ezquerra and Grant, I got the impression she was a bit of a rascal who kind of revelled a bit in what she was, although there was a bit of tragedy even then. And I didn't get the impression she was particularly dangerous to innocents... although she could be if she starved.

There were other stories later where we saw more of her backstory that we saw more of the tragic side to her, but now she seems to be way on the other side of the spectrum.

Now it seems she really has been a danger to innocents, but I don't think it was ever a random murder spree. I think these situations are still very much in the minority, but fact is, sometimes she gets caught short, so to speak, and if she is in a starved state, she will reach a stage where the thirst takes over and she has no control of herself. But she is also shows more guilt and remorse for her actions than before.

I'm not sure she was so much blaming the thirst as stating a fact.  At the start of the story she was literally out in the desert tracking someone, and hadn't fed in days. I'm not sure how she ended up starving on a cruise ship. You'd have thought she would have made preparations before taking the security job, but we just don't know the full story there.

I don't see this so much as a contradiction to what happened before as more of an exploration of how her condition responds in extreme circumstances.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Sean SD on 05 March, 2021, 08:00:36 AM
Solid prog this one, tough to pick a top 3 anyhow here is:

My Top 3 for Prog 2221 :)

1st - Thistlebone - edges into first place.  Very good start episode for Book 2.
2nd - Dredd - A certain simian is back  :thumbsup: Nice work on last page PJ
3rd - Proteus Vex - very busy story wise but tension is building up nicely between Vex and his superiors
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: TordelBack on 05 March, 2021, 08:43:30 AM
Quote from: Mardroid on 05 March, 2021, 02:43:16 AM
I don't see this so much as a contradiction to what happened before as more of an exploration of how her condition responds in extreme circumstances.

Good analysis, Mardroid.  Ultimately Red has been depicted in so many different ways (Wagner, Grant, Hogan, Abnett, now Worley) that judgment in any new incarnation really has to be based on how entertaining it is, and how internally consistent it is within that version. Worley is a writer who has really grown into his craft over the past few years and I'd rather see him (and Willsher) develop the character in the way that interests him, rather than being tied to 'treacherous vamp with a heart', 'eternal mutant messiah' or worse, 'generic action babe no. 37'.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: CalHab on 05 March, 2021, 08:54:53 AM
Quote from: norton canes on 04 March, 2021, 12:42:14 PM
Quote from: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 04 March, 2021, 11:41:28 AM
The closest I got with "Baked and offed" was the obvious "Bake Off"/ biscuits/ tv show/ murdered tenuous linky

Oh yeah. That'll be it. Another blindingly obvious one flies right over my head...

It's not just you. I was scratching my head as well.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Barrington Boots on 05 March, 2021, 10:33:18 AM
Quote from: Mardroid on 05 March, 2021, 02:43:16 AM
I don't see this so much as a contradiction to what happened before as more of an exploration of how her condition responds in extreme circumstances.

Yes, really good post this Mardroid. My initial comment on the review was a bit of a blanket 'well, I don't like this' but totally agree that this isn't a seismic shift, although I think it is a pretty significant one. She's always been portrayed as dangerous character - in the early Stront stuff everyone was terrified of her - and her doing this kind of stuff isn't that much of a stretch.
What was jarring for me was that if she was prone to doing stuff like this and felt bad about it afterwards then it's not like she couldn't take steps to stop it happening or putting herself in a situation where she wouldn't be having a murder spree.

I'm not sold on it, but I'm really into this Worley / Willsher version of the character and this story has wrong-footed me a few times already, so I'm not writing it off and very interested to see what happens next.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: IndigoPrime on 05 March, 2021, 11:10:04 AM
To some degree, it's the first time for me that Red has felt like a threat—to the world in general and her own wellbeing. There were hints of this before, but it's far more overt now. It's also good to see a version of Red where she's not running around in her pants or wearing an outfit with a tiresome "everything on display" get-up that, for some reason, only she did in the main S/D universe. (I love Ezquerra art, but imagine Alpha dressed in a similar manner for bounty hunting and you'd be a bit hmmmm.)
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Barrington Boots on 05 March, 2021, 11:14:32 AM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 05 March, 2021, 11:10:04 AM
It's also good to see a version of Red where she's not running around in her pants.... imagine Alpha dressed in a similar manner for bounty hunting and you'd be a bit hmmmm.)

Next sketch comp right there.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: IndigoPrime on 05 March, 2021, 11:31:17 AM
Five minutes in Photoshop and, well, yikes.

(http://snubcommunications.com/forums/alpha-red.jpg)
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: sintec on 05 March, 2021, 11:32:38 AM
Johnny "Zardoz" Alpha
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Barrington Boots on 05 March, 2021, 11:40:38 AM
Be still my beating heartses
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Barrington Boots on 05 March, 2021, 02:54:56 PM
My wife says this is the best Johnny Alpha and complimented his lovely thighs.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Darren Stephens on 05 March, 2021, 06:52:27 PM
Great cover, really like the dressed version too. That chunky pixel style typeface works really well.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: TordelBack on 05 March, 2021, 07:56:58 PM
Quote from: Darren Stephens on 05 March, 2021, 06:52:27 PM
That chunky pixel style typeface works really well.

Not for me, I'm afraid. I like '80s computer magazine/game logos as much as the next ageing squaxx, but I had to wonder: why here? It doesn't relate to the rest of the cover dress, the laboured tagline pun or the story itself. Am I being characteristically dim and literal?  Is it because the cover is a homage to one from 1983?
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: scrotnig on 06 March, 2021, 12:24:48 AM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 05 March, 2021, 11:31:17 AM
Five minutes in Photoshop and, well, yikes.
That's traumatic.

My recovery has started, it may take some time but I will get there.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: BPP on 06 March, 2021, 12:41:53 PM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 05 March, 2021, 11:31:17 AM
Five minutes in Photoshop and, well, yikes.

(http://snubcommunications.com/forums/alpha-red.jpg)

If that what it takes to get Red back to how Carlos drew her then I'm all in.
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: Darren Stephens on 06 March, 2021, 11:21:52 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 05 March, 2021, 07:56:58 PM
Quote from: Darren Stephens on 05 March, 2021, 06:52:27 PM
That chunky pixel style typeface works really well.

Not for me, I'm afraid. I like '80s computer magazine/game logos as much as the next ageing squaxx, but I had to wonder: why here? It doesn't relate to the rest of the cover dress, the laboured tagline pun or the story itself. Am I being characteristically dim and literal?  Is it because the cover is a homage to one from 1983?


I took it as being deliberately retro, yeh. Maybe? ;-)
Title: Re: Prog 2221 - Taking the Biscuit!
Post by: DrJomster on 08 May, 2021, 01:54:55 PM
Playing catch up on the prog.... blimey, this was a good one! Great work all round, I have to say.

The old adage of "a good Dredd puts you on a good footing for a good prog" remains very true. Great story and absolutely gorgeous art from PJ.