The Political Thread

[Frank]

it is sad that everyone who voted remain cannot accept the decision of the majority

I agree we have to follow the rules of the referendum, but describing that result as the decision of the majority requires mental and linguistic gymnastics.

46 million Britons registered to vote in 2016; 17 million of them voted to leave the EU - that's 37%.

63% of the electorate didn't vote to leave the EU. Almost three quarters of the UK population didn't vote to leave the EU.

The rules are definitely the rules, but the result of the referendum does not reflect the will of the majority of British people. It's not even the will of the majority of voters.

[IndigoPrime]

More to the point, it's an absolute fucking disgrace that many of those who this would most impact were frozen out of the voting (in addition to those the Tories unwisely disenfranchised months before). It might have been palatable to mix-and-match GE and EU election rules, but to only allow those a say who could vote in a GE was disgusting, especially given the subsequent "EU people are now bargaining chips" stance of May.

Basically, if you're not middle-class or above, wealthy and white (oh, and don't have 'an accent' of any kind, as friends are discovering), you are now royally fucked. When Canadians, Swedes and Spaniards are getting abuse for talking on the phone, you know we're beyond the pale.

on a final note it is sad that everyone who voted remain cannot accept the decision of the majority with good grace

Fuck that. Seriously. I'm now in the position where the PM-in-waiting is saying my own wife is a bargaining chip so the UK can secure more from the EU. Beyond that, Poles have been beaten unconscious in the street, the economy is taking a whack, the UK is the laughing stock of the world and seen as being intolerant and backwards (bar by right-wingers like Le Pen), and we're only a week in. When Article 50 is triggered, that's when the real nightmare begins. And all for what, exactly? No-one on the Leave side seems to know any more.

but instead  start hurling insults towards anyone who chose to leave.painting them as the fourth reich .

With the sole exception of this place, I've not yet seen a Leave voter able to get through a conversation with me without resorting to insults, outright threats, or strange patronising responses (the last of those being leftie Brexit voters). I don't think Leave voters realise just how angry Remainers are at the result. Our economy has tanked. We are seen as racist throwbacks. Our science and film industries are already imploding. Our banking sector is fucked (which makes some lefties go HURRAH—wait until they realise how that impacts on tax receipts and public spending). There's now less money rather than more. The Tories are about to install the most vicious and right-wing leader to date. The Labour Party is in disarray. And if we're very, very, very lucky, the EU might grant us a relatively rapid trading deal within a decade that will be worse than the deal we had already.

What bright future? This is a total bloody disaster with no upside. People bought into lies, which unravelled on the very day of the vote, and most of them don't care. I'm angry at the 52%. I'm angry at two decades and more of reprehensible government policy that brought us here. I'm angry at the media for keeping the anti-EU fires stoked for no reason other than to sell newspapers, thereby making it so people didn't understand what the EU did and does. I'm angry at every British kid's future now being limited to the UK rather than the EU. I'm angry for all the people who have lost jobs and opportunities, both abroad and in the UK. So no good graces.

[Trent]

Indigo - well said. I have met Leavers who put a reasoned non-racist argument but clearly it was the bigots who carried the day.
From a purely selfish perspective part of me wants to see the Leave voters come to realise just what they have done. I've got advanced cancer, packed in work and have moved up to the Lake District to live so I don't think I'll be too affected.
That said, I have a 17 year old son so damn you all to hell on his behalf!
No good graces- agreed.

[Grugz]

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/29/uh-oh-what-on-earth-is-happening-at-the-large-hadron-collider-5974846/


careful what you wish for...

[Hawkmumbler]

My problem with the "Not all Leave voters where racist" argument is, at this point it doesn't matter. All Leave voters ENABLED the members within the movement to elevate Farage to the position he desired, to inflict as much damage as he could.

[Trent]

That's a tricky line Hawk. I think people were entitled to vote either way from genuine conviction. The fact that it has empowered the racist element and that this was totally predictable......yeah okay point taken.

[TordelBack]

Grud, Gove really is a dead ringer for Dr Scrotumski. Johnson knifing a speciality.

He genuinely does look like he's cosplaying a human. And not even a very nice human.

[ZenArcade]

To be fair there were ample warnings given in explicit terms. Brexit will lead to economic decline; factionalism amongs us and a rise in racism, it pains me to say it but the point is made .  It is hard but here we are dealing with the aftermath. Z

[IndigoPrime]

I've got advanced cancer

Oh man. Sorry to hear that.

It is hard but here we are dealing with the aftermath.

What concerns me is we've only now seen the aftermath of the vote. We haven't yet seen the aftermath of triggering A50, a rampantly right-wing Tory government (whether May or Gove wins), and the response from Leavers when they realise they've been well and truly screwed over.

[ZenArcade]

Trent, my wishes and care go out to you.  IP,  what can I say. It won't get too much better (probably much worse)  anytime soon. I am at a loss at what to say. In relation to what I wish I would do: Get my small part of this country as far the fuck away from this poison as is ever possible.. Z

[Grugz]

yep trent, all the best to you, being a cancer a survivor  is hard enough as it is so cannot imagine what you and your family are going through.,sorry for missing that in your post.


  as for all this "brouhaha" no one can accurately predict what is going to happen or, the recent reccessions the 70's and the 80's crash wouldn't have happened so I am just going to sit back (in my shelter) and wait to see what happens,if we end up in the dark ages or under the swastika i'm grown up enough to admit I made a mistake provided I haven't had to sell my computer or am eating my neighbours...ttfn!

[IndigoPrime]

No-one can predict the future for sure, but we know about averages and likelihoods. The UK's not done a major trade deal alone since the 1970s. It hasn't the expertise. It hasn't the numbers. On that basis alone, we are on the back foot, but post-Brexit a whole ton of deals are dead (beyond just the EU one). And with even Labour now arguing freedom of movement is dead, Brits will very quickly find themselves with fewer opportunities than ever, which I find a crying shame, not just for my generation (doddering into our 40s) but also for the kids and teens who'll now be far more restricted than before.

Like I said, I just don't get it. All of the promises evaporated. We're getting basically nothing positive out of this, even from a Leave perspective.

[Grugz]

I was just reading something  that apparently it might not happen anyway as apparently, article  50 cant be invoked unless the majority of politicians agree (?)
https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/uk/why-brexit-might-not-happen-after-all/ found the link..

[Steve Green]

Straw clutching.

[ZenArcade]

Pay through your nose (30k) for a university degree; go into a job market where you'll be challenged to say the least; no step on to the housing ladder and if you throw your arms up, no free movement to go somewhere else in ther hope of making a life. God help you if you're Young. Z