Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?

[Tjm86]

... and on the subject of the media and its apparent inability to get to grips with this, Rhianna Pratchett does not appear to have much positive to say about the BBC's 'adaptation' of The Watch.

Having read some of the ideas that the creative team seem to have thrown together for this it really does feel like someone just doesn't understand Pratchett's point.  I mean let's face it, he was ripping the shit out of a lot of these issues for years with those books.  Then you read what is being done with the characters ...

[von Boom]

... and on the subject of the media and its apparent inability to get to grips with this, Rhianna Pratchett does not appear to have much positive to say about the BBC's 'adaptation' of The Watch.

Having read some of the ideas that the creative team seem to have thrown together for this it really does feel like someone just doesn't understand Pratchett's point.  I mean let's face it, he was ripping the shit out of a lot of these issues for years with those books.  Then you read what is being done with the characters ...

You can see for yourself.

https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=34708.msg1041269#msg1041269

[ChickenStu]

If somebody criticises something for not having diversity I'm immediately suspicious of the person and find myself questioning WHY they are actually doing it. Do they really believe what they are saying? Or are they just trying to virtue signal themselves? It's a totally double edged sword and it really gets my spider sense tingling.

if anything I've just said is seen as controversial - I need to explain something...

I'm a Gen Xer. I was anti racist, anti sexist and anti homophobic long before "woke" and "diversity" became bywords in our popular culture. I've stood up for my beliefs in the past. I've put my money where my mouth is even risking my own safety to do so.

So when someone criticises a movie trailer or something for not having enough "diversity" in it... I feel like asking them if they ever nearly got their head kicked in for sticking up for a black friend in the roughest pub in town.

I bet I know what the answer is. It's easy to put the world to rights from behind a computer screen.

[Funt Solo]

There is a lack of diversity in terms of female representation in movies. That's just true. Now do I have to go and fight someone in a pub to make it more true?

[Professor Bear]

I suspect the root of Rhianna Pratchett's issues with the adaptation is that they've made a very big deal of saying they were "adding" diversity to Pterry's work, which is at the very least a bit of an insult to his memory, never mind a gross misunderstanding of a series of social commentaries masquerading as fantasy novels.  What did they think Monstrous Regiment was about?
Also, the producers cast a six foot actor in the role of a dwarf, so you must forgive me if I don't find their commitment to "diversity" particularly convincing.

[Mardroid]

I suspect the root of Rhianna Pratchett's issues with the adaptation is that they've made a very big deal of saying they were "adding" diversity to Pterry's work, which is at the very least a bit of an insult to his memory, never mind a gross misunderstanding of a series of social commentaries masquerading as fantasy novels.  What did they think Monstrous Regiment was about?
Also, the producers cast a six foot actor in the role of a dwarf, so you must forgive me if I don't find their commitment to "diversity" particularly convincing.

Are you referring to Carrot? In Pratchett's novels he is a human who was adopted by dwarves.He's a tall lad, so the casting would match the described character in this instance.. (If you were joking ignore this.)

Not that I'm disagreeing with rest of your comment concerning diversity.

[shaolin_monkey]

No, the dwarf that tries to be more female. Can't remember her name. Cheery Littlebottom maybe? There's an allusion to that in the trailer - someone not dwarf sized trying to look more female. It didn't occur to me that that might be Cheery until now though.

Cheery?

[TordelBack]

As the diversity in the Watch books was of the more metaphorical kind (e.g. Angua), I don't see a problem with bolstering that with modern casting choices when you have to put it into a commercial visual medium. Where I would have a problem is where the characters are completely at odds with their essential natures (e.g. Cheery being non-binary instead of a female dwarf 'coming out' as female: not really the same thing. Create a new non-binary character, by all means).  Not having paid a lot of attention to the production gossip, the kerayzzy Sam Vimes in the trailer is an abomination unto Nuggan.

[ChickenStu]

There is a lack of diversity in terms of female representation in movies. That's just true. Now do I have to go and fight someone in a pub to make it more true?

See? Rather than thinking about what I'm actually trying to say... you immediately go on the attack. Why does it have to be an argument? Why is my take on things less important than yours - and why do you feel you have to respond with aggression?

No - you don't have to fight someone in a pub. I didn't. I just stood inbetween my friend and a drunk racist idiot who picked on him for no reason other than what he looked like.

But I'll ask you a question - if that's really how you feel about female representation... what are YOU going to do to change it? What have you DONE, what are you DOING and what are you GOING to do?

[shaolin_monkey]

the kerayzzy Sam Vimes in the trailer is an abomination unto Nuggan.

Aye. I never pictured Vimes channeling Jack Sparrow, that's for bloody sure.

[Funt Solo]

There is a lack of diversity in terms of female representation in movies. That's just true. Now do I have to go and fight someone in a pub to make it more true?

See? Rather than thinking about what I'm actually trying to say... you immediately go on the attack. Why does it have to be an argument? Why is my take on things less important than yours - and why do you feel you have to respond with aggression?

No - you don't have to fight someone in a pub. I didn't. I just stood inbetween my friend and a drunk racist idiot who picked on him for no reason other than what he looked like.

But I'll ask you a question - if that's really how you feel about female representation... what are YOU going to do to change it? What have you DONE, what are you DOING and what are you GOING to do?

Everyone loves lists, so:

1. You first said that anyone who supports diversity is a fake, unless they can prove otherwise through some evidence of direct action. I asked if that was really necessary. That seems fair to me.

2. You said "virtue signaling" was bad, then went on to tell an expansive story in which you were the hero. Kindly: irony.

3. You say I'm aggressive but then I'd counter that you started with the name calling in your first post, and in your second you started SHOUTING at me.

4. It's okay to have a point of view without being held to account over the level of direct action you've either taken previously or plan to take in the future. It's okay to have a point of view without taking any other action than expressing it. Expressing it is an action.

5. You have no idea what level of activism or otherwise I've partaken of in my life, but you're happy to pre-judge me - which was your original point. You love to pre-judge people who support diversity. Big whoop.

[ChickenStu]

There is a lack of diversity in terms of female representation in movies. That's just true. Now do I have to go and fight someone in a pub to make it more true?

See? Rather than thinking about what I'm actually trying to say... you immediately go on the attack. Why does it have to be an argument? Why is my take on things less important than yours - and why do you feel you have to respond with aggression?

No - you don't have to fight someone in a pub. I didn't. I just stood inbetween my friend and a drunk racist idiot who picked on him for no reason other than what he looked like.

But I'll ask you a question - if that's really how you feel about female representation... what are YOU going to do to change it? What have you DONE, what are you DOING and what are you GOING to do?

Everyone loves lists, so:

1. You first said that anyone who supports diversity is a fake, unless they can prove otherwise through some evidence of direct action. I asked if that was really necessary. That seems fair to me.

2. You said "virtue signaling" was bad, then went on to tell an expansive story in which you were the hero. Kindly: irony.

3. You say I'm aggressive but then I'd counter that you started with the name calling in your first post, and in your second you started SHOUTING at me.

4. It's okay to have a point of view without being held to account over the level of direct action you've either taken previously or plan to take in the future. It's okay to have a point of view without taking any other action than expressing it. Expressing it is an action.

5. You have no idea what level of activism or otherwise I've partaken of in my life, but you're happy to pre-judge me - which was your original point. You love to pre-judge people who support diversity. Big whoop.

1. I didn't say EVERYBODY who promotes diversity is a fake. But with anything there are fakes Do I really need to tell you this? I can tell you're not daft. You must have seen this somewhere.

2. Erm... err.... look just shut up OK?!?!?  J/K. OK fair play - you tore that one apart, but again it's about the point.

3. Didn't mean to call names and didn't mean to shout. Apologies if it came across that way.

4. Of course - but where is the right place to do so? Expressing something is great and all but actions speak louder than words in this life and sadly most people use the internet for expression. And that's great and all but the more it expands the more of an echo chamber it becomes.

5. Dude. Like I said, I didn't pre-judge anybody. Looking at a person's motives isn't pre-judging. It's being cautious and a stitch in time saves lives. And I didn't want to have a dig you in general I was just trying to expand on an point you raised. Too many people in this world (and I don't mean you or anyone else in particular) love to point out what the problems are - but they can't provide the answers.

I promise I'm a nice guy man. Sorry if I seemed like a dick. I just get frustrated with things sometimes because we as a species seem to like overcomplicating simple issues and behaving contrary to amicable intentions.

[Funt Solo]

It's true that it's easier to get into a fight on the Internet than in real life because judging meaning and intention is incredibly difficult when we only have the text sitting in front of us. (And because some people get twattish when they're anonymous, of course.)

And there are issues with echo-chambers. Basically, I agree with everything you just said.

I'd stand with you against that racist twat.*


*Because I'm amazing!

[ChickenStu]

I'd stand with you against that racist twat.*


*Because I'm amazing!

Ugh... he was such a prick. Was having such a lovely night out until he piped up. 

[shaolin_monkey]

Reminds me of when my partner got accused of ruining a wedding 'cos the brides father said something like "I'm not racist but..." followed by something pretty offensive, which she called him out for on the spot. We all know racists don't like being called racists, so he stormed off to his room to have a sulk in the middle of the reception.

He refused to come out of his room until Bekhy apologised for calling him out as a racist. So the bride basically said to Bekhy "please will you apologise to my father just so we can get him out of the room?"

She responded "You want me to apologise to your father because he was being racist and doesn't like people pointing it out to him? No, I'm not apologising for that. Tell him to come to me and apologise for the incredibly offensive comment he made. If he wants to hide in his room that's nothing to do with me, that's his choice."

Bless her, that story always makes me smile.