The Political Thread

[M.I.K.]

I wouldn't base my opinions about him on The Mrs Merton Show, which was basically Caroline Ahern playing an old lady in front of a partisan audience with the express purpose of making her "guests" look like idiots.

The audience was always made up of people of a certain age, a few of which, on that occasion also seemed to be fans of Bernard Manning.

The comment he made was in response to a question by an audience member who'd previously been given a lift in a car from Bernard. Nobody was trying to make him look like an idiot at the time and when fellow guest, Richard Wilson said "But I thought you weren't racist Bernard?", it only got worse from there on in.

http://youtu.be/dL13o8UCMyU?t=27s

I think I saw that Channel 4 programme at the time. It had loads of folk saying 'it was only an act' and 'it's not what he actually thinks' and maybe that's also true of the clip I've posted the link to, but if that's an act, it's an unfunny one that makes him look like a total prick who means every word, and he's got no one to blame but himself for being demonised.

[Richmond Clements]

Saying he was playing with notions of racism makes him sound like the Stewart Lee of his day.
He was not, he was a nasty, vile racist. The Mrs Merton interview did not set him up, it revealed hi for the utter shit he was.

[ZenArcade]

Forgive me for stating, who really cares, he's dead and whatever influence he had is buried with him. It's the living that mainly concern me, and there's a lot of nasty sh*ts out there now.

[Jim_Campbell]

Forgive me for stating, who really cares, he's dead and whatever influence he had is buried with him. It's the living that mainly concern me, and there's a lot of nasty sh*ts out there now.

There was a poll done this week that showed a third of people in the UK openly admitted to racial prejudice and much hand-wringing ensued about how it could be that the population had become more racist. They haven't, but the ones who are have become more emboldened by the current political climate and feel less embarrassed to admit that they're racists.

As such, attempts to rehabilitate the likes of Manning and Davidson feed into that culture and should be actively and vigorously resisted.

Jim

[ZenArcade]

Fair point, but the mind staggers at how a repulsive prick like Jim Davidson could ever, ever be rehabilitated.

[CrazyFoxMachine]

We live in an age where Jim Davidson wins a celebrity popularity contest and a far-right party wins the nation's hearts...



welcome to the END TIMES

[ZenArcade]

I've just attended as a delegate at a 3 day Trade Union conference in Newcastle County Down (what a beautiful place). I can tell you after what I've heard from colleague's from all over NI: fellow workers, bombed; shots fired; subjected to threats to kill from both republican (the scum wouldn't know the meaning of the word) and loyalist  terrorist organisations; subjected to physical assaults; oceans of verbal abuse etc, boy do we have our work cut out for us, still....onwards and upwards. Z 

[Professor Bear]

I don't mind Jim Davidson because he's only an arsehole and for years he managed to rein in his bullshit and be a family entertainer - if you're a sexist racist jerk at heart, I don't think we can really ask more of you than that you keep such things to yourself when out in public, and Davidson has at least mastered that skill.

While Bernard was technically correct in his assertion that the Pakistani military could not have participated in the liberation of Europe from the Nazis as Pakistan didn't exist as a nation until several years after the war, I think where he went wrong was phrasing it "there weren't any Pakis at Arnhem."
Michael Barrymore has a valid case for being misrepresented by the media, but I don't think Manning does.  I can accept that he might not have been a racist in life, but he went out of his way to cultivate that image and no-one held a gun to his head and forced him to use words like "Paki" or to say he wouldn't give black people a lift in his car.

[Theblazeuk]

I quite liked his Turkey Drummers though

[The Legendary Shark]

Well, if my only choices are between being disingenuous or delusional then I'll settle for delusional because I'm basing my opinion on personal experience which is, of course, subjective.
.
I think the likes of Frankie Boyle and Jimmy Carr work with material every bit as offensive and uncomfortable (and funny). And no, not everyone will get out of Manning's act what I got but then, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.
.

[Frank]

While Bernard was technically correct in his assertion that the Pakistani military could not have participated in the liberation of Europe from the Nazis as Pakistan didn't exist as a nation until several years after the war, I think where he went wrong was phrasing it "there weren't any Pakis at Arnhem."

Maybe not at that particular battle, but millions of citizens of what then was still India fought and died for His Majesty in both world wars, just the same as Australians, Canadians, or subjects from any of the British Empire's other colonies. Stupid cunt.

I can accept that he might not have been a racist in life, but he went out of his way to cultivate that image and no-one held a gun to his head and forced him to use words like "Paki" or to say he wouldn't give black people a lift in his car

Probably. His act pandered to the inherent prejudices of his particular audience, in the same way and for the same reason that the default political outlook articulated by any UK comedian who wants to make money and get on telly is broadly left wing.

[The Legendary Shark]

Just an observation, but if one wished to point out the stupidities of racism, which audience would you choose - those who already know that or those who do not? It's not my intention to canonise Manning but neither will I damn him - for to do so would make me a hypocrite.  I have told my fair share of Englishman, Irishman, Scotsman jokes in my time but that doesn't mean those jokes come from a place of hatred. Ignorance, maybe, but not hatred - and some of those jokes were very, very funny which, in the final analysis, is what jokes are for.

[Eric Plumrose]

Be as that maybe true, Shark, d'you think it's something the majority of Manning fans would have recognized and appreciated?

I've seen several interviews with Manning that do nothing to give the impression his intent was to undermine or deflate racism and any attempt to suggest otherwise seems either delusional or disingenuous to me.

Jim

The only time I saw Manning defend his act was (I think) on THIS MORNING. However, instead of explaining how his routine was, in fact, a misunderstood metatheorem using racist language recursively to deconstruct racism itself he wheezed an anecdote about some black couple sitting in the front row and how they laughed it up so, no, his act wasn't offensive.

[Eric Plumrose]

Just an observation, but if one wished to point out the stupidities of racism, which audience would you choose - those who already know that or those who do not?

The latter, of course. Because racists are well-known for going out of their way to be enlightened.

[JayzusB.Christ]

"Rich white trillionaires to concentration camps" was irony to demonstrate the foolishness of hating people you've never met.

Fair enough.

But as for Bernard Manning being some kind of ironic satirist of the intolerant... well, of course you're entitled to your opinion, but I just don't see it, I'm afraid.  I believe Viz is the true master of satirising the intolerant, and here is its epitaph for Bernard:

(NSFW and in very bad taste)

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r153/brnwlsh/bernardmanningplate.jpg